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Colleges May Start Forcing Switch To eTextbooks

An anonymous reader writes "Here's the new approach under consideration by college leaders and textbook manufacturers: 'Colleges require students to pay a course-materials fee, which would be used to buy e-books for all of them (whatever text the professor recommends, just as in the old model).' That may be 'the best way to control skyrocketing costs and may actually save the textbook industry from digital piracy,' proponents claim."

28 of 419 comments (clear)

  1. Students will complain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Currently, students at most universities aren't required to buy textbooks. They can borrow them at the library (frequently on reserve) and save money (at the cost of time and convenience). I can't see this working without some opt-out mechanism at the very least.

    1. Re:Students will complain by vlm · · Score: 5, Informative

      They can borrow them at the library (frequently on reserve) and save money

      In ye olden days, when we could get 5 cent per page photocopies, the university bookstore never seemed to sell any any books that cost much more than 5 cents per page, if you know what I mean.

      The response of the professors/TAs/instructors was highly variable.

      The publishing industry solution was wait for photocopy prices to raise to like ten cents or whatever it is now, and also bulk the heck out of the books like a walmart customer on HFCS. So, a 600 page calculus tome is going to cost me $60 to photocopy or $80 new... may as well buy it.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:Students will complain by zeugma-amp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This will also kill the used book market.

      That's the idea.

      --
      This is an ex-parrot!
    3. Re:Students will complain by tophermeyer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Absolutely serious when I say this, my college Fraternity used pledges to do just that (probably still do).

      All the guys taking a given class would throw in a few bucks for one copy of the text, then as if by magic we would receive an electronic version.

      Terrible copyright infringement, pyramid scheming, slavery, hazing, and all that. But it was so convenient.

    4. Re:Students will complain by LoudMusic · · Score: 4, Funny

      Absolutely serious when I say this, my college Fraternity used pledges to do just that (probably still do).

      All the guys taking a given class would throw in a few bucks for one copy of the text, then as if by magic we would receive an electronic version.

      Terrible copyright infringement, pyramid scheming, slavery, hazing, and all that. But it was so convenient.

      You mean righteous distribution of knowledge?

      --
      No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
    5. Re:Students will complain by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      For a few years (as a grad student) I taught at a community college to augment my pathetic stipend. I was given a remarkable amount of control over the courses. Initially I made it a point to not assign readings out of an overpriced book, the first semester I'd say that a third of my readings came from online articles. Almost as soon as the other faculty discovered what I was doing I was threatened with termination and a letter was sent to my committee chair at the university (where it was promptly thrown away). Ostensibly I was hurting the students by not forcing them to read material that the other entry level courses were. Realistically I was threatening their profit margin by not using the most up-to-date edition of a 50 year old text.

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    6. Re:Students will complain by commodore64_love · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Something ye forgot:

      YOU CAN'T RESELL E-TEXTS. When I was in college I used to buy books for about $50 used, get my work out of it, and then sell it for $40 at the end of semester. NET COST: $10.

      Now this e-text idea will prevent us from doing that. It will end-up costing MORE not less.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    7. Re:Students will complain by bhcompy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My college professor for the GE philosophy course I had to take was also the department chair and union president. He said that the other professors were all scumbags and that there is nothing we need in a 150$ textbook that isn't available in a cheap book that may be many years old for the bulk of GE type courses. He also said that charging students for things like Scantron sheets is just another way to punish the students despite all the fees they already pay. To back it up, the only required book was 15$ at Borders(and 0.50 used online) and tests were done on lined paper(for essay) or on an old fashioned circle your answer multiple-choice. Because of his status, no one could threaten him with termination and he'd probably spit in their face if someone tried to. I wish there were more people like him in the college teaching ranks

    8. Re:Students will complain by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Funny

      At my college we'd buy our books for $300 each, and at the end of the semester our professors would bludgeon us into unconsciousness with them! And we were 'appy to 'ave it that way!

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    9. Re:Students will complain by runlevelfour · · Score: 4, Informative

      I am curious where you went to school. Mine tended cost around $50-120 and if you sold it back in mint condition you might get half of that back. Any sort of blemish (dog ear, crease in cover or a page, any marks, worn edges) immediately cut even that miserable sale price in half. Then they restocked the used books at about 10% less than new (regardless of their condition they cost the same in spite of the fact they screwed you based on damage).

      Only recently has this monopoly been broken with the advent of online textbook purchasing, and prices are a bit more reasonable on the new prices. They still rape you on the used purchase/sell-back end but that can be circumvented if you keep an ear out and find people who just had the class and you're about to take it. Cut out the middle-man and both sides are happy. Higher learning has become such a racket driven by lust for profit.

      Recently taking more classes we used e-book versions which I say was even more of a rip-off. The e-book cost about 40-60% of the dead-tree version, and they revoke access after about six months to a year, and of course you can't sell it back at all. Maybe I am weird but I prefer to keep my textbooks as reference and refreshers.

  2. Just a way to kill the used book market... by RocketRabbit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The irony of this proposal is that many professors, realizing that book prices are just obscene in the academic market, are preparing their own materials and giving them to the students for the cost of printing them.

    This is clearly just an attempt by the textbook marketers to kill the secondhand book sellers.

    As my wife says, "calculus has not changed much in the last 6 years, but my textbook has gone through 3 revisions in that time!"

    1. Re:Just a way to kill the used book market... by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is exactly right. Somehow the fine article proposes "saving the textbook industry" as something we'd actually want to do. The textbook industry adds no value to your education. All value comes from the university. The best thing for everyone, student, professor, parent, or administrator is for the textbook industry to die and be replaced by online, collaborative, peer reviewed textbooks. The textbook publishing industry adds no value, and is nothing but a parasite on the education industry.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:Just a way to kill the used book market... by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In what way? Not being flippant, I'm genuinely unsure as to what about calculus has changed in the last 50 years.

      I believe the GP was arguing that it's not calculus itself that has gotten easier, but rather the presentation, rigor, etc. in the way it is taught.

      Aside from the use of calculators, mathematical software and such, which is not insignificant, calculus itself is not easier.

      I learned calculus (not too long ago actually) from Tom Apostol's text, which pulls no punches in terms of mathematical rigor and formalism. Not proofs for the sake of proofs, mind you, but formalism that demonstrates the power of calculus and helps you to understand how it works.

      The reason I was taught that way was because I chose to take a calculus sequence intended for math majors, though. At my institution, fifty years ago, everyone learned from a book like Apostol (perhaps another text, dumbed down slightly).

      Today, textbooks are often about case study problems, using your graphing calculator, etc. I'm not arguing that this is necessarily a bad thing, but it has shifted the focus away from rigorous formalism (which most students have more trouble with) and to types of problems and methods of solution that are, on the whole, easier and simpler. The overall content is still there, but the presentation and methodology is, I think, more user-friendly to many students.

  3. I'm guessing it's not about cost control, really. by FooAtWFU · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They just want a more effective way to shut used-textbook merchants out of the market so they can more fully exploit their students.

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  4. I expect the following: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Book prices will still remain close to $100.
    You'll lose your right to resell your old books.
    Accessibility for us disabled folks will be an artificial extra cost, to satisfy the imaginary property brigade who think text-to-speech isn't a right.

  5. A more reasonable proposition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Universities collaborate to produce textbooks (pay the author, an editor, possibly some layout/graphics staff) and then release the finished textbooks under a Creative Commons license (by-sa-nc for example).

    You know, to provide better service and education for their students and society as a whole.

  6. Textbooks are a total scam by EmagGeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    By the time I was in grad school at GaTech, undergraduate courses were spinning revs every quarter, and the only thing that would change would be the problems. This eliminated the book buy-back market almost entirely, because profs of course would require problems from the book.

    Undergrad level calc has not changed in the last 20 years. There's no reason someone shouldn't be able to use a calc book handed down from a parent or older sibling. Yet, term after term, every student is nearly compelled to spend $140 on a new book.

    It's no wonder our educational system from cradle to PhD is a complete failure. Institutions are too focused on productizing and profiteering rather than growing the world's best talent.

    1. Re:Textbooks are a total scam by IICV · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How about we stop caring if students just copy the right answer from somewhere on their homework? It's a participation grade anyway - the goal of homework isn't for the student to take some questions home and return one day with the answer (that's what grad school is for), the goal is for the student to spend some time thinking about the problems and trying to work them out; ideally successfully but the important part is the thinking and working, not having a correct answer. If the student really wants to know what the solutions are and how to work them out, they'll come in to discussion section or office hours (or lecture!).

      And if the student is the sort of person who just copies the right answers from somewhere, then he's fucked for the quizzes, midterms and finals anyway.

      Basically, we care waaaay too much about whether or not people have correct answers on homework. It's like grading a weight training class on how far up people can lift their weights, and then complaining that some people use a crane - that's your own damn fault for losing sight of the fact that the metric is not the goal in and of itself. Those people will fail during the final anyway (when you have to wrestle a grizzly bear).

  7. Save the textbook industry? by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is that why the prices are gargantuan compared to other books?

    You know what the difference usually is between the fourth and fifth edition of a textbook is? A little bit of reformatting, and a couple extra anecdotes. Yet the professors are told that they need to use the new material and they force it down on the students so that someone who wrote a book 5 years ago gets some income for the next 10 years, or maybe its the publishers, I don't know.

    Point is - they set up the used book stores in colleges for a reason, so you could re-use text books. In some fields this has worked well, but in other fields, authors have just started to rehash their books to make money.

    In all honesty - education material should not be privatized, their shouldn't be an issue with digital piracy because it should all be made publicly available. Wanting to LEARN shouldn't come with a cost. When I pay money to a college or university its for the professor's time, who is an expert in the field and can answer any questions the textbooks can't. It also covers the upkeep of the infrastructure. The only cost incurred with a textbook should be the ones manufacturing the book.

    Education as a money making industry sickens me a little.

  8. Bullshit... by nebaz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We are not paying all that money just for the textbook material, we are paying for the knowledge of the professors, and the shared experience with other people. Putting additional restrictions on the materials themselves for profit goes against the entire ethos of open information sharing, which is the cornerstone of university research.

    --
    Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
  9. My experience with e-textbooks by garcia · · Score: 5, Informative

    I attend an online university for my masters program. As part of this program, because it is new, they offered a pilot whereby students enrolled from the outset would receive free e-books. Being that I am poor (single income, one child and a SAHM) I welcomed this offer.

    The software used is miserable to operate (slow, buggy, required me to sit on with their tech support for over an hour to resolve an upgrade issue). It takes upwards of 15 minute to print a single chapter because it adds text with your name and e-mail address assigned to the account (for DRM ) to every page.

    While I am grateful for the free books, if I had the choice between the two I'd definitely go hardcover. The student should be able to make the choice between the two mediums, not the school regardless of whatever their motivation is.

  10. DRM ebooks I can't loan out or sell back, awesome! by Americium · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Or perhaps maybe give out a grant to write a textbook. Open textbooks for freshmen level classes should be possible, and is being worked on. It's ridiculous making freshmen pay $200 for a physics textbook, that IMHO is worse than the one I paid $80 for 10 years ago.

    There are about 400 students in the 100 level physics classes at my school. That's $80,000 for just 1 year of books, in one subject, only freshmen level, at one university.

    So obviously it's millions per year per subject nationwide. Don't you think for a couple million we could get someone to write a free textbook, and then we can save millions year after year.

    It's almost as insane as paying so much for journal subscriptions, instead of switching to open publications.

  11. eBooks vs. Used Books by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Insightful

    e-Books are generally DRM-controlled to the extent that students can't sell them as used textbooks. This actually increases the price over paper books in most situations.

  12. Re:Victom of eTextbook by khallow · · Score: 4, Funny

    and can't spell it is a moron

    No, you mean a moran.

  13. Re:Victom of eTextbook by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Oh no not typos!

    Once is a typo. Twice is not knowing how to spell the word.

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  14. Right to Read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

    That crazy kooky Stallman. What nonsense fearmongering will he rant about next?

  15. Re:I expect the following: by DragonWriter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Book prices will still remain close to $100.
    You'll lose your right to resell your old books.

    A bigger issue is that you lose the right to retain your textbooks. Given rapid edition changes, the right to resell was often of limited value and theoretical anyway; OTOH, most of the people I know kept many of their textbooks and occasionally reference them even a decade or more after leaving school; during high school, one of the ways I learned things outside of school was from my fathers old college texts.

  16. See 17 USC 121 by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

    Accessibility for us disabled folks will be an artificial extra cost, to satisfy the imaginary property brigade who think text-to-speech isn't a right.

    It is a right. Even U.S. imaginary property law appears to preserve this right.