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Stallman Crashes Talk, Fights 'War On Sharing'

schliz writes "Free software activist Richard Stallman has called for the end of the 'war on sharing' at the World Computer Congress in Brisbane, Australia. He criticized surveillance, censorship, restrictive data formats, and software-as-a-service in a keynote presentation, and asserted that digital society had to be 'free' in order to be a benefit, and not an attack. Earlier in the conference, Stallman had briefly interrupted a European Patent Office presentation with a placard that said: 'Don't get caught in software patent thickets.' He told journalists that the Patent Office was 'here to campaign in favor of software patents in Australia,' arguing that 'there's no problem that requires a solution with anything like software patents.'"

28 of 309 comments (clear)

  1. I don't care what anyone says by rolfwind · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd prefer Stallman's outspoken extremism vs the quiet extremism that corporations would place us under if no one spoke up.

    1. Re:I don't care what anyone says by koterica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I always prefer the extremists on my side to the extremists on the other side too.

    2. Re:I don't care what anyone says by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think anyone has any issues with Stallman sharing his own work voluntarily - I think some people draw the line at stunts like this where he calls for universal adherence to his third and fourth 'freedoms' (to distribute the software; and to modify and distribute modified copies of the code).

      Your post assumes that only the black and white extremes exist - nothing could be further from the truth, luckily. There is a whole world in between the two.

    3. Re:I don't care what anyone says by airfoobar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's a difference. Patent advocates are in the business of conspiring against the public to line their own pockets. The FSF represents public interests and has nothing to hide. Crashing the patent troll party makes a much more powerful statement, imo.

    4. Re:I don't care what anyone says by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There's a difference. Patent advocates are in the business of conspiring against the public to line their own pockets. The FSF represents public interests and has nothing to hide.

      Not saying I'm for or against software patents, but you do realize that "patent advocates" are citizens of the public, too, right? And that owners of corporations are citizens? They have exactly as much right as the FSF to argue what the interests of the public are.

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    5. Re:I don't care what anyone says by mapkinase · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The notion of "extremism" is based on the notion that majority always represent somewhat "middle", "balanced" or "common-sensical" or "best" or etc. position, while in fact majority always represents just the most marketed, the most advertised, the most imposed position. That is for situations when wide public is involved.

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    6. Re:I don't care what anyone says by u17 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Patent advocates represent their corporations, because it is the corporations that own the patents, not the advocates themselves. Corporations are legal persons but are not citizens. There is no equivalence there.

    7. Re:I don't care what anyone says by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, I think that all extremists should be killed to ensure that the debate remains moderate! Oh, wait ...

      It's also worth mentioning that if you immediately dismiss all extremists, you limit the debate to those ideas which the powers that be have deemed "mainstream" and acceptable. Extremists are the ones that change what is considered mainstream.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    8. Re:I don't care what anyone says by oiron · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As long as those "citizens" have only as much right to put forth their views as Stallman, and not, say, a couple of dozen legislators in their pockets, I might just agree there.

      Considering, however, that they tend to spam the entire argument, and then use undue influence to enact measures that are only in their own selfish interests, and detrimental to the general common good, I give them much less benefit of the doubt.

    9. Re:I don't care what anyone says by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What some people would like to characterize here as "extremism" is merely a slightly older form of the status quo.

      If RMS could be declared an "extremist" at all in this situation is merely a reflection that most people are entirely ignorant and apathetic on this subject.

      This is one argument where RMS is not an extremist at all.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    10. Re:I don't care what anyone says by CODiNE · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So THAT'S why moderate muslims don't denounce the crazies. I get it now thanks.

      --
      Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    11. Re:I don't care what anyone says by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Citizens own corporations. The corporation's interest is their interest.

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    12. Re:I don't care what anyone says by Yvanhoe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't know... I have many arguments to oppose to extremists (on my side or against my side) but I don't like to call RMS an extremist because his views and positions are coherent, rational and come with arguments. He is uncompromising, that's sure, but does that make one an extremist ?

      Uncompromising, sure. Idealist, hell yes, but extremist ? How so ? Does he advocate violence ? Does he say we must break laws ? Come one... I like RMS in that he doesn't care about what is reasonable, what is consensual, he cares about his point and defends it.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    13. Re:I don't care what anyone says by DamnStupidElf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Stallman is not advocating that you be forced to adhere to the beliefs of the FSF. The GPL is a voluntary license based on copyright. Software patent advocates would like their beliefs to become legal everywhere, forcing everyone to comply with them.

      An extreme view on copyright or patents would be a demand for their immediate dissolution. Software patents are a relatively recent legal phenomenon recognized in only some countries. Arguing against them is far from extreme.

