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Tap Tech Brings Touch To Dumb Phones

Posted by timothy on from the now-that's-clever dept.

nk497 writes "A Cambridge-based firm has come up with a way to bring touch interfaces to phones without touchscreens. According to TouchDevice, the system uses the microphone to turn any surface on a handset into a touch-sensitive input panel by analysing sound signatures. 'For example, where icons are displayed on a non-touch screen display, you could tap on there and it would activate the application,' said founder Mike Bradley. TouchDevice believes there are two markets for the technology: firstly to augment input potential in touchcreen smartphones, and secondly as a way of adding touch to 'dumb' displays. The system should be making its way into devices by early next year."

70 comments

  1. A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by Kenja · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Cant wait to see the 10$ iPhony cell phones that use this rather then an actual touch screen.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by geekoid · · Score: 0, Troll

      Who cars if it works as well and is cheaper? If it does work as well and is cheaper, expect to see Apple adopt it.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by Anomalyx · · Score: 1, Funny

      If it doesn't work as well and is more expensive, expect to see Apple adopt it.

      Fixed that for ya

      Hey, it's the same thing they did with the antenna...

      --
      No, there is no "-1 I'LL NEVER ADMIT BEING WRONG!!!" mod.
    3. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by pwnies · · Score: 1

      Wont happen - while you can detect a touch action, you can't place the location of that touch. So if you were to have a dialer application, you could distinguish a button press but not which button it actually was. Even for knockoffs this is unacceptable.

    4. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by Jurily · · Score: 4, Funny

      Cant wait to see the 10$ iPhony cell phones that use this rather then an actual touch screen.

      Could we just let the whole touchscreen idea die instead? Please?

    5. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by lalena · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Companies (Elo Acustic Pulse Recognition) are already using this technology. They can detect the location of the touch, and they do an OK job with finger drag. They cannot detect when you take your finger off the surface.
      If these limitations are OK, they you get a cheap touch screen that lets you use a scratch resistant glass surface.

    6. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by shri · · Score: 2, Funny

      And I cant wait to see what happens to those iPhonys at a Stomp concert. :)

    7. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by jo42 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Who cares if it works as well and is cheaper?

      Because it don't work worth a shite. Learn about technology and how it works before you spout such idiocy.

    8. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So which part of the word "if" didn't you understand, sparky?

    9. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by derGoldstein · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Posts about modding is a call to be modded down, but here I go anyway:
      That was not Flaimbait. If you go around modding any post that pokes fun at a brand as "Flaimbait", you'll turn Slashdot comment threads into humorless, boring lists of generic observations. You may not agree with the logic of the post, but as the popular sig goes -- "there's no -1 'disagree' mod". Maybe there was some intention of "bating flame", but implying that Apple's response to the antenna problem was, in part, motivated by financial considerations, isn't the type of inflammatory content that the "Flamebait" mod was intended for.

      --
      Entomologically speaking, the spider is not a bug, it's a feature.
    10. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by derGoldstein · · Score: 1

      Yes, but they sell you the microphone as well. I haven't gone through the specs, but I'm assuming there's more than one microphone in that system, and they're of a higher quality than what you'd find in a phone. Cell/smartphones aren't known for quality microphones, and at a certain price point the microphone itself (if it *is* high quality) will make the approach too expensive. I'm also skeptical of both the accuracy and resolution of the location information that they do manage to get out of a single microphone, of any quality.

      --
      Entomologically speaking, the spider is not a bug, it's a feature.
    11. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it won't work as well. It might work well enough for some people, but it most certainly will not work the same.

    12. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously. When I bought my last phone, I specifically looked for one without a touchscreen. I just find them a poor input method and annoying to use.

      It's funny how this article tries to paint any non-touchscreen phone as "dumb". My phone calls, texts, browses, plays music/video/games and runs Linux. It has better build quality than an iPhone, has wifi, bluetooth, a good 5MP camera (comparable to an average digital camera) and a fast CPU, but has no touchscreen. How is that not considered a smartphone?

    13. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by Derf+the · · Score: 1

      Make & model or it didn't happen.

      --
      No. You can't look at my Sig; it's mine, and I'm not showing you.
    14. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by emj · · Score: 1

      I tried this on Rockbox devices and it seemed to work I never did positioning but I tapping was easy. If you listen to the sounds that are recorded when you touch different parts of the device you can hear the difference between four extreme points on the device. The theory behind it is a bit beyond my allotted skill/time though.

    15. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why just phones? I'd like this tech on my netbook. I hope it's open source; I'd install it on my netbook - at least if it works better than the speech recognition. But it seems it may have the same drawback, which is any sound confuses the speech engine. I'll bet this won't work anywhere there are percussive sounds; it has to be pretty damned quiet for the speech engine to work.

      --
      Free Martian Whores!
    16. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by plumby · · Score: 1

      Why? For most things, it's a far better input method than anything else out there.

    17. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by anguirus.x · · Score: 1

      What if I'm trying to use it at the ball game? What about in the food court? In other words, what are the limitations introduced by background noise?

    18. Re:A boon for the touch phone knock off makers. by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      Wait until you get back to your mom's basement where there is no background noise!

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
  2. Doomed to fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Too much ambient noise for many.

  3. Sounds flakey by Moof123 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Works great, unless:

    Your in a loud room.
    Your tap is outside "normal" strength range
    You are wearing gloves.
    You tap with your fingernail, pen, etc

    Just sounds like a hack to me, maybe Ok for Yes/No interactions, but I thought that was what the normal buttons are for...

    1. Re:Sounds flakey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Note that many of these scenarios don't work for the iPhone touch screen either (fingernail, pen, and gloves all fail).

      But I agree it sounds flaky.

    2. Re:Sounds flakey by geekoid · · Score: 1

      What is ti with people like you? you don't know anything about it, but that doesn't top you from listing a bunch of made up issues.

      "Your in a loud room." Yep it works in a load room.

      "Your tap is outside "normal" strength range"
      WTH does that even mean. outside what range? screen range? sound volume?

      "You are wearing gloves." maybe it does.

      "You tap with your fingernail, pen, etc" - yes it does work under those conditions.

      http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/touchdevice-software-makes-dumb-phones-touch-sensitive-50000706/
      and
      http://www.inputdynamics.com/Products.html

      Plus it can be used anywhere on the phone. Good luck operating your iPhone touch screen from the back.

      Sure, it might turn out to be crap, but that's doesn't give your point any merits on the known facts. And if it does turn out your right, it will just be th sharpshooter fallacy. Unless you want to back up your claim with actual facts?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Sounds flakey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called skepticism. When you've seen enough "good ideas" fail in the real world, you start to see through the hype.

    4. Re:Sounds flakey by vux984 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are wearing gloves.
      You tap with your fingernail, pen, etc

      er... these also don't even work on state of the art touch devices -- androids / iphones / blackberries. Go ahead... try using your iphone with mittens on, or tap one with your fingernail.

      So I guess modern smartphones are just a hack to you?

    5. Re:Sounds flakey by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      "Sure, it might turn out to be crap, but that's doesn't give your point any merits on the known facts. "

      Maybe you should read the articles you're linking to:
      http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/touchdevice-software-makes-dumb-phones-touch-sensitive-50000706/
      "InputDynamics says the software can recognise a tap anywhere on a phone's surface to with 1cm square. "

      1 cm might not sound like a lot, but when you're talking about ~4" diagonal screen and using your finger being off by 0.4 inches is huge.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    6. Re:Sounds flakey by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      If tapping with a fingernail does not work, then most likely using a stylus won't work either. Which means that the screen will always be full of fingerprints and smudges, unless I wash my hands every time I want to do something with the phone.

      I have a Psion Series 5 PDA, made in 1997 and it works with a stylus. Interesting how people in 1997 knew that fingerprints on the screen = bad, but now they don't.

      OK, I'm keeping my Nokia N93 (keypad ftw).

    7. Re:Sounds flakey by derGoldstein · · Score: 1

      Your in a loud room.
      Your tap is outside "normal" strength range

      I was expecting to see grammar nazis on the case, but since they seem to be on a break, I'll cover this:
      YOU'RE == YOU ARE && YOU'RE != YOUR.

      --
      Entomologically speaking, the spider is not a bug, it's a feature.
    8. Re:Sounds flakey by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      Plus it can be used anywhere on the phone. Good luck operating your iPhone touch screen from the back.

      Great! I've always wanted to dial the wrong number!

    9. Re:Sounds flakey by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      I never notice smudges on my iPhone unless the screen is turned off. It's a non issue.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    10. Re:Sounds flakey by dandart · · Score: 1

      Haven't you heard of GlovePod? Or perhaps... resistive touchscreens, like the DS?

    11. Re:Sounds flakey by ooshna · · Score: 1

      Isn't being a grammar Nazi with the name Goldstein like being a living oxymoron?

    12. Re:Sounds flakey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wiping down the screen when you're done with it is much less annoying than not being able to use your phone until you've pulled out the stylus.

    13. Re:Sounds flakey by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      Except that you can use the phone even without the stylus, just that you will leave smudges and fingerprints. So with the Psion Series 5 I had a choice - use a stylus or some other pointed plastic object or just use my fingernail or finger and leave residue on the screen.

      Psion also had another thing right - the device uses AA batteries, which can be rechargeable or primary. So if the batteries discharged while I was away from an outlet I could just buy some cheap primary ones. Too bad it was not possible to recharge the batteries while they were in the device, but it's much better than my phone or new PDAs have - expensive proprietary batteries.

  4. Sounds like a dump idea at first... by Locke2005 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But with multiple microphones, sounds will come in out of phase. It should be possible to compute the delay time of the signal coming in on each microphone, which when combined with knowledge of the speed of sound should allow it triangulate the position of the tap. Yes, with a single microphone, this would be an abhorrent kludge. With multiple microphones, it works like the audio gunshot detection systems already in use in some cities.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:Sounds like a dump idea at first... by adolf · · Score: 3, Informative

      TFA talks about doing this with exactly one pre-existing microphone, which is rather unique.

      Triangulating touch position using multiple "microphones" (in this case, peizoelectric widgets mounted to the glass surface, but the concept is the same) has been done before, and isn't particularly new. (More info and whitepaper.)

      --
      Kid-proof tablet..
    2. Re:Sounds like a dump idea at first... by feedayeen · · Score: 1

      But with multiple microphones, sounds will come in out of phase. It should be possible to compute the delay time of the signal coming in on each microphone, which when combined with knowledge of the speed of sound should allow it triangulate the position of the tap. Yes, with a single microphone, this would be an abhorrent kludge. With multiple microphones, it works like the audio gunshot detection systems already in use in some cities.

      Sound can travel in excess of 500m/s while it is going though solids. To compute the position to within 1mm, the microphone will need to have a precision of 1/500,000th of a second. Audio quality in commercial microphones tends to peak at a few KHz so this is still impossible.

    3. Re:Sounds like a dump idea at first... by malignant_minded · · Score: 1

      I'm sure it works great as the subway passes by

    4. Re:Sounds like a dump idea at first... by treeves · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I suspect it doesn't use time delays, but just the difference in the audio spectra between tapping in the corner close to the mic, tapping in the middle, and tapping in the opposite corner. Different frequencies will resonate and/or be attenuated depending on where you tap. Have you ever played a guitar and noticed how the sound (timbre) changes depending on whether you pluck the string over the neck, over the sound hole, or close to the bridge? Same idea here, I imagine, just using a cell phone as the resonator instead of a guitar.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    5. Re:Sounds like a dump idea at first... by derGoldstein · · Score: 1

      TFA talks about doing this with exactly one pre-existing microphone

      Which makes me doubt the idea. Are all microphones in smartphones created equal? Will the ones installed in most devices be good enough for the job? Microphones "degrade" (they deform slowly) with use -- can you recalibrate the software, and how often will you need to do so? After filtering out all of the noise, and then attempting to infer the touch location, will you have any CPU power left to actually perform the task that the touch was intended to do (and what about on devices with less computing power)?

      To many variables. Pics or it didn't happen.

      --
      Entomologically speaking, the spider is not a bug, it's a feature.
    6. Re:Sounds like a dump idea at first... by quickOnTheUptake · · Score: 1
      You are right. Using sound delay would be retarded and require several mics.
      Oh and it's in the 3rd paragraph of TFA:

      “What we're doing is using the existing microphone to detect sounds - the different areas of a phone have a unique sound signature,” said Mike Bradley, founder of TouchDevice.

      GP is talking out his ass.

      --
      Mod points: Guaranteed to remove your sense of humor.
      Side effects may include gullibility and temporary retardation
    7. Re:Sounds like a dump idea at first... by quickOnTheUptake · · Score: 1

      Okay, take back the last bit. I need to pay more attention to context.

      --
      Mod points: Guaranteed to remove your sense of humor.
      Side effects may include gullibility and temporary retardation
    8. Re:Sounds like a dump idea at first... by rvw · · Score: 1

      TFA talks about doing this with exactly one pre-existing microphone

      Which makes me doubt the idea. Are all microphones in smartphones created equal? Will the ones installed in most devices be good enough for the job? Microphones "degrade" (they deform slowly) with use -- can you recalibrate the software, and how often will you need to do so? After filtering out all of the noise, and then attempting to infer the touch location, will you have any CPU power left to actually perform the task that the touch was intended to do (and what about on devices with less computing power)?

      Maybe the tapping makes a different sound based on where you tap. So the right side of the screen would sound different than the left. And of course the device would need a teaching system, like with voice recognition. You cannot expect that a plastic Samsung sounds the same as a aluminium Nokia.

    9. Re:Sounds like a dump idea at first... by adolf · · Score: 1

      Maybe you two should go read TFA. And then, maybe, you wouldn't have so much uncertainty about what is being claimed to have been accomplished.

      --
      Kid-proof tablet..
  5. New excuse for drunk-dialing your ex... by Locke2005 · · Score: 3, Funny

    "I dropped my phone, and the microphone-based touch detection interpreted as calling your number!"

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  6. directional speaker + clever tapping = by by+(1706743) · · Score: 1

    someone getting goatse'd from across the room. Ouch.

  7. Other aplications by He+who+knows · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It seems like this can be aplied to computer moniters quite easilly. I would like a cheap touch screen laptop.

    1. Re:Other aplications by pastyM · · Score: 1

      yeah i would love to see some open source project bring this to PC/Laptops

    2. Re:Other aplications by rm999 · · Score: 1

      Touch screens are actually pretty cheap. The iphone's is 10 dollars, but I would imagine you could get a larger, less precise one for the same price or cheaper. Even the 35 dollar Indian tablet has a touch screen.

  8. neat but no. by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

    last thing I want to do, if I have to go back to a dumb phone, is to get into a heated argument and have it detect me screaming as a sign to hang up.

    Yeah, but, no.

    --
    Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    1. Re:neat but no. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      how about if it detects you screaming it dials your psychiatrist?

      If you are screaming in an argument, then you have already lost.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:neat but no. by by+(1706743) · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you are screaming in an argument, then you have already lost.

      NOT TRUE!!! SCREAMING IN AN ARGUMENT MAKES YOU MORE RIGHT!!!

      (This bit down here is to appease /.'s filters, as it thinks I'm yelling...no sense of humor at all.)

    3. Re:neat but no. by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      I find your name fascinating.

    4. Re:neat but no. by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      NOT TRUE!!! SCREAMING IN AN ARGUMENT MAKES YOU MORE RIGHT!!!

      <Morbo> ARGUMENTS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

      (This bit down here is to appease /.'s filters, as it thinks I'm yelling...no sense of humor at all.)

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  9. I should have waited... by gsarig · · Score: 2, Funny

    2 weeks ago I said goodbye to my 4 year old Sony Ericcsson K750i, and bought an iPhone... If I knew about that device, I would have waited... :P

  10. The iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    already has one, how much more stupid can a phone get??

  11. Non-touch != dumbphone by Steve+Max · · Score: 1

    Why do people keep making this association? Most smartphones out there are non-touch Symbian phones, and many touchscreen phones are as dumb as it gets.

  12. Simple question by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't a dumb phone be pretty useless?

    Almost as bad as a deaf phone.

    1. Re:Simple question by tacarat · · Score: 1

      Better a dumb phone than a dumb phoner.

      --
      "Common sense will be the death of us all"
    2. Re:Simple question by gsgriffin · · Score: 1

      One less button...no mute needed.

      --
      jsut athnoer menagiensls ltitle psrhae for you to dcoede. Why do we wtsae our tmie dnoig tihs?
  13. The original research by kescom · · Score: 1

    At CMU: http://www.chrisharrison.net/projects/skinput/

    1. Re:The original research by kescom · · Score: 1

      Whoops. http://www.chrisharrison.net/projects/scratchinput/index.html

  14. The market for this? by billsayswow · · Score: 1

    How many phones out there are capable of integrating this into their firmware, download the software to begin with, yet don't have touchscreens, all while still being in service. I just don't see any situation where a phone doesn't have a touch screen, yet would be enhanced by one. Aside from maybe older keyboard based phones, like earlier Blackberries... but that still leaves the question of getting it in and having it be worthwhile.

    This says nothing, of course, about the user themselves. Even if you could get it implemented, most people who don't have a touchscreen don't really want one, or are planning on getting a new phone soon enough.

    Of course, there still will be plenty of people who this won't help at all who will get this anyways. It will be like 3D movies. Not everything was meant to be in 3D, but people will still go to the 3D showing by the truckload.

  15. Not really dumb by PPH · · Score: 1

    If a phone is equipped with the hardware and firmware to detect taps and touches on the screen, its not dumb. Its just a touch screen with different technology.

    'Dumb' would be a phone with a dial on it. You kids remember dials, don't you? That's what you hear clicking '9-1-1' every time you step on my lawn!

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  16. Ramifications by TheCouchPotatoFamine · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Lets think this through, using some out there guessing as to what this is/can do: Microphones on the inside of the case don't require an external sound port, and can actually be conducted onto the plastic case itself. Good: The magnitude of a direct finger tap opposed to an external click or thump filters out error from the environment. Good: Multi touch may not be perfectly possible with two mics but it is using three mics; gives you triangulation, makes simultaneous events seperable. Anyone want to make the case two mics is practical for that? Bad: Can't detect dragging. Good: cell phones are an exception to this, but music players and other digital devices can now be waterproof easily, if induction charging and wifi are used so that a simple gasket can be used to seal it What did I miss?

    --
    CS majors know the time/space tradeoff, but they never get taught the 3rd, crucial, tradeoff of the set: comprehension!
  17. What about combination with other tech? by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

    I'm sure this could be useful for making, say, crappy capacitive screens like the ones on the iPhone (yeah, I said it! :p) and Android phones more accurate... not just as a standalone technology.

  18. Same as Carnegie Mellon invention from 2008? by Moskit · · Score: 1

    Apparently it is the same concept as covered two years ago in this article:
    http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/11/15/175246

    I wonder if university had any patent and sold it to this company, or it was a parallel invention.

  19. Ambient noise? by ksandom · · Score: 1

    I'm curious how well it works in ambient noise. From the looks of the comments I've read here, quite possibly well...

    It's also interesting to note that a number of users have mentioned that if it uses multiple microphones then_____. The article talks of using one, and using a "set of signatures". It's basically working by listening to how the tap sounds on one part of the phone compared to another part. While the structure of the shell will play a small role in this, mostly it will be influenced by the electronics inside the phone since they are generally not symetrical. However, the caseings could be specifically made to optimise the process. Say by having I think slanted layer of air in the LCD protector, or putting extra knobs of plastic inside the casing.

    --
    Funnyhacks - Wierd, unusual, and fun hacks
  20. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion