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Analyzing Amazon's E-Book Loan Agreement

conel writes "The Economist has a knowledgeable mainstream take on the restrictions publishers are forcing on e-books. From the article: 'They wish you to engage in two separate hallucinations. First, that their limited license to read a work on a device or within software of their choosing is equivalent to the purchase of a physical item. Second, that the vast majority of e-books are persistent objects rather than disposable culture. ... Just as with music, DRM will be cracked. As more people possess portable reading devices, the demand and availability for pirated content will also rise. (Many popular e-books can now be found easily on file-sharing sites, something that was not the case even a few months ago, as Adrian Hon recently pointed out.)"

17 of 214 comments (clear)

  1. Re:I hope it's the beginning of a good thing... by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Are you kidding? The ability to lend a book once for 14 days if the publisher allows it? How is that a good thing?

    It's so ridiculously restricted it's essentially useless.

    --
    Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
  2. old school piracy. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ebook piracy has been around since before ebooks were commercially available. Even many years ago there existed a usenet board I used to frequent where a constant stream of books were distributed - painstakeingly scanned, OCRed and (hopefully) proof-read by enthusiasts. The selection was surprisingly comprehensive.
    It's been a long time since I was witness to the ebook piracy scene, but from what rumors I have heard the real action there now resides on a few DC++ hubs.

  3. What's wrong? by brit74 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't find anything wrong with the lend program. I realize Slashdot has a certain "information should be free" ethos, but it doesn't make much sense to build in the ability to give unlimited copies to everyone and think that it won't undermine the business. While the publishers "wish you to engage in two separate hallucinations", it seems like lots of other people want us to engage in another hallucination: that giving out unlimited copies won't turn into a financial problem for booksellers. For example, how many students are really going to buy their own digital copies of their textbooks, as opposed to passing around one copy for everyone? (Not that I really agree with the current economic model of expensive, often-updated textbooks, but I also can't agree with the pirates desire for unlimited free copies for everyone - as if that has no economic consequences, either.)

    1. Re:What's wrong? by LordNimon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I realize Slashdot has a certain "information should be free" ethos

      I think you are mistaken. There may be a few people who believe this, but my observation has been that the vast majority of Slashdotters are much more concerned about the right of first sale, which DRM-encumbered digital downloads do not currently allow. There's no way I'm going to spend $10 or $20 on an e-book if I can't sell it to someone when I'm done with it.

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    2. Re:What's wrong? by cynyr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      or gift it to a friend, or let my kid take it to college, or... any number of other things i may do with a physical book involving lending.

      --
      All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
    3. Re:What's wrong? by grcumb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I realize Slashdot has a certain "information should be free" ethos, but it doesn't make much sense to build in the ability to give unlimited copies to everyone and think that it won't undermine the business. While the publishers "wish you to engage in two separate hallucinations", it seems like lots of other people want us to engage in another hallucination: that giving out unlimited copies won't turn into a financial problem for booksellers.

      Just for the sake of argument, let's accept that assertion of yours as truth: Infinite distribution necessarily causes financial problems for publishers. That doesn't explain why they would choose to give fewer lending rights to possessors of digital copies than to those who buy the paper object. Nor does it explain why they charge pretty much the same price for this reduced capability.

      We seem to be dealing (yet again) with anti-features: The publishers are actually adding to the consumer's burden in exchange for nominally lowering the cost and 'allowing' them the convenience of reading an electronic copy of a given book.

      As the Economist rightly notes, this won't stand. Anti-features (including DRM) only need to be removed once. Argue however much you like about the rights of the author. As a writer, I'm pretty damn sympathetic. But realistically, writers have to adjust to the world as it is. People will share things that delight them. They do so with photos, with posters, books, music, TV shows and movies... in short, with everything they can.

      Yes, it puts creators in a quandary. Yes, it threatens livelihoods and, potentially, might even prevent the next great opus. But to attempt to remodel the world to fit an outdated vision? That's just insane. I don't mean stupid -it actually requires a fair amount of imagination to get there- I mean insane - nuts, cuckoo. The idea is premised on the fact that all of society (save the poor, beleaguered author) is wrong, and must change. Even if the