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The Case Against Net Neutrality

jeek writes "While I certainly don't agree with it, this article tries to make the case that Net Neutrality may actually be bad for America. From the article: 'If the government regulates net neutrality, policies for internet access are set by one entity: the FCC. However, if the government stays out, each company will set its own policies. If you don’t like the FCC’s policies, you are stuck with them unless you leave the United States. If you don’t like your internet service provider’s policies, you can simply switch to another one. So which model sounds better to you?'"

46 of 702 comments (clear)

  1. Choices by space_jake · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What other service provider?

    1. Re:Choices by bsDaemon · · Score: 4, Funny

      The ones in another city or state... which is apparently less of a hassle than leaving the US entirely.

    2. Re:Choices by kage.j · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unless you're surrounded by a monopoly, or other 'choices' that are vastly substandard. Such as 56k or very-slow adsl, versus high-speed, low-latency cable. 'Choices' -- I'd have to move to get another choice. Hogwash to that point, I say.

      --
      he demonstrated by A plus B minus C divided by Z that the sheep must be red, and die of the rot
    3. Re:Choices by butterflysrage · · Score: 4, Insightful

      you mean like $30 a month with a $10 "connection fee", $5 "wire rental fee" and a $20 "because we say so fee".... or the other guy who is $65 all included?

      --
      the preceding post was not spell checked... suck it.
    4. Re:Choices by spikenerd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What other service provider?

      This is the very heart of the whole issue. NN is on the table simply because competition in the ISP business is dead. So why not solve the problem directly by breaking up ISPs that have market dominance in particular regions? Because there's no way our gov't would ever pull that off? Okay, I guess we need NN then.

    5. Re:Choices by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, that's a great mass of choices! Too bad a T1 costs a fortune by the time the same monopoly that gave you crappy Internet service adds their loop charge. Must be nice to fart $100 bills!

    6. Re:Choices by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nonsense! I have plenty of choices. I can choose to let AT&T fuck me, or I can let Comcast fuck me.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    7. Re:Choices by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So if there are few choices for many now, we fix this by eliminating what choices that do exist?

      No, the point is that many of us have *no* choice right now. They use the ISP available to them, or they don't get Internet access.

      So the question is, who do you feel is more likely to treat you fairly: a profit-driven organization with absolutely no accountability to anyone, the the same profit-driven organization with *some* rules of fair dealing enforced by a democratically elected government?

    8. Re:Choices by plover · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So the question is, who do you feel is more likely to treat you fairly: a profit-driven organization with absolutely no accountability to anyone, the the same profit-driven organization with *some* rules of fair dealing enforced by a democratically elected government?

      Theoretically, there's room for both within a single provider. If consumer demand were loud enough, BigNet might offer their $80 "neutral package" as opposed to their $50 "FAPped package". The offering of an extra choice could even be mandated by Congress.

      But to get to your real question, I have to say that our democratically elected government has a piss-poor record when it comes to passing rules. Once they feel they have the right to pass a single restriction, the floodgates will open for all kinds of bad restrictions: no packets that don't identify the originator, no packets that don't pass unencrypted through a government router, no packets that contain foul language, no packets critical of the demopublican party, no packets that contain atheist sentiments, etc.

      I know people claim the "slippery slope" argument is a fallacy, but Capital Hill has an endless supply of lube, no direction to go but down, and have demonstrated a continual, unrelenting desire to pass bad laws. Everything I've seen them do gets worse.

      So all in all, I'd rather pay a company to protect my network access. At least if they violate our contract, I can sue them.

      --
      John
    9. Re:Choices by jd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Even if there was competition in each region, the removal of source-based routing means that you can't dictate which path the packet goes down, which means you can't control how much it is going to cost. The notion of peer-to-peer agreements is going to be shot all to hell without NN, so you WILL end up footing the bill according to the choices made by routers not under your control. Oh, and remember, any router that calculates the weight of a path according to what it is told is very likely to be told that extremely expensive paths have low weight. Again, not under your control, you can do bugger all about it. Since costs are likely to migrate straight to customers, intermediate network providers won't give a damn. They don't have to pay for any inefficiencies caused elsewhere, and since all customer-level ISPs will likely use one of a tiny handful (or a single) intermediate provider, it doesn't matter what ISP you use or which city/State you are in (so long as you're in a State that has that intermediate provider).

