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Ray Kurzweil Does Not Understand the Brain
jamie writes "There he goes again, making up nonsense and making ridiculous claims that have no relationship to reality. Ray Kurzweil must be able to spin out a good line of bafflegab, because he seems to have the tech media convinced..."
The singularity is to nerds what the rapture is to fundamentalist protestant wackjobs....
Sejnowski says he agrees with Kurzweil's assessment that about a million lines of code may be enough to simulate the human brain.
Here's how that math works, Kurzweil explains: The design of the brain is in the genome. The human genome has three billion base pairs or six billion bits, which is about 800 million bytes before compression, he says. Eliminating redundancies and applying loss-less compression, that information can be compressed into about 50 million bytes, according to Kurzweil.
About half of that is the brain, which comes down to 25 million bytes, or a million lines of code.
Idiot. The design of the brain is encoded in the genome in the same way that the design of a 4KiB program is encoded in its load module: useful for running the program on its original hardware.
But then you have architectural issues. That 4KiB of information does not run unless it's supported by a complex operating system, which itself is supported by complex logic in an ISA and memory managment architecture backing it up. And all that is implemented on a specific design in a specific physics model.
Translating that program to SPARC takes work, and it comes out roughly the same size. Translating that program to a progression of chemical reactions produces something vastly different, especially since you need a new middle ware (chemical environment) running on top of different physics (chemistry).
Translating a physical architectural design from chemistry to computer logic on top a given ISA is the same problem. You now have odd issues that are messy, and then the program running on the brain needs to be built again. That program is even more complex and less known.
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Would be nice if the summary even hinted at what the ridiculous claim actually WAS... Namely, that we'll be able to reverse engineer the human brain in the next 10 years.
It's a little more complicated than that. You see, the article actually breaks down the logic behind that statement and points out how poor it is. Here's the initial part of Kurzweil's argument:
Sejnowski says he agrees with Kurzweil's assessment that about a million lines of code may be enough to simulate the human brain.
Here's how that math works, Kurzweil explains: The design of the brain is in the genome. The human genome has three billion base pairs or six billion bits, which is about 800 million bytes before compression, he says. Eliminating redundancies and applying loss-less compression, that information can be compressed into about 50 million bytes, according to Kurzweil.
About half of that is the brain, which comes down to 25 million bytes, or a million lines of code.
I have only taken high school biology but I know that the genome doesn't magically become the brain. It goes through a very complex process to amino acids which fold into proteins which in turn make cells that in turn make tissues that in turn comprise the human brain. To say we fully understand this transformation entirely is a complete and utter falsity as demonstrated by our novice understanding of the twisted beta amyloid protein that we think leads to Alzheimer's. How amino acids turn into which proteins I believe is largely an unsolved search problem that we don't understand (hence efforts like Folding@Home). And he claims that in ten years not only will we understand this process but we will ... reverse engineer it?
The man is insane. I've posted about this same biologist criticizing him before and it looks like P.Z. Myers just decided to take some extra time to point out how imprudent Kurzweil's statements are becoming. Kurzweil will show you tiny pieces of the puzzle that support his wild conclusions and leave you in the dark about the full picture and pieces that directly contradict his statements. This is a dangerous and deceptive practice that -- despite my respect for Kurzweil's work in other fields -- is rapidly turning me off to him and his 'singularity.' He's becoming more Colonel Kurtz than Computer Kurzweil.
My work here is dung.
No not really.
A computer is a fixed system. If you tell it to do A (via software), you know you will get B, based upon knowledge of how the circuits are hardwired. The same can not be said of the human brain, because it has the ability to change its hardware (via growing new connections between neurons).
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
You're looking for a level of effort above pure copy'n'paste and as such are asking for way too much. Slashdot submissions and editing have gotten so bad that the summaries are generally misleading if not entirely wrong. The summaries tend to be nothing more than the submitter taking the most polarizing sentence/paragraph from TFA and pasting it into the summary field. RTFA is no longer to glean more details for the sake of learning more or backing up your opinions in comments... RTFA is now necessary to understand just what the fuck the submitter wants us to learn. The term "summary" appears to be _entirely_ lost now, at least in the Slashdot story submission crowd.
if you rtfa you'll see that the million lines of code only gives you the proteins that make up the brain - i.e., it gives you a parts list and a delivery schedule, not a set of assembly intstructions. The genome doesn't give you how the proteins interact, in usually complex ways (i.e., three or more proteins interacting simultaneously), in billions of cells in parallel, over the course of 9 months to give us an infant brain (even leaving aside the tremendous amount of development that takes place in the brain during childhood).
