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Is RFID Really That Scary?

tcd004 writes "Defcon participant Chris Paget demonstrated his ability to capture RFID data from people hundreds of feet away for the PBS NewsHour. Paget went through the regular laundry list of security concerns over RFID: people can be tracked, their information accessed, their identities comprimised. Not so fast, says Mark Roberti of RFID Journal. Mark challenges Paget to point to a single instance where RFID was successfully used for nefarious purposes. The signals are too weak and the data is too obscure, according to Roberti. So who is right? Has RFID yet lead to a single instance of identity theft, illegal monitoring, or other security compromise?"

8 of 338 comments (clear)

  1. Yes and no by autocracy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Tracking one person around a city with RFID would be a nuisance. You'd need multiple points, signal quality would vary wildly, it'd be painful in a way.

    Opposingly, you can get a lot of aggregate data in a semi-closed system. I remember once at a public event I was covering (wearing my journalism hat for a moment) that I thought, "I wish I had an RFID system handy. I could identify all the University students in a moment -- I bet you not a one doesn't have their RFID card on them."

    Tracking could be efficiently done in a system such as a mall or subway with exit monitoring.

    --
    SIG: HUP
    1. Re:Yes and no by vadim_t · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Are you sure?

      The problem with targeted ads is that they can be creepy, inappropiate and unaware of context.

      For example, imagine you're walking on the street with your friend/boss/old fashined grandmother. Suppose you're into manga/anime. Would you want a billboard to switch to an ad for Miyuki-chan in Wonderland due to your past purchase of the Chobits manga?

      There are lots of things for which you'd really hate to see a targeted billboard ad for in the presence of the wrong people, or any people at all. Just for instance: certain kinds of anime/manga (or anime/manga at all, if you're unlucky to be stuck with people convinced that it's all tentacle porn), hygiene products (buy our incontienence pads!), the wrong kinds of magazines or games, music by an artist you'd rather people not know you listen to, and so on.

      Be careful with what you wish for. There is no guarantee the advertiser will make any effort not to display anything that could be embarrassing, and even if they try there's no guarantee that they'll succeed. I got a few rather odd recommendations from Amazon and am rather glad they don't pop up on the street at just the wrong moment.

  2. Just because you don't know... by woboyle · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Just because you don't know for sure that something has happened, that doesn't mean it hasn't. The problem with RFID "scraping" is that you will never know that it has occurred. My instinct tells me that it has been going on for some time. As for RFID in identity cards, passports, etc. I think that their security is mostly, to put it in the words of Bruce Schneier, just theater.

    --
    Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.
  3. Yes and no... by BobMcD · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is RFID, as described in the article really all that scary? No, not really. E.g.

    30 to 40 million people carry RFID tags on their windshields to allow them to cross bridges, and more carry them in their wallets, and there is not a single example of anyone who had their privacy infringed because of the tags.

    So the fear that the government would use RFID to gain data that they already have is likely debunked. Also the tracking is largely moot. They can do that in all sorts of other ways...

    This is the part that scares me:

    Taken as a whole, Roberti asserts, the benefits of RFID tags -- to track merchandise and packages, and keep track of drugs and food -- far outweigh any downside.

    Where I bought my specific pair of shoes for today likely is not in a database anywhere. With RFID it wouldn't need to be. You just scan the tag and ask the shoes. This potential privacy issue also lacks an implementation, but still represents more information than anyone specifically needs to have. I fear the unintended (or secretly-intended) consequences of all this consumerist stuff in our lives suddenly having a history.

    1. Re:Yes and no... by Qzukk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      there is not a single example of anyone who had their privacy infringed because of the tags.

      Other than the cases of people's tags' movements being used against them in divorce proceedings and stuff? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20216302

      Oh wait, as long as the privacy goalposts can be moved at a whim, there is not a single example of anyone who had their privacy infringed because of the tags.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  4. Here's a better Defcon RFID story... by bradorsomething · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A few years ago a gentleman calling himself Major Malfunction decided to do a proof of concept at Defcon on the dangers of RFID. He set up a table with a box doing RFID queries. When the box got a return and found usable data, it snapped a picture.

    Many Federal agents walked by the table. They were not pleased when they found out the nature of the experiment. The data was destroyed, but the point was made. RFID protective wallets sold *real* well that year...

  5. Portable RFID chip Killer by mrops · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If a microwave isn't available

    1) Take a cheap camera flash
    2) Replace strobe with AWG14 or 15 coiled about (ummmmmm.. say) 10 times around your finger (remove finger)
    3) Charge flash (which isn't a flash anymore) and point to your favorite RFID chip, fire.
    4) Enjoy your restored privacy

    Disclaimer: Do not point towards your pace maker.

  6. The RFID in everything you buy at Wal*mart by pentalive · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Why isn't anyone worried about the Wal*mart RFID initiative?

    Wal*mart says if a company wants to sell its product in Wal*mart it must have an RFID in it. It also seems that they do not intend to disable these RFIDs once you buy the product - one of the goals is to identify the specific item when you want to return it. (stopping the "My X broke but it's out of warranty so I'll buy a new one and return the old one" ploy).

    I'll just use cash you say? If you bought anything with your credit card or with you ATM card each of those things is "pinned" to you. Things you get with cash get pinned to you by being associated with things you bought with plastic next time you walk through the door. You will be identified by the cloud of RFID devices one or two in each article of clothing you wear - in each item you carry. (each pinned to you)

    Next time you walk into Wal*mart it's "Welcome Back Pentalive" need more jeans? t-Shirts? Since the data belongs to walmart, the next time you walk into another business that bought the database from WM they also will be "Welcome to McDonald's, Pentalive".

    Hope you -never- go anywhere where you want to be anonymous (or at least never wear anything from WM.)

    Yes we are in public and thus have no expectation of privacy. But is it Wal*mart's business if you have been shopping at Target recently? And if Wal*mart knows where you have been - all the Government has to do is ask nice and they know too. Remember the Government can setup RFID readers too. Then they don't have to ask. You walk through the metal detector at the airport, a loop of wire built right in can read all your RFIDs at the same time.

    Arguments aside of "Well I will just microwave everything" does that really work or do you end up ruining that $100 pair of "Air Jordans" by melting parts? How about the RFID built into that nice laptop or netbook, or cell phone or iPad? Can't microwave those.

    Also if Wal*mart demands RFIDS in everything, perhaps it will just be easier for companies to put RFIDS in any products that might be sold at Wal*mart or might be sold somewhere else? That nice new polo shirt you got at Target, no RFID there right? You sure? They also sell that kind of shirt at WM.

    Iris scanning like Minority Report? Wear dark glasses, turn away from the sensor. RFID cloud? ? ? Wear your tinfoil spacesuit! I suppose it should be "I, for one, welcome my new location-tracking overlords."