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Cyber Command Will Miss Friday's Operational Deadline

Posted by samzenpus on from the army-of-none dept.

techinsider writes "The U.S. Cyber Command won't be fully operational by Friday's October 1st deadline. A major challenge appears to be staffing the command with qualified personnel, of which it will need over 1,000 skilled employees. General Alexander told Congress his leadership staff was in place but acknowledged there were challenges in bringing in people to the rest of the organization."

30 of 156 comments (clear)

  1. Staff shortages by h4rm0ny · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Can't get qualified IT staff? Why should someone who has studied for several years and has worked to gain specialist knowledge, want to work in an environment where people who know less than them and don't have to break their backs to meet arbitrary deadlines are more highly rewarded? When those with the greatest expertise and who have to work hardest to actually create the product get the smallest portion of the credit and the pay, no wonder there are problems encouraging people to work in the field.

    --

    Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    1. Re:Staff shortages by captain29 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I guess they can't outsource the IT work to india?

    2. Re:Staff shortages by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why should someone who has studied for several years and has worked to gain specialist knowledge, want to work in an environment where people who know less than them and don't have to break their backs to meet arbitrary deadlines are more highly rewarded?

      Sounds like the management of every company I have come across. If there are exceptions please let me know

    3. Re:Staff shortages by chemicaldave · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While looking for jobs in the DC Area I noticed several openings with Raytheon that seemed to be what Cyber Command is looking for, "Cyber Warrior" being one of them. Most of the openings were looking for extremely specific qualifications, yet I didn't notice any mention of training for applicants that might not be completely what they're looking for. Perhaps they need to lower their standards just a bit.

    4. Re:Staff shortages by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The big exception is successful startups. Emphasis on the word "successful", because there are a lot of unsuccessful startups out there. And even then, you need to get in early.

      One of the major flaws of corporate capitalism is that people who make a product are generally seen as less important (and thus less paid) than those who sell the product or tell other people to make or sell the product. It's exceedingly rare these days for someone to move from the proverbial factory floor to anything higher on the totem pole than the equivalent of senior foreman. In geek-land, those translate to techies' career path frequently blocked by de facto policy from getting past something like Senior Software Architect in a lot of corporations.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    5. Re:Staff shortages by Almost-Retired · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But, are the people who are charged with doing all this hiring cognizant of the type of folks to hire? I'd almost bet the farm they are far more interested in the results of a background check, than in the potential talent of the person being considered. Its the government way.

      IMO what they want is someone who is intimately familiar with a code base whose source can change in response to perceived or actual threats, sometimes by tens of kilobytes a day. I'll submit that such a person does not exist who can also get a clean bill of health from the background checking spooks. And may not exist at all.

      Another poster said of the payscale, that it is more than likely 10% of what that same person could earn working the other side of the line or at a large commercial firm.

      Point being, if he can do the job, he is worth whatever he asks, and conversely if he cannot do the job, he is excess baggage to be removed from the payroll. And a thousand people is IMO, a very unrealistic figure. 10 good guys/gals in constant communication should be able to handle any attacks in almost real time, by writing the defense code in almost real time. Say about 50 altogether for 24/7/366 coverage. But pulling 50 such people out of the enterprise arena, assuming they are willing to pay what they are worth, would leave a minor but detectable vacuum in the talent pool.

      One old farts nickles worth.

      --
      Cheers, Gene
      "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
        soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
      -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
      Man's unique agony as a species consists in his perpetual conflict between
      the desire to stand out and the need to blend in.
                                      -- Sydney J. Harris

    6. Re:Staff shortages by tverbeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're onto something... but it's the wrong "something". The issues you';re describing aren't unique to this program at all; they're true of most bureaucracies, whether they're non-profit, for-profit, government, or military. What's different about working for the military is its "corporate culture" (for lack of a better term), and that can be off-putting to a lot of people, especially geeks.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    7. Re:Staff shortages by Pojut · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One of the major flaws of corporate capitalism is that people who make a product are generally seen as less important (and thus less paid) than those who sell the product or tell other people to make or sell the product

      This reminds me of a movie we watched a couple of days ago...a biopic on Coco Chanel. In the film, there's this scene where there are dozens of women sitting there sewing purses, dresses, etc...and the woman playing Chanel says "This company is successful because of me! It's called C-H-A-N-E-L for a reason!".

