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Why Geim Never Patented Graphene

gbrumfiel writes "As we discussed on Tuesday, Andre Geim won this year's Nobel prize in physics for graphene, but he never patented it. In an interview with Nature News, he explains why: 'We considered patenting; we prepared a patent and it was nearly filed. Then I had an interaction with a big, multinational electronics company. I approached a guy at a conference and said, "We've got this patent coming up, would you be interested in sponsoring it over the years?" It's quite expensive to keep a patent alive for 20 years. The guy told me, "We are looking at graphene, and it might have a future in the long term. If after ten years we find it's really as good as it promises, we will put a hundred patent lawyers on it to write a hundred patents a day, and you will spend the rest of your life, and the gross domestic product of your little island, suing us." That's a direct quote.'"

10 of 325 comments (clear)

  1. Re:But if he doesn't patent it... by canajin56 · · Score: 3, Informative

    They seemed to think they would ruin him if he had a publication and a patent. Why would a Nobel Prize be a good example of prior art, but an actual patent would be a joke? Even with a patent and a Nobel prize and a dozen publications, there is nothing you can due when sued for violating 1,000 different patents and faced with a team of 200 lawyers filing a dozen lawsuits every day until you fold. That's the point. They don't care if they lose a lot in court. The point was they will never license his discovery, they will take and if he tries to fight, they will dedicate their entire existence to ruining his life. AKA they will act like any corporation ever. Steal and then sue your victim for 10 trillion dollars.

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  2. Re:But if he doesn't patent it... by DJ+Jones · · Score: 5, Informative

    RTFA. In the next paragraph Geim talks about what the guy from the electronics company meant. Patents only work if they are for specific devices or processes. Since graphene hasn't been use in any practical real-world solutions yet, there's really nothing to patent at this stage. The company that develop devices and uses for Graphene will end up filing more specific and enforceable patents.

    He wasn't necessarily knocking the system.

  3. Special Slashdot Memo #456555 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    You CANNOT patent basic elements: Graphene is a form of carbon.

    However, you CAN patent a process for using graphene.

    Go ahead and mod this post DOWN !

    Yours In Akademgorodok,
    Kilgore Trout

    1. Re:Special Slashdot Memo #456555 by Grond · · Score: 3, Informative

      You CANNOT patent basic elements: Graphene [wikipedia.org] is a form of carbon.

      It wouldn't be a patent on carbon itself as graphene can be considered an indefinitely large molecule. In the US it would be a patent on a 'composition of matter,' which is one of the basic classes of statutory subject matter. Although graphene does occur naturally in graphite and elsewhere, it does not occur in an isolated, purified form. The patent claims would be to isolated, purified graphene, probably having certain other characteristics (e.g., an average sheet size of at least X mm or whatever). All of this would be backed up with a description of (and probably claims for) a method of making graphene with those characteristics.

  4. Re:But if he doesn't patent it... by Dachannien · · Score: 4, Informative

    In the US, the standard is "not obvious to one having ordinary skill in the art". In other words, someone with more skill than Joe Sixpack, but less skill than an expert in the field.

  5. Re:But if he doesn't patent it... by Grond · · Score: 4, Informative

    In the US, the standard is "not obvious to one having ordinary skill in the art". In other words, someone with more skill than Joe Sixpack, but less skill than an expert in the field.

    It's a little more complicated than that. The level of skill involved depends on the subject matter. If the patent is about a simple mechanical device, then the level of skill will be relatively low. Perhaps a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering, if that. If the patent is about a complex genetically modified organism, then the person having ordinary skill in the art would have a high level of skill, probably a Ph.D in biology with some additional years of experience.

    You tend to have alleged infringers arguing that the level of skill in a given case is very high and therefore the super-genius involved would easily have found the invention obvious. The patentee tends to argue that the level of skill is very low and that the Joe Sixpack involved would find the invention astonishingly unobvious.

    The European Patent Convention--and thus the patent law of EU countries--follows a similar standard as the US ('a person skilled in the art').

  6. Re:But if he doesn't patent it... by HungryHobo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Something obvious you simply avoid doing for (probably)good reason is still obvious.
    How many of those same programmers who I assume were at least moderately skilled in the art would have had the slightest problem creating code to let a book get bought and shipped by one click?
    Where is the invention?
    Where is the non-obvious bit?

    If every gun manufacturer included a safety but is quite capable of building one without but don't that doesn't make it an "invention" when one of them does even if it turns out that people like guns with no safetys.

    It's an ideal poster child for bad patents.

  7. Re:One word: libel by haruchai · · Score: 3, Informative

    Geim lives in the UK. Libel is a pretty big deal by UK laws. If you don't have money and good lawyers, you don't want to be sued for libel

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  8. Re:But if he doesn't patent it... by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 3, Informative

    They used to say that about copyrights.

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  9. Re:But if he doesn't patent it... by dougmc · · Score: 3, Informative

    By default rm asks for confirmation before deleting a file. You have to override this behavior with the -f flag.

    You're wrong. rm only asks for confirmation if it's given the -i flag or if you're doing something unusual like removing a file you don't have write access to.

    Perhaps you have an alias set up that maps "rm" to "rm -i" -- it's a pretty common default alias, but it's a function of your *nix setup, not the rm command itself.