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Canon Develops 8 X 8 Inch Digital CMOS Sensor

dh003i writes "Canon has developed a 8 x 8 inch CMOS digital sensor. It will be able to capture an image with 1/100th the light intensity required by a DSLR and will be able to record video at 60 fps in lighting half the intensity of moonlight. There are already many excellent quality lenses designed to cover 8 x 10 inches, although Canon may develop some of their own designed specifically for their requirements."

33 of 209 comments (clear)

  1. Coming soon? by Bryansix · · Score: 3, Informative

    The article did not explain if this would be incorporated into a camera anytime soon. Also I wonder how it compares to the Hasselblad digital backs and cameras. http://www.hasselbladusa.com/

    1. Re:Coming soon? by blhack · · Score: 3, Informative

      What you're saying is absolutely insane, I'm sorry.

      The sensor in my copier costs, what, $10? Maybe?

      You're talking about replacing that with something that would likely cost over $100,000 as well as well as the optics to support it.

      The sensor in a fax machine and the sensor in a camera are *totally* different things.

      --
      NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
    2. Re:Coming soon? by shawb · · Score: 5, Informative

      Bigger CCD does not necessarily mean higher pixel counts. In this application it means that each pixel will receive more photons per exposure, allowing for much better low light photography (I.E. less grainy.) Making larger CCDs previously meant higher latency (and therefore more motion blur or related distortion, in addition to lower framerate in video applications) due to limits in the speed of transfer of electrons in the medium. The innovative bit here is that Canon apparently came up with a circuit design that eliminates this latency.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    3. Re:Coming soon? by shawb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The point of the larger sensor is low light photography, NOT more data or higher pixel counts. Each "pixel" on the sensor itself is physically larger so they can more accurately report the light levels hitting them without introducing grain.

      This sensor isn't for consumer point and click cameras or anything like that... this will be for things like scientific instruments such as telescopes, microscopes, nocturnal wildlife and deep ocean photography (and of course for military and homeland security applications.)

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
  2. back to old style camera sizes? by magarity · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I assume this means a would-be digital Ansel Adams will need to drag around a camera the size of a bread machine? I'm not too confident the market size is large enough for anything other than highly specialized scientific equipment. I don't see large format digital cameras even for professional photographers because of what it will probably cost to produce.

    1. Re:back to old style camera sizes? by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Informative

      For architectural photography, and many landscapes, nothing, but nothing, beats a view camera. If you take a picture of a building with a standard DSLR, the picture will look like a pyramid, because the film plane was at an angle to the building. With a view cameras, with swings and tilts, you can have the lens and film plane parallel to the walls of the building, giving you a much more natural look.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    2. Re:back to old style camera sizes? by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 2, Informative

      Lenses for 8" x 10" (and 4" x 5") cameras have both the the aperture iris and shutter (which uses an adjustable mechanical clockwork) built in. Plus, they need a lot of extra film plane coverage, to allow for swings and tilts.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    3. Re:back to old style camera sizes? by LordKronos · · Score: 4, Informative

      Last time I looked, which waasn't that long ago, there were two DSLR tilt-shift lenses on the market, they cost about $3,000, and the coverage they had was unimpressive.

      It must have been a quite a LONG time ago, because Canon has had 3 tilt-shift lenses available for years. The were released in 1991, and are still available today. A few years ago they added a 4th lens to the batch (and updated one of the old models with a
      new version). So your choices are:

      17mm f/4
      24mm f/3.5
      45mm f/2.8
      90mm f/2.8

      Also, when I checked a few years ago, the cheapest one was under $1500. Today they range from $1200 to $2200.

    4. Re:back to old style camera sizes? by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I assume this means a would-be digital Ansel Adams will need to drag around a camera the size of a bread machine? I'm not too confident the market size is large enough for anything other than highly specialized scientific equipment.

      Ansel Adams used a 4x5 camera---large format. Had this been available in his day, he might well have used it.

    5. Re:back to old style camera sizes? by ffreeloader · · Score: 2, Informative

      The 35mm tilt/shift lenses provide nothing like the range of flexibility provided by a view camera.

      I've looked at both and a DSLR + tilt/shift lens is a poor substitute for a view camera if you are looking range of adjustment, quality of image, and the size of print possible without pixelation or blurring. The DSLR sensor is just too small and the 35mm tilt/shift lenses 2 axes of adjustment cannot compare with the 3 axes of adjustment available in a view camera. Plus, the view camera has a much greater range of adjustment. There's really no comparison between the two.

      --
      "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
    6. Re:back to old style camera sizes? by FlyingGuy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Ansel Adams used various format camera's throughout his long career. Everything from a 35mm up to and including the Polaroid 20x24 inch instant camera which he had hauled up a mountain in Yosemite to take photographs as at the time he was on retainer from Polaroid.

      His favorite was an 8 x 10 view. I know this because I was very privileged to meet the master in 1980 and actually asked him.

      To be honest I am not sure what he would think of all the new tools there are to take photographs. Much of his magic occurred in the darkroom as he meticulously used his masterful understanding of printing and printing chemistry to create breathtaking images that to this day have not been surpassed in my opinion.

      I have been a shutterbug since the early seventies and I am really not sure if you can duplicate the incredible subtleness of being able to alter the print developer just so so to render a more striking contrast or to bring out the very subtle shadow detail. I mean it is close, but I don't think it is there yet, just as digital has still yet to achieve the pure gradients that film provides so readily.

      --
      Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
  3. Telescopes by ksandom · · Score: 2, Interesting
    are the first thing I think of for this.

    There is currently no information about the sensor's resolution.

    Darn, that was my biggest question. Low light photography has always been one of my interests, so I would have a lot of fun with a camera based on this technology :D ... Actually, I'd be rather keen to have a try making my own... Maybe that's for another day though. ;)

    --
    Funnyhacks - Wierd, unusual, and fun hacks
    1. Re:Telescopes by Entropius · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Things *have* changed in recent times. Nikon introduced a 35mm-frame DSLR about two years ago, the D3, and now has four fullframe models that are just astounding in low-light performance. The D3S is the best of them: see dpreview's review at http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond3s/page33.asp .

      The D700 I mentioned above is their affordable fullframe model: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond700/page32.asp

  4. what we could get? by Fri13 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Moonlight on the earth surface or moonlight of the moon?

    Taking photos of the moon is same thing as taking photos of the bright sunlight of theearth surface. Like 1/125 f:11 ISO 100.

    No but really, that is impressive but depends from the aperture and lens quality do we get better than f:0.4 or something. But that just means the A/D conversion is impressive at that size of sensor so we might see very noiseless ISO of 250 000 setting.

    But there really is demand to get a old formats back. Especially if the megapixel amount would be same as with negative. What is not going to happend because Canon likes more to make bigger sensors than tight megapixels. Thing about A4 (197x210mm) sized full size architecture camera. On such negative with ISO 50-100 you can capture more details than what you could even think about with digital cameras.

    1. Re:what we could get? by hedwards · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's because the photosites are further apart and the lenses over the individual photosites are larger. Meaning that you can crank up the gain further without increasing the interference between photosites and have more light available to begin with. Basically you end up with more photons being directed at the photosite and less chance of energy generated at other photosites from interfering.

  5. Re:no resolution by magarity · · Score: 4, Insightful

    it's be great if it were something lame like 6 megapixel
     
    Why is 6 mp lame? Do you know the Hubble is something like .8 mp and it takes amazing pictures because the sensor is huge. Like this thing.

  6. Re:no resolution by Bryansix · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, they use software to merge the photos. Otherwise the photos would suck.

  7. Re:Resolution...? by m2shariy · · Score: 2, Informative

    RTFA: This follows last week's development announcement of Canon's 120 megapixel 29.2 x 20.2mm APS-H CMOS sensor. They are different sensors.

  8. Re:what is the spectral response? by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Perfect for capturing the Sorority girls in the next dorm over that turn-off the lights, but never close the curtains. "No honey I can't see you, but my camera can."

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  9. Shutter speed by WilyCoder · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "It will be able to capture an image with 1/100th the light intensity required by a DSLR"

    I'm reading that as ultra fast shutter speeds being available for fast moving photography. Cool.

    1. Re:Shutter speed by Entropius · · Score: 3, Insightful

      At the moment highspeed photography is limited by how fast the shutters will go. The larger focal-plane shutters used for this larger format are likely to be even slower than the ones used on today's DSLR's.

      My camera, a bog-standard Olympus DSLR, can do up to 1/4000. Nicer cameras can do 1/8000, but I don't know of any off-the-shelf DSLR that can do faster.

      I can shoot 1/4000 at ISO 800 f/5.6 in sunlight. With a f/2.8 lens (you'd use at least f/2.8 for highspeed work, f/2 if you can get it) you can get up to 1/8000 in outdoor light at a reasonable ISO. (Four Thirds cameras can do ISO 800 with reasonable quality; the best APS-C, like the Nikon D300, can do ISO 1600; fullframe can do ISO 3200.)

      This thing might be able to get up to 1/8000 in worse light, but only if you can find a f/2.8 or f/2 lens for it. Large-format lenses tend to be slow.

    2. Re:Shutter speed by __aarzwb9394 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nikon d3s (35mm size sensor) can currently do up to 102400 ISO and produce usable images.

      Can anyone tell me why this wouldn't be used with an electronic shutter if ultra high speed photography was the goal?

    3. Re:Shutter speed by rssrss · · Score: 2, Informative

      Large Format View Cameras do not use focal plane shutters like DSLRs. They use blade type shutters mounted in the lenses. The real use for high sensitivity will be to allow for smaller apertures and greater depth of field.

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
  10. How many pixels? by blair1q · · Score: 2, Funny

    TFA doesn't say how many pixels it is.

    One?

    1. Re:How many pixels? by PPH · · Score: 3, Funny

      Meh.

      My neighbor has a 20 x 8 FOOT one pixel unit. It takes lousy photos, but it generates a couple of kilowatts.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  11. Re:no resolution by shams42 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Ahem. Remember that you have to account for the Bayseian Filter in front of the sensor.

    It's not a "Bayseian filter" [sic], it's a Bayer matrix.

  12. Re:no resolution by Whiternoise · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's not the whole story. The actual size of the HST sensor is something like 45mm square (or maybe diagonally). Hubble takes amazing pictures for a few reasons. 1. It's got an 8 foot (2.4m) collecting mirror, so its light gathering prowess is amazing compared to normal cameras - like most telescopes. This means that the sensor is only effective because Hubble can direct so much light onto it. 2. It tracks the sky - like motorised ground based telescopes it is incredibly good at pointing in the same place for extended periods of time. So it can take longer exposures to get more light in. The Deep Field was taken with exposure times of roughly 1200 seconds, for instance. I assume it could expose for longer if it was at a Lagrange point and didn't have to contend with orbiting the Earth. 3. It's in space.. so there is very little in the way of light pollution (besides the sun!) and no atmospheric diffraction limit. Presumably they also make "panoramas" of the images to make them appear larger in print. The famous "Pillars of Heaven" shot is certainly not one image.

  13. Re:no resolution by treeves · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And how is a higher resolution sensor going to undo lens aberrations? That would be nice.

    --
    ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
  14. Re:No free lunch by ffreeloader · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You have this exactly backwards. The more you can stop down your lens, f2.8 wide open and f60 stopped down, means less light to your sensor, the greater your depth of field. This sensor means you could shoot at ISO 25, a shutter speed of 1/500 or 1/1000 of a second, and an fstop of 60 very easily in a lot less than full light conditions. That's a great depth of field, a shutter speed fast enough to reduce the effects of any vibration, and still get enough light to get a good exposure. I'm just guessing on what the fstop and shutter speeds would be with a sensor that light sensitive, but with a modern dslr you couldn't even get close to those settings in anything less than bright sunlight without very low shutter speeds that require the use of a tripod and higher ISO settings that tend to induce noise.

    --
    "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
  15. Re:no resolution by hedwards · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's not true. Canon's professional cameras have larger sensors combined with higher pixel counts, however, once you hit a certain point where you're out resolving the lens, you're not going to get a whole lot out of adding more pixels without enlarging the area by more than that. Which is why the full frame 35mm format will always be capable of having more pixels than the APC-S or 4/3 formats will, at some point you hit the point of out resolving the lens at which point you're only option is to go larger. No technical wizardry in chip or in the camera hardware will ever make up for that.

    Same goes for lens aberrations of various sorts, you can make them less obvious, but at the end of the day, you're still sacrificing image quality and counting on the camera system to do the right thing. But you're still going to lose detail and introduce other image problems.

  16. Re:no resolution by lxs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You have to take into account noise on fingernail sized sensors. On this scale at 6MP, the noise floor would be very low.

  17. Re:no resolution by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Pixel count isn't everything, especially these days.

    That's why a 6 megapixel APS-C DSLR will blow away most 10-14 megapixel point and shoots in terms of image quality.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  18. Re:no resolution by Mr+Z · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If they use this for scientific work (which I imagine they might), something tells me they won't have any Bayer matrix on it, and will instead do multiple shoots with different whole-image filters, to avoid artifacts due to demosaicing.