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Electronic Voting Researcher Arrested In India

whatajoke writes "Hari Prasad, a security researcher in India who had demonstrated the vulnerability of electronic voting machines used in all elections in India, was arrested by the police on charges of stealing an electronic voting machine. The election commission of India has maintained that EVM are non-hackable. The election commission had previously provided access to the device to the security researchers for a day and asked for a hack in only that time."

11 of 188 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Who's making these hackable machines? by grim4593 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe, just MAYBE the companies want the machines to be able to be hacked by the Right People. So when word gets out that these machines have flaws that anyone with the right tools and knowledge can control it makes things harder for the company, and those Right People get miffed.

  2. OT: How to build an trustable voting machine by davidwr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    1) The voter gets to see the vote being cast.
    2) Auditors and manual re-counters get to see the exact same thing the voter saw. This means it must be a tangible artifact.
    3a) Audit all elections "to 5%" or "to the margin of victory" whichever is less. This provides a very high confidence any fraud wasn't enough to sway the elections nor was it enough to sway more than 5% of the tally. Do the same if any candidate is "close" to a significant threshold number, such as the number of votes needed to avoid a runoff.
    3b) Random audits "to 0.5%" or some other high confidence interval sufficient to expose and deter general game-playing by a candidate who lost so bad that the cheating didn't help him. If a losing candidates know they have a 1 in 10 chance of getting a "very close audit" they won't try to play games.
    4) Automatic recounts using different equipment PLUS a more thorough audit on any close election.
    5a) Manual recounts on any close election on the request of the candidate who is within the "margin of possible error/fraud" that the audits show could exist.
    5b) Manual recounts on any election where any candidate is very close to a significant threshold number.

    It's not hard folks. Machine-readable paper ballots typically meet 1 & 2. The rest is a matter of spending money after the votes are initially tallied, not a function of the voting machines.

    Auditing an election of, say, 3M voters where one candidate allegedly beat the other 50.5% to 46.5% to 3% for minor candidates need only determine that there's less than a 5% chance that the true election result had the winning candidate with 50%+1 votes to avoid a runoff. With a paper ballot satisfying #1 and #2 and generally accepted statistical analysis, this won't require a recount of nearly the entire pool of votes, only a random sample from each ballot box sufficiently large to rule out the need for a runoff.

    If on the other hand the alleged winning amount was exactly 1,500,001 out of 3M votes, or if it was 1,499,499 and the winner wanted a recount to avoid a runoff, a full manual recount would likely be necessary.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:OT: How to build an trustable voting machine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Wait, there's states that don't allow mail-in ballots? At least for voters who cannot be physically present on voting day, that is.

      The system you described is over-complicated. The system my town uses is simple, and I assume it is nearly identical to everyone else's absentee voting system.

      As a voter, I sign a statement saying I require an absentee ballot. This statement has a serial number stamped on it. I receive (either in person or by mail) a ballot, and inner envelope, and an outer envelope. The outer envelope is generic. The inner envelope requires my signature and has the serial number. Inside that is the ballot. The envelopes are sealed and may only be opened in the presence of multiple observers in order to be valid (particularly, at least one from both parties; not sure on the exact rules).

      Simple. It works. I don't know if the ballot has a serial number, but you could also put a serial number on the ballot and keep track of the serial numbers on the ballots handed out so completely new ballots could not be switched in (but, say, there would be no way of knowing if ballots used for absentee votes that were somehow invalidated were switched in, other than properly guarding the ballots).

      Of course, you could argue that the problem is the "both parties" part. That is, a lack of independent observers. If you trust no one involved in running the elections, then you can expect the people running the elections will figure out some way to rig them as they could simply be lying about following the procedures.

    2. Re:OT: How to build an trustable voting machine by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There are two contradictory things which must happen for machine voting.

      1. Each person must be identifiable as having voted and see the result of the vote.

      2. Each vote must be anonymous.

      No. That is classic, "the enemy of good is perfect" thinking.

      Voting fraud is as old as voting. The only thing that must happen is for the new voting system to be better than whatever it replaces. It doesn't even have to be significantly better at preventing fraud if it has other beneficial characteristics like making it possible for people to vote who couldn't easily vote before (people living way out in the boonies, those who can't read because they are illiterate or blind, etc).

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      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  3. Re:governments by clang_jangle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think the key is to always have a fresh, young government. That's one possible way to help keep the level of corruption low, creating a new government every so often (say 20 years or so). Our 200+ year old system has long since overstayed its welcome, becoming impossibly corrupt and ineffective at meeting the needs of the people.

    --
    Caveat Utilitor
  4. Re:Who's making these hackable machines? by Krahar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Security is hard and electronic voting machines are not a mature product. Give it 50 years and probably electronic voting machine security will have improved.

  5. Re:Disgusting Moderation by roman_mir · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If anything, US and Europe is showing the signs of the once OK governments becoming unbearable. Sure, revolutions change government and rarely set up ones that are better, the reason is that revolutionaries themselves make for terrible peace time governments, the revolutionaries should take down one government and replace it with a new one that is NOT part of the revolutionaries. Of-course this is a rarity.

    However, all the governments that exist today are all going to be replace probably within the next 50 years.

  6. Re:governments by Yaa+101 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Officials in most parts of Asia are prepared to hire a killer to murder the one that make them lose face, that is what is going on here, he is lucky to be alive today.

    Losing face is the thing that provokes most anger in especially Asian countries.

    Oh yes... I do agree with your insight regarding the US.

  7. Re:Get a grip. by NFN_NLN · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Its beyond offensive and disgusting that any post that defends and advocates terrorism like the above does is moderated insightful.

    The moderators should be ashamed of themselves here.

    Who's advocating terrorism?

    The founding fathers for one:

    "Occasionally the tree of Liberty must be watered with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants."
    — Thomas Jefferson

  8. Re:They can make slot games that can't be hacked t by zippthorne · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Slot games *can* be hacked, which is why there are multiple levels of brutes, pit bosses, etc. watching to make sure you don't have the opportunity to.

    The thing that makes slot machines secure is the layers and layers of people watching the process.

    But even all that only protects the owners of the machines from hacking by you. It doesn't go the other way around. Now, how do you suggest building the analogous into the voting system while still keeping voting anonymous?

    --
    Can you be Even More Awesome?!
  9. Dutch... by denzacar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In 2002 Dutch government resigned as they have accepted partial responsibility for Srebrenica Massacre.
    Mind you, this was a government resigning over something that happened long before they were in office and over an act that they did not instigate.
    So not only did the government step down, it took on their shoulders what they felt was NATIONAL shame.

    Sort of like what should the current US government resign over the My Lai Massacre.
    Except US soldiers actually massacred the civilians there, while Dutch soldiers only failed to protect the civilians.

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    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens