HDCP Master Key Revealed

solafide writes "The HDCP Master Key has allegedly been revealed. If true, this information will allow anyone to create their own source or sink keys, essentially making HDCP useless for content protection permanently. No word yet on how it was obtained, but if true, this is a great day for content freedom around the world!"

Comments

Hooray for freedom

[fnj]

And hooray for common sense. You knew it was hopeless.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[bieber]

I wouldn't say hooray for freedom. If this is a win for freedom, it's only in the sense of breaking out of jail for as long as it takes them to catch you and toss you back in. The answer isn't to keep cracking these "protection" schemes, it's to stop buying into them at all until the companies behind them realize that customers are tired of paying for hardware that actively works against their interests. There seems to be a really dominant mentality among people in the know about these things that it's alright to keep supporting this nonsense monetarily because we'll always find a way to break it. That's all fine and dandy for now, but what happens when they start to get really serious about "protecting their content," and start introducing devices that can't be so easily broken?

Re:Hooray for freedom

[JanneM]

"Because it's always good to make it easier to break the law and steal movies."

Most places explicitly allow backups and format shifting, in addition to excerpting and other fair use exceptions. All of which now become possible where it was not before. No stealing or anything immoral involved.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[jamesh]

he more permanent freedom is a matter of time. At some point, lawmakers will be from the generation that also posts on forums, that downloaded mp3's when they were younger (or still do), and that watched 2 or 3 movies illegally when they were students.

I'm from that generation, more or less, and still think it's pretty rude to download stuff that you didn't pay for. I'm against supporting broken business models that don't let you store the media in the format that's most useful to you (eg on a media center) but that still doesn't mean that you get to download stuff illegally.

The smart thing to do would be to concentrate less on prevention - people are always going to copy stuff no matter what - and focus more on detection. Find the people who are downloading your stuff and get them, rather than making stuff harder for the rest of us.

And it doesn't matter what generation you are from. There will always be someone who's willing to take the media empires money to tow their agenda through the lawmaking process.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[ArsenneLupin]

At some point, lawmakers will be from the generation that also posts on forums, that downloaded mp3's when they were younger (or still do), and that watched 2 or 3 movies illegally when they were students.

Current lawmakers all smoked dope when they were students. That doesn't mean that they are all in favor of legalizing marihuana.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[Mr. Slippery]

A DVD is a tangible good, no different than a book.

Have they implemented a region scheme for books? Can a book be rendered illegible by a scratch? Is there some scheme in place to prevent you from quoting an except from a book verbatim?

Re:Hooray for freedom

[The Grassy Knoll]

At some point, lawmakers will be from the generation that []

Is this why marijuana is now legal in most western countries, the lawmakers being from the generation that first started widely using it...?

.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[MightyYar]

Right, and if I steal an actual DVD, I've stolen a tangible good. Whomever I steal it from will have to cope with a tangible loss. I think what we are talking about is making an unauthorized copy, which may or may not affect the income of the person who holds the government rights to the work.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[supersloshy]

The answer isn't to keep cracking these "protection" schemes, it's to stop buying into them at all until the companies behind them realize that customers are tired of paying for hardware that actively works against their interests.

I agree with your post except for this sentence. The problem with that argument is that most people, quite frankly and quite unfortunately, don't care whether or not something has "DRM or GPL or whatever crap you're trying to convince me to have or not have" (in the paraphrased words of everyone else). Most people don't care about region-lockout, SecuROM-style DRM, HDCP or any of that so long as it "works" for the time being. Most people, instead of caring whether or not their media will play on some out-there FOSS player, just buy whatever player can so they can watch it right then without caring or even thinking about whether or not that DRM will be around long enough for them to not have to re-buy all of their media. I'm almost as anti-DRM as you can get, and it's the depressing truth from what I've found.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[mcvos]

A DVD is a tangible good, no different than a book.

But DRM doesn't prevent anyone from shoplifting DVDs.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[somersault]

I think your problem here should be with people who choose to buy pirated copies of movies, not the technology that allows for copying. Might as well make pen and paper illegal if you want to go down that route. Quit whining.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[IndustrialComplex]

At some point, lawmakers will be from the generation that also posts on forums,

Same generation, different culture.

The Democrat looks at the Republican and wonders how he could believe that. The New Yorker takes a look at the rural farmer and wonders why he would subject himself to that sort of life. The rural citizen wonders how anyone could deal with so much noise. And DC elects Marion Barry. Again.

But if you want the real reason: The people who care about a subject will get their way. Just because some people would vote for/against an issue doesn't mean that they actually care enough about that issue to do anything about it.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[jedidiah]

> A DVD is a tangible good, no different than a book.

Yes it is. I should be able to dispose of that "tangible good" in any manner as I see fit as the owner of that good.

That includes copying it for my own use.

MY individual property rights should not be nullified for the benefit of some corporation or for the sake of some non-right.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[Kjella]

People want content, the hardware is just a means to that end. As long as the copyright holder can exclusively decide what DRM will be applied you have no possibility to vote with your wallet short of doing completely without it. Also it's practically impossible to avoid DRM-capable hardware, 99% of all computers today have a DVD drive and thus pay a CSS license and thus support DRM. All graphics cards from Intel, AMD and nVidia support HDCP. Same with any modern TV or monitor.

The only way people win is when DRM is broken, but they are committed to continue selling it. That is the only reason you can still buy DVDs, otherwise they would have moved to DVD 2.0 with new and better DRM long ago. I just hope the combined mass of cable boxes, TVs, recievers, graphics cards, monitors and so on now is big enough they will not be able to implement a new standard. That is how DRM dies, not trying to make them go for a DRM free platform. That we already know they won't.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[jedidiah]

> or any of that so long as it "works" for the time being

Well. That's the problem with all of this nonsense.

IT DOESN'T and it's only getting worse.

The n00bs won't care why something breaks. They will just get upset when it
does and blame the most convenient target available. This may be the studios
or the hardware vendor depending on the individual.

However, they won't need to understand the situation to lay blame.

Although Big Content might get lucky and get away with stuff like Microsoft did.

No. DRM makes it much more likely that it won't "just work".

The whole "need to patch BD player to play new movie" nonsense is one of the reasons I won't touch that technology yet.

As geeky as I am, I just don't believe that a consumer appliance should be in constant need of patches.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[flink]

The more permanent freedom is a matter of time. At some point, lawmakers will be from the generation that also posts on forums, that downloaded mp3's when they were younger (or still do), and that watched 2 or 3 movies illegally when they were students.

Right, because all those hippies from the baby boomer generation that are in power now have shutdown the military, ended the war on drugs, and prevented racial discrimination in all its forms. Or more likely, 99% of those who make it into power had to sell most of their ideals to the highest bidder or never had any in the first place.

The law makers we have in 20 years will be the same assholes we have now with different faces. Real change comes when the people force the government to take action, not the other way around.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[Haffner]

I think most of slashdot is pretty clear on the fact that it's against the law - the general consensus here though is that the law is wrong.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[L4t3r4lu5]

Get this through your head: Centralised distribution networks cost lots to host and run. How they go about monetising P2P isn't my concern. It does, however, take all of the heartache of high cost hosting out of this.

And the cost of creating content is negligible, as Jamendo is proof of. You can achieve near-studio quality with a Powerbook and a lot of patience. Talent doesn't cost a thing, but it can still make you a lot of money.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[Xiaran]

Why do you need lots of servers in data centres for a P2P distribution network?

Re:Hooray for freedom

[icebraining]

The smart thing to do would be to concentrate less on prevention - people are always going to copy stuff no matter what - and focus more on detection. Find the people who are downloading your stuff and get them, rather than making stuff harder for the rest of us.

And how do you propose to implement such "protection" without the constant privacy violations (ISP-wide deep packet inspection, loss of anonymity, etc) we've been hearing about?

While I can perfectly understand that it's "rude to download stuff that you didn't pay for", I don't see any means of prevention/detection that don't violate more important rights.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[mikeabbott420]

Americas vast prison system is also a huge industry with a vested interest in marijuana hysteria.
I suspect the alcohol industry may see it as a threat as well. In my experience people who smoke weed abuse alcohol less and that could cause a loss of revenue. Thus the alcohol industry will feed hysteria because they know it is false.

Re:Hooray for freedom

[StuartHankins]

Don't lump "servers in a data center" in with a physical distribution network. The cost of maintaining servers and their associated HR costs is very small in comparison [to all the other costs], and getting smaller. If I can rent a movie for $1 at any RedBox or BlockBuster Express, I expect it to be even less by downloading it directly. And in some cases (NetFlix, Hulu) it IS cheaper.

The old-style physical content distribution model is dead.

And as far as content creation costs go, it appears a lot of popular / decent movies were created without huge budgets. More and more people are creating their own movies on a shoestring. The tables are tipping from "we provide what we want you to see" to amateur-provided content, and guess who doesn't like it? <tiny violins play softly>

yup

[Pojut]

Further proof that DRM is, for all intents and purposes, completely useless other than pissing off "honest" consumers.

Content Freedom?

[wilsone8]

Why is I when I read "content freedom", I have a feeling you mean your ability to copy movies from torrent and avoid having to pay anyone for the huge investment and hard work they put into making movies. Sure, that's not what everyone will use it for, but it seems like most will. That's not something to cheer about in my book, but to each his own.

Re:Content Freedom?

[Cyberax]

How come movie industry hasn't died after the invention of VHS tapes?

Re:Content Freedom?

[ledow]

Because, as in all things, most people are honest.

If I want a movie, I buy it. That might mean buying it second-hand, or buying it from a friend, but I don't do the shady deals in pubs with strangers. Most people are like me, and most people actually pay for stuff. VCR's and DVD-R's are, of course, used for piracy - because they are recording devices. But if you didn't have those, people have camcorders, or webcams, or any one of a million and one recording devices.

The recording device, or the technology built into any recorded media, does not stop anything, at all, ever, except genuine, honest customers doing something quite reasonable. Anyone who wants an illegal copy can get one in any one of a million different ways. Hell, the early DVD rippers basically screenshotted the screen of a DVD player so many times a second and recorded the audio. It's not hard at all, because of the "analog hole". But the only people who bother to go to that amount of effort are established pirates and those who genuinely believe they are doing something quite reasonable and should be allowed to do it.

Despite popular opinion, that's NOT the majority of people.

Re:Content Freedom?

[size1one]

A 2-pass 1080p x264 rip+encode takes much longer than the runtime of the movie, unless you have a very nice computer. You could rent any movie you wanted from a video store. but those things are irrelevant, the movie industry hasn't died. It's making as much money as ever.

Monetization != bulletproof protection

[Bruce Perens]

Monetize your content all you want. Prosecute illegal distribution. Just let me play it with my own device and software.

Re:Monetization != bulletproof protection

[jedidiah]

The MAFIAA/RIAA doesn't prosecute illegal distribution.

They use grossly inappropriate laws intended for professional pirates on housewives.

They bully people with barratry suits.

The seem to ignore the real commercial pirates that might actually be "stealing" paying customers from the industry.

Instead they engage in the sort of thing they tell you to avoid the first day of law school (suing non-solvent parties).

Re:So can someone answer this:

[jeffmeden]

There are plenty of picture-perfect copies of digital media out there already, that's the bitterly ironic thing about DRM as it sits today; the people just trying to play by the rules are getting stuck buying more expensive, less compatible equipment while the pirates use software techniques to get whatever content they want, however they want it, with relative ease.

If HDCP didn't exist, there would still be legal battles over what kind of hardware was legal to sell (like bluray copiers, "open" DVRs, etc). If it were to go away tomorrow, the possible upside would be more software tools available to do things like media backups, software DVR of "protected" content, and more choices when it comes to what kind of TV/monitor you can use with a media source like a bluray player or cable box. Again, ironically, I wouldn't expect genuine piracy to be helped at all by this, and by and large people buying gear off the shelf at Best Buy will never know what happened.

The viewpoint from two worlds

[Bruce Perens]

I paid for my home with my share of Pixar's IPO. And I'm an Open Source evangelist. So, I'm in both worlds where this is concerned.

What I think is fair is for infringing redistribution of copyrighted content to be prosecuted as necessary. You really don't have the right to give all of the internet a copy of that Hannah Montana song. But when I have paid or done whatever is appropriate to gain the right to view that media on my LG TV, I should have the right to view it on my Linux system too.

So, basically I am for content creators having the right to monetize their work and against having an electronic cop in my TV room. And I'm against having Free Software locked out of being a player.

I hope the key is real and that it's really this simple. I am not equipped to test it today but I'm sure someone here is.

Hell, yes, hooray for freedom!

[KingSkippus]

Because it's always good to make it easier to break the law and steal movies.

No, because it makes it easier for you to use your content that you paid for with your hard-earned cash the way you want to instead of how some third party who doesn't have your best interest at heart (and who only wants to get their greedy fingers on the aforementioned hard-earned cash, whether they've earned it or not) would like to make you pay for it over and over for making personal copies, displaying on alternate devices, etc.

The ability to infringe copyright is simply a side effect. Yes, some people may use it for that purpose. I won't.

When they invented the car, are you the type that sarcastically would have said, "Because it's always good to make it easier to to get away after robbing a bank. What other law-breaking things can we invent? Maybe someone should add sound to our good ol' silent films so that people can break the law by singing copyrighted songs."

Re:So can someone answer this:

[Vertana]

If you hooked your HTPC to your non-HDCP compliant display, you could possibly modify your device driver to decode the HDCP encryption and be able to view content at full 1080p on your non-HDCP compliant display. Alternatively, someone might be able to implement it in hardware and provide a cheap device to lay in between your device and non-HDCP display to decode the stream on the fly. All of this... just so people can watch content at full HD on the monitor they legally paid for.

Re:there is no more excuse to steal movies

[pyite]

only excuse you may have is that you're outside the USA and want US content

Or if I want to use it under my terms and my choice of file format. On my choice of device. Using my choice of "unsupported" operating system.

It's people like you who let us get into this sort of situation in the first place.

HDCP really has no legit reason to exist

[Sycraft-fu]

As you say, there are two separate issues, the issue of respecting copyright and the issue of doing what you want with your devices. Well HDCP does nothing to stop copyright infringement. The pirates just nab a copy earlier in the chain, just rip the disc. Sometimes they do it later in the chain, just record a movie in a theater. Either way the fact that they can't nab a signal from the wire doesn't matter at all, they don't even try.

What this does do is prevent legit uses. I really want to build a HD DVR for my living room. I don't want the one the cable company sells. Not only do you pay a monthly charge, but I don't care for its features or its tiny drive. I want to build my own. The capture card I want is already on the market, the Blackmagic Intensity. Expensive, but worth it. ...

Except HDCP stops all that from working.

So I could go and just download the content online, any and every thing I could want is out there, free for the taking. I cannot legitimately just record it off my expensive ($80/month currently) cable TV connection.

I'm very fed up with copy protection these days because this is what is happening. It isn't protecting anything, it is hurting normal users. It is so overbearing that it interferes with normal usage, and still it does nothing to stop infringement.

Another thing, along those lines, is I can't play Blu-ray movies on my PC. I have a BD-RW drive, 1920x1200 monitor and HDMI soundcard out to a massive home theater system. Seems like the tech is there. However because of the way my system works, the display output is mirrored, one copy via DVI to the screen, the other via HDMI to the soundcard, since it need a video signal to get clock from to send its sound. All devices HDCP enabled, but Blu-ray disallows playback in the event of a mirrored screen.

They've done a great job of protecting me from myself, but nothing to stop me from downloading a program and ripping and uploading their movies, if I so chose.

Blu Ray: Now Ready for the Living Room?

[Blue Stone]

It has other uses too: dissuading casual pirates from ever jumping ship and buying into the medium.

A friend of mine couldn't play a couple of Blu Ray discs he'd bought because of various compatibilty issues to do with updated keys or whatever. It convinced me that Blu Ray just wasn't ready for the living room. Why would I want to give these fools my money when it results in a crapshoot? No Blu Ray player for me, no discs either. I decided to spend my money on something that's not so flaky.