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What Tech Should Be In a Fifth-Grade Classroom?

theodp writes "While going about my day,' writes Slate's Linda Perlstein, 'I sometimes engage in a mental exercise I call the Laura Ingalls Test. What would Laura Ingalls, prairie girl, make of this freeway interchange? This Target? This cell phone? Some modern institutions would probably be unrecognizable at first glance to a visitor from the 19th century: a hospital, an Apple store, a yoga studio. But take Laura Ingalls to the nearest fifth-grade classroom, and she wouldn't hesitate to say, "Oh! A school!"' Very little about the American classroom has changed since Laura Ingalls sat in one more than a century ago, laments Perlstein, echoing a similar rant against old-school schooling by SAS CEO Jim Goodnight. Slate has launched a crowdsourcing project on the 21st-century classroom, asking readers to design a fifth-grade classroom that takes advantage of all that we have learned since Laura Ingalls' day about teaching, learning, and technology."

30 of 325 comments (clear)

  1. all kinds of distractions by Potor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Computers, iPads, iPhones, cell phones, iPods, you name it. Anything that gets in the way of learning stuff.

    We want to make this the most distracted, empty-headed generation ever, don't we?

    1. Re:all kinds of distractions by stephathome · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My oldest is just in elementary school, so I don't know how they do this in the higher grades, but her school does pay attention to truancy. More than 10 days missed in the entire school year results in a meeting with the parent, school admin and potentially someone from the sheriff's office. We came close to that with the flu and a couple days missed for colds. More than 10 days missed and you need a doctor's note for every one. I've heard from other parents of stricter rules elsewhere. I have to agree with you about class sizes. My mother was pointing out that when she was young classes were larger and discipline more strictly enforced. It worked. I think a big problem with modern education has a lot to do with parents being too willing to get their kids out of trouble with no consequences, and to complain about the teacher if their student isn't learning. It's not all about the teachers. They're a big part of it, but without family support kids don't learn very well. I saw a lot of that when helping in my daughter's kindergarten class a few years ago. You could really tell which kids were never read to by their parents.

  2. And technology? by Ironsides · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First thing, ban calculators. They aren't necessary before needing to deal with sines and cosines.

    --
    Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    1. Re:And technology? by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly. What we need is less technology in Elementary School. Not more. Science and Technology are not the same thing. Being able to play Farmville on your iPhone doesn't mean you understand physics. (Or farming.) Kids need to learn how to do math without calculators, as you say, read books, and do as much as they can mentally, on their own, without turning the task over to an electronic device.

      --
      If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    2. Re:And technology? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "and do as much as they can mentally, on their own"

      Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing. Only, instead of doing that in a school which forces you to take a variety of useless subjects that have nothing to do with your desired profession, do it while homeschooling. That way you'll waste less time on idiotic policies, have no chance of failing an entire year simply because you failed a single useless class that has nothing to do with your desired profession, have more choice, and be able to solve problems mostly on your own. If possible.

      Oh, and I don't see a problem with allowing calculators. If the student is so idiotic that they forget how to do math without one, that is their own problem. Perhaps disallow them the first few times, but generally they solve problems far quicker than a human can. Actually, I think they'd benefit more from getting rid of the 5,000 assignments that you are forced to do when you already understand the material.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    3. Re:And technology? by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What we need is less technology in Elementary School.

      As a mathematician, I would unquestionably back this assertion and would indeed extend it into the later years of Secondary school. My points mostly apply to mathematics, but I suspect they extend beyond it.

      The most important piece of technology for a mathematics educator is a blackboard. The most importance piece of high-tech equipment is a sliding blackboard. For students, their most important tools are paper, pencils, and a ruler and compass. This is all the equipment that should ever be used in mathematics education.

      Now, technology can be useful, but in elementary instruction it is more of a hindrance than a help. Remember, your ultimate objective is to teach students completely new methods and concepts. This is hard enough as it is without having to introduce them to an entire suite of new technology on top of everything else--often obsolete, inefficient, or unhelpful examples of technology at that.

      The first piece of high tech equipment students should be introduced to is a digital calculator for the calculation of trignometric functions and the rest of the elementary functions. These should most certainly NOT be allowed in the primary school cycle, and when introduced should be confined only to the evaluation of such non rational results. In essence, they should only be used as a more modern replacement for the old slide rules and log tables. Nothing more.

