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Northrop Grumman Says 'I'm Sorry' For Virginia IT Outage

Lucas123 writes "After a storage area network in a data center run by Northrop Grumman went down last week, crippling 26 state agencies' websites — some for more than a week — Northrop Grumman has now apologized to Virginia, saying it will learn from its mistakes in order to recover systems faster in the future. Northrop's $2.6 billion service contract with Virginia's government has come under harsh criticism in the past for service outages, along with project delays and cost overruns."

38 of 168 comments (clear)

  1. Apt Futurama quote by dkleinsc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hermes: What do we do when we break somebody's window?
    Dwight: Pay for it?
    Hermes: Heavens, no! We apologize! With nice, cheap words.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    1. Re:Apt Futurama quote by Amouth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Think BP will pay a dime if it sees it can avoid it?

      Yes - and they already have. Under law when it happened they are only liable for 75m they have already paid out a hell of a lot more than than that.

      Why? because it would cost them more not too. If BP ran with the law at the time and said too bad soo sorry we are only liable for 75m, the media and the politicians would have gone ramped with it in their own name (elect/pay me i'll fight the evil doers BP for you).. instead BP did the correct thing and said out front before ANYONE mentioned making them pay - that they would pay for it. That they would foot the bill, and so far they have.

      Just because they can get out of paying for something doesn't make it wise to do it.. as for NG.. i doubt the VA contract is a large portion of the biz and isn't a core piece - so yea.. they are going to use cheap words.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    2. Re:Apt Futurama quote by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Informative

      Under law when it happened they are only liable for 75m they have already paid out a hell of a lot more than than that.

      If there was "negligence" then there was no cap on the damages. Given what was available initially and what has come out since, there seems to be little doubt to those that matter that the "negligence" standard was met and the $75 million cap would not apply.

      And even if it did, that's a cap on punitive, not actual damages. As such, they could be sued for trillions, and setting up an immediate fund for the civil issues has no impact on the small part that the $75 million would cover, if it applies (which it apparently doesn't).

      BP did the correct thing and said out front before ANYONE mentioned making them pay - that they would pay for it.

      That's why it took a meeting with the President before they actually did anything other than cheap words? Because they did it out of the goodness of their hearts? Or were they asked before they did it? I can't imaging that there'd be a meeting with such an outcome with nothing being mentioned about making them pay. Oh, and "ANYONE" is simply false, as the media was alreaty mentioning it before they announced anything. So you seem to be wrong on every single point you mention. In a rare ad hominem (just calling someone an ass isn't an ad hominem, it's an insult, you have to actually insult them and at least imply that because of the trait insulted that other things they say should be ignored), I'll state that anyone that can't get a single fact right on BP shouldn't be listened to on anything else liability related.

      Just because they can get out of paying for something doesn't make it wise to do it.. as for NG.. i doubt the VA contract is a large portion of the biz and isn't a core piece - so yea.. they are going to use cheap words.

      They'll use cheap words, but not for the reason you mention. They are a professional government contractor. They know the government rewards incompetence. They'll use this as an excuse to increase rates next time (see, you only gave us 2.4 billion, and it wasn't enough). The professional contractors underperform almost every time. The professional contractors are over budget almost every time. And, as a result, they get paid more for the overruns and get more contracts to fix what wasn't right the first time. But, of course, the problem was predicted quite clearly by Eisenhower. NG is a product of the military industrial complex. But having a problem laid out before us clearly by a president doesn't seem to affect anyone. Washington stated in his farewell address that parties would harm the country, and look where they are taking us now...

    3. Re:Apt Futurama quote by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2, Informative
      It's in the context of the fact that all of BP's wells need to undergo re-certification and re-permitting to continue operating in the gulf. This includes wells that are not yet operating. You were aware of this, right?

      Nagel is quite clearly correlating the re-cert process with funding the commitments BP as made.

      Either he's bluffing (quite possible) or he's making it clear that funding for those programs is contingent on re-cert.

      is what i call over spin/fear mongering.

      Why? Nagel is clearly insinuating that BP would discontinue payments on those programs if the wells are not re-certified. How is my restatement of his threat overblown? Just because he minces words means the threat is not there?

