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Religious Ceremony Leads To Evolution of Cave Fish

An anonymous reader writes "A centuries-old religious ceremony of an indigenous people in southern Mexico has led to evolutionary changes in a local species of fish, say researchers at Texas A&M University. Apparently since before Columbus arrived, the Zoque people would venture each spring into the sulfuric cave Cueva del Azufre to beg the gods for bountiful rain. As part of the ritual, they released into the cave's waters a leaf-bound paste made of lime and the ground-up root of the barbasco plant, a natural fish toxin. The rest is worth reading, but the upshot is that the fish living in the cave waters eventually got wise, genetically speaking."

14 of 233 comments (clear)

  1. I predict by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    that this thread will be characterized by civil discussion and insightful exchange of ideas, with little or no flamage

    1. Re:I predict by Kilrah_il · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I had a hard time deciding between replying to you or using my mod points to mod you Toll.
      You see, I also believe in evolution, science and all the other things you said. I also do not believe in God and believe Creationalism is stupid. But, I, apparently, have one thing you do not: Manners.
      The parent wrote his beliefs in a polite, respecting manner. He did not say: "Stupid evolutionalists! Can't you see that GOD is with me?" He was stating his beliefs while respecting ours. The least you could do was respond in kind and not use words like: "idiots", "scum", "i truely wish you were all dead", etc.

      --
      Whenever in an argument, remember this.
    2. Re:I predict by Tsiangkun · · Score: 4, Informative
      Fish acquired new trait. New trait is inherited.

      Evolution.

  2. So... by Barrinmw · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's like bacteria but on a multicellular level.

  3. Religion causing evolution.... by Brad1138 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Boy thats an oxymoron.

    --
    If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
    1. Re:Religion causing evolution.... by siddesu · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not necessary to understand the biochemistry or the underlying mechanisms in order to deduce an evolutionary response, it's sufficient to note that the fish are more resistant to the leaf-throwing than those upstream.

      Really? Even (unlike the Darwin's case) if there are other feasible explanations? Have you heard of, for instance, mithridization -- the ability of plants and animals to acquire partial immunity from acute poisoning if a low dosage is administered for a long time beforehand?

      It is an acquired trait (not passed genetically) that can quite nicely explain this phenomenon and dispense with the need for evolution.

      I didn't see anything in the article that would discount this possibility. Without understanding the biochemistry, claiming evolutionary response is just a hypothesis, especially in a small population like the one, discussed in the article.

      Also, while you have modpoints, you obviously don't know what is a "strawman argument", go look it up ;)

    2. Re:Religion causing evolution.... by siddesu · · Score: 5, Informative
    3. Re:Religion causing evolution.... by gilleain · · Score: 4, Informative

      Thanks for the support on logic fallacies, it isn't even amusing anymore when people throw in labels they've read in another thread instead of arguments

      No problem. It annoys me as well. Especially "ad hominem".

      From what little biology I remember from school, the immunization that would result from mithridization would be precisely an acquired trait.

      I could be wrong though.

      Ah, well it is acquired for the individual, but not for its children. As wikipedia says, drinking alcohol is a good example - the more you drink, the more of the detoxification machinery is made by the body, so the more drinks it takes to get you drunk. Your children won't benefit from this immunity, however.

  4. Re:Unuseful Definition by RockModeNick · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The difference is the method of selection: In one case, humans are altering the environment of a species, resulting in evolutionary changes.

    Selective breeding involves just that, selecting the traits you want in the animal and then breeding only animals with those traits. Selecting what you breed.

      The environmental alteration version doesn't involve any conscious desire for selection; any meddling that alters survival and breeding rates is good enough. These people aren't purposefully poisoning the water to select the fish in the river that are hardest to poison.

  5. Re:But they're still the same species fish, right? by zblack_eagle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd say that the new fish were indeed unable to breed with the fish without the adaptation, as those fish were dead

  6. Re:Unuseful Definition by Abcd1234 · · Score: 4, Funny

    So, this isn't considered to be "selective breeding" why now?

    If you've been hoping to breed fish by throwing fish toxin in the water, trust me... you're doing it wrong.

  7. Re:Unuseful Definition by forkazoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Basically, there's no difference in mechanism between selective breeding and evolution. It's just a difference in intent. The idea is that the people weren't specifically breeding the fish in the same way that people specifically bred cows and wheat and whatnot. In any case, the organisms most suited to their (human influenced) environment reproduced most successfully.

  8. Tomorrow's Sarah Palin Tweet Today! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    OMG Todd just told me R taxes paid 4 "scientists" 2 poison/torture fishes! Y? 2 so-call "proove" evilution. G-d knoes bettr. End DOE now!

  9. Now we know the true reason for global warming by maxwell+demon · · Score: 5, Funny

    From the article:

    "Since before the arrival of Christopher Columbus to the New World, the Zoque people of southern Mexico would venture each year during the Easter season deep into the sulfuric cave Cueva del Azufre to implore their deities for a bountiful rain season."

    And later:

    "Ironically, it was the last ceremony ever held, as the Zoques ended the practice that year due to political pressure from the government, which sought to preserve the cave as a hotbed for tourism and potential revenue."

    So they stopped doing ceremonies for the weather gods. This is surely not the only case. So people stop worshipping weather gods, and the climate goes wild. Coincidence? Unlikely! So now we have proof: Global warming is man-made, by neglecting weather ceremonies!

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.