      This is one of the bigger problems caused by the threat of abolishing NN. Especially in this day and age. Remember that guy a few years back who mapped out the cable routes using public info and had his thesis classified? If you cannot legally know who connects to what, where, and how at the level 1 and level 2 tiers, you are denied access to ANY information which could reveal which ISPs are likely to cost what amount for the work you intend to do over the Internet. The only way to perform the necessary market research is, in effect, to be a criminal. Not just any old criminal, Gitmo-level criminal.

      Is this over-worrying? Not really. There was once a service that did not have NN. It was called the IPSS (International Packet Switch Stream) service. Do you know, even remotely, how expensive that was? $25k per year even for relatively low-volume use was not unusual. Anyone here want to spend that on Internet connectivity?

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    10. Re:Choices by ffreeloader · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ahh.... So, because the government doesn't act in our favor in one instance we need to give it more power? I have to ask, since the government doesn't act in our favor with the power it already has, what makes you think it is going to act in our favor when we give it even more power? How is more power going to make the government more sensitive to the little guy? I see no correlation between increased government power and more freedom for the individual. In fact, the opposite is true. The more power government has the less freedom the individual has. That correlation is seen in all governments.

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    11. Re:Choices by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Reminds me of the saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

      If this was really true, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because no one would've bothered to fix their slide-rule which "wasn't broke", and then their calculator, and then their Apple IIe -- the Internet wouldn't exist at all.

      Remind me again why we need something to fix a potential problem, when we could just wait until it actually becomes a problem?

      ...and here comes the contradiction...

      I realize Comcast is crap,

      You don't see that as a problem?

      the FCC isn't going to fix that.

      Comcast has already throttled and otherwise abused the bandwidth of their users. They have done exactly the kind of bullshit that net neutrality legislation is meant to prevent.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    12. Re:Choices by deapbluesea · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But we have to pass the bill before we can know what's in it.....

      --
      Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
    13. Re:Choices by s73v3r · · Score: 4, Informative

      Congratulations. You are an anomaly. The vast majority of people have access to only one or two ISPs. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/03/national-broadband-plan-arrives-quoting-shakespeare.ars

    14. Re:Choices by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But to get to your real question, I have to say that our democratically elected government has a piss-poor record when it comes to passing rules.

      Citation needed.

      If you're going to go the "slippery slope" route, then you have to provide some good arguments and evidence that the slope is indeed slippery. If the government wanted to filter all "packets critical of the demopublican party", how much closer does net neutrality bring them to that? What barrier to filtering does a non-neutral net offer that a neutral net doesn't?

      See, because I could see an argument that net neutrality potentially makes is *harder* for the government to filter things. If Verizon is allowed to filter things however they want, then the US government just needs to put pressure on Verizon to filter "packets critical of the demopublican party". However, if you insist that material isn't allowed to be filtered based on content and source, it makes it much harder to hide any nefarious filters.

      But ultimately, as things are today, I trust our Federal government to not-censor my speech against the government much more than I trust Verizon to not-censor my speech against Verizon. Verizon has no court system, no jury of my peers. Saying, "At least if they violate our contract, I can sue them." indicates that you, too, trust the government to decide matters justly.

    15. Re:Choices by Thangodin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As noted, most people don't have a choice of what internet provider is offered. But beyond that, do a tracert on traffic to another part of the country. See that? That's Ma Bell for most of the links. So your local provider is largely irrelevant.

      Business is good for goods and services that you can opt out of. Those you can't (like the internet these days) are called infrastructure, and giving business control over infrastructure is a golden invitation to rent-seeking behaviour, because something you can't opt out of is called a monopoly--particularly when the trunk lines are owned by the people who got there first.

      Legislative capture (special interest control of government) is a problem in its own right, and will become a more pressing problem now that the Supreme Court has given corporations the right to buy politicians as they see fit. If the Tea Party would address that issue, I'd sign up. But they won't, because they are a wholly owned subsidiary of Murdoch's News Corp., the goal of which is, you guessed it, legislative capture. In fact, he's built a whole enterprise on it. Want to drum up support for legislative protection of your obsolete business model? Rupert is your man, if you can afford him! So much for small government.

    16. Re:Choices by Klinky · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So you think that if you agree when you sign up that you won't use more than a certain amount of bandwidth, and you end up using more than that, Comcast should just have to suck it up? I'm glad I'm not doing business with you.

      Uhh, no. He's talking about how they discriminated against bittorrent traffic, all the while saying they weren't doing anything. Legal, illegal, grey area torrent traffic was affected. Didn't matter. Basically it showcased that Comcast was willing to affect specific services on their network. What's to stop them from throttling hulu, youtube, comedy central, all the while prioritizing Comcast.net?

      Comcast doesn't want video on the internet to succeed and would rather have you subscribe to their video service instead of entertaining the notion that they might turn into a dumb pipe someday.

      I feel that, media production/distribution & data distribution should all be broken up to avoid conflict of interest and content/data monopoly. My grand dream is that your ISP provides a dumb connection to a gateway of your choice. They are not allowed to sell anything other than a dumb IP connection. If they want to sell VOIP or IPTV with that, then they will have to spin-off to another company. If they want to own content production companies(e.g. NBC studios) that too will need to be spun off into a separate entity who sells to the IPTV providers, which is accessed over the IP connection. Also there would be requirements for open access, so they can't horde or prevent a competitor from gaining access to content or distributing service over the connection.

      Communication/media companies are already too large & they strongly lean towards regional monopolies. Ultimately capitalism has that fatal flaw where striving for ever greater profits / "efficiencies", usually results in companies merging and merging and merging & when they can't merge they collude with each other to shutout competition. Capitalism is almost an oxymoron because while it espouses free market ideals, it's inhabitants usually are actively pursuing the opposite of a free market.

      There needs to be regulations & rules setup to maintain the market. We can't just set a basic framework and expect everyone to play by those rules forever, or for those rules to still even be valid decade after decade.

      The goal of society & government is to benefit the people, not large mega telecommunications companies.

    17. Re:Choices by Guido+del+Confuso · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The goal of society & government is to benefit the people, not large mega telecommunications companies.

      The great populist lie. Who do you think runs the "large mega telecommunications companies"? I'm pretty sure they're run by people, not autonomous robots or computer programs. So let's restate what you're saying a bit more accurately: The goal of society and government is to benefit certain people to the detriment of other people, based on who is part of the largest group and hence has the most votes.

      Your vision of the role of government sounds like mob rule to me.

    18. Re:Choices by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The goal of society and government is to benefit certain people to the detriment of other people, based on who is part of the largest group and hence has the most votes.

      That's a cynical analysis, not a goal. Let's try again:

      The goal of government and society is to benefit most people most of the time, to the detriment of the few individuals who violate the social contract -- in this case, those who have enriched themselves massively at the expense of everyone else, using ethics which are questionable at best.

      Who do you think runs the "large mega telecommunications companies"?

      If you're referring to all the employees, certainly, we should benefit them. As it is, government and society tends to benefit the board of directors and a few top executives, to the detriment of everyone else.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  2. Switch to another one...? by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 4, Informative

    Wasn't the main problem that there are still few ISP choices in a lot of places? At least, based on numerous anecdotes I hear.

    1. Re:Switch to another one...? by nine-times · · Score: 5, Informative

      I live in NYC and ultimately I have 4 options:

      1) Time Warner Cable
      2) dialup
      3) cell phone data plans (expensive, slow, and capped)
      4) don't use the Internet

      That's in one of the biggest/densest cities in the world.

  3. Personally? by spicate · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I like the government model better, since there isn't really much competition and there probably won't be, given the cost of infrastructure.

    1. Re:Personally? by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Meat inspections? Waging war on a grand scale? Roads?

      Government isn't a good solution to many problems, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good solution to some problems. A wise society has government as one of the tools in its toolbox, but doesn't try to pound in nails with a wrench either.

    2. Re:Personally? by tilandal · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Last time I went to the DMV I walked in, picked up a number, waited about 5 mins, talked to a teller and was out the door all on my lunch break.

      Last time I tried to buy high speed internet it took 2 hours on the phone, 3 customer service reps, and 2 canceled installer appointments (I got the self install kit) to get my cable modem registered. After all of that they didn't even remember to bill me for it. When they did remember to bill me for it several months later they sent some installers to put filters on the line. They didn't do it right and disconnected me instead. They sent another 2 installers over to fix it but those two forgot to put the filters on the line so it was all for nothing anyway.

  4. It's America. by lymond01 · · Score: 5, Funny

    If you don't like the FCC regulations, write your congressperson, get them changed.

    1. Re:It's America. by Meshach · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you don't like the FCC regulations, write your congressperson, get them changed.

      You must be new here...

      --
      "Maybe this world is another planet's hell"
      Aldous Huxley
  5. beware of idealists by Tom · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you don't like your internet service provider's policies, you can simply switch to another one.

    Assuming, of course, you actually do have a choice, the market works, the providers do not collude on anything and the big players don't dictate de factor policies.

    Or, in other words: In the ideal dreamworld of the free market fanatics, there's always this "competition" solution that solves every problem and gives the best answer to every question. In the real world, things are quite a bit more complicated.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:beware of idealists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or, in other words: In the ideal dreamworld of the free market fanatics, there's always this "competition" solution that solves every problem and gives the best answer to every question. In the real world, things are quite a bit more complicated.

      That's due to a misapplication of free market. The free market theory assumes an equilibrium in which demand and supply meet. Equilibrium dynamics only hold for large values of entities. Therefore, the free market theory completely breaks down in situations where small numbers of suppliers or customers exist. That's certainly the situation we have in the US with very few telecom options.

      For that reason, it's completely inappropriate to believe that the free market will solve *this* problem, even if one believes (as I do) that a truly free market generally works best where it exists. For this commodity, there simply isn't a free market.

  6. Announcing the all new Quad DSL and Cable Modem by Brit_in_the_USA · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Aggregates your two DSL ISPs and 2 cable modem ISPs so you can get to youtube , hulu, netflix AND facebook through one easy Ethernet connection! Eliminate that pesky unplugging and cable mess!

  7. Transparency not Neutrality... by nweaver · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What is needed is network transparency, not necessarily network neutrality.

    EG, under some definitions of network neutrality, various useful traffic shaping (such as placing heavy users in a different QOS tier when compared with light users, implementing per-user fairness, or doing Remote Active Queue Management to mitigate the effect of overbuffered access devices), would not be allowed.

    Yet such shaping would generally benefit all users: it prevents heavy users from impacting light users (in the first two cases) and even reduces heavy users self-inflicted damage (in the latter case). But the same devices which could implement such beneficial shaping could also perform amazingly anticompetitive traffic manipulation, such as disrupting a user's VoIP calls.

    Thus what we need is network transparency: ISPs must disclose what their policies are: how they shape and manipulate traffic in ways that may benefit or may damage users. And we need active verification of such policies, because although most ISPs will be honest, some won't be.

    --
    Test your net with Netalyzr
    1. Re:Transparency not Neutrality... by spiegel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      because although most ISPs will be honest, some won't be.

      Where have you been for the past 10 years? Most ISPs (read: Telcos & Cablecos) have long demonstrated their inability to be honest.

      And while transparency is certainly important, its only the first step. What the most NN people want is transparency + nondiscrimination based on traffic source. If you have no or few alternatives for internet access, it does very little good knowing that your ISP is screwing you.

    2. Re:Transparency not Neutrality... by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Thus what we need is network transparency: ISPs must disclose what their policies are: how they shape and manipulate traffic in ways that may benefit or may damage users. And we need active verification of such policies, because although most ISPs will be honest, some won't be.

      I have one choice for highspeed internet.
      Transparency will not help me if my ISP decides to implement shitty policies.
      All things being equal, government regulation is less of a burden to me and millions of other Americans than boxing up our lives and moving.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    3. Re:Transparency not Neutrality... by nweaver · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Where have you been for the past 10 years? Most ISPs (read: Telcos & Cablecos) have long demonstrated their inability to be honest.

      Where have I been? In the trenches.