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  2. Poor metropolitan area by Pojut · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Maryland/VA/DC metro area is really starting to go down hill, from an infrastructure standpoint. Things are just falling apart around here...oh, and what's that? Instead of investing in fixing aging infrastructure, they instead are spending billions to build the ICC? Oh, and what's that? It's STILL going to be a toll road?

    I've lived in Montgomery County my whole life, but I'm quickly getting tired of this place -_-;;

    1. Re:Poor metropolitan area by Wiarumas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      http://www.thesentinel.com/mont/Pepco-Investigation2010-08-12T10-54-42

      The governor of MD wrote a letter to Pepco regarding those power outages. As for the snowstorms - its because the DC area historically does not receive snowfall to justify a ROI on snowplows. Instead, they borrow them from the north. Its not like in PA, where if it blizzards overnight, the streets are clear by 6AM so the kids can go to school.

      --
      I will bend like a reed in the wind.
    2. Re:Poor metropolitan area by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      http://www.thesentinel.com/mont/Pepco-Investigation2010-08-12T10-54-42

      The governor of MD wrote a letter to Pepco regarding those power outages. As for the snowstorms - its because the DC area historically does not receive snowfall to justify a ROI on snowplows. Instead, they borrow them from the north. Its not like in PA, where if it blizzards overnight, the streets are clear by 6AM so the kids can go to school.

      And the plowing was also poorly prioritized and executed. I live in Alexandria. My residential street was clear to pavement with repeated passes of salt and sand, but Duke Street and Route 1 were an unplowed rutted mess. All because I have a member of the General Assembly living in my neighborhood (that's at least what I've been told by those in the know).

  3. My Project by WED+Fan · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have a project in a separate NG hosted dataspace, in Virginia. They are killing us with incompetence and their sub contractors are worse then they are. We are still trying to get things certified and they won't provide us information about their hosting. We think they have us on virtual servers that belong to another project, and the reason they don't want to tell us anything is that it would reveal they are in breach, since we are paying for dedicated servers.

    --
    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
    1. Re:My Project by snspdaarf · · Score: 3, Informative

      I do some work with NG sub contractors. One is a delight to work with. Working with the other is like staring at the sun through binoculars. People don't answer email, sometimes because they are lazy, sometimes because they quit. When an answer does come in, it is worse than none at all. It's like the worst troll postings on slashdot, full of errors, run-on sentences that confuse more than clarify, and off topic. Absolute nightmare.

      --
      Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
    2. Re:My Project by Cylix · · Score: 4, Informative

      Unless they have gone to some very lengthy steps to hide this you can probably discover the information on your own.

      http://www.dmo.ca/blog/detecting-virtualization-on-linux/

      This page details steps for many different types of virtualization environments. Though I think it would be just as fast to sort through the output of dmidecode and look for an identification in the mess.

      I'm afraid this is rather linux centric, but even so similar data sets can be collected on windows.

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    3. Re:My Project by Monchanger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As much as Northrup is being bashed here, I don't think this problem is specific to NG, but common to many large contractors and their subs.

      In the few times I've worked with subcontractors doing IT for the government I've been unimpressed. Even being one step away from the prime contract seems to allow for many problems, both technical and managerial. Requirements and deadlines aren't met, and they pull the BP-Halliburton-Transocean trick of avoiding responsibility by blaming each other (as well as everyone's favorite scapegoat: the government). Trying to get a subcontractor to build things they way they were supposed to will often require waiting for the next spiral, which means going way over budget.

      I understand the difficulty with pushing too hard, punishing contractors who screw up and scaring them away from government work, but it seems we've gone too far in accepting very expensive third-rate work. As much as the public likes to say government can't do anything right, how much worse off would we be than $2.4B in the hole with nothing to show for it but a mediocre datacenter run by amateurs? I don't think I'm asking for much, I haven't touched on the very messy political poisoning of contracting.

    4. Re:My Project by guruevi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A couple of months ago there was a declassified document (either on /. or Wikileaks) that was basically a CIA/War Department handbook for (civilian) saboteurs against an oppressive regime. If you read this, you can see a lot of the practices that are recommended to be used against the 'enemy' are exactly the same as those contractors use. The goal is to have the enemy (or the company you're contracted to) spend as much money as possible on lost time and resources. The only difference is the people/group that profits from it.

      I've been a contractor before for some of those contracting companies - they basically try to keep you as long as possible in a position even if it's totally unnecessary since they get paid ~80%-120% of your (before-tax) wages.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    5. Re:My Project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I *was* a NG subcontractor, doing sysadmin work in a datacenter in a different state. Oh, the stories I could tell. More than once, as a new project was in the bidding stage, I would point out serious, game-stopping flaws in the proposal. The response was inevitably along the lines of "Fixing that would require us to raise our bid, and we don't have any exposure this way because we can blame the agency for a flawed proposal. Then they would win the bid, a bunch of equipment would get dumped on the floor, then sit idle for a few months as everyone tried to figure out how to get around a problem that should have been dealt with up front. Coming from the private sector, where satisfying the customer with a working solution was *the* criterion for success, this made my skin crawl. Since I wouldn't play ball, and was always completely candid with my customers about all the shenanigans, guess who's contract wasn't renewed :). Think NG is being unfairly singled out? The very first problem I had to deal with was frequent network outages. Turns out their resident network guy was making "10-base-T" cables with flat (untwisted) cables. I actually had to explain why this was a bad idea, and it took a good while to convince him. (posting AC for obvious reasons).

  4. To be fair... by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2, Insightful

    To be fair, there is no evidence that Northrop is doing worse than anyone else would have done. We are talking about an enormously complex IT infrastructure here (or so I assume, since it is a government network), and this is not exactly a uniquely bad failure. A week may seem extreme, but I have seen smaller scale systems go down for that long.

    I am not an apologist for Northrop, I am just saying that this is not exactly one-of-a-kind incompetence.

    --
    Palm trees and 8
    1. Re:To be fair... by bsDaemon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Meanwhile, the last week has marked the first time where there was really a valid excuse for apparently unmoving lines at Virginia DMV branches... glad I don't have to get my license renewed until 2017. They should be back up by then.

    2. Re:To be fair... by rotide · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Frankly, I've been witness to whole Enterprise datacenters going offline and then being brought up system by system in less than a week (candy red button). A week to fix a SAN issue? really? Why not classify it as a Sev0 (public exposure) (probably a somewhat unique code to the company I work for) and get the vendors in THAT DAY to fix it?

    3. Re:To be fair... by Spazmania · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Which is why you don't try to implement this broad an IT contract. Was a damnfool idea at the start.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    4. Re:To be fair... by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2, Informative

      Really? This is hardly a great track record:

      During the first six months of 2009, Virginia's Department of Transportation (VDOT) experienced 101 significant IT outages totaling 4,677 hours: an average of more than 46 hours per outage. One outage, the Times-Dispatch said, took 360 hours to correct. The state's Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) has experienced over the course of 5 weeks this autumn some 12 outages that put individual DMV offices out of business for a total of more than 100 hours the paper says.

      From here. I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for that.

  5. IT Bubble Syndrome by darien.train · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The "old business man discovering the internet" IT bubble culture is still alive and well in the defense industry. They have such a bad track record with networking technology it borders on scary. Transformation comes to mind quickly and they keep repeating the same mistakes.

    --
    I don't know how many years on this Earth I got left. I'm going to get real weird with it. - Frank Reynolds
  6. I was involved with NG on a project once.... by quangdog · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Fresh out of school with my CS degree I went to work on a project for my employer that involved partnering and working directly with folks from NG. The original deadline for shipping the solution was something like 6 months after I started. The complete and utter incompetence of the NG side of things wound up stretching this out more than 18 MONTHS longer, and the final delivery lacked a lot of the original stated requirements.

    Being the newbie to the whole corporate culture, I was shocked that people were not bothered at all by blown deadlines, missed estimates, and huge cost overruns. Shortly after the project finally delivered, I bailed to work for a much smaller company (fewer than 10 employees) where I discovered that I really love the smaller, more dynamic environment that only small companies can provide.

    Working for huge corporations just sucks.

    1. Re:I was involved with NG on a project once.... by Nadaka · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I work for a smaller DoD related company (17k employees, so not that small really) and I hear nothing but horror stories about NG, and have experienced one of them myself. NG originally developed our project but was not allowed to bid on the re-compete where we picked it up. It was bad, but we are fixing it. I really can't say much more than that at the moment.

    2. Re:I was involved with NG on a project once.... by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Probably but you die on the inside every day you have to work up bullshit excuse why this was bound to happen and why it's a good thing.

  7. NGC Culture by CherniyVolk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I work with a fair number of ngc.com; I'm a contractor myself. At one point, I had a few interviews for Northrop and I'm so glad they over looked my talents because they seem to abuse the talent they have.

    Now, this may not be for every department or division, but almost every NGC employee I know is basically well familiar with furlough. Whether good or bad, NGC is left with the ability to place entire departments on furlough to reduce overhead costs in the event a contract dries up. Now perhaps it's their size, perhaps they simply don't care about their workers, but this sort of thing seems to happen often. I'd guess that no NGC employee with a tenure more than 2 years hasn't been out of work for up to a month or so. But this is how things are run there.

    See, government contracting works like this. You create a company, hire some folk to work on a contract. Whatever their salary is, you charge the government +50% or more, so essentially the government is not only flat out paying your salary but also the company for your services. If the contract ends, so does your job as the company may not want to charge overhead. In contrast to other business sectors, employment typically isn't grounded so harshly on the existence of a contract, which is where cost of business and business management can keep workers afloat even during down times (think department store).

    I only point out Northrop because while all government contracting is essentially this contract+play model, Northrop has a reputation of placing people on furlough much more often than other companies such as CACI, Raytheon, General Atomics etc. Some Northrop employees seem to live the lives similar to actors and actresses in Hollywood, and I'm not talking about Tom Hanks acting, but maybe those actors that get little spots from time to time on your sitcoms. They literally live in apartments, and wait for the phone to ring day after day. Northrop employees seem to wake up in the morning, wondering if they'll still have a job at the end of the day.

    What does this observation have to do with the op? Well, it seems that moral and motivation might be a bit low on a large scale at Northrop, so such blunders are no surprise to me.

    1. Re:NGC Culture by XorNand · · Score: 3, Informative

      See, government contracting works like this. You create a company, hire some folk to work on a contract. Whatever their salary is, you charge the government +50% or more, so essentially the government is not only flat out paying your salary but also the company for your services. If the contract ends, so does your job as the company may not want to charge overhead. In contrast to other business sectors, employment typically isn't grounded so harshly on the existence of a contract, which is where cost of business and business management can keep workers afloat even during down times (think department store).

      I do a lot of business with both the federal gov't and private sector businesses on IT projects. You've over-simplified things to the point of painting an inaccurate picture. Federal contracting is extremely complex and there are myriad types of contracts that can be awarded, each with different terms. It sounds like what you're describing is a labor-hour contract. The contractor bills the gov't for the "fully burdened cost" of putting a warm butt in a seat. This includes the worker's salary, overhead, G&A (general & administrative), and profit. All together, it's typically a lot more than a 50% markup of the staff's straight salary.

      Unlike most private sector contracts, when doing a fully burdened labor hour contract with the feds, the contractor will spell out exactly what their profit margin is. Generally this is only 6-10%, which is considerably lower than the private sector. Despite what everyone thinks, doing business with the gov't isn't all that lucrative. It's an extremely competitive market in which the bottom-line cost is almost always the most important factor. Contracting officers are even prohibited by law to give preferential treatment to companies that have previously done a great job.

      I can't really comment on forced furloughs, because I'm not familiar with how Northrup operates. But just because they do "government contracts" doesn't necessarily mean they can afford to keep highly-skilled staff on the payroll until they find a new project for them. Federal contracts can really help with sales revenue because they can be large awards and the government *always* pays. However, the trade off is all the red tape (which increases G&A costs) and the low profit margins. Next time you hear about Company X getting a $10M contract, don't just roll your eyes. Get a hold of their proposal and the contract and see what their actual profit is on the contract. Both documents are public property and available upon request from the federal contracting officer that made the award. (Defense related contracts might need to be pried from gov't with a FOIA request though)

      --
      Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
    2. Re:NGC Culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Whoa anecdote! I've worked for DoD contractors for years (and on different coasts). I've never heard of anyone at Northrop being placed on furlogh so I guess we don't know any of the same employees. In my experience, when there are no contracts, the employer covers your salary until the numbers tell them to start laying people off. If you are an employee they either pay you or lay you off. You don't sit around at home waiting for a call. Thats one of the benefits of a big company. They have enough stuff going to ride the wave and not have to lay people off when someone is done a contract and the next one doesn't start for a week. Their incentive is to keep you because they need to show they have enough people to complete a contract to win it.

      Now have 2 data points.

      Such blunders are commonplace in any large organization. Someone name an entity of 150k+ people that works well to prove me wrong. With large systems things get complicated. There are a lot of stupid people out there and the bigger your organization, the more likely they'll creep in and screw things up with politics etc. But despite the large management structure there are plenty of smart people around to keep things running. Some things are so big they can only be done by huge groups...with a bunch of slackers riding along.

  8. It was EMC storage failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    It was EMC storage that failed:

    http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2010/08/31/emc_system_serving_virginia_breaks_down/

    "A major portion of the network shut down on Thursday after some of the EMC gear malfunctioned. As many as 400 server computers in various government departments relied on the storage network and were knocked offline.

    Both Northrop Grumman and EMC declined to comment, directing all inquiries about the breakdown to the Virginia Information Technologies Agency, which oversees all of that state’s government computer systems. According to the agency’s website, EMC said that Thursday’s breakdown was unprecedented. “The manufacturer reports that the system and its underlying technology have an exemplary history of reliability, industry-leading data availability of more than 99.999% and no similar failure in one billion hours of run time,’’ the website said."

    1. Re:It was EMC storage failure by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 3, Informative

      I would sue the living shit out of Northrop. That's insane.

      Based on what would they sue? The contract they signed had no requirement of redundancy. As much fault as NG has in this, it's not like they broke the contract or anything. This is as much the fault of the incompetents in Virginia's IT Agency as on NG's.

      Apparently, when VITA negotiated its 10-year, $2.3 billion outsourcing contract with Northrop Grumman to modernize Virginia's 85 state government agencies' IT systems and networks, it forgot to require network that backup capability be provided in case of network failure, the Richmond Times-Disptach reported over the weekend.

    2. Re:It was EMC storage failure by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually the lesson is to not let a bunch of incompetents draw up your IT contracts.

      Apparently, when VITA negotiated its 10-year, $2.3 billion outsourcing contract with Northrop Grumman to modernize Virginia's 85 state government agencies' IT systems and networks, it forgot to require network that backup capability be provided in case of network failure, the Richmond Times-Disptach reported over the weekend.

      I mean really? Requiring redundancy is such a basic requirement that you really have to wonder if the people in VITA even have a brain.

    3. Re:It was EMC storage failure by dbIII · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's such a basic requirement that you would think you would get it for that price. It sounds like using a loophole after being caught out cutting corners to me.

  9. Re:$2.6 billion service contract? by Pojut · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here you go, direct from our local news radio station.

    "Northrop Grumman holds a $2.4 billion, 10-year contract with the Virginia Information Technologies Agency to build, operate and maintain the state's 7-year-old, problem-plagued consolidated computer services bureaucracy. It is the largest single-vendor contract in Virginia history. The partnership has been repeatedly criticized in JLARC studies for poor and tardy delivery of services, cost overruns and system failures."

    These systems are directly integrated into the DMV, as well as the Department of Social Services and Department of Taxation, amongst others.

  10. I first read the headline as by edwebdev · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Northrop Grumman Says 'I'm Sorry' For Virginia IT Outrage"

  11. 3-year-olds know better than that by swschrad · · Score: 2, Insightful

    good thing Northrup Grumman doesn't do anything important, like, say, vital national security support.

    oh, wait... .

