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Father of Java, James Gosling Unloads

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the java-and-java dept.

javab0y writes "The folks over at basementcoders did a podcast with James Gosling, The Father of Java, last week at a coffee shop in San Francisco during the JavaOne conference. In a raw and no-holds-barred interview, James let loose on Oracle, the Google Lawsuit, and his experience with IBM. You know its going to be good when he starts out saying, 'I eventually graduated in '83. Went to work for IBM which is, you know, is within the top 10 of my stupidest career decisions I've made.' The podcast was fully transcribed."

7 of 337 comments (clear)

  1. A Few Typos, But The Heart and Core Is There... by potemcam · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It was an hour long interview recorded on a handheld device, and we (basementcoders & TheServerSide) tried to get the transcription out as quickly as possible so those who didn't have the time to listen to the hour long interview could at the very least read through it. There's a few typos in there that we'll fix soon enough, but putting that aside, you really get to the heart of what's driving Gosling and what he hopes for the future of Java.

  2. Times have changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Back when I was in high school and java was new I was taking a comp sci class where we were given the names of important people in the IT industry and asked to write a report on who they were and why they're important. I googled his name on altavista.com (there was no google) and found nothing (no wikipedia at the time) except an email address at Sun. So I emailed him a list of everything I needed to know and promptly received a reply. Good luck reaching any IT big wig these days.

  3. The Google lawsuit by VGR · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Mr. Gosling feels the Google lawsuit is just Oracle's noticing an opportunity to squeeze money out of Google:

    James Gosling: ...I'm sure they were looking at the license fees they were getting from Microsoft. Microsoft .NET just smears over a huge pile of Sun patents. When they did the .NET design, they basically cut and pasted from the Java spec. The way that they did CLR, you know they swizzled the way the instruction set went but the way this thing really operated, they exercised essentially no creativity when coming up with .NET. They've done some things since then that have been kind of good but as part of the various court cases we ended up with this rather odd patent deal with them that involved them paying us fairly tasty amounts of money. And I'm sure that the lawyers looked at the Microsoft numbers and said, yeah I want that from Google

    I actually did not know, until today, that Microsoft was paying a Java patent license fee for .NET's design.

    Just before he said the above, he said this, which is probably obvious to many people, but I found it poignant all the same:

    James Gosling: With Oracle it doesn't have to make sense, it just has to make money.

    --
    The Internet is full. Go away.
    1. Re:The Google lawsuit by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 3, Interesting

      @RightSaidFred99 I would take Gosling's word over you who did some Google searches .. these agreements aren't public and you won't just find them by typing in a search engine. So it really doesn't matter what you believe .. unless you were AT Sun or AT Microsoft when this went down .. your opinion means just a little less then gum on the bottom of a shoe.

      Yes, they are (as so any litigation that might lead to these agreements.) These are publicly traded companies. It would be extremely, extremely rare that something of such magnitude would be hidden away from public eyes. In fact, anything hidden like that would typically be considered un-kosher and suspect of investigation.

  4. as an ex-sun guy by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have to laugh at his comments about oracle. and the oracle view of 'The Tee Shirt' (tm).

    speaking of tee shirts, while at sun there was a 'java anniversary party' and mr java himself was there. some cute photos from the event, a few years back (when sun was still kind of fun to be at):

    http://farm1.static.flickr.com/221/472512518_4f70840cd2_z.jpg
    http://farm1.static.flickr.com/19/121342959_449ed7dea0_z.jpg
    http://farm1.static.flickr.com/202/472513502_682f02afc2_z.jpg
    http://farm1.static.flickr.com/19/121338473_07823a9da0_z.jpg

    RIP sun. we all miss you.

    and, duke, please turn out the lights when you leave, okay?

    --

    --
    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  5. The Eclipse explanation was the best part! by Gorimek · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "IBM's been kind of weird on the whole topic because on the one hand they do everything they can to try and screw Sun over, I mean they didn't name Eclipse casually"

    Never crossed my mind but once pointed out it's obvious that an Eclipse is what can defeat the Sun!

  6. let me unload, too by yyxx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Ok, since he's unloading, let me "unload" too.

    Mr. Gosling, the only reason Java is any good at all is because large numbers of technically competent people (many of them at IBM) fixed up the bad design decisions you made and patched up your horrible implementation. Unfortunately, there are limits to how much one can fix if a language is as broken as Java 1.0 was.

    You have some gall criticizing Dalvik, which runs efficiently, unbloated, and apparently quite securely on millions of phones. The sandbox on your Java design and implementation on the other hand was insecure and buggy both conceptually and in terms of implementation, as a never ending stream of published problems showed. Of course, since Java failed for applets, hardly anybody cares anymore; nowadays, Java's sandbox is just bloat for most users.

    And all the while you were promoting Java as an "open" language, you knew that it was covered by Sun patents that made any independent implementation impossible, what a cynical and evil thing to do.

    Fortunately, its awful UI libraries kept Java from achieving any significance on the desktop or web, and for most server side software, people have developed alternatives based on less bloated platforms that are easier to develop for.

    And of course, it's Java that sucked up all the development resources at Sun without yielding much in terms of revenue; it's the reason Sun eventually went out of business. And mobile Java's poor performance, poor compatibility, and horrible user interface killed mobile applications development until Apple came out with iPhone. What is Java going to kill next?