  2. Re:He's LOSING it man !! by airfoobar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bonkers are the people who see what's going on around them, and say and do nothing.

  3. the printing press by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    bought about the creation of the middle class, modern democracy, and the death of the feudal system and the aristocracy

    it took awhile. the feudal system and the aristocracy in their time were just no brainer common sense, and the idea of challenging them was either something to be laughed at or you must be crazy to believe they could ever end or to doubt their validity

    the internet means the death of the entire concept of intellectual property

    it will take awhile. in our time some people just take the idea of intellectual property as just no brainer common sense, and the idea of challenging it is either something to be laughed at or you must be crazy to believe it could ever end or to doubt its validity

    in today's age, stallman is but a distant voice in the wilderness, but he's actually 100% correct, just way ahead of his time, too far ahead, to gain any traction

    the simple truth is that intellectual property is a completely flawed concept. it made sense before the internet when media had to be physically printed and physically distributed. much as the feudal system made sense when only a few could afford book knowledge

    all that intellectual property has going for it now is legal and cultural inertia. it is of course completely philosophically untenable when media can be shared at zero cost at great distances with millions instantaneously. it will take time, but intellectual property is going down the tubes. the intartubes

    let us work hard to hasten its demise

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:the printing press by airfoobar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Are you seriously arguing that African countries are the way they are because they have no IP laws?? As for China, I think they are innovating just fine, and in a few years they might give us a run for our money.

  4. Good for him. by mrthoughtful · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I recall when I went through a rather lengthy discussion with the UK government about software patents, and the state of the law. It became very clear that regarding patent law, the UK government and the UK patent office is very heavily influenced by advisors who are, almost to a man, commercial patent lawyers. The remaining industry spokesmen are from big business.

    It doesn't take a huge amount of understanding or research to see that SME innovation has more or less been destroyed by the existing patent processes. Entry into big success is done through innovation still - but not so much via the patent route. I would contend that companies like Facebook was successful, NOT because of whatever patents they may have held, (or bought), but because they were able to identify a market demand and react to it faster or more successfully than existing big industry was able.

    --
    This comment was written with the intention to opt out of advertising.
  5. Please stop abusing the term "sharing." by Damon+Tog · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Copying other people's stuff and giving it away isn't "sharing."

    If you want to share, create your own work and give it away for free.

    In the past (and present) this is precisely what Richard Stallman did with GNU. He wanted software to be free. Instead of bootlegging copies of Windows (or MS-DOS) he created his OWN stuff and gave it away for free. Now Linux is a force to be reckoned with. If he had simply pirated other peoples' work, this innovation would have never happened.

    1. Re:Please stop abusing the term "sharing." by Mad+Leper · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Copying someone else's work and distributing it without permission or license for free, thus depriving the creator of income counts as theft in my book.

      This is not what the FOSS movement is about and it's a shame that so many pirates hide behind the skirts of the Open Source movement to justify their actions. Even worse that so many FOSS supporters turn a blind eye to the practice rather than deal with it directly.

    2. Re:Please stop abusing the term "sharing." by JustinOpinion · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is getting tangential, but... As I've argued before, when a debate starts focusing on terminology, both parties need to step back ask why people are worried so much about the terminology. Typically it is because words have added emotional baggage or implications, that either side wants to subtly slip into the debate without actively addressing the point.

      In this case, one side really wants to use the word "stealing" to be used, because of the emotional baggage of associated with it (it's wrong, it's bad, no one honest would do it, ...). The other side wants to use the word "sharing" similarly (it's good, everyone is taught to share, no one is harmed, ...).

      But in an intellectually honest debate, both sides would willingly back off from contentious terminology, and use neutral terms and focus on the particulars. Regardless of whether distributing digital copies is "sharing" or "stealing" (or both, or neither), we should debate whether said distribution is a net gain for society. We should debate whether said distribution violates a party's basic rights. And then from those points, we should debate what law would be both fair and socially-helpful.

      I fully acknowledge that words have meaning, and we should try to be precise with language. But this is exactly why an honest debate should not invoke terms with an intent to capitalize on ambiguity. My main point is not to let debate get derailed by terminology concerns. Focus on the nature and consequences of the activity being debated, rather than ambiguous labels or partial analogies.

      In the case of copyright, it becomes very difficult to argue for the social necessity, and intrinsic justness, of very long-term and rigidly-enforced copyright when you can no longer draw a false analogy to stealing of physical property. Conversely, it becomes difficult to argue that copyright infringement is completely without harm once you remove the sharing rhetoric and focus on the incentive/social-contract aspect of copyright law. In other words, I believe a socially-constructive compromise is more likely to arise from that kind of honest debate (yes, I know how unrealistic it is to expect that kind of debate to actually happen).

    3. Re:Please stop abusing the term "sharing." by SheeEttin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Copying other people's stuff and giving it away isn't "sharing." If you want to share, create your own work and give it away for free.

      Let's say you have a car. You lend it to your friend.
      Is that sharing? Yes.
      Now let's say you have the ability to magically duplicate your car, and you give your friend a duplicate so when he needs it, you're not without a car.
      Is that sharing? Yes, but in a different way.

      So, you are still sharing something you have. Remember those "you wouldn't steal a car" ads? They were right, I wouldn't. But if I could get an exact copy such that the owner was not deprived of his car, I sure as hell would! Who wouldn't want a nice car for free?!

      And before someone says that you'd kill the auto industry by not giving them their money for cars... open-source hasn't killed closed (yet). And then there's these guys.

  6. Re:GNU/Stallman by melikamp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Shouting, running, making a fool out of himself. I think if only he would do the sort of things he does without calling a ruckus, then people might take him more seriously.

    May be he doesn't care about being taken seriously. May be he just wants people to be serious about defending their own right to free expression. And I am sorry for people who are turned away from his lucid arguments because they think that non-violent protests against economic oppression and political censorship are "extremism": can people be any more docile?

  7. And the problem? by Steauengeglase · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Given the number of corporate shills who show up at F/OSS conventions peddling things like, "'you people' need to get over software patents" or "sometimes you just can't just hand the source over to the client, its just good for business" or "I'm not calling you people communist -or even traitors, but you have to wonder about someone who doesn't genuinely care about the shareholder's position", I have no problem with Stallman shitting in their yard. Good for him.

  8. Crashes? by swm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The headline says "crashes".
    The article says "interrupted", but gives no details.
    The article has two pictures (#18 and #19).
    #19 looks like Stallman posing after the event for the benefit of the camera.
    #18 is probably the interruption.
    All you can see from the picture is that Stallman (and friend) stood at the front of a conference room holding poster-board signs.
    It looks like Stallman has a sheaf of papers in his hand, so maybe he said something.

  9. Re:GNU/Stallman by jDeepbeep · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In other words, if he would just keep his mouth shut, not make anyone uncomfortable, and not live out his philosophy, he would be acceptable to you. Get back to us when you've done even _an eighth_ of what RMS has done for software freedoms that all of us benefit directly from.

    --
    Reply to That ||
  10. Free software is good for the economy by bouldin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would tell the corporate world that free software is good for the economy, and good for their business.

    There are plenty of vendors out there who have built products on top of Linux, Apache, etc.

    If Linux, Apache, etc. were not available for free, these vendors either would not have been able to launch their products, or would have paid huge licensing fees for crap like the Microsoft web server, driving up their prices.

    If it weren't for these kinds of public software projects, everything would be more expensive, from consumer electronics to enterprise appliances.

  11. Re:clarification by galoise · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You have a crucial point that you fail to see: those two forms of IP are already distinguished in legal institutions: copyright and patents. the problem, is that both legal institutions are being extended out of control... but the difference is there, and we only need to adjust one (patents) and abolish the other.

    But independently of that particular solution, the fact that technological development makes some particular form of social institution or enterprise obsolete is not the problem. If the invention of the wheel made some forms of transportation obsolete, considerations about the preservation or future or pre-wheel forms of transportation should not be valid arguments in discussions about development and deployment of the wheel.

    In other words....it doesn't matter. The problem right now is not how are we going to secure that there are incentives for people to invent stuff, but that the mechanisms that we do have in place, that were never created with that intention but also work as incentive structures, are becoming unacceptable threats to the public interest and freedom.

    First we need to stop the escalation into police states that the extension of these mechanisms is bringing about, THEN we should let the people that are trying to make money inventing stuff work out how they are going to actually make any.

    In other words: the "technological development" argument is moot. it is not going to happen, period. So don't use it to respond to my complaints about my lost freedoms, because i'm being monitored, censored, persecuted, fined and incarcerated NOW, and you want me to worry about the potential profit problem of some corporation in some undefined future. get your priorities right.

    As a subsidiary argument, you can reconsider the reasons that were argued in its time for the implementation of IP protection. it was never "let's secure a revenue stream for the author", it was much more a thing of "let's secure the integrity of the produced media for the future, by preventing unauthorized sub-par copies to be made and distributed". That line of thought rests, however, on the direct correlation between cheap copy and low quality copy that digital media makes obsolete.

    --
    entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem