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Vodafone Backs Down In Row With Android Users

jhernik writes with this excerpt from eWEEK Europe: "Vodafone has backed down in the face of angry opposition from Google Android customers, who last week received a software update thinking it contained Android 2.2, but instead found it contained Vodafone's branded 360 service. The Vodafone 360 service was launched in October last year. Essentially, Vodafone 360 is a user interface that puts social networking on the front screen of the phone, and arranges the users' contacts so you can reach any person with a phone call, IM, text or other call — or send a location message to meet up. However it also installs irremovable Vodafone-branded apps and bookmarks, including links to dating sites."

33 of 106 comments (clear)

  1. Dating Sites preinstllaed on the phone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...lead to more usage of data sites with the SO picks it up and goes "Honey, why is Match.com on your phone?"

    Whoever thought of this was a total idiot.

    1. Re:Dating Sites preinstllaed on the phone... by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 4, Funny

      2 marketing executives are sitting in an office :

      ME1: So I guess this Android thing is getting popular with the geek demographic.
      ME2: Can can make some money off of that ? We need an angle.
      ME1: Dude, these guys look like couldn't get laid in a monkey whorehouse carrying a bag of bananas.
      ME2: Get me match.com

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
  2. Hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yet another company that should pay me to be their CEO of common sense.

    Most companys need someone like that to help them NOT do things that piss off all their customers. Yet no company has one it seems.

    1. Re:Hmmm... by hedwards · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Indeed, for a short while I had a Motorola backflip. I liked the hardware in general, although the battery was a bit on the weak side, but the deal breaker was all those damned AT&T apps that came installed. Not only were they installed, but you couldn't remove them without doing some serious hackery to the phone. They wasted space and resources on the device and seemed to suck up RAM permanently. I had similar issues with my Sony vaio. That was one of the worst QA fails I can remember in quite a while, as soon as that laptop booted up for the first time it was immediately running extremely slowly because PC-cillin was taking up 99% of the processing time and it was installed by default with no way to avoid doing so until after you managed to bring up the task manager.

      It should be common sense, really, that not loading your device up with crap would be the way to keep customers, but businesses don't care enough and in the US the government doesn't force them to care either. Sure you'd spend more money and devices tend to in areas with more active regulators, but it's ultimately cheaper than having to replace a device that doesn't work because of crapware.

    2. Re:Hmmm... by mark72005 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I made the same mistake. My contract was up at a time when AT&T had just gotten their first Android phone - sign me up.

      It had the same thing as this Vodaphone garbage, "Motoblur", a bloatware suite that is essentially just a package of widgets and apps that you can't uninstall and which deliver social networking content straight to the handset without having to use those well-designed specialty apps.

      Eventually I got sick of that phone's random reboots, slowness, and other software issues. I've never hated a phone so much I bought a new one outright but... Yuck.

    3. Re:Hmmm... by rawler · · Score: 2, Informative

      Rory Sutherland touched this subject earlier of Ted. The 12-minute talk is here; http://www.ted.com/talks/rory_sutherland_sweat_the_small_stuff.html

      Many nice observations there, but instead of ruining it for everybody by trying to rephrase them, just spend 2 minutes and watch the beginning. You'll likely watch the rest too. ;)

  3. Backs down = by buchner.johannes · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just in case you're wondering like me how they back down ...
    FTFA:

    Following the complaints, Vodafone backed down and said it would now offer an update without the Vodafone-branded applications.

    “Instead, in future we will offer customers two updates. The first will be a rollout of vanilla Android 2.2, once we have carried out appropriate testing to make sure it doesn’t cause any problems on our network or handsets.”

    --
    NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    1. Re:Backs down = by Teun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or you could get a non-proprietary like the Nokia n900.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    2. Re:Backs down = by Briareos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or you could get a non-proprietary like any Android phone NOT sold by the carrier directly.

      At least that's how it works here in Europe; dunno if the US has caught up with the times yet - do you still have no SIM cards?

      --

      "I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole

    3. Re:Backs down = by hedwards · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, in the US most carriers use SIM cards. The exceptions are Sprint and Verizon which are both CDMA carriers. As far as I know, all the GSM carriers in the US use SIM cards. And if you're smart you get a SIM card and then buy a pay as you go card when you go traveling outside the US.

      It doesn't do you a lot of good, since the carriers haven't standardized their spectrum. Which is fine for voice as that is standard, but 3G isn't going to work without the carrier specific support. Around here T-Mobile uses the European equipment and AT&T uses a different part of the spectrum for whatever reason. Meaning that if you want to take your phone with you to the other carrier you're giving up 3G.

    4. Re:Backs down = by realityimpaired · · Score: 3, Informative

      AT&T is using the same part of the spectrum as Rogers and Bell in Canada, as well as several carriers in South America, Southeast Asia, and Africa. Rogers got their spectrum license early. Way before it looked like most of the carriers in Europe would be using a different spectrum. Bell is using the same spectrum because they were late to the game and have a tower sharing agreement with Rogers.

      And the part which answers your question... AT&T was part owner of Rogers 10 years ago. Most likely, they bought into that spectrum in the US at the same time as Canada because they wanted to be able to buy the same equipment for both brands and take advantage of economies of scale.

    5. Re:Backs down = by PeterBrett · · Score: 2, Informative

      Or you could get a non-proprietary like the Nokia n900.

      Hear, hear -- the N900 is great!

    6. Re:Backs down = by Night64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That is the problem with the whole "regulation is bad" dogma. In Brazil telecom companies are forced to use the standards, in a way that I can freely hop between carriers at will. And my phone number is MY phone number. No matter what carrier I contract, my number goes with me. That's how a free market was supposed to work. Competition, folks.

      --
      Grey's Law: Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
    7. Re:Backs down = by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wassup N900 buddy? (^_^)/\(^_^)

      It's good to be free!

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    8. Re:Backs down = by netsharc · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ah, my HTC Desire runs a hacker-made Android 2.2 (google "leedroid"), installed using a hacker-made recovery mode (google "unrevoked3"). It runs great, any Vodafone customers reading this should try it.

      --
      What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
    9. Re:Backs down = by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And this is why my phone isn't a smart phone.
      Any convenience or value provided by these devices, is never going to be worth placing myself in someone's walled garden.

      An Android phone is no more 'inside someone else's walled garden' than an Ubuntu[1] PC is. You can accept the updates offered to you by your supplier, whether that's Vodafone or Canonical, if you want to. You don't have to. And you can install third party applications through the provider's repository, if you want to, but you don't have to. You can download them directly from third party suppliers and install them, or write them yourself and install them. In what way is this a 'walled garden'?

      [1] Or Debian or SuSE or RedHat or, for that matter, Microsoft or Apple.

      --
      I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
    10. Re:Backs down = by Solandri · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that the "regulation is bad" dogma worked. Verizon and Sprint are CDMA providers while GSM originally used TDMA. The marketplace in the U.S. chose CDMA as the winner because it worked better and wasted less bandwidth than TDMA. The folks making the GSM spec agreed, and the 3G version of GSM in Europe (UMTS) used wideband CDMA.

      In fact you can probably thank CDMA in the U.S. and Japan for getting you UMTS and HSDPA as quickly as you got it. The CDMA carriers got 3G speeds almost two years before GSM. GSM had to scramble to develop and push out technology would could offer 3G speeds ASAP to remain competitive. What would the world have missed out on if the U.S. had initially forced all its carriers to use the GSM standard? Standards are fine (I think SIM cards are a great idea), but some competition between standards is also necessary to keep technological improvements coming.

      People seem to think that GSM is some static, monolithic standard. It's not - it is constantly changing and improving. About the only thing that's still the same with GSM is the SIM card. It's been integrating new technologies into the spec as we find out from real-world use what exactly works better. The same is happening with LTE - rather than a strict standard which defines exactly what technology you must implement, it's focusing more on flexibility and interoperability regardless of the specifics each company chooses to implement. That way you keep competition alive, but phones are still able to interoperate. Kinda like TCP/IP and how the Internet works regardless of your specific hardware.

    11. Re:Backs down = by MobyTurbo · · Score: 2, Informative

      That is the problem with the whole "regulation is bad" dogma. In Brazil telecom companies are forced to use the standards, in a way that I can freely hop between carriers at will. And my phone number is MY phone number. No matter what carrier I contract, my number goes with me. That's how a free market was supposed to work. Competition, folks.

      My number goes with me, if I chose to, in the US too, I think the UK has this regulation as well. I'm not sure who's market you have in mind for that one.

      Of course, the US happens to have a lack of standards, especially with regards CDMA vs GSM and the existence of two standards even for GSM 3g, that make keeping your actual phone, if it's a smartphone, difficult. (Even if you're switching from T-Mobile to AT&T with an unlocked phone, or vice versa, you're unlikely to be able to do better than EDGE speeds on your new carrier; and as for CDMA carriers, there is no such thing basically as an unlocked CDMA phone, and even if you hack one most CDMA carriers besides Cricket don't accept phones from other carriers on their network.)

  4. And this is why you buy unlocked/unbranded by ickleberry · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This shows once again that the little bit of a subsidy the network gives is never worth it.

    Remember lads this is in the UK where all networks offer good SIM-only plans and prepaid doesn't suck ass like it does in the States.

    1. Re:And this is why you buy unlocked/unbranded by wigaloo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To me, this shows we need a truly open distribution of Android that isn't controlled by any company. i.e., the Debian of Android. Debiandroid?

    2. Re:And this is why you buy unlocked/unbranded by DMoylan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      i do buy unlocked phones. and used to use vodafone sims on prepay here in ireland. till they changed their prepay service so that pages i browsed had shitty vodafone links and logos at the top. rang to ask how to turn the crap off and was told you couldn't so threw the sim away.

    3. Re:And this is why you buy unlocked/unbranded by grumling · · Score: 2, Informative

      Lucky you can do that in Europe. Here in the US, every carrier (save one, which I'll get to) is more than happy to provision your unlocked phone. But if you want to get an unlimited data plan, you have to sign a contract. The contract-free plans are horrible for data, in one case almost $5.00/day. And they don't give you a break on the contract if you have a phone, so you might as well get the cheapest phone with the offer and add on stuff later.

      Verizon's billing system won't let you add anything to a plan unless your phone supports it. I have no idea what they would do with an unlocked phone, but they do say they support them. It isn't as simple as installing a SIM card though.

      T-Mobile is the one beacon of hope. They have re-done their plans to look more like the European model. If you pay upfront for the phone (or buy one unlocked), you save money on service (and no contract). The only problem is that they use an oddball frequency plan that isn't compatible with anything else on the planet (thanks, FCC). So my Galaxy-S wasn't available unlocked, so I had to buy it from them, with their custom version of the Samsung custom Android firmware. I'm hoping there will be a plain vanilla build that will work with Samsung/T-Mobile firmware, but realistically it hasn't done anything I don't like other than clutter up my applications screen with a few things that can't be removed through rooting.

      --
      "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
    4. Re:And this is why you buy unlocked/unbranded by martin-boundary · · Score: 2, Funny

      Debiandroid?

      Hmm. Not very catchy. How about Debbidoesandroid?

  5. At what point isn't it a smartphone anymore? by jgreco · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If they're going to dictate mandatory apps and screen layout, that seems like it's moving away from a true smartphone and towards the realm of featurephone.

    I can definitely see having some predefined layouts handy for new smartphone users who don't really know what to do next, but it seems to me that one of the biggest advantages of a smartphone is the ability to customize it for your own arbitrary uses, adding your own layout and apps. If wireless companies are going to start dictating layout and apps, that seems like a step backwards. These phones are going to keep getting more capable with every passing month, new hardware design, and OS release, and if anything the market for featurephones would seem like it ought to be shrinking (since a smartphone can completely replace a featurephone). At some point, it'll be easier to sell a smartphone with a predefined featurephone-like template for users who would prefer that - instead of developing separate featurephones.

    Is it possible that someone at Vodafone simply doesn't quite understand this? I couldn't quite put my finger on what problem Vodafone 360 was designed to solve...

    1. Re:At what point isn't it a smartphone anymore? by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I couldn't quite put my finger on what problem Vodafone 360 was designed to solve...

      The cashflow problem.

      These guys have 2 products: the phone which they sell to you, and you who they sell to their partners.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    2. Re:At what point isn't it a smartphone anymore? by hedwards · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Perhaps in general there ought to be laws against that. In the US it's absolutely ridiculous that Fair Isaac Co., thinks that it owns my credit score. They calculate it, but they do so in a relatively fixed way on my data. They don't ask or get a waiver, they just spy on everybody and then expect to be paid. Likewise computer and phone manufacturers include software by companies that pay them to install it, but don't ask permission of the people buying the items. Given how prevalent it's become and the lack of disclosure it's really tough to avoid for a lot of people.

  6. Could be worse, it's only hardware by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm on Three, and anyone who wasn't previously on their "Xseries" service*, and isn't willing to pay £5/month for that service, is subjected to a content block. The content block redirects objectionable sites like B3ta to Three's PPV porn portal. It's like a protection racket: "pay us £5 per month, or you might find yourself looking at porn instead of the site you wanted to go to".

    *Long story involving their move from a walled garden internet service

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  7. Future Expansion by Arbition · · Score: 4, Interesting

    By the sounds of it, they haven't actually given the option to roll back to Vanilla 2.1, they just said, in fututre, the 2.2 will be available vanilla. Maybe they are expecting people to warm up to the "features" prior to the update?

  8. Don't hold your breath... by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 2, Informative

    Vodafone don't care about firmware upgrades unless they can control the content.

    I have an N900, admittedly a niche product, and they just stalled and stalled about putting newer firmware on it. I think they are currently 2 or 3 versions behind the latest, and they are unlikely to produce a newer version since they dropped the phone from their line up. They probably dropped it because they can't control it.

    They intentionally make vague threats about installing vanilla firmware and losing your warranty. They refuse to clarify their position on the matter.

    The only reason iPhone users get their upgrades on Vodafone is because Apple dictates what software goes on it through their contract.

  9. Vodafone 'rogered' my mobile phone years ago... by brindafella · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I keep telling this story **about** Vodafone, which cost me a **considerable** amount of money; and, they know it.

    Quite a few years ago, not long after Vodafone arrived in Australia, I was sold a mobile plan with Vodafone using an existing handset. I inserted the Vodafone SIM, and the phone would not work. **I had not yet made one call!** The company's designated repairer agreed to have the phone "unlocked" and, weeks later, it was returned to me supposedly fixed.

    I tested the phone in the store: The phone still did not work with Vodafone's SIM, but seemed to work with my old carrier's SIM. I gave it back to their designated repairer on the spot.

    Weeks later the handset was returned to me and I was told that the phone was affected by water, and would cost over $1000 to fix; much more than the handset was worth, or could be replaced, even back then.

    I pestered Vodafone for over a year, when they bothered to call to try to get me to pay their mounting monthly bills which I refused to pay. at the risk of repetition... **I had not yet made one call! (on Vodafone)**

    My premise was that I would happily talk to their people, for hours in some cases, until I had used up the cost **of their time** that they had ascribed to my "bricked" phone (that Vodafone had "bricked".) And, I alays told them what I was doing; that I was using a headset with the phone when they rang me at work, and I was actually productive while they were not!

    I regularly suggested that they buy me a new handset, which I would use with my existing Vodafone SIM. They refused. I would have used it, too! (Meanwhile, we had another handset with another company.)

    Eventually, a senior manager from Vodafone who called me worked out -- in the midst of a long conversation -- that I really meant what I was saying, and "wiped" my bill. However, my parting shot to him was to say what I had said to his other people; that I would continue to tell this story ABOUT (and never 'against') Vodafone. After all, I do not want to get into any legal trouble by bad-mouthing such a prosperous company.

    So, I just have told my story, again!

    You decide.

    Peter

    --
    Looking at space, radio, science and computing from a 'down-under' amateur enthusiast perspective.
  10. Sounds like Motorola's crappy "MOTOBLUR" by Dr.Dubious+DDQ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As a "CLIQ with MOTOBLUR" victim, I also have a bunch of non-removable shovelware on this thing - plus Motorola appears to have removed certain basic functionality from the stock Android.

    And don't get me started on their indefinitely delaying the long-promised update out of the Android 1.5 pit in order to "optimize the user experience in some key areas".

  11. How far away are we from customer unions? by Cyberllama · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't have to deal with Vodafone, but I get so much ridiculous crap from AT&T I've started to wonder how long before *customers* have to form unions to protect themselves from this sort of garbage. One person threatening to take their business elsewhere gets no notice, but if you could organize and get thousands of customers willing to "strike" together, maybe we could actaully have telcos that don't act like they're monopolies. I think a little bit of collective bargaining could really help us out on the monthly fees department too.

    1. Re:How far away are we from customer unions? by Cyberllama · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Boycotts are not quite the same thing. They're reactive instead of proactive. A company does something you don't like, and then you TRY to get enough people to care to boycott. I'm talking about organizing people beforehand and being very clear about what you don't want done.