      A second level mathematics student should preferably never even see a single computer in the classroom before they enter third level education. The only exception to this is for second level computer programming courses, and these should never be made a part of any mathematics curriculum whatsoever. However, once in third level education, computers and computer programming must be introduced as a fundamental tool of modern mathematics; I quote the mathematician Gian-Carlo Rota's who said that "The future belongs to the computer-literate-squared." But the best time to introduce most students to the fundamentals of computers is in third level, after the more fundamental skills in other areas have been mastered.

      Make no mistake, we have modern technology suitable for the classroom. We have bigger, cheaper black and white boards. We have better, cheaper pens and copy books for students. Books are numerous and cheaper, or at least they should be. These are the important advancements we have made and which we should allow to impact our schools. Trying to go beyond these basic tools has been a recipe for disaster wherever it has been tried--excepting the handsome profits reaped by the companies who supplied these technologies.

      Computers and other high tech equipment should be banned outright from all primary schools. Their presence in secondary schools should be limited to select, computer centric subjects like programming and typewriting. Tech should only be introduced in the senior cycle of second level education and even then should never be used in most subjects. Once in University, technology can be presented--as it always has been--but before that I want students to be able to add fractions, solve quadratic equations, be familiar with trigonometry, and to know what a graph is. If western mathematics educations keeps going the way its going, that type of student is going to disappear from third level institutions, and no amount of computers is going to be able to fix the problem.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    4. Re:And technology? by TapeCutter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's all fine and dandy until you have to cut the steel for the bridge.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    5. Re:And technology? by Chowderbags · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If we encouraged more 5th graders to get the skill set of an astronaut we might be better off. You'll probably never meet an astronaut who thinks that the world is 6000 years old, or that homeopathy is effective treatment for anything, or that stars in the Zodiac control their entire life.

  3. Re:Supercomputers by Potor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd prefer super-balls. Then they could learn some real physics.

  4. whats wrong with schools won't be fixed with tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Schools are currently employed primarily to create football teams and consumers. Policy is the problem and technology will mostly likely be used to further that policy.

  5. Whiteboard. Classic One. by arivanov · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nothing has managed to replace the blackboard (and its more modern equivalent the whiteboard). I have some first hand observations from junior changing 3 schools in 3 years. The lower the tech in the classroom - the better the teaching.

    To put it in other terms - if the kids need an interactive soundtrack for slideware that can be bought from amazon for a fraction of the cost of a teacher.

    Further on this from the perspective of teaching older students and explaining to adults.

    I have met only a handful of people who can have a laptop open on their desk in front of them and at the same time pay full attention to something complex happening on the whiteboard. I have met hundreds of people who have no problem dividing their attention between handwritten notes and explanation on the board. I would not be surprised if it is something related to motor control and short term memory similar to the well known phenomenon of "death by powerpoint".

    --
    Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
    http://www.sigsegv.cx/
  6. Reading and listening still the best method by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The reason schools haven't changed is because reading texts and listening to teachers is still the best methods of teaching (see college). You don't need supercomputers to read - a book will do. And a teacher is still human. Both exercise the brain to train it to form connections.

    I think we've wasted a lot of money buying computers that, frankly, did little good. In my school the computers were mostly just an electronic version of a book (sit in front of the machine and read text). They could have saved several million and just used books.

    Of course computers are useful tools for writing papers & accessing google but that's all they are - just supplementary tools, not the center of the classroom.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  7. If it ain't broke... by pedantic+bore · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Classrooms today that are equipped with computers, smartboards, and whatnot don't seem to be doing much better in terms of basic literacy and reasoning than schools equipped with little more than slates and chalk a hundred years ago.

    I'm not saying that there isn't something positive that we could do with more tech in the classroom, but the current tech doesn't seem to be helping all that much. Tech for the sake of tech is just another expense.

    --
    Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
    1. Re:If it ain't broke... by spinkham · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Today's college students probably are dumb compared to a generation ago. That's because college is pretty much the new high school and attendance might as well be required. In lower education this is definitely more debatable.

      --
      Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups.
  8. arduino by Lord+Ender · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wire up some inputs and outputs, and let the kids program (with adult help) an arduino robot. Think "so what should it do when it sees motion? Sound an alrm? Blink a light?"

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    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
  9. None! by ogrizzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or at least, nothing fancier than a microscope or an electronic keyboard. Definitively no computing equipment.

  10. Exactly. by khasim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What's the goal? To improve the education process or to make sure that Laura Ingalls cannot recognize it as a school?

    What would she recognize? The blackboard? The alphabet and numbers in a row at the top of the front wall? A lot of child-sized desks and one or two adult-sized desks?

    Until we develop direct neural input technology and start pumping information straight into the brains of the students, the classroom will always look like a classroom.

    So stop worrying about how it LOOKS. Form follows function.

    If you want to improve it, look at the various experimental schools that have higher graduation rates and where the students score higher than the average.

    1. Re:Exactly. by Seumas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As little tech as possible. In fifth grade, it'd be nice to make sure children can read, write, and perform basic math. Maybe have a little general history, civics, and science knowledge. None of these things should require anything beyond a spiral notebook, a pen, some books, maybe a few reel to reel projector films, and an engaging teacher.

  11. As little as possible by shadowbearer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Teach them how to think for themselves first.

    SB

    --
    It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
  12. So happy to be seeing the responses here... by Pollux · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been a school teacher now for seven years, going on my eighth. Not only am I a math teacher, but I'm also the technology coordinator at our small rural school. And as I'm reading through the posts, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one here who believes that technology is no savior to the classroom.

    I was about to respond with my own post, but I'd rather reply to the idea started with the parent comment:

    What's the goal? To improve the education process or to make sure that Laura Ingalls cannot recognize it as a school?

    This should be the ultimate goal of teachers everywhere, to improve the education process. And if computers do exactly that, then let's put them in the hands of every student. But do computers really do that? If so, where's the proof? I've seen computers in the classroom now for fifteen years, and I was there with them in the classroom for four of them. If they were so fantastic, wouldn't we be seeing positive gains by now?

    Sadly, there is little proof. Technology has changed so rapidly, there has been little opportunity to draw a positive or negative conclusion about a particular technology before society labels it old-school. (In fact, few thorough studies have actually been done on educational technology. There is a really good article here that discusses this further.)

    So, to anyone who says that classrooms haven't changed in 100 years, I say to them this: has the human brain changed in the last 100 years? What's different about the way the brain learns now as opposed to 100 years ago? As a third grade teacher at my school once said, "It's amazing how much a child can learn when you hand them a popsicle stick dipped in molasses." I say stick to the field trips, the classroom projects, the crayons, and the Elmer's glue. Let a child experience our world, rather than just view it through a monitor.

    1. Re:So happy to be seeing the responses here... by Runaway1956 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "has the human brain changed in the last 100 years?" I've asked almost the same question, from a different perspective. I took my EMT training in 1980. I've never held a paying job as an EMT, nor have I ever recertified. It was a one-time thing, in an effort to learn how to help people who needed help in an emergency. The "real" EMT's have changed a lot since then. First priority has always been, self preservation and self protection - you can't help anyone else if you allow yourself to get hurt in the middle of a bad traffic accident. But, the focus has changed - you can't do your job anymore, unless you're all decked out in costume - gloves, safety glasses, etc, and a cop is there to direct traffic, and more. I found myself wondering if my training was still pertinent. Until, of course, your question ran through my mind. The human body hasn't changed. My training - and yours - are just as pertinent today, as it was all those decades ago. And, Laura Ingalls could teach the subject matter with which she is familiar just as effectively today as she could have 100 years ago. Of course, she couldn't teach second year chemistry or biology - assuming she could get by with the first year courses. Science has changed. But, readin' ritin' and 'rithmetic haven't changed at all for elementary school, and not much for the slow track people in high school. All right, Laura isn't ready to teach the kids on the fast track to college - but that is probably true of a lot of teachers who are teaching TODAY!

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  13. Re:Most important point in TFA by Miseph · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think this is one of the things where people get really worked up and overdo it, but there's a certain amount of truth to it. There are some really run-down schools out there, and while I don't think a school benefits from gold-plated toilet seats or wall hangings, there's certainly a baseline we should be shooting for. Making sure that it is properly ventilated, the exterior walls have appropriate insulation, the heat/AC system is adequate to keep the building at a reasonable temperature (not below 55ish, not above 75ish), enough room for every student to have a seat with some workspace, a cafeteria that can pass health inspections, clean floors and walls without large patches of missing or inappropriate surfacing, enough lights for students to see their work without straining their eyes... none of this is extravagant, and certainly there's some room for interpretation and subjectivity, but there certainly is a point at which a school needs to have decent facilities in order not to hamper education.

    Frankly, I think part of the problem is that public construction projects are a major source of corruption and kick-backs, so politicians have tremendous incentive to constantly renovate and build schools regardless of any actual need. Plus, it always looks good when you photo op at the groundbreaking, it shows you really care about kids and families, kissing hands and shaking babies is always a plus.

    --
    Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
  14. Re:Most important point in TFA by Auroch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Another reason is that no one has yet proved that better spaces mean better education. No matter how enthusiastically Cheryl Hines touts the test scores after her upcoming NBC show, School Pride, made over a Compton, Calif., elementary school, no solid research proves that student achievement is affected by physical surroundings. Many of our nation’s top-performing schools are getting the job done in rectangles filled with desks."

    Idiot. Sure, better spaces havn't been proven to improve learning... conclusively. Then again, neither have bad spaces proven to be detrimental... conclusively.

    But put a smart child into a room with 14 screaming, poop-throwing monkeys (or poorly socialized kids - same difference) and tell me that isn't hurting the learning process. You may have come from a rich, right-wing family that sent you to private school ... but many of us had to suffer with the special needs kids now working at mcdonalds. At least your special needs friends ended up running banks (although look how well that turned out).

    --
    Quartz Extreme and Core Image. Are there any other real reasons to spend all that money on generic hardware?
  15. of course the brain has changed by r00t · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First, we got better nutrition. This helps brains. Yay!

    Then, we changed the evolutionary selection pressure in a HUGE way. 100 years might not be all that long, but we're facing selection pressure like we've never had before: the sudden emergence of effective birth control. If your brain leads you to have "success" with birth control, you are STRONGLY selected against. If your brain leads you to "fail" at birth control, then your descendents will populate the world. There are a few other selection factors at work here too: kids don't have a tendency to starve without a father because of child support and welfare, so there is no evolutionary downside to getting pregnant by a man who won't stick around.

  16. Re:Most important point in TFA by Belial6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You missed the point and actually argued for the parent poster. It isn't a 'space' problem, it is a 'people' problem.

  17. crystal radios by johnrpenner · · Score: 2, Insightful

    they should be building their own crystal radio sets - they still need to get the 101 of what they are using with wifi and cell-phones.

  18. Yep, we're all in the matrix by Brannon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    and you are the one guy who took the red pill and can see what is really going on.

    But how do you know that you're not in yet another matrix? Maybe you should take a hundred more red pills to be sure--just whatever ones you can find will do.

  19. The best by flyingfsck · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The best learning aide is a pretty young teacher in a mini-skirt.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  20. Re:Most important point in TFA by FiloEleven · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Indeed.

    The most important part of education is having good teachers. There is no substitute for a good teacher, and they can't really be found by looking at who uses the shiniest tech or whose students perform the best on standardized tests, which are often little more than rote memorization. New is not always better, and it is not a failing of the school system that a student from the 19th century would recognize a contemporary classroom.

    That's not to say that contemporary technology is useless, or that there is no benefit in having teachers who know how to use it. Education has been around for a long time, and many things that we call "problems" are in actuality difficulties that must be continually overcome.

    In other words, there is no "silver bullet" for education. The effect that a good teacher has on good students (for not all students are created equal) may not become apparent for years or even decades. It often takes a good teacher to recognize a good teacher, and while a building conducive to concentration is important, it is the staff (and the pedagogy) that separates a good school from a bad one.

  21. Get back to the basics - also, throw out the dogma by OrangeTide · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Before jumping into technology, maybe we should teach them the basics first. How to read, write, speak, perform arithmetic, interact with each other in a constructive way, and maybe present this novel new concept of scientific reason and rational thought. Or we could just continue on the path of educational dogma seasoned with bits of poorly planned faux liberalism.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire