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What If We Ran Universities Like Wikipedia?

Pickens writes "Do university bureaucracies still make sense in the era of networks? At the recent Educause conference, David J. Staley laid out the findings of a focus group he conducted asking educators what a college would look like if it operated like Wikipedia. The 'Wiki-ized University' wouldn't have formal admissions, says Staley; people could enter and exit as they wished and the university would consist of voluntary and self-organizing associations of teachers and students 'not unlike the original idea for the university, in the Middle Ages.' In addition, the curriculum of the 'Wiki-ized University' would be intellectually fluid, and instead of tenure, professors' longevity 'would be determined by the community.' Staley predicts that a new form of academic organization is emerging that will be driven by volunteerism. 'We do see some idea today of how "volunteer teaching" might look: think of the faculty at a place like the University of Phoenix. Most teaching faculty have day jobs — and in fact are hired because they have day jobs — and teach at the university for a nominal stipend,' writes Staley. 'If something like the Phoenix model is what develops in a wiki-ized university setting, this would suggest that a new type of "professorate" will emerge, consisting of those who teach or publish or conduct research for their own personal or professional satisfaction or for some other nonmonetized benefit.'"

16 of 380 comments (clear)

  1. I'm not so sure. by bigredradio · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most teaching faculty have day jobs — and in fact are hired because they have day jobs — and teach at the university for a nominal stipend

    I would guess that they are working a 2nd job to make ends meet. Not for the "love" of teaching.

  2. Jaw-droppingly bad idea by Huntr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The lack of real expertise on some (many?) subjects, the petty squabbles to protect inconsequential fiefdoms, zero accountability.

    I fail to see how a wiki model could remove all that from universities.

    Boom. Roasted.

    1. Re:Jaw-droppingly bad idea by martin-boundary · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Having a degree is simply stating, "I can put up with bullshit, fill out forms when needed, and listen to those with power," and really has nothing to do with actual, real-world ability.

      Errm, isn't that what working in a corporation is all about?

    2. Re:Jaw-droppingly bad idea by apoc.famine · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The problem is that this is entirely dependent on what you want to do, and in what subject area you're studying.

      I'm in a PhD program doing some climate related stuff which is highly dependent on computational fluid dynamics. I'm modeling the fluid dynamics of the North Atlantic to better help us understand its carbon uptake and transport.

      The computational resources alone are waaaay out of most people's league. Without a grant for tens of thousands of dollars to put together a Rocks cluster with a high-bandwidth back end and many terabytes of high RPM storage and scratch drives, the work I'm doing would run in little better than real-time on your average desktop. No use in modeling 80 years of ocean circulation if it takes you that long to do it!

      The experts I have access to far exceed what I can find on the internet. I got flown to France this spring for a conference with the rockstars of my field. I talked shop over a bottle of fine wine with the guy who wrote the seminal textbook for my field. I had lunch overlooking the harbor with a guy who wrote major parts of the IPCC climate models that the US uses.

      While I agree with your first major paragraph, I have to completely disagree with the second. If I wasn't going to a major university, I wouldn't have had these chances. I wouldn't have tens of thousands of dollars of computation hardware at my fingertips. I wouldn't have known about some of the people I've met and learned from. I wouldn't have been granted a $1600 Euro plant ticket to go rub shoulders with the giants of my field.

      I've learned more from Wikipedia (no, not the sources... the actual wiki pages) than I could ever have lerned in college. If the information is out there, why pay for a professor to present it to you when we now have a machine that presents it to us for free?

      That shows a lacking of your college program, or a failure on your part. As an undergraduate, I learned a ton from a professor who had retired, but still had a full machine shop in the bottom of the main science building as his "office". He didn't teach a class, but he taught more than most of the other professors there. Again, I agree with your first major paragraph. But although that is true, it doesn't mean that a college education is without merit. No offense, (to you and all the rest) but what you're saying more likely applies to CE than to most other college degrees. There's more philosophy and code on the internet than you'd ever be able to get through. Most code can be run on your average desktop. Outside of mainframes, there's not much you can't model (slowly) on affordable hardware.

      Just don't apply that to college as a whole - I'm sure that you can learn just as much English Lit online as you can in school. However, there are many fields where that's simply not true. Trust me...I wouldn't be suffering through graduate school right now if I could do this outside of it. I had a decent job, decent pay, and a lot of free time before this. I gave all that up for the things I've described. I'm not about to be running hundreds to thousands of gigaflops at home, with tends to hundreds of terabytes of storage. I can't easily get access to that on the internet. I can't get personal access to the people who are leaders in my field. Sit on a picnic table with them and pick their brain. That's what college can give you. If you can get what you need to do your job on the internet, great. Not everybody can.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
  3. Uh... by tthomas48 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The future is the University of Phoenix? The one that has one of the highest default rates on student loans because it's graduates can't get jobs?

    Sure. That's the future.

    If we were really talking about the Wiki-ization of Universities I would image we would have boards of experts to decide who the professors were. It might resemble a university bureaucracy.

  4. Phoenix Model by dasdrewid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    consisting of those who teach or publish or conduct research for their own personal or professional satisfaction or for some other nonmonetized benefit.

    So, the University of Phoenix, a for profit university, is the model he's using to determine that in the future, professors and researchers will not be doing so for profit. Something seems really, really wrong here.

    --
    No trespassing. Violators will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
  5. Middle Age Universities now?? BAD IDEA by dr-alves · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In the middle ages interested (and I mean wealthy) people would be able to grasp multiple areas of expertise (think leonardo da vinci).

    Since then things have gotten a WHOLE LOT more complicated, i.e., Would we want civil engineers building bridges if they could skip structural courses?

    Professional expertises are narrower and narrower and with that the margin for freedom in terms of what is required to finish a degree is smaller.

    The world is more complex, society is more complex, and while there is certainly some wiggle room for each individual the bottom line is that highly specialized workers require a highly specialized, structured, education.

  6. Um, how about we don't? by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Run universities like Wikipedia? So you can have tenured nazi's running around like they own certain subjects wholesale, like some Wikipedia admins do? So "truth" is only relative to what the most powerful group of professors (admins) that give a damn about the subject matter?

    No thanks. The USA has one of the best university systems in the world, flaws and all, but running it like Wikipedia would just insure that the most incompetent and most vocal (who are often the same) will have an even larger voice.

    --
    Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
  7. University is not about learning per se. by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The businesses I've been in cared about the degree because it showed
    1) you could finish a 4+ year project
    2) which had lots of jerks along the way and you didn't melt down
    3) that had ridiculous hours at times
    4) that had absolutely inflexible deadlines at times and you made them.
    5) you had to communicate a lot with others.

    ---

    Other that than, I can't count how many times someone is moved laterally away from their degree within 18 months of being hired.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  8. Re:Degrees by Moryath · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Given the number of lawsuits against "University of Phoenix" - which is really just a big fucking degree mill - when people found out that their degrees were non-accredited in many cases, this is a key point to consider. "Wiki University" is more likely to be just like Wikipedia in general: corrupt, based entirely on "who you know" or "did your viewpoint contradict some corrupt loony with far too much crowd following or access to the delete/ban buttons."

  9. Re:Degrees by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    On the other hand, I think it would be nice to hand someone their resume back filled with [citation needed]s.

  10. Universities are not just for teaching by cjonslashdot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Universities that sponsor research provide a more important function than teaching. Fundamental research is not done well by private industry. Throughout history the arts and the sciences have always needed benefactors. This is still true today. A professor in a science is paid to perform research with no known benefit. Such research is extremely important, because fundamental research seldom has a known benefit. However, eventually benefits become apparent, much later. Private industry does not like to sponsor fundamental research for this reason because the ROI is unclear. That leaves universities with NSF grants. A wikipedia-like university would not be able to pay scientist professors, since the assumption is that work would be volunteer. Then who would pay for the salaries of these highly skilled people as well as the research labs?

  11. Practical Work by Alcoholist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How does that work in such a college.

    So guy shows up on campus and says he's a electrician and he's going to teach anyone interested. All kinds of students flock over looking to learn a trade. He's got a whole bunch of references, but half of them don't answer the phone and at least a quarter of the rest are just references that lead to the other references.

    He explains that this course is just a stub and hopefully some better electricians will come along and make it better and safer. But hey, let's go and get you your ticket!

    --
    Bibo Ergo Sum.
  12. Re:Degrees by gtall · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think it is worse than that. Let's look at theory of *whatever*. I do a lot mathematics. How many theoretical mathematicians would this new uni support? I'm guessing not a lot. So, if we were to have this back when number theory had no practical applications unlike as it does today in security, we'd probably have no number theory upon which to base our computer security that underlies our new web based companies like Amazon and countless others. How do we measure that loss before the loss can be seen?

    What about physics? Quantum theory was developed because a lot of physicists and mathematicians thought it would be really neat to understand nature in a deep level. There were no applications obvious at that time yet it underlies much of modern electronic computation. Why would they get funded to do their research? How about Einstein and relativity...the use of which makes GPS actually work. No obvious use, why would yer basic Joe Gimme-a-Job schlump take a course in relativity?

    How about philosophy? Descartes had some pretty neat algebraic ideas...no one ever conceived of them before him and in their original text, they are very obscure. Yet much of modern mathematics is built on algebraic theories. I cannot imagine him getting a job. How about the logicians who worked on philosophical logic? Some of that spawned modal logic which in turn spawned Floyd-Hoare logic and the whole notion of proving programs correct with respect to some mathematical specification. It is used intimately in security arguments. How do we fund the philosophers now? How do we predict which philosophical theories will be of use in the future? What about Aristotle? He invented logic. How does he get funded when the common man couldn't see what use it would ever be as short-sighted as they were that they couldn't see modern computers?

    The basic problem with numb-nuts ideas such as wiki-university is that it is spawned by Business School Product who can see no value in anything that doesn't immediately translate into increased sales of widgets. It pretty much consigns humans to no greater intellectual curiosity than what Business School Product can put a price on. And that price has nothing to do with any future value. It is a prescription for consigning the human race to extinction; it would merely become an experiment it how short term gain will doom long term sustainability.

  13. Re:Missing The Point by mr_mischief · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The undergraduate portion of an MD's education is mostly just qualifying that person to get into medical school. It's the specialist school, the clinicals, the internship, the residency, and the board exams that make someone an doctor. It's not the premed certificate.

  14. No, what you got in CE by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Was a solid, theoretical, background. If you don't recognize the value, well maybe you just need to work for more time.

    I work for a CE department and we see older students quite often. Not people who are changing careers or the like, though that happens, but people employed as engineers, being sent by their company. The reason is they are good workers, smart, etc, but they never learned the theoretical electronics background. So they run in to problems they have trouble solving, or solve sub optimally because while they know some of the practice, they don't have a good grasp on the theory.

    Also don't think the "Putting up with bullshit, doing as you are told, and sticking with something for 4 years," is useless either. That is part of what companies want. They want someone who understands that work isn't fun it is, well, work. That it isn't about doing whatever strikes your muse, it is about doing what you are asked to do, and following through on things in the long term.

    However if you really think you learned more for Wikipedia than your university courses then it says one or more of these three things, none of which reflect well on you:

    1) You suck at learning. You did a bad job paying attention in class and trying to grasp all you were being taught. You need things broken down for you in to small, media-size chunks and put in simplified terms for you to be interested.

    2) You are lazy at learning. You just wanted to do the bare minimum, memorize what you needed for tests without much understanding, just what you needed to coast by. You didn't bother to learn anymore, or use any of the amazing learning resources you had (like the professors).

    3) You chose a really shitty school. Means you either lacked the acumen to make a good choice or the drive/ability to actually go to a good one.

    If you really think you learned more off a wiki than in school, that says some rather poor things of you.