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MPEG LA Announces Permanent Royalty Moratorium For H264

vistapwns writes "MPEG LA has announced that free h264 content (vs. paid h264 content which will still have royalties) will be royalty free forever. With ubiquitous h264 support on mobile devices, personal computers and all other types of media devices, this assures that h264 will remain the de facto standard for video playback for the foreseeable future."

19 of 262 comments (clear)

  1. Paging lawyers by oldhack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is this one of those soft "pledges" that's not worth the paper it's written on, or is this something legally binding?

    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    1. Re:Paging lawyers by John+Whitley · · Score: 5, Informative

      Is this one of those soft "pledges" that's not worth the paper it's written on, or is this something legally binding?

      Any attempt by the MPEG-LA to renege on this grant (a massive public announcement within this industry) would be blocked by Estoppel (at least in legal systems which have that concept). Plus MPEG-LA has the additional deterrent that the backlash would be exactly what they're trying to avoid, only worse: it would promote market fear of H.264 for web use, forcing one of the format's competitors to rise to the forefront.

    2. Re:Paging lawyers by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      MPEG-LA has been very clear publicly in an official capacity on numerous occasions that only charging *for the viewing of the video* constitutes a commercial broadcast.

      As long as the customer doesn't "pay per view" you are in the clear. Ad supported... whatever. All fine.

    3. Re:Paging lawyers by Crispy+Critters · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Estoppel can be a little more complicated than that. If they change their minds and take you to court, estoppel would be your defense. But to use it, you would have to argue that their reversal has harmed you; saying "my company spent a million dollars creating and distributing free videos describing our product" would be a way to win, but "I have 10 GB of videos of my cat on my home page" would not. Also, defense of estoppel might be blocked if the program which initially encoded the video wasn't properly licensed or if you engaged in some other behavior that would be considered bad faith. If it's really important, get a lawyer. Or use a completely unencumbered codec.

  2. Oh snap. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Ok. Looks like Google wins this one. Basically, for ~100 million, was it, for On2, they get some tech that might possibly be interesting, and they get a bargaining chip that just made youtube immune to MPEG LA royalties.

    1. Re:Oh snap. by Dan667 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      unless google develops a better codec, which is probably why mpeg la decided to have a royalty moratorium.

    2. Re:Oh snap. by imsabbel · · Score: 4, Informative

      They havent been doing anything _but_ buing for the last years.
      Nearly all things "Google XXXXX" besides search are external aqusitions.
      Here for some quick reminders where google maps or picasa came from:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acquisitions_by_Google

      --
      HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
    3. Re:Oh snap. by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Informative

      but I think we would question the long-term future of a tech company that could ONLY buy things.

      Like Microsoft MS-DOS, Microsoft Internet Explorer, Microsoft Office Powerpoint, Frontpage ImgEdit, Microsoft Access, Microsoft Doublespace (oops - they got caught stealing that one), Virtual PC, ...

      Hey, at least Microsoft can take credit for the Zune!

  3. Excludes any comercial interests. Bad Summary-- by LordFolken · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comerical usage will still be subject to royalities. This is basically to get the people hooked on h264 so that streaming sites in the future need to pay roaylities. This is a common problem with "defacto" standards.

    1. Re:Excludes any comercial interests. Bad Summary-- by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's a little broader: it appears to allow any "free-to-view" internet video to use the codecs royalty-free, even if that video is being used to make money through e.g. ads. It does exclude video where users are paying to watch it, like Hulu.

      From the license summary [pdf], which hasn't yet been updated to indicate the indefinite moratorium:

      In the case of Internet broadcast (AVC video that is delivered via the Worldwide Internet to an end user for which the End User does not pay remuneration for the right to receive or view, i.e., neither title-by-title nor subscription), there will be no royalty during the first term of the License (ending December 31, 2010) and the following term (ending December 31, 2015), after which the royalty shall be no more than the economic equivalent of the royalties payable during the same time for free television.

      Commercial usage, even without charging end users, off the internet, e.g. with free television broadcasts, still requires royalties.

    2. Re:Excludes any comercial interests. Bad Summary-- by BobMcD · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you're making money you should be paying for the tools you use. This isn't some nefarious trick, it's honest business. I don't see how this is a problem at all, unless the royalties were absurd (which they aren't).

      Except when those tools are 'open'. Then you can use them and not pay for them, provided you keep them 'open'. It's a mutual benefit scenario...

  4. Re:Finally? by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Informative

    That isn't a specifically H.264-related policy: Firefox doesn't use system codecs for anything, because they want the exact same experience on all platforms. For example, they use internal image decoders, rather than relying on OS services like OSX's CoreImage. The downside is that therefore OSX on Firefox doesn't support everything that CoreImage does, unlike with WebKit, which just passes off to the system decoder. The upside is that the list of image formats Firefox supports doesn't vary by platform.

  5. Still Requires Licensing! by pavon · · Score: 5, Informative

    This announcement changes little. First, it is still uncertain whether videos served on pages will be required to pay royalties, so YouTube may very well still be required to pay royalties. More importantly, developers of H.264 encoders/decoders are still are required to pay patent licenses, regardless of whether they make money or not. This makes it impossible to have legal open source implementations of H.264 in the US anywhere that respects our patents. That is the complaint that Mozilla and Opera had against H.264 and so this minor licensing change will have no affect on the appropriateness of H.264 as an web standard.

  6. Re:Pirating n00b here... by Yvan256 · · Score: 5, Informative

    H.264 is the name of the standard.

    x264 is a free software library for encoding video streams into the H.264/MPEG-4 AVC format.

  7. Bad article title, bad summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The MPEG LA hasn't announced a "permanent royalty moratorium for H.264" at all. They've announced that they will not collect royalties for one particular use case. You still need to pay royalties for the encoder. You still need to pay royalties for the decoder. You still need to pay royalties for streaming commercial video. Since the MPEG LA wasn't yet collecting royalties on video streamed for free nothing has changed here. Recognise this for what it is: the usage of open, royalty-free video is rising on the web and the MPEG LA is worried about that. I don't have Flash installed anymore because increasingly I don't need it. I only ever used it for web video and these days I watch all web video in Ogg Theora or WebM natively in my browser.

  8. Re:Finally? by Confusador · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just licensing the decoder wouldn't be enough. For code under an open source license you have to be able to sub-license to everyone who gets your code.

  9. Re:Royalty Free Forever... by IICV · · Score: 4, Informative

    No, they're saying they won't charge you for it. They haven't relented on their basic position.

    This is like Microsoft saying "If you save a document in the Word format, we own a bit of it and you owe us money if you distribute it widely enough".

    Then people say "Um that's stupid, I'm not paying you money for something I made incidentally using your technology"

    Then (and this is where we are now) Microsoft comes back and says "Well okay, you won't have to pay us for it as only as you're not making money off of the document, but we still own a bit of the document."

    The important part here isn't the royalty charge, it's the initial claim that they can charge a royalty to the end user in the first place. They haven't relinquished that position at all, they've just said "we can do it, but we're nice so we won't".

  10. Re:Finally? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually GTK came first, and GNOME came later and used it. There's a reason why GTK is short for "Gimp TookKit" ...

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  11. innovation inversion by epine · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I made a post to this effect not long ago. For the most part, large corporations do not innovate. Large corporations like to talk about innovation until they're blue in the face, because the pretext of innovation is their best defense against sharp questions from the FTC. Microsoft in particular has been selling this Kool-Aid for decades. Why does Microsoft deserve monopolistic powers? "Because we innovate." Innovation is good for the consumer, hence our monopoly power is good for the consumer. QED.

    Innovation in large corporations is a simple matter of risk allocation. The investors who signed up for monumental risk when the corporation was small have long since headed for the exits. Few stakeholders in a mature enterprise want the ongoing volatility of a never-ending stream of "bet the company" innovation initiatives. Even when large companies are willing to innovate, they prefer to derisk the process by buying up a smaller company to prime the pump.

    This is entirely normal, and a big part of the reason why we have a small number of huge, mature corporations, and a wide base of small companies with larger dreams than revenues.

    Even when large companies do innovate, it's more often in the area of business process than underlying technology. At that scale, innovation which changes your company is far more valuable than innovation that changes your products. The innovation at Fed-Ex was distribution logistics. It wasn't a better envelope, unless you count slapping a bar code on an envelope as innovation.

    It is a risk when buying up small companies that you end up with too many culture fragments who don't sign up for the big picture. Hence the reason why upper management gets paid more than most of us sots. It's true that only a fraction of highly compensated management delivers value. This is also normal wherever you have extremely soft deliverables. It's really no different than the success rate of first round draft picks in any major league. You draft three players. One becomes the face of the franchise, the other two blow goats. It's very difficult to tell initially when they all show up wearing the same suits, speaking the same language, taught at the same schools.

    In a small company, a genius researcher is your most valuable asset. In a large company, a genius manager is your most lucrative asset. This is a simple calculus of scale.

    We have to stop thinking that innovation is a hallmark of vigour in large companies. There are more useful metrics of vitality, such as how a large company embraces its competitors. Do they raise the bar, or choke off the air supply? Intel is one of the strangest companies out there, because they suck at choking off the air supply (on technical grounds), yet they kick ass when they decide to compete on merit. Yet which do they frequently choose to do?

    I think it comes down to having all those highly paid managers trying to come up with a pretext to prove that they're the straw that stirs the drink and not just goat wankers in expensive threads. Hmmm, we could design the Core2 Duo. That would make the engineers look good and us look irrelevant. Or we could crawl in bed with RAMBUS. That would make us look good (long enough to promote and piss off) and make the engineers irrelevant.

    What I don't understand about all this, is that after Intel paid AMD a billion bucks for illegal tampering, why they didn't apply for a federal bail-out. Few companies that size wear their mistakes any more if they know how to play the game. They've missed out on *the* most important business innovation of the last thirty years. I think some of those suits need to be fired.