As the author of tfa writes: To simplify it so a computer science guy can get it, Kurzweil has everything completely wrong. The genome is not the program; it's the data.
IOW, the program is the developing organism itself, the complex protein interactions and it's (uterine) environment none of which are encoded in the genome. The organism uses the data encoded in the genome to produce proteins which interact with each other and the organism and its environment to grow cells which eventually form a brain.
The mistake in Kurzweil's thinking is the typical mistake engineers make when dealing with biology; the enviroments into which engineers place their designs do not typically spontaneously cooperate in the construction of the engineer's design. When an engineer designs a circuit board, his lab bench doesn't spontaneously start soldering connections and adding components for him and automatically complete parts of the design
without his explicit instructions. But the organism does precisely this with proteins syntesised from the genome.
As a result, the genome alone cannot possibly tell you how to "make" an organism, because the genome only tells you the parts list and delivery schedule for the organism, not the assembly instructions. The assembly instructions are not explicit anywhere in the system; the assembly instructions are implicit in the combination of the complex behavior of the cells of the developing organism, the uterine environment and the very complex ways the proteins sythensized from the genome interact.
In order to extract the actuall assembly instructions we'd need a full blown molecular biology simulator that could correctly simulate:
1. protein folding (still unsolved)
2. comlex multi-protein interaction (still unsolved)
3. simultaneous behavior and development, (i.e., in parallel) of billions of living cells each undergoing trillions of chemical reactions per second (computationally prohibitive)
IOW, it's not going to happen in the next 10 years.
Yes. Well done. Did you try reading the article that you are criticising because it rips your point apart fairly easily. The thing about an upper limit is that it should be at least as large as the thing that you are estimating. The article shows quite conclusively that Kurzweil's "upper limit" is far too small because he knows nothing about brains and pulled some numbers out of his arse.
That "tangent" that Myers went off of was a reasonable argument for why the amount of information described is not sufficient to simulate a brain. Not least because it is a highly compressed description of a process that builds a brain. It is not a description of a brain itself. Furthermore to use that description to build an actual model of the brain you need to understand all of the biological processes that are relevant in executing that construction code, and the environment that they run in.
Oh the irony, it's burning my eyes. You're defending somebody who was caught babbling about something they don't understand by repeating the trick. Well done you.
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Obviously, by your logic, a free market economy is impossible, Our economy is too complex to have evolved on its own. In fact, it is far more complex, with far more different parts, than a human being. It must have had a creator. If most any part of the economy, like the steel industry, say, were removed, the economy would not function. How did the economy function before there was a steel industry? Obviously, it couldn't, and therefore we have demonstrated irreducible specificated complexification or something.
All this free market talk is obvious bullshit, and we actually DO have a centrally planned economy because it is impossible for something so complex to have evolved without a central planner.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
you don't need to simulate electrons in a semi-conductive material at specific temperatures in order to build a complete working emulator for an old computer.
Maybe not, but you do need to understand the fundamental laws and rules that govern the systems of a computer. The fellow who wrote this article seems to be asserting that we actually don't know the fundamental laws and rules that govern the systems of the human brain, or, at least, Kurzweil doesn't. In other words, Kurzweil seems to oversimplify the problem by stating that, since the brain is organically grown from a base set of information, it should be trivial to emulate a brain once we can emulate that base set of information. Meyers seems to be asserting that the fundamental laws that govern the functions of the human brain appear to be far more complex and tend to derive from things other than that base set of information. The human brain appears to function under a set of laws and rules different than the set that Kurzweil assumes it does. That is the fallacy that Meyers is pointing out in Kurzweil's logic. Meyers may not understand computers very well, but he certainly does seem to have some insight on what rules and laws (biochem, protein folding, etc.) at least partially govern the human brain. Similarly, anyone writing a computer emulator needs to have the understanding of the fundamental laws and rules that govern the computer (binary logic, architectural pathways, memory addresses, etc.). Meyers goes on to say that our understanding of the fundamental laws of the human brain are incomplete at best and downright ignorant at worst. That's how he derives his argument.
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