Slashdot Mirror


Brazil Using Smartphones For Planning the Future

shafiur writes "Brazil has bought 150,000 LG smartphones and has embarked on the world's first fully digital national census. Can they succeed when the US recently failed to go digital? The Brazilians say that the digital census has several advantages over paper and pen methods. They say that the data is more accurate since GPS data will pinpoint the exact location of a household. The GPS data is cross-referenced with satellite images to ensure that responses are correctly geo-tagged. The recently begun census will underpin future publicy-making decisions."

22 of 115 comments (clear)

  1. US did do GPS by ogre7299 · · Score: 2, Informative

    The US census did use GPS to pinpoint the exact locations of households. So Brazil can't do that much better....

    1. Re:US did do GPS by arb+phd+slp · · Score: 4, Informative

      I was an enumerator in 2000 and one of our team did exactly that: made up the data at home. She was caught in two days when those forms got input into the computer and got kicked back out. Besides running an ANOVA check on the data to compare the variances between workers (I'm guessing that's how they caught her so quickly, but I didn't know what an ANOVA was at the time), they also had a follow-up team separate from ours that double-checked a random sample of our work.

      --
      There's a perfect xkcd for my sig but I'm too lazy to look it up. sudo someone go find it.
    2. Re:US did do GPS by Stihdjia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually we did. One enumerator in my district did just that. He researched his assignments on the internet, and tried to forge reasonable responses. Of course this was detected during the quality control operation. This led to several humorous (well, on our side at least) interviews that went something like this:

      QC Clerk: Hello, Mr. Smith? We recently received your census response, and are calling for quality control. Could you confirm that John Smith resided at this address on April 1, 2010?

      Resident: John? Oh, heavens no... He died in '03. I have never been contacted by a census worker before.

      I feel bad for the folks that were contacted like this, but we checked every enumerator's work. I also feel for the large number of people who were contacted multiple times for QC purposes, who understandably became quite tired of hearing from us.

      Incidentally, the enumerators were initially given palm-top computers which I assume were similar to what delivery service workers carry. This was to be the main method field enumerators would use, meaning the US had planned to be largely digital. I never saw these because the idea was scrapped before the main operation began.

      The government may be slow to adopt technology, but they are not so stupid as to trust hundreds of thousands of temporary works at their word alone.

      --
      I see the fnords!
  2. Not the First by grcumb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Strictly speaking, Brazil is not the first nation to do this.

    The tiny Pacific Island nation of Vanuatu recently completed their 2010 census using smart phones. They mapped every single household across over 80 inhabited islands using GPS and are in the process of putting everything into a GIS-ready database.

    The challenge, of course, was several orders of magnitude smaller, but as a proof of concept, it was compelling. To be able to use electronic data gathering ina Least Developed Country with no mobile phone service to 20% of the country is pretty remarkable. This is the first time in its history that Vanuatu has had reliable, complete demographic data.

    --
    Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    1. Re:Not the First by grcumb · · Score: 4, Informative

      Do you know if they have cell service on all of those islands with satellite backhauls? Or did they have to physically aggregate the data from the devices?

      For the most part, they logged the data to the devices, then brought them back to Port Vila (the capital) and transferred it to the central system.

      GPRS service is available throughout much of the country, but at terribly slow speeds and very high prices (about US$4.00/MB). It is being used to transfer monitoring data from the several active volcanoes we have, but to my knowledge, not for much else. Even donors find the service too expensive and slow to rely on.

      There are VSAT uplinks at various places around the islands, but the two telcos here rely mostly on microwave links to hop from one island to the next.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    2. Re:Not the First by techno-vampire · · Score: 2, Insightful
      the two telcos here rely mostly on microwave links to hop from one island to the next.

      Considering the relatively small distances involved, microwave links are actually faster than VSAT uplinks. Going right across from one island to the next is much shorter than up to orbit and back, and there's no need to worry about intervening landscape getting in the way.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    3. Re:Not the First by grcumb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just finished reading the first couple posts from your blog. Any advice for someone who wants to pickup and move to Vanuatu to either do networking or volunteer work?

      Come visit first. There's a regional geek conference that should give you an idea of where things are at, coming up in mid-September. PacINET 2010 promises to be pretty good fun, and registration is free. If you can pony up for the ticket and cheap accommodation (guest houses start at about US$20/night, then you'll be right.

      A more general, cautionary note to folks thinking about working in ICT development projects in underdeveloped countries: You'd better be strong, flexible, resourceful, good with (human) languages and have more than the normal allotment of patience.

      I've been stuck in cyclones, got malaria, dengue, been hospitalised from the after-effects of prolonged dehydration, had more skin infections in more places than anyone really wants to know. I've been bitten by things straight out of a Tim Burton movie. I've had death threats and constant, insanely unreasonable demands on my time and my pocketbook.

      To put things into perspective: we had a 7.5 earthquake here a couple of weeks ago, and were laughing about it within the hour. Nature is tough and unforgiving here. You'd better be prepared.

      You may think all this is exciting. It's emphatically not. Put your Hollywood imagination away. It's tedious, uncomfortable and often dangerous in small, boring, trivial ways.

      I walked away from an affluent existence as one of the first few professional web developers to enter the field and survive now on a pittance (although I do live moderately well by local standards - my new house has hot water!).

      You have to measure success like a batting average. Just assume you'll strike out more than you succeed. Most projects are unwinnable from the start, and you only go through with them because to do nothing would be worse.

      On top of all of that, you'll need to adjust to a culture so foreign that it will shock you to your core. And you'll only have yourself to rely on. There won't be any police if you're in a tight spot, the fire truck - if it arrives at all - will come in time to water down the ashes.

      You'll see children maimed and even killed by trivially treatable conditions. You'll see good people die and bad people prosper.

      But once in a while, someone will smile at you like this, and it will all be worthwhile....

      ... It better be, anyway, because most of the time, that's all the payment you get.

      If, after all that, you're still intent on coming, then read this and come on along.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
  3. Re:Side benefits! by Smallpond · · Score: 5, Informative

    Also, it's a wonderful way for the government to show the poverty-stricken people (I realize that term doesn't apply to everyone) how "awesome" western culture is, and why they should start the "culturization" process we've been famed for in the past couple centuries!

    Care to bet how long before Brazil has to start cleaning up their pollution clouds?

    Hate to break this to you, but Brazil is "Western"

  4. Cost of Labor by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The claim that the US process cost 10x as much I imagine has more to do with the fact that the Census is a labor intensive process. So intensive that it altered our unemployment rates briefly.

    So yes the cost per person was about 10x higher in the US but the cost per hour for a census employee was probably considerably higher as well.

    The Brazilian Census cost about $1B USD. Of that only $75M was for their hardware. So in neither scenario was hardware cost significant. I doubt we spent $13B more than the Brazilians on developing custom hardware that we didn't use--so it's bad journalism and misleading reporting to suggest in the same sentence that our solution to develop custom hardware was an example of US waste.

    Furthermore if we have 30% more people in the US that means we would need 320,000 census devices. That's not a bad run of a product and I would say safely warrants custom hardware. Especially if you could create a far less expensive device. slow RISC Processor + Basic software + Broad-com chip w/ AGPS should be less than $100 to make. This is the census we're talking about. 7 questions. You don't need anything more than a TI-83, GPS and an 3G antenna to make that an effective product. I would be surprised if you couldn't make something which uses less than $20 in wholesale components.

    1. Re:Cost of Labor by aggles · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I had a good look at the US Census hardware and used it in the field with a census taker. It did nothing a smart phone couldn't do, but appeared to be an over-engineered yet poorly featured military industrial complex piece of crap. I'm SURE it cost way too much money, especially compared with the cost of an LG smart phone.

    2. Re:Cost of Labor by arb+phd+slp · · Score: 4, Informative

      They may be using modern technology to do the census, but they're using them in a primitive way. Modern statistical methods allow one to take a small sample and accurately determine the entire population and its makeup, at a tiny fraction of the cost.

      The Census Bureau has been arguing for sampling for several Censuses now. It's not like they aren't aware of modern statistical methods. It's a no-go. Congress won't approve it. It might not even be legal since the letter of the law clearly specifies an enumeration of every individual.
      Besides, the specific data from this Census gets opened in 2080 and will be a treasure trove for historians and genealogists.

      --
      There's a perfect xkcd for my sig but I'm too lazy to look it up. sudo someone go find it.
    3. Re:Cost of Labor by Raenex · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It might not even be legal since the letter of the law clearly specifies an enumeration of every individual.

      If they wanted to follow the law, they wouldn't ask all those other questions that had nothing to do with enumerating, including questions about race.

      Besides, the specific data from this Census gets opened in 2080 and will be a treasure trove for historians and genealogists.

      Or it may be opened before then and used for other reasons.

  5. Re:Side benefits! by FoolishOwl · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Also, Brazil is a relatively wealthy country.

  6. Re:Side benefits! by tomhath · · Score: 5, Informative

    Obviously you've never been to South America. Brazil is a relatively wealthy country, but it's a country of Haves and Have Nots. Poverty in the US is nothing compared to poverty there.

    If the US had waited a few years until GPS enabled phones were available they might have had more success. The contract to supply the devices was started way back in 2002. Maybe next time...

  7. First? by mattj452 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Nordic countries (Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland in this context) have all abolished the manual census counting years ago. In Sweden, the last census survey was made in 1990. Since then, an automatic system has been in place to which you report whenever you move, get married, have kids etc (well, I think the hospital is reporting children). Formally, this has to be made on paper so it is technically not a fully digital system. However, since the introduction of E-ID's a few years back, it has been possible to do this online, beating Brazil with at least 4 years.

    1. Re:First? by guantamanera · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Sweden doesn't as many immigrants as the USA or Brazil get legal or illegal that go in and out, plus in Sweden you don't have a big uncrossable jungle where there are still people who have never seen a white man. I used to live in Finland in a swedish speaking island Maarianhamina(lived with finns) and even counting all the people in each archipelago along with their livestock is way easier than counting all the people from the amazon.

      The Nordic countries (Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland in this context) have all abolished the manual census counting years ago. In Sweden, the last census survey was made in 1990. Since then, an automatic system has been in place to which you report whenever you move, get married, have kids etc (well, I think the hospital is reporting children). Formally, this has to be made on paper so it is technically not a fully digital system. However, since the introduction of E-ID's a few years back, it has been possible to do this online, beating Brazil with at least 4 years.

    2. Re:First? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      You're talking about completely different cultures. Americans are afraid that the nanny state will take over in the future. Nordic people are afraid that their nanny states won't be sufficiently good at nannying in the future.

    3. Re:First? by Rakshasa+Taisab · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the US, you worry about the government spying on you or infringing on your rights, while giving the corporations free pass to fuck you in the butthole all day and night.

      In the Nordic countries, we make sure our elected representatives and civil servants are people who do the right thing, in addition to expecting them to protect us from corporations too.

      Worrying about civil liberties? You guys won't even allow homosexuals to marry, wtf is that for civil liberties... Stop living in the 19'th century, as America is no longer the bastion of civil liberties it once was. It's frankly quite insulting and ignorant point of view that more shows your ignorance than anything else.

      BTW, per capita cost of health care in Norway (the most expensive country to live in in the world) costs less than half what it costs in the US, yet covers everyone. I believe that should be classed under 'nannying is damned cheap' if done using the Northern Europe style public management.

      --
      - These characters were randomly selected.
  8. Re:There was no technical issue by Omnifarious · · Score: 2, Interesting

    'Conversative' has lost it's meaning an US politics and has become another name for a political party. The conversatives aren't conservative.

  9. Re:In The US Enumeration Is Constitutionally Manda by demonlapin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    And enumeration is a lot less easy to game. Imagine the political games currently played at redistricting time being played with the census itself.

  10. What Western World? by andersh · · Score: 4, Informative

    I hate to break it to you but there is no such agreement.

    The exact scope of the Western world is somewhat subjective in nature, depending on whether cultural, economic, spiritual or political criteria are employed.

    From a cultural point of view Brazil could very well belong to the West, however that is not what is being challenged here [in my opinion].

    The obvious cultural, economic and political differences between Brazil and what is known today as described by the term "the West" (Western Europe, North America, Israel, Australia and New Zealand) are clear. Corruption is endemic, the justice system incapable, crime rates sky high, racial discrimination heavy, wealth distribution skewed.

    It would perhaps be more pertinent to discuss this in light of Brazil's present and future economic situation.

    As of today Brazil is not a developed country according to the IMF, OECD or the UN.

    It is perhaps most clear when considering the unequal nature of Brazilian society and Brazil's ranking according to the Human Development index. Brazil is ranked far below the average OECD country (Figure #1).

    I think the report speaks for itself: "By looking at some of the most fundamental aspects of people’s lives and opportunities the HDI provides a much more complete picture of a country's development than other indicators, such as GDP per capita."

  11. Re:Facts of the matter by keeboo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Did I hurt your feelings? I'm only trying to be objective here, I don't have any feelings for or against Brazil. I believe it will become a fully developed country within a few decades.

    You're just trolling.

    First you try to reduce my arguments to an emotional response, then you try to look reasonable while condescending.

    Brazil is a Western country by all means, and its history is an example on how things may go wrong in an Western country.
    Too bad it does not help the Western reputation around the world, uh?

    You're trying very hard to prove how bad Brazil and how wrong I am.
    Except that I did not deny that country's problems, instead I made clearly that many problems exist.
    Sorry if I didn't started a bash-fest against Brazil in order to keep you happy.

    I find it curious that you find so important to include Israel as, not only a Western country (it does not even make geographical sense), but as a developed one.

    Israel is clearly a developed nation in every aspect of the word.

    Feel free to believe that if you want.
    The palestinian issue is huge enough, but let's talk about the rest.

    First of all, Israel is a non-secular country. It follows jewish religious laws even for civil matters. Even wondered why certain jewish couples even bothered to get married abroad?
    Sort like Sharia. But since they don't cut your hand for stealing it's fine, right?

    The country laws (yeah, I'm saying laws) discriminate people based on their religion. You may start with their Law of Return.
    Yup, very western, very civilized and - of course - developed, if you compare to other countries during Middle Ages.

    Also, I don't think that fearing a rocket hitting your house is exactly quality of life.
    And I don't think that pushing jews of more recent immigration to live in colonies in occupied lands, risking their necks, is a good thing. - But what do I know, perhaps they're masochists and are happy with that. So it's HDI++, right?

    Freedom House's American origins not withstanding it still produces solid reports, I doubt you can find factual faults with that report?

    Funny, I don't remember accusing the Freedom House of inventing data.

    The point is that you can prove anything you want with carefully chosen facts: ommit what you don't want and amplify what does.
    Unless you're incredibly good at faking data, you do not: you select and display what suits you best.