Can NetBooks & Tablets Co-Exist?

bsk_cw writes "According to Computerworld's Serdar Yegulalp, there has been a lot of talk about whether the iPad will take the place of the netbook — or, in fact, whether it will eat into the market share for more mainstream desktop and laptop computers. But, he continues, the iPad has a long way to go before it becomes a netbook killer — if only because it has created a space all its own."

Comments

Well...

[Jorl17]

Can Cars and Motorcycles co-exist? How about motorbikes and bicycles?

How about Laptop and Desktop computers?

This is just silly.

Re:Well...

[afabbro]

NO. THEY CANNOT EXIST TOGETHER!

We need to take this to Thunderdome! Two computing devices enter, one computing device leaves!

Re:Well...

[Yvan256]

What about laptops and netbooks? Is the war over yet?

Re:Well...

[RapmasterT]

agreed. this is the same kind of exhibitionistic editorial masturbation that we get over and over and over from these people. Yes, we get it...you like to see your words in print and didn't have anything really useful to say. fine, but I'm getting sick to shit of it. OMG, two devices with radically different form factors and usage patters might be able to co-exist! who could have predicted that!

Yes.

[Mongoose Disciple]

They occupy different niches (even though there's some overlap) and can coexist. Next question!

Re:Yes.

[jedidiah]

A proper open tablet could pretty much wipe out netbooks.

However, the Tablet du jour is no such thing. It is artificially limited by it's creator.
Therefore until more capable Tablets gain some visibility in the market, netbooks aren't
going anywhere.

People will still need to do things that Apple won't allow.

Re:Yes.

[Abcd1234]

A proper open tablet could pretty much wipe out netbooks.

Yeah, I'm calling bullshit.

I know this isn't a popular opinion here on Slashdot, but guess what? *Most people don't give a shit about "open" or "closed" hardware*. Hell, they probably don't even realize the iPlatform is a closed ecosystem, as that's only evident if you try to develop for the thing.

No, this idiotic meme that "if only they'd open the hardware, they'd destroy everyone!", no matter what "they" is (PS3, NDS, iPlatform, etc), needs to stop. It's so hilariously naive it just makes you look stupid.

Re:Yes.

[kg8484]

I'm going to agree and disagree with your statement. Openness by itself won't do anything. However, openness leads to two things that will help tablets.

First, it opens up the market to competition. While this may not help a company like Apple, Google's Android platform allows new companies to enter the market without having to write the entire software stack. This in turn should drive prices down.

Secondly, an "open" platform allows more things to be done with it. Say some company is willing to sell me a netbook with a detachable keyboard (or a tablet with a clip-on keyboard that swivels), I would be more inclined to purchase that over a traditional netbook. Maybe not everyone, especially if it commands a hefty premium.

The one advantage that netbooks currently have is that they can run Windows and hence all the software that is developed for Windows. Until someone makes a good office suite for Android, I don't see people flocking to tablets over netbooks any time soon.

Re:Yes.

[0123456]

So, what *exactly* are these two, somewhat overlapping niches you are referring to?

To me there are four big differences between the netbook and the Apple i-things:

1. Netbook has a keyboard you can type on, even if adapting to it takes some time.
2. Netbook will run Windows and random Windows software.
3. Netbook generally has better performance and is capable of running a lot of older Windows games (video is different as I believe i-things have hardware H.264 support and the netbook probably doesn't?).
4. The netbook costs half as much.

To me it's more a question of whether you want a small but real keyboard and the ability to run arbitrary software than anything else. If, say, you really want to run Windows for some reason then the i-things are a total non-starter.

So I don't see how anyone can claim that they're interchangeable. Price, lack of keyboard and inability to run my applications mean I wouldn't even consider an i-thingy.

Re:Yes.

[jedidiah]

> I know this isn't a popular opinion here on Slashdot, but guess what? *Most people don't give a shit about "open" or "closed" hardware*

Being "open" simply means that the hardware can do ANYTHING that any other PC can.

Read the data you want.

Access your data freely.

Do trivial things that you're used to doing on a normal PC like PRINTING.

A REAL COMPUTER does anything that anyone can imagine. A glorified iPod does only what Apple allows.

It's amazing that anyone actually defends this nonsense.

Re:Yes.

[jedidiah]

The open-ness of a PC or a netbook is what makes it so useful.

It can do anything that a normal desktop PC can do INCLUDING RUNNING THAT STUPID TETHERING APP for the iPad.

How funny is that? That $300 dirtcheap ultraportable netbook from Walmart can be the thing that I use to "manage" my iPad/iPod/iPhone/iWhatever.

This isn't about running Free Software. This is about doing anything you damn well please with your own property and having thousands of hardware and software vendors waiting to cater to you.

Re:Yes.

[pmontra]

I don't see that there's any niche for a netbook.. unless you really really want a proper laptop and you can't afford one.. because netbooks are just cheap laptops.

I just came back from a one month vacation in Australia. I had my netbook with me and I used it mainly to check mail (thunderbird with local folders backed up almost daily on a usb pen drive with rsync) and to upload pictures and notes of my travel to my website. However I also did some work for a couple of customers of mine who sent me mail about some bugs to fix. I wrote the code, tested it and pushed it into a git repository. I wouldn't be able to do that with an iPad and taking my notebook with me (I got one, I'm that wealthy) would have been very inconvenient as it's twice as large as the netbook and almost three times as heavy. I never ever considered to put it into my backpack.

With this experience in mind I do believe that there is a niche for netbooks. Probably it's going to be a very small one because of what most people's computing needs are, but I'm happy we have cheap netbooks that are powerful enough to work on them (but I concede that I'm more productive with the notebook).

Re:Yes.

[vux984]

If you don't believe me, talk to product owners.

Honest ones will tell you it can be a pretty annoying device.

A friend told me about doing some internet banking on one the other day... halfway through a transaction set up he needed to use a calculator... but opening the calculator app would terminate the internet banking app and he had to re-login and select the accounts, and start the transaction every time he switched between them. For a web banking app its appropriate that it discard its session when you suspend it for obvious reasons...but it was effectively impossible to do any calculations at the same time as a result.

What he really wanted was the two apps in their own window, so he could go back and forth, and have both on the screen at the same time - you know so he could see the source for the numbers rather than remembering them in his head.

Ended up having to get a separate calculator.

He also thought it was stupid that he couldn't easily use it to view other peoples pictures. (e.g. they'd visit, and have a CD/DVD or memory card of vacation or baby pictures, and there was no efficient way of viewing it on the ipad. Importing the photos to iphoto and then syncing them to the ipad was simply idiotic. It was too much work, and he didn't want to import the pictures into his computer.

Definitive answer

[geminidomino]

No.

I mistakenly left my Acer netbook on my bedside table and my old Fujitsu stylistic on my bed when I left for work yesterday. When I got home, all I found on my bed was some half-melted plastic and blown capacitors.

There can be only one...

Summary does not claim invention

[SuperKendall]

Gah. These summaries are getting worse and worse. Tablets have been around for awhile. Apple didn't invent the market with the iPad.

No, they didn't invent the market.

They just figured out how to make a product that would sell into the market.

Tablets simply never sold before the way the iPad is selling.

Apple developed a highly polished version that did well in that market.

Normally I would agree, as that is what Apple does with most things.

But there was nothing in the market to polish. There was nothing in the tablet space like the iPad. It was all PC/Stylus based, kind of the opposite to what the iPad is and why it works.

Was there even a single touch-capible system in there? I don't remember any.

Re:When can I program on it?

[thomasdz]

Yeah... BASIC: I have SIMH running an HP2000F emulation and guess what? You programmed those machines in BASIC sonny.
I also program occasionally in COBOL...wanna make fun of me some more?
I also program in BrainFuck...can I be cool now?

Re:Netbooks kill themselves

[irid77]

The EeePc seems to vary in sturdiness based on the model. My 1000HE is rock-rolid and all-in-all it's the best-built laptop I've ever owned. My parents have the 1101HA and it's much flimsier.. the hinge for the screen is loose and the keyboard is spongy. Also, the graphics are noticeably slow, probably because of the extra pixels in the larger screen. Just have to pick the right one.

Re:Not Only Coexist, But../

[Arkham]

You can actually have your iPad activated at the Apple store, and never connect it to a computer again. Generally, I connect mine once a month or so to back up the apps, books, and documents, but that's it really. It's definitely an area where some improvement is due (and iOS 4.2 in November adds some of this, like wireless printing) though.

This entire premise is flawed. If you need a physical keyboard for lots of data input, an iPad (or any tablet with a touchscreen) isn't ever going to fit the bill. It doesn't matter what you do. Similarly, if you are primarily interested in media consumption (web, video, etc), then the tiny screen on a netbook isn't going to cut it.

Re:Where is the evidence

[Missing.Matter]

Very true. I bought an iPad not fully aware of all the little limitations it has. I was aware there is no flash and no third party apps, but after using the thing for 4 months I've built a long list of shortcomings they just don't tell you about.

At the top of the list is one so frustratingly counterintuitive. I'm studying for a Ph.D., and part of that job includes reading paper after paper. Reading the papers is just great on the iPad, but you can't actually download and save papers from the iPad itself.

To get a paper on my iPad for offline viewing, I actually have to open up my netbook and e-mail the pdf to myself, then save it to iBooks from the mail app. E-mailing is actually the easiest file transfer method between iPad and computer, the alternative being digging out a cable, launching iTunes (kill me now) and syncing (and just sync the PDF if you want to get on with things, instead of waiting for EVERYTHING to sync). There is no wireless file transfer option.

Of course there are other options and apps out there which can hack together this functionality, but the main point is there are hundreds of examples of things like this, where you expect the functionality and it isn't there, necessitating a netbook or other companion PC.

The net effect is, I'm constantly switching between my iPad and netbook, and I'm increasingly wondering why I have an iPad at all. If it weren't for how great it is to read on, I'd probably sell it.

You can do all that

[SuperKendall]

..except you can't save anything

All applications save. And all offer some means to transfer content off the iPad.

print anything

You can print from some apps now and it's a system supported feature in November.

access any random website

Now you really lost me since I can reach any website from the iPad, there are zero browsing restrictions.

or access any random bit of data.

99.9999999% is enough, it turns out.

It's all dependent on this idea that a computer, even an Apple computer is "too much for the masses to deal with".

Critical refinement of your statement - normal computers are too much for most people to MAINTAIN. Come on, having helped friends and family with computers, you honestly have any doubt that is the case?

The Mac used to be the proposed solution to all of normal consumer's PC difficulties.

The Mac was the hardest computer to use - except for all the others. I guess it makes sense they figured out something even less hard, since they were always at the forefront of computers that were easier to maintain and use.

There's no market inertia or vendor lock associated with it that Apple can exploit.

100% correct which is what makes the dominance they enjoy purely a result of building a good product people enjoy and not market control.

The iPad doesn't need to be castrated despite the protestations of fanboys.

The iPad is not that constrained despite the assertions of the Haters.

You got your first four facts totally wrong, I guess it follows you wouldn't understand platform constraints either.