Irish ISP Wins Major Legal Victory Against Record Companies

An anonymous reader writes "The High Court in Dublin ruled today that there was no precedent in Irish law to force ISPs to identify and disconnect people accused of illegally downloading copyrighted files. The court case was spurred by objections to the recording industry's three-strikes system from Irish internet provider UPC. Earlier this year, Eircom, one of Ireland's other large ISPs, gave in and implemented the system, as we discussed previously. This resulted in many of the more 'technical' users leaving that ISP in droves. Nice to see an ISP willing to take a stand."

Comments

Economics

[Nidi62]

And people here say the economy doesn't fix itself when corporations do things consumers don't like.

Re:Economics

[RingDev]

Only if consumers have choice. In the US, were most of the country only has 1 or 2 choices for broad band services, there is no meaningful choice.

-Rick

Re:Economics

[RapmasterT]

Only if consumers have choice. In the US, were most of the country only has 1 or 2 choices for broad band services, there is no meaningful choice.

-Rick

Or even just 1 choice. Personally, I can get my broadband (god I hate how misused that term is) access from Comcast, or I can get a dial-up modem, that's my choices. So I'm functionally under a monopoly, if Comcast does something I don't like, like eliminating USENET service without lowering my bill, then I'm free to suck it up or do without internet.

Re:Economics

[erroneus]

It's all a matter of where the incentive lies. In this case, the ISP probably doesn't get any money from the recording industry at all so they have no incentive to support their interests.

My first reaction was "well, technical users probably use their support services a LOT less often and so cost them less in terms of support and so the loss of their tech savvy customers is a big loss in terms of support costs per customer." That should factor into additional incentives to care about their tech savvy users but certainly not enough by itself.

Re:Economics

[MBGMorden]

Exactly. In smaller countries like this, it is feasible for multiple companies to build out infrastructure.

In the US however, we're much more spread out. 40 out of our 50 states are larger than entire country of Ireland. It's just much harder for multiple companies to cover that much area, particularly with so much of the mid-west being sparsely populated farmland.

In almost everything but large cities you have at most 2 choices for broadband. Some don't even have that. I myself have only the DSL offered by the phone company. No cable access is available. Luckily I'm fairly satisfied with the speed and such we get, albeit at a higher cost than most pay, but if I wasn't, my only option to change ISP's would be to sell the house and move.

Re:Economics

[Lumpy]

Satellite is not really broadband. Anyone who has had to live with it for more than a day will agree to this.

Most of the united states has 0 to 1 choices for broadband, large swaths of this country has ZERO broadband accessibility. By geographical square meters, most of the USA has no connectivity other than Dial up or Satellite.

Based on population, it's still dismal. I know people in NYC that cant get broadband. CableTV Broadband wont work, and DSL wont work as the building has wires from 1907, or were half assed and can not carry what is needed. They can watch low channel cable TV, but the RG59 30% shield garbage installed by the lowest bidder in the late 80's just wont cut it. And the phone wires are as bad or worse.

That's the problem in the United states... Companies whine about letting competition use "their" wires, while ignoring the fact that they took Public money to build those wires. Corporations here like to believe that any public funds for telecommunications are a free gift to their shareholders.

Re:Economics

[Anonymous Coward]

Same old rubbish US wahwahwah excuse. No one is talking about US broadband covering every single inch of the land. Any decent size city can have dozens of ISPs, but they don't. We still have the silly system of local authorities giving companies local monopolies rather than having them compete. We have companies blocking municipalities from installing their own infrastructure, and winning, thanks to legal delaying tactics. Only when we stop this bullshit will we get competition and better service, with customers having the ability to choose from various suppliers instead of 1 DSL, 1 cable, and if they're lucky, FiOS.

Re:Economics

[scot4875]

In the US however, we're much more spread out.

Please quit spreading this misinformation. We aren't more spread out than several countries that completely kick our asses in both rural and metro internet access.

And being spread out *still* doesn't provide any justification why there would be effective monopolies with poor service in most major metro areas.

U.S. citizens are reamed for Internet access. Stop playing the Stockholm syndrome victim and acting as an industry apologist.

--Jeremy

Re:Economics

[frank_adrian314159]

... the economy doesn't fix itself when corporations do things consumers don't like.

Yeah. That's why there's ACTA.

Re:Economics

[sjames]

So you're claiming that as long as it is in theory possible to pay a gadzillion bucks you don't have there is a market choice?

By that theory, government isn't a monopoly either. I COULD in theory hire the world's largest mercenary army to topple it and install my own.