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  12. Re:$2.6 billion service contract? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    This kind of thing seems to be a growing trend in government IT. I'm posting anonymously because while I don't think I'm going to say anything that violates an NDA, it's better to be vague and sure.

    The county that I live in recently made a move like this: they fired basically all of their IT staff and replaced them with the lowest bidding consulting company.

    The upside of that from a certain fiscal standpoint is that they've eliminated a bunch of positions with pensions and good (and therefore expensive) benefits. These people have been replaced, in some departments, by the exact same people now subcontracting through the consulting company. This isn't really cheaper -- they won't have additional pension obligations to those people, but they're drawing much higher salaries than before, and obviously the consulting company gets a sizeable cut too.

    In other departments, all the long-term employees have been replaced by new consultants. This is a problem in that, probably the people who had those jobs should have documented their networks and tasks much better, but the fact is, they didn't. The whole memory of those departments has been flushed. Inexperienced people are now trying to figure out how to maintain processes that literally no one who works there knows anything about. It's a disaster and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

    Meanwhile, the county executive is running for governor, touting the above as a great accomplishment. Hey, he shrunk the size of government by eliminating many permanent positions! By the time people realize that, not always, but sometimes, a lifer IT person is worth their pay because of the institutional memory they have of a thousand important things that were never documented, the election will be over.

  13. Re:$2.6 billion service contract? by AB3A · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Mod parent way up. I've seen it in other places too.

    Often when you ask people in the accounting department, they'll say they don't really know what's going on because IT made the system. When you talk to IT, they'll say they don't know because the system was specified by Accounting. The truth is that some smart guys in each department got together and forged some sort of system together. Then the smart guys went on to bigger and better things, while the peons were left with some special voodoo system.

    Now you want to move said voodoo system over to a consulting company. The assumption is that the Accountants know every detail of what the old system did. Well, they don't. But nobody is willing to step forward and say that. So the new consultants come along and gosh, nobody knows what the systems do.

    Then people ponder why it "doesn't work." Sigh.

    This is how shit happens.

    --
    Nearly fifty percent of all graduates come from the bottom half of the class!
  14. Go read Virginia IT's website... by HockeyPuck · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Go see it yourself here.

    On Wednesday, August 25, at approximately 3 p.m., the Commonwealth of Virginia experienced an information technology (IT) infrastructure outage that affected 27 of the Commonwealth's 89 agencies and caused 13 percent of the Commonwealth's file servers to fail. The failure was in the equipment used for data storage, commonly known as a storage area network (SAN). Specifically, the SAN that failed was an EMC DMX-3.

    According to the manufacturer of the storage system, the events that led to the outage appear to be unprecedented. The manufacturer reports that the system and its underlying technology have an exemplary history of reliability, industry-leading data availability of more than 99.999 percent and no similar failure has occurred in more than one billion hours of run time. A root cause analysis of the failure is currently being conducted.

    Anybody else read this like some middle age guy after "finishing a bit too quickly" and telling his , "I swear honey, this the first time this has ever happened to me..."

  15. Apology by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So Virginia taxpayers will continue to get screwed, but Northrop Grumman has now extended a reach-around?

    --
    "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
    --- Jerry Garcia
  16. Why NGC is so FUBAR by MikeRT · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Northrop Grumman was cobbled together over several years from about 1999-2006 from Northrop, Grumman, TRW and several other players. It is so dysfunctional because it is composed of so many competing units that don't operate like a single company. In fact, when I briefly worked for them out of college, most of my coworkers were from TRW and hated the idea of being NGC employees.

  17. My experience as a contractor by dbIII · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Getting charged out at $100/hour while getting paid $10-14/hour was depressing, especially since the contracting company did nothing in that case apart from collect and hand out money (insurance, health care etc was my responsibility). When the client (actually former workplace encumbered by a requirement for layoffs and a hiring freeze) looked as if they would be able to employ me directly the contract company took near criminal steps to poison my relationship with that company. I left after being blamed for a quite few things that happened long before I'd even heard of the place and decided it was easier to work in a different industry.
    Many places screw over both their clients and their employees.