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Apple Deprecates Their JVM
Mortimer.CA writes "In some recent release notes Apple has deprecated their JVM: 'As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is deprecated.' In the past Sun (now Oracle) has always let Apple do this: 'Apple Computer supplies their own version of Java. Use the Software Update feature (available on the Apple menu) to check that you have the most up-to-date version of Java for your Mac.' I wonder how much heads-up Oracle was given for this change, and if the Java team has any code ready to go, or whether they'll have to ramp up porting for Mac OS 10.7 (aka 'Lion')."
So they have dropped default support for flash, then java, now they just launched their app store.
This is really starting to look more and more like the iphone. I just hope they don't start dropping multitasking and third party software sources.
As long as users are able to install non-appstore apps, install flash and install java, I'm fine with it.
This seems like a similar move to the obsoleting of Flash. Cross platform app development was useful when Apple was struggling to compete. Now Apple doesn't see any particular need for cross platform apps, because the breadth of app types is already covered by native Cocoa apps. They won't exclude Java in the way that they excluded Flash on the iPhone. But there's no need for them to spend development time on bundling it with the OS.
I still fall back to my various Linux boxen a lot but for the actual IDE, I find OSX does fulfill the so called 'ultimate developer's machine' - I actually know a former MS-SQL developer collegue who has converted because it does work.
Let's hope either OpenJDK or IcedTea can fill in the gaps...
The danger is that they are going to force people down the Lion/AppStore route on the desktop - and the size of the desktop user-base will probably surprise them and bite them where it hurts most, their wallet - not everything is iPhone/iPad
Java gaming nut - http://www.retep.org/ or for the rail http://uktra.in/
Honestly, with the talk of app stores, the ridiculous talk of macbook air's being the 'future of computing', and other things from yesterdays announcements, I will be keeping my eye closely on linux for the time being. I'm not sure I'm going to stay with Apple for my next computer. They seem to be going in a direction I'm not comfortable with.
In the past I've heard macs referred to as the ultimate developer's machine, with a full UNIX, all the gnu tools, a nice UI (with X if you need it), and nicely integrated laptop hardware.
MacOS is actually based on the mach kernel, and not UNIX. /pedantic
The issue here is that java is full of security holes, and is being actively exploited in the wild. If you have a normal computer (ie a non-mac), then you can download & install the latest java version from sun/oracle.
But if you have a mac, you can't. Big brother Apple has decreed that mac users aren't smart enough to make their own decisions on installing updated versions java.
Your only choices are don't use java, or wait until Apple decides to release an updated version of java and hope you don't get pwned in the meantime.
This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at the same level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X.
Obvious reason: people aren't using the Apple-produced runtime in Mac Applications?
Applications developed in Objective-C / Cocoa are more specific to the OS X platform, providing Apple a competitive advantage when developers build their apps using Cocoa, instead of something portable like Java.
Not in Apple's best interest for Mac apps to be developed using Java.
Not only can they be run on other platforms, but Java-based apps may not conform to Apple UI design guidelines
Anyone who wants Java can install it. Oracle don't release a Mac version right now because previously Apple have done that work for them. But that'll no doubt change if Oracle are still wanting to promote Java. And even if not, GPL says someone else will.
They don't need to create an Installer, they need to create an entire port to a new operating system. The low-level threading and memory management, the GUI.. who wants their Java apps to be running under X11 on Mac?
- jon
Ganymede, a GPL'ed metadirectory for UNIX
Really? I mean doesn't that seem a little extreme, shouldn't it still work pretty close to the previous versions of OS X? Seriously just asking,
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In the past I've heard macs referred to as the ultimate developer's machine, with a full UNIX, all the gnu tools, a nice UI (with X if you need it), and nicely integrated laptop hardware. But Java is still one of the top languages on the planet, so if Apple really stops keeping it up to date that could put a nail in that coffin. Heck, I'm pretty sure the Apple Store has a big pile of Java back there...
Apple doesn't maintain a distribution of python, but you're still able to run Python on OS X. The only thing that's really going to change is that it won't be Apple doing the work, it will be Oracle.
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thing is apple did the first port, not SUN. I don't think that apple will graciously give there JRE code-base to oracle.
Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
We have rather a lot of internally-developed applications in Java, and some of them are substantial. Since there's not a hope in hell of us porting millions of lines of Java code to Objective-C, no matter how much Apple spins things, should we be considering saying in future that Apple hardware is no longer a supported platform and that all users will have to migrate to Linux or Windows on their desktops and laptops instead? (While it is possible to use Apple hardware to run non-OSX, there's no real point in buying it specially for the purpose of running non-OSX when other hardware with a lower price premium will do a perfectly adequate job of it.)
Mind you, adequate availability of a JVM for the platform from another vendor (e.g., Oracle) could well be an acceptable solution. It's just a shame that the announcement is not clearer in this respect. But then it's not exactly like Apple are very good at providing proper support for developers who aren't targeting Jobs's latest platform du jour.
"Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
Java is not going away for SERVER SIDE development. What will replace it? .NET? (joke)
Apple isn't going to 'stop supporting Java'.
Watch Apple not care.
And all along I thought it was because it just wasn't ready for production use.
The BSDs are still working on getting ZFS good enough to use. Everyone I knew that tried it on OS X said it was shit.
You might want to go read up on Grand Central Dispatch.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
I don't think they will because I believe that Apple would rather developers use Objective-C over Java for OSX development for the very same reasons they would rather developers use Objective-C over Flash for iOS development.
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I think a lot of Apple devs have been asking for this anyway. I usually stick with the "tried and true" but my colleagues were very vocal about Apple being slow to bring the new features for Java into their JDK.
Now that these people finally got part of what they wanted, let's see if Oracle or more likely OpenJDK steps in and gives them the rest. I personally look forward to helping bring Cocoa to OpenJDK and hope I'm not alone.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
The problem with Unix defined as a marketing buzzword is that it leaves out a lot of important details that actual Unix users care about.
It allows for a degree of "inconsistency and chaos" that Mac Zealots would eviscerate Linux for.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
However, if they pull through an App Store for the Mac, which doesn't even have the "it's on a Phone" excuse, they will have effectively succeeded in solving the 20+ year old problem of how to actually sell "shareware" aka "Free/Premium".
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The $64,000 question is whether Oracle will now start offering a Java download for OS X - if so, then the Mac will have the same status as other platforms, where you get your Java VM from Oracle. Since Apple's Java releases have tended to lag quite a way behind Sun in the past that might not be a bad thing (although the downside is that the horrible Java auto-updater might make an appearance).
OTOH, if Jobs is really determined to turn the Mac into an oversized iPad that can only run native software then, yes, there will have to be a bit of an exodous. However - there's no reason to decide right now (its not like Java is going to vanish from Mac tomorrow - and you weren't expecting the next version of Java to appear on Mac anytime soon, anyway).
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
Watch Apple not care.
People who use Macs, and need to log into Juniper's SSL VPN solution will care, as the software needs a JVM to work. So does the web interface of a lot Brocade and EMC stuff.
While Java desktop apps may not be popular, there's a lot of stuff out there that does need it.
cross-platform Java development and Mac development were different enough that if you were using Java it was because you wanted it to run on other platforms and therefore didn't care if it looked like a good Mac app.
You, like numerous other Slashdot users, appear to have forgotten the model-view-controller or multi-tier paradigm. An application is split between a front-end, which interacts with the user, and a back-end, which interacts with the data. Ideally, an application would have a separate front-end per platform and a common back-end. I have applied this philosophy in one of my video game projects: the physics of the game world are the same in the PC version and the Game Boy Advance version because they build from the same source tree, but the front-end is very different. But in order for this to work, all platforms have to share a common language in which the back-end can be written.
Something tells me your missing the point.
No other company did the work to take the browser from KHTML to webkit, which is now used in almost every phone OS, including Android & RIM.
Apple gets shit all the time for being closed. They're not always. Examples: http://www.apple.com/opensource/
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
I'm sure they would, but is it very likely that people are going to start doing OSX only development? Apple doesn't really have that much marketshare, and as this very incident once again shows, it's dangerous to trust them.
If Mac loses Java, then Mac loses Java programs, not gain native ones. And frankly, Mac can ill afford to lose software.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Qt is in most every way better than Java for client-side graphical application development. However, Qt is not completely free, requires that your app be compiled for each platform it is distributed for, and does not provide access to Java libraries. The last reason there is why we use it at my work.