      Claiming responsibility for the company's success while saying nothing of the throngs of people actually putting together her products was simultaneously amusing and disheartening.

      Offtopic: for anyone interested, this is the one I'm talking about. It's pretty good.

      --
      Living With a Nerd
    8. Re:Staff shortages by bsDaemon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      See, the military is supposed to have trained these people already. And vetted them for TS/SCI clearances so that Raytheon doesn't have to pay for that either. Then, upon honorable discharge, they can do the same job for 1.5x the pay, but get to wear a poloshirt instead of digis and think that they're having fun. If that doesn't describe you, then you're too expensive to invest in, will take too long to process, and they don't want to bother,

    9. Re:Staff shortages by characterZer0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Assuming that by "mozzy" you mean Muslim, few people hate al Quaida as much as most Muslim Indians who are having their desire to just live their lives undermined by radicals using Islam to give themselves credibility.

      --
      Go green: turn off your refrigerator.
    10. Re:Staff shortages by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Funny

      US cyber-command requirements.

      60+ years experience with windows 7 and Windows 8
      12+ years experience with Quantum computing
      Ability to hack a Russian missile site in 2 minutes with a gun to their head.
      Can transfer large amounts of money across the globe untraceably.

      Having the quirk of standing up and yelling "I am invincible" after every major objective is a plus.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    11. Re:Staff shortages by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >>>want to work in an environment where people who know less than them... are more highly rewarded?

      I'd work there, if only to oversee the operations and make sure the staff are Obeying the Constitution (no searches without warrants) rather than tearing it to shreds. I also find it hard to believe, with 10% unemployment, they can't find engineers/software people who are desperate for jobs. The hiring staff are probably being nitpicky, requiring ALL the skills in every employee, instead of just say 50% of the skills and letting the employee learn the task on the job.

      As for your question: What work environment isn't like that? Every place I ever worked the managers were paid more than the competent workers with the actual skills. It simple supply-and-demand, and unfortunately there's a huge supply of workers so that drives down their wages.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    12. Re:Staff shortages by Pharmboy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Piece of cake. They just need people that are not gay, have never smoked marijuana, can code in their sleep, and are willing to work for less than they could in the private sector. And they must not mind having military and bureaucrats for bosses who make 5 times more money for "leading" them in tasks that they themselves are clueless about. And be able to live up to deadlines that are decided by committees of higher up bosses who are new to the interweb.

      What is so difficult about that?

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    13. Re:Staff shortages by erroneus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The root of the problem is that "something" is suppressing IT worker pay and that fewer people are interested in doing that sort of work for the rest of their lives. How did that happen? Just gotta follow it all back to see where it started. There was a time when IT was well paid. It could have stopped if the government took a firm stand on the H1B issue. It could also stop if the government interrupted the flow of foreign students here.

      We have a serious problem with our final superior asset in that it is pretty much GONE already.

      We don't have strong R&D because current business philosophies see it as a waste of money when this quarter's bottom line is at stake. The mentality of business is breaking the long-term outlook on business, employment and the general economy of the U.S. They managed to sell out the entire nation while the government who should have been preventing this was busy taking "contributions."

    14. Re:Staff shortages by anegg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We don't have 10% unemployment in the general area in which the Cyber Command draws its staff. I live and work in the area. For example, I posted two advertisements for sys admins several months ago; one focused on LAMP/PHP skills, the other ColdFusion skills. In 4 weeks I received about 7 preliminary applications TOTAL, none of them qualified.

      Clearances are required, and in this area finding qualified, cleared personnel is difficult. This has driven salaries up to crazy levels. The government has shot itself in the foot by having too many positions requiring cleared personnel (when its not really necessary) and by not having qualified gov't. people overseeing the contractors. The contractors are able to "qualify" staff at levels that exceeds their real capabilities, which they are happy to do because they gov't. pays the contractor based on the staff members' salaries plus overhead. The economic incentive is not there for the contractors to keep salaries low.

      For example, one multi-contractor project I worked on had one contractor poaching personnel from the other by offering them 20% to 50% raises. The folks stayed working on the same project, got a huge jump in salary, and the government just paid the extra freight. My company (a larger defense contractor in business a while) tried to discuss the relative insanity of this with the government customer, but the gov't. either couldn't or wouldn't do anything about it.

      As for the idea of keeping the government "honest" with respect to the US Constitution: if you were hired at "Cyber Command", you would not be in a position to oversee operations and make sure the staff are obeying the constitution... you would have the choice of doing your job or resigning if you saw something you didn't like. The environment is murky enough that it would be extremely difficult for anyone to prove anything without a serious risk of losing their clearance (which would end the high salary gravy train) and possibly going to jail (for violating the terms of their clearance).

    15. Re:Staff shortages by frinkster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I also find it hard to believe, with 10% unemployment, they can't find engineers/software people who are desperate for jobs.

      National unemployment for Americans with a bachelor degree or higher is currently 4.6%. Certainly there are plenty of unemployed engineers/software people out there, but not as many as you might expect.

    16. Re:Staff shortages by geekoid · · Score: 4, Informative

      NO one cares if they are gay.
      No one expects them to code in their sleep.
      they pay competitively. More so if you include benefits.
      Their bosses MAY make more money, it depends.
      I guarantee you their bosses are not 'clueless'.
      And from my experiences, I get to dictate my deadline. I will get to do so for as long as I keep meeting my deadlines.

      Yeah, there will be a drug test;however most companies have drug tests. And yeah, there will be some security issues. Since you are dealing with security of government installations I don't really have an issue with that.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  2. Where are the pics? by Thanshin · · Score: 3, Funny

    The title is misleading.

    I didn't find any pictures of Miss Friday in TFA.

  3. Career poison... by VendettaMF · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Could it be that anyone skilled enough to participate is also skilled enough to see a complete operational failure that will smear the resume of anyone desperate enough to work there?
    And with the additional toxic working environment supplied by mass-employed "upper-tiers" of politically motivated and utterly incompetent management not even the draw of decent pay in the coming second half of the recession is likely to reverse that.

    --
    kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
    1. Re:Career poison... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sounds like I left the IT world to join the Air Force. I'm much happier 10 years later, don't usually feel the need to drink, and what I do makes a difference, instead of being smothered by useless red tape. Ironically, those guys who told me I was throwing away a brilliant career are all miserable now, and my pay has finally caught up. They don't get shot at, granted, but I rarely do, and right now my happy ass is on an island in the Med, making per diem watching a robot do it's thing. Oh yeah, I can go back to corporate pain in 10 years when I retire and my peers are all terified of getting laid off. This isn't for everyone, and it's not cushy, but it sure beat a meaningless life.

  4. we have managers by kubitus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    now we look for somebody to do the work

  5. 'Management positions are filled ...' by srealm · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why would any self-respecting geek want to work in a place where there is no possibility of being management, and all the management is, self-admittedly, not 'qualified' to do their job?

    I'm sorry, but I've never been able to respect a manager who could not have done my job, and has done in previous years. Now that doesn't mean everyone up to the CEO needs to be a programmer, very quickly managers stop being programmers and their day focuses on other things (read: meetings and bureaucracy).

    So by my example, a dev manager should be a former programmer, his/her manager should have experience leading a team of tech people, his/her manager should have been a manager for other tech managers before, etc. In other words, each level should have experience doing the day-to-day job of the level below.

    And what about career advancement - it sounds pretty lame when all the management positions are pre-filled, so the only way to move up the chain is for someone higher up to retire, or get dishonorably discharged (I assume the guys in management are career military, not doing a tour).

    1. Re:'Management positions are filled ...' by N1AK · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm sorry, but I've never been able to respect a manager who could not have done my job, and has done in previous years.

      I've never respected a manager who thought their job was to do the job their staff were employed to do. I've been 'managed' by someone two-three rungs up, based on another continent who I met twice. He had no background experience of my area of expertise. He was extremely good at getting the information he required, involving people as required and committed to decisions he made. I'd much rather be managed by a good manager than by a good worker.

  6. Maybe its because they don't want to hire geeks? by koterica · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "It was supposed to be a war fighter unit, not a geek unit," said task force veteran Jason Healey, who had served as an Air Force signals intelligence officer.
    A fighter would understand, for instance, if an enemy had penetrated the networks and changed coordinates or target times, said Dusty Rhoads, a retired Air Force colonel and former F-117 pilot who recruited the original task force members. "A techie wouldn't have a clue," he said. --Washington Post

    With their attitude towards cyber security experts (who are probably also geeks!), I am not particularly surprised they have had trouble with staffing.

  7. Maybe if they paid closer to industry standard... by Lookin4Trouble · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Having seriously considered the positions in question from their open job postings, qualified applicants stand to make somewhere in the mid-$100k range in the private sector anywhere in the country, and closer to the $200k mark in the DC Metropolitan area (the 2nd highest cost of living allowance area in the country, right behind Denver, CO). Salary ranges offered are in the $60-83k starting mark. Offer a competitive wage, and you may just get qualified applicants.

  8. Not suprised by r4d1x · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If SAIC is running the show it's no wonder that it is difficult for them to staff the positions. No self respecting IT professional would accept a job under a company that treats their employees like crap.

    Additionally, choosing "Combat Veterans" over IT professionals will eventually cause this entire project to fail. Field IT is not a qualification for running a full blow offensive security command. Most of these people are using pre-configured equipment in shock cases and only need to know that cable A goes to port B, then press power. If the government is concerned that civilian personnel will not know what the data they are protecting should look like, then they should train them to know what they are looking at.

  9. + must be army fitness + take a DI in your faces by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    + must be army fitness + take a DI in your faces do a lot of PT just for A DESK JOB!

  10. most good IT people are to old for the army to get by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    most good IT people are to old for the army to get in and do you want to start over at amry private pay as well?

  11. What" No Indians? by TrentTheThief · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The military never, ever has a problem filling billets for "knowledgeable" people to make "important" decisions with "authority" and "zeal."

    The problem they do have, however, is that none of the people who actually understand and "live" for the work are ever the same as those "knowledgeable" people who make "important" decisions with "authority" and "zeal."

    In other words, they have plenty of chiefs and no fucking indians. (that's not a pun at India, it's a phrase familiar to all sailors and many Marines.)

    Smart and innovative people are frequently classed as troublemakers and misfits when they chaff at the idiocy of military stricture. It's hard to live with arbitrary rules that either have no rationale or lost whatever usefulness they had 50 years ago. You can't lure people in with glamour jobs where none exist. And most certainly not for less than a quarter of the pay. Military benefits have steadily eroded since the end of the Viet Nam war, and they sure as heel won't be getting any better.

    Good luck with that staffing issue, Al.

  12. The problem is the area where CYBERCOM is located. by gimmebeer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In the MD/DC/VA area, everyone works for some form of gov't agency. Ft. Meade is also home to another larger and sexier IT-type agency which shall remain nameless, so they are competeing heavily for the IT talent they have. Also, agencies in the suburbs between DC and Baltimore generally pay less than those located in the District and NoVA, so people with the clearances required to work there would be taking a paycut. The short answer.... pay more or lower your expectations.