I could also point out that a T1 is NOT consumer broadband at all.

Re:Economics

[sjames]

So of course, in New York City there's hundreds of broadband providers to choose from due to the very high population density. OH, WAIT!

Re:Economics

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to see the geographical breakdown between ISP's in Ireland. If a monopoly doesn't exist for any particular region, then yes. Your claim is substantiated.

Eircom are a former state owned incumbent, they don't quite have a total monopoly but are many people's "default choice" of provider. Because the Irish market is quite small there are relatively few resellers and outside of major urban areas there are few other choices apart from mobile based operators.

The original article mentioned "This resulted in many of the more 'technical' users leaving that ISP in droves". They didn't exactly attract technical users before. Until quite recently their default ADSL package had only a 1gb download limit and charged 36 cents PER MEGABYTE after that. For a while it was actually cheaper to use mobile broadband. They have improved their offerings a bit recently but its not brilliant compared with elsewhere in Europe.

Re:Economics

[Rising Ape]

Here in the UK, BT are deploying VDSL2-based FTTC despite having to open their networks to others, with the prices they charge to others being regulated. So it can be done.

Re:Economics

[Ephemeriis]

Or you can get a business class line, like a T1.

You have choice. You just don't want to pay for it.

First of all, a T1 barely qualifies as "broadband" these days. It's only 1.5 Mbps. That's not horrible... But it isn't terribly impressive when compared to the 10+ Mbps advertised for most residential connections.

Second, a business class connection like a T1 is not a "choice" for a residential connection.

That's like suggesting that somebody build their own cell tower because the reception is spotty where they live.

Now why is it

[Moryath]

that the only sane people seem to be in other countries? In the US, the normal people get trodden on all over the place, the idea of a "choice" of ISP is a joke, and despite the prohibition on ex post facto laws, the Supreme Court ruled that a bought-off Congress could keep extending "copyright term" ad infinitum - even setting it to a "million bajillion" years if they felt like it.

 

As a UPC customer

[Gopher971]

I'm delighted with the stand they are taking. I was previously with Eircom and was one of the thousands who left when they caved into IMRO. While I woldn't case myself as purer than pure, I do frequently download iso's for various Linux distributions.

As an aside, I've found UPC to be a much superior ISP, with great customer service, not like the bad old days of NTL.

UPC...

[mariushm]

Just a note ... UPC is not an Irish ISP in particular ... they're also in other countries, like Romania where I am. In other countries it's called Chello but they're slowly re-branding in some: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chello

Don't claim victory just yet

[Adrian Lopez]

If ACTA were law I suspect the court's decision would go the other way. Given the inaccuracy of DMCA accusations so far, any kind of three-strikes law that doesn't require three convictions would be disastrous. Heck, even a "three convictions" rule would be a problem given how important the Internet has become to our daily lives. Any law calling for a user's disconnection (except in cases of parole/probation) would doubtless constitute a curtailment of that person's freedom of speech and association (whether or not the law ends up recognizing it as such).

I don't think it's too much to ask for copyright holders to prove their case before penalizing users, and I don't think it's fair for such penalties to include disconnection once the term of conviction is up for those who are guilty.

RTFA: Not a major victory -- not a victory at all

[hdon]

I saw this story covered at BoingBoing earlier and I have to say -- has anyone actually read this article?

This is not a major victory. This is a temporary set-back for the record labels who wish for overreaching legal powers to stop the unstoppable.

Here are some very meaningful excerpts from the same story covered by the Irish Times:

"...the judge said laws were not in place in Ireland to enforce disconnections over illegal downloads... this gap in legislation meant Ireland was not complying with European law."

"The judge made it very clear that an injunction would be morally justified but that the Irish legislature had failed in its obligation to confer on the courts the right to grant such injunctions, unlike other EU states."

"Irish Recorded Music Association director-general Dick Doyle said his office would pressure the Government to reform the law in favour of record labels."

RTFA

Oh sure, let the market decide...

[HeckRuler]

The problem with your assumption is that Eirecom is going to lose money off of this. Now, I'm not sure how it works in Ireland, but if this exact scenario went down in the USA, Eirecom would be congradulating themselves as they found a way to shluff off all the "band-width hogs". You know, those 'technical users' that actually use the connection they purchase. ISPs here make bank on mom and pop who check their email.

Re:Bullcrap

[Nadaka]

The density argument is also bullshit. With a the exception of a few ultra dense asian cities, US cities are no more or less dense than similar sized cities around the world. And we still have high priced crappy service with mono|duo-polies is those markets as well.