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Can Large Scale NAT Save IPv4?
Julie188 writes "The sales pitch was that IPv6, with its zillions of new IP addresses, would eliminate the need for network address translation altogether. But Jeff Doyle, one of the guys who literally wrote the book on IPv6, suggests that not only will NAT be needed, but it will be needed to save IPv4 at the tipping point of IPv6 adoption. 'I've written previously that as we make the slow — and long overdue — transition from IPv4 to IPv6, we will soon be stuck with an awkward interim period in which the only new globally routable addresses we can get are IPv6, but most public content we want to reach is still IPv4. Large Scale NAT (LSN, also known as Carrier Grade NAT or CGN) is an essential tool for stretching a service provider's public IPv4 address space during this transitional period.'"
at work we use NAT behind a whole public class B and it work great. But as a customer I would not put up with it. I want to act as a server not only a dumb host. So please stop the carrier grade nating madness.
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Except for all the people still on XP, which has no native IPv6 support...
Has too. You just need to enable it: http://ipv6int.net/systems/windows_xp-ipv6.html
err windows xp does have ipv6 support but its not installed by default (in fact has had it since XP sp2)
now it may not have all the bells and whistles of say Vistas support (if anything can be supported by Vista) but you should at least be able to get an IP and get online.
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I don't know where you have been getting your predictions. It is pretty certain that IANA is going to run out of space about the middle of next year.
We have 14 /8's left in the IANA free pool, we use up almost 2 /8's every month.
Are you betting on the ipv4 space usage magically decreasing ( right when everyone will start freaking out about getting their last allocations )?
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Win/XP has fine IPv6 support except that it can only query DNS over IPv4 transport. That is, you can't run a pure IPv6 + Windows XP environment.
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Your ISP could still issue you a router with a firewall that's locked down pretty tight by default. Just because you have a globally routable IPv6 address doesn't mean your router has to let every packet through. What exactly are you worried about losing?
1. Is Comcast going to give me unlimited IPv6 addresses? How will that work through my router? Do I now need to announce every device to Comcast?
You get a subnet, and your router routes the whole subnet. Just like with IPv4, coincidentally.
NAT makes for a pretty good firewall. I have Linux and Mac machines, and consumer devices, behind my current NAT router. With NAT and SPI, I have it pretty good.
As opposed to having a firewall, instead of having a firewall?
Hey, I understand the need for IPv6. I guess I just don't want to lose what NAT offers.
Like what? Nothing what you stated had anything to do with NAT as such.
Mod parent up. If you've had to deal with any sort of reasonably larged sized network and NAT, everything he mentions above is a huge pain in the ass. Relying on NAT as a "firewall" is brain damaged anyway, and those who tihnk NAT needs not processing ability compared to a proper firewall are deluded. Every single packet needs to be looked up against the NAT state table, so even though you don't have any real firewall rules, processing is still going on.
The "protection" that NAT provides can be replaced with a real firewall simply blocking incoming connections and maintaining state on outgoing connections - without breaking NAT incompatible protocols to boot.
I can't wait for the IPV6 migration to hit en-masse. Those with a clue will be in huge demand.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Support for XP has stopped, it's an old OS.
Windows XP is supported until 2014 if you keep up with service packs.
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Currently, the internal IPs of my computers do not depend on which ISP I am connected to.
Actually IPv6 interfaces can, nay MUST, allow multiple address assignments. So in an all IPv6 world, each of your computers will have an ISP-dependent (publically routable) address, as you say. But, they will each ALSO have a locally assigned, non-routable ("site-local") address that you can use as an unchanging address on your LAN.
Plus, with IPv6 router solicitation/advertisement and/or DHCPv6, even the case of updating machines with new ISP-dependent addresses is not the onerous task you make it out to be.
If you have the skills to set up IPv6 just for kicks I seriously doubt you are dealing with what we out here in the field run into in most folk's homes, which is CCC, or "Cheap Chinese Crap". Trendnet/Zonenet, linksys, hell pick any under $50 router and see how many updates are sitting there for it on its home page. my guess it'll be like the Trendnet that is looking at me right now, which is zip. And unless things have changed in the less than 6 months I looked at routers there were exactly squat when it came to home combo wireless/wired routers under $50 that supported IPv6. None. you are not gonna get a home user to shell out $100+ for a router when their neighbor got a Trendnet for $20.
So trust me pal, they'll be eWaste all right, fricking endless traincars full of the crap. And where are all the IPv6 experts gonna come from? I don't see too many around here in NW AR, and traveling the south mostly what you find is good old boys running the networks that know IPv4 tools like the back of their hands and probably still got Win2K boxes running at home.That is a hell of a lot of flyover states that are gonna be seriously short of manpower when that switch gets flipped, a hell of a lot of problems that would take a couple of hours on IPv4 turning into weeks, it'll be a mess friend. Thanks to all the offshoring young folks just don't go IT hardly anymore, and it isn't like they can ship all those fixit jobs to India. Hell I'll admit I'm guilty of it myself, as I have been putting in 9 hour plus days and simply haven't had the time to learn IPv6, as there is nobody here actually using the stuff which makes learning it all that more difficult.
So if you are in NYC, LA, Miami, Dallas? Yeah it probably won't be that bad. The flyover states? Gonna be a fucking mess man, as someone who lives there I know of which I speak dude, i know of which I speak.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
If you have carrier redundancy, the IP6 stack can/will have *both* sets of IPs active at once, and you decide which gets used outgoing at the router. IPv6 actually includes multi-homing, unlike IPv4....