      I was one of the researchers behind the web tripwires project for detecting ISP injected advertisements. I was one of the developers of the RST injection detector that was used to monitor how ISPs were disrupting traffic with injected Resets. And I'm one of the developers of Netalyzr.

      And overall, most ISPs are actually honest, and even the dishonest ones have gotten a fair bit better.

      EG, Comcast was incredibly dishonest at the start on their BitTorrent shaping (denying what they were doing altogether), but in the end were honest about it once they got caught (it did indeed only affect upload-only BitTorrent flows, we were able to independently verify this), and has become much more transparent about their traffic shaping and port filtering policies since then (they even have done IETF drafts on how their traffic management is done today).

      And this is why I believe that thing that really makes a difference is being able to validate that what an ISP says is actually true: If ISPs know that manipulations will be detected, they have a much lower incentive to manipulate traffic. This is why I believe in network transparency.

      You notice how you don't have ISPs talking about doing advertisement injection. Why? because its detectable. You notice how most ISPs no longer mess with BitTorrent? Why: because its detectable.

      This is the biggest benefit of transparency and enforcing transparency by measuring for violations: it keeps honest ISPs honest, and punishes the dishonest when (not if, but when) you catch them.

      --
      Test your net with Netalyzr
    4. Re:Transparency not Neutrality... by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      under some definitions of network neutrality, various useful traffic shaping

      QoS falls under no one's definition of network neutrality. Those who conflate QoS with network neutrality are engaging in FUD. They are deliberately confusing the nomenclature in order to scare people away from true network neutrality.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  8. Funny by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you don’t like your internet service provider’s policies, you can simply switch to another one.

    Hahahahaha! That's a good one. And here I thought I was already tolerating ISP abuse, crappy upload speeds, poorly maintained infrastructure, and false service tech. arrival times because I just felt it was the right thing to do. Now that I know I have a choice to work with an ISP that will treat me with respect and dignity well, gosh darn, I'll just hop on over this month.

    Oh wait.

    I don't know if this article was written by someone in another country or what, but like most of our shitty national industries (cell phones, auto insurance, medical services, political parties, etc.) we in the U.S. don't have any choice in what services are provided to us by our ISP. We might have the illusion of choice in one area or another, depending on how badly your local branch wants to maintain reputation, but real choice? Nah, this is the freedom lovin' US of A. We don't do that sort of thing here.

  9. Which one indeed by EdIII · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So which model sounds better to you?

    How about the model in which it is illegal for a company to both own the pipes and have any interests in the IP that may be flowing through it? The model in which their would be huge fines (more than what they actually earned to make it an actual penalty) when it is shown that they had any deals to profit on the IP flowing through them?

    Cuz, I don't know... maybe the worst possibility is one in which the vastly huge amount of choices I have in ISP providers will limit, or aggressively manage, the content I can access because it conflicts with their goal to monetize their own copyright catalogues?

    1. Re:Which one indeed by Rich0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yup - the vertical integration is what is killing us.

      How about this - split the pipes from the traffic entirely.

      The telco provides a cable that routes ethernet packets from your house to a central office. Full stop. They can sell by the byte - just like your water bill. They are PUC regulated - costs plus minor profit - just like the water company. If the uplink is dedicated (no shared wires between the home and the CO), then they couldn't meter use at all - only charge to rent/maintain the line (and that is based on technology - no implementing intentional bottlenecks to abuse billing).

      Once the packets get to the central office they can go to any number of ISPs, and the telco isn't allowed to own any of them, or invest in any of them. The telco charges by the rack and kWh to have space in that office - full stop. You pick your ISP, who provides traffic to the internet, email, etc. Since ISPs don't own the last mile, I'd expect there to be a fair amount of competition. Oh, and if you want you can be your own ISP if you put a router in that CO and pay for the power and uplink (probably not a practical solution for small customers, but companies could do this).

      The last mile is the natural monopoly, so the goal should be to make the last mile boring. Last mile providers should get nice steady incomes, and little company growth. Your water company doesn't need to grow (unless you build more homes) - it needs to keep your water going. Utilities get steady almost-guaranteed rates of return, in exchange for heavy regulation and PUC-set prices.

      This really isn't a complicated model - we've been doing it for a century.

      This way the "internet" itself can stay nice and unregulated, like the free-marketers want. Once you get past the CO ISPs are no longer a natural monoply, and barriers to entry are much lower. Your town could run a co-op if they wanted. ISPs like AOL could flourish next to ISPs that provide nothing more than IP carriage (no email, no web, no support, no home router, etc). Some ISPs would throttle connections, some would not but charge by the byte. You can buy whatever you want that way.

  10. Free-Market Mad-Libs by Glires · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hmmm... this line of thought sounds familiar for some reason.

    If the government regulates [mortgages], policies for [mortgages] are set by one entity: the [FTC]. However, if the government stays out, each company will set its own policies. If you don't like the [FTC]'s policies, you are stuck with them unless you leave the United States. If you don't like your [mortgage banker]'s policies, you can simply switch to another one. So which model sounds better to you?

    --
    -Glires
  11. Net neutrality extends further than your ISP by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1) Net neutrality extends further than your ISP. You only have "control" over who provides you the last leg.
    2) Control in #1 is quoted, because you may only have one viable option. Lucky if you have two. Very lucky if you have more than 2.
    3) Most smaller DSL providers, fixed wireless, etc are backended onto one of the few major telcos. They are often at the mercy of these back end providers, and in turn the end user has no control either.

    Regulatory oversight is needed when an industry is a monopoly or oligopoly (few participants, high barriers to entry, etc). Telecom is such an industry. The FCC may not be perfect, but it is necessary.

  12. Unfettered free market = Jesus by dryo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    OK, I doubt that many slashdotters, who are typically Libertarian-leaning, will be able to hear what I'm saying. But here is is anyway: free-market fundamentalism is foolish and greedy. It's what got us into trouble with the current economic meltdown. Repeating the mantra "the free market will solve everything" is really very similar to belief in the second coming of Jesus, fairies, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Sadly, we cannot trust government to do the right thing (whatever that is), but neither can we trust the free market. And by "free market," I mean obnoxiously large and powerful corporations. I would rather take my chances with the government; at least there's a tiny bit of accountability there. They've done some good things in the past, such as abolishing slavery and setting minimum wages. Without government intervention, the sacred "free market" would still use the blood of slaves to oil the engines of industry. Now it's just overseas wage slavery, which is something of an improvement, I guess.

  13. Same old argument by fermion · · Score: 5, Interesting
    This is the same old anti-regulation argument, and for some things I agree. If one is talking about the price of widgets, the only rule should be that the free market must be free to operate, that is competing businesses can't collude to set prices. The Nixon price fixing scheme does not work. The rules against collusion simply set up a even playing field that enhance the free market, by setting an initial state from which to compete. Things like the minimim wage and the forty hour work week, extremely ill thought liberal plots that codify the disastrous theory that we have to pay people just because they have done some work, are beneficial as they set limits which helps a business compete on more useful things, like innovative product and process rather than simply trying to minimize cost of labor.

    So what does this mean to net neutrality. Net neutrality is a basic rules, like not colluding, or the work week, or code of building, that will drive innovation. Without such a rule companies will compete on which data is delivered quickly, instead of the speed of quantity data delivered. Collusion will be the norm as companies form ties to deliver certain data quickly, while making competing data not quick. As most of us only have one ISP, particularly for the last mile, and often without choice, we will be forced accept service not on the quality of content but on the availability of delivery(And before people take this to anti-iPhone rant, everyone has access to a competing company and a competing smarter phone).

    With net neutrality, companies will be forced to invest in innovation, which is of course why many do not want net neutrality. No one wants the government to force them to spend money on innovation. Can you imagine the uproar when building codes required indoor plumbing? Sure it makes sense where it is cold, but down south it is a waste of money! But the fact is with net neutrality companies are going to learn to make efficient use of available bandwidth so that all content can be delivered quickly, not just the content the ISP chooses. It will be create real jobs, with people installing fiber, people looking at the data, and engineers developing solutions, instead of simply provided money so that top executives can buy dates.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  14. Yes, regulation is bad by JSBiff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I mean, really, why should there be laws against fraud? I mean, someone rips you off, you just go do business with someone else (who also rips you off, because it's legal). False advertising? I mean, if companies use false advertising, it'll catch up to them and you'll do business with someone else. Your roof caves in on your family's heads because the contractor cut corners on material or workmanship, and didn't build the supporting structures right? Do business with a different contractor next time. Airlines don't maintain their planes right, and kill or disable passengers? Well, people will just do business with other airlines, right?

    Maybe your employer should be free to expose you to hazardous materials or unsafe working conditions? I mean, you can always quit and go work for someone else, right?

    I'm sorry, but there's some business practices which businesses should never be free to do. I'm sure there is room for disagreement on whether Net non-neutrality rises to that standard, but my point is, just saying that people can take their business elsewhere is A) not always true - as others have mentioned, in some localities, there is basically a monopoly on broadband Internet, and B) dodges the issue of whether anybody should ever be allowed to implement such network management policies, to begin with.

    Net non-neutrality will, over time, seriously degrade what the Internet is for many customers. It will lead to a lot of anti-competitive behaviors wherein ISPs disadvantage some content providers over other content providers (or their own in-house content). It will do so in such a way that customers will have *no idea* that their ISP is to blame (in some cases), and will wrongly blame the content provider, or in some other cases (prohibitively small/overpriced bandwidth caps, for example, where it would be more expensive to upgrade to a useful 'tier' of bandwidth allotment so they could use Netflix, Hulu, or something similar to get TV programming and movies, instead of subscribing/upgrading to the ISPs own cable-TV packages for the same or similar content), the customers might know the ISP is to blame, but not have much or any recourse to correct the problem.

  15. Netheads versus Bellheads by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let the phone and cable companies decide who goes on the network, and they'll get as close as they can to a walled garden full of their business partners.

    Let the net remain an open playing field, and you get true competition.

    Maintaining competition in the marketplace is an accepted function of government.

    Over the last couple of decades, the Nethead way has brought us Google. The Bellhead way has brought us ringtones. You decide.

  16. Re:You'd get two choices: Devil and Deep Blue Sea by Angst+Badger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Unregulated markets tend to function more like a cartel than a true open market. Limiting choices and competition instead of enhancing it.

    And that, ultimately, is the fly in every variety of libertarian laissez faire capitalist ointment: wealth is a competitive advantage. Even allowing for a certain fraction of businesses that fail due to bad decisions, success builds on success until there are only a few players left. Then the rational decision for those players is to simply divide up the market and fix prices rather than compete, and cooperate to ensure that the barriers to entry are too high for any new competition to arise. Nor does it get any better if those few players actually compete with each other, as the end product is inevitably a single victor, i.e., a monopoly.

    Capitalism just isn't self-sustaining. It's great while it's racing toward equilibrium, but once it gets there, it's like any other system that's reached equilibrium: incapable of doing any good. For capitalism to work -- as with perpetual motion machines -- there has to be an occasional input of energy from the outside. In the case of capitalism, that's trust-busting and various less dramatic forms of regulation. Without that, you have an ever-shrinking number of companies leveraging their ever-increasing power to charge more and more for less and less. It's not that the market is a bad thing or that capitalism is unworkable, it's just that it's not a magical cornucopia. Like every other vast human endeavor, it needs to be properly managed, and just as there is such a thing as too much management, there is also such a thing as too little.

    --
    Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
  17. Perfect by dcollins · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What's that quote from Chomsky?

    They want the people to hate and fear the government, because democratic government has a dangerous flaw -- it actually has the slight chance of becoming truly democratic. You see, corporations are perfect -- perfect tyrannies.

    http://www.ebook3000.com/politics/Noam-Chomsky---Class-War---Audiobook_49792.html

    --
    We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
  18. The FCC isn't setting limits on us. by blair1q · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The FCC isn't setting limits on us (at least not for bandwidth and price).

    It's setting limits on companies that want to set limits on us, in an industry where those companies get their main resource - right of way on public infrastructure like power poles, digging up streets, easements through people's property, etc. - from us essentially for free.

    Breaking net neutrality creates a public internet that will get the short end of every resource stick, and a non-public internet that will get full value from any limited public resources used to deliver the signal.

    We're giving up our resources to them and getting essentially nothing in return unless we pay a premium price for it.