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Can We Travel To That Exciting New Exoplanet?
An anonymous reader writes "The news last week that exoplanet Gliese 581g may be in the 'Goldilocks zone' and could therefore hold liquid water and alien life got everyone all excited, with good reason. A potentially habitable planet — and only 20 light years away! But to put things in perspective, here are a couple of estimates on what it would take to travel to Gliese 581g. One scientist puts the travel time at 180,000 years based on current space flight technology, while another explains that it could be quite quick if we build a matter-antimatter drive, and can figure out how to bring along 530 times as much mass in fuel as is contained in the ship and cargo itself."
That is one HELL of an assumption. Considering that the fastest space vehicles ever created took 3 months to travel a mere 8 light *minutes* (somewhere around one-16000th the speed of light), the assumption that we will ever reach even a significant fraction of the speed of light with a vehicle created anytime in the conceivable future is a bit of an overstretch to say the *least*. At the speed of the Helios probes, that journey to this planet would take over 300,000 years, BTW. So even McConville's 180,000 year estimate is a bit optimistic.
And that's not even throwing in the navigation difficulties (that's going to require some epically precise calculations), the damage such a long trip would inflict to the craft with radiation and micrometeorites, the need for braking when you get there, etc.
Interstellar space is a big VAST empty that few people appreciate. When I was a kid, all the science fiction and popular misinformation made it sound like the next solar system started right at the edge of our own. It was only when I got older that I realized that our solar system is just a tiny dot in a huge sea of lonely empty. The scale of distances between solar systems is difficult for the human mind to even appreciate.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Just convince some corporation that it has unobtainium.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Kids today! When I was a lad, we would've killed for a Sulfuric Acid atmosphere. We had to make our own air!
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
Technological limitations aside, this is the first time in several hundred years that we have had a further shore to sail to... a place where no man has gone before, as the saying goes.
That has to count for something.
For me this is the most profound discovery in the history of us. Without hyperbole. The only thing I can see superseding it is, of course, the confirmation of life itself out there.
I think we need a further shore... and I'm glad I lived to see a new one.
Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48, and am what some people call "mentally retarded".
Would it not make sense to communicate first? Radio at 20 light years is a 40 year round trip. You never know, somebody might answer with instructions on how to get there quicker.
Hey! That's given me an idea for a great film. Is Jodie Foster available for the lead?
You are correct, but just a mere few hundred years ago the fastest we could move was a dozen or so miles in a day. I am optimistic that if we don't manage to destroy ourselves we'll find means of providing energy and types of propulsion that would seem like magic to us today (kudos to A.C. Clarke for the reference).
I'd really love to see some college actually do a study on if it would be possible or not. It's hard to say without real research just how much and what kind of resources an ark ship would need over those kinds of timescales. What's the theoretical rate of atmosphere loss? How efficiently can waste be recycled and put back into the ecosystem?
Using a sperm bank to dramatically increase genetic diversity would significantly reduce the minimum size of the crew, an all woman crew would further reduce the size but would probably cause all new problems. A vegan diet reduces the need to support non-human animal mass, but adds a requirement to be able to synthesize some vitamins and proteins. Enough redundant manufacturing to produce spare parts for everything, including the manufacturing facilities. IMO, it looks hard but not impossible with today's technologies.
You were lucky. We had to cobble a planet together out of dust in an protoplanetary disk!
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My other account has a 3-digit UID.
I read somewhere that they might be intentionally ignoring us until we develop warp capability.
A man on a good horse can maybe cover 30 miles a day unless he wants to kill the horse. A man on foot maybe 20 if he's in top shape. My comment stands. Maybe I should have said "A dozen or few" but still, you're just being pedantic.
No, it doesn't. Protein needs are easily met on a vegan diet; the only vitamin that can really be troublesome is B12, which is made by bacteria and so doesn't need to be synthesized.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Assuming it takes 100 years to build everything we need to make this flight, by the time you get there it will be 178,570 years after the group that took 1000 years to build the matter/antimatter ship finished their project.
This is what I see happening: The first colony ships will leave for a newly-found planet using then-state-of-the-art technology and when they arrive the first thing they'll see is a McDonald's putting up a sign advertising their new "Colonist Combo Meal Deal".
There is no gap between stars. By the time you get close to exiting our solar system, you will already be closer to a neighboring star then you will be to Sol.
The idea that we will build a ship to go to another star on a direct route is a child's fantasy, much like terraforming Mars. We need to figure out how to live in space. Once we have figured that out, we can go anywhere or nowhere. The resources in space that are close to the Earth dwarf the resources that exist on this planet.
What we need to be working on is automated fabricators and such. Propulsion is over-rated. Just start seeding the path with resources from our automated fabs and then when we do want to go somewhere, we can take our time and not have to bring everything with us.
Gene Roddenberry had it right. We need a wagon train to the stars.
You're forgetting that the volume is proportional to the cube of the radius, while gravity is proportional to the inverse square of the radius. So, while gravity doesn't increase linearly with mass, it's not constant either:
4x mass -> 4x volume -> 4^(1/3)x radius -> 4/4^(2/3)x gravity
So, gravity would be increased about 1.6 times. You should apologize to him if he weighs 380 pounds, not 500. :)
I had a bad dream that I stayed in shape by eating boring food, exercising my tail off, skipping slashdot to go outdoors in order to live that long, only to have the reply be: "STFU!"
Table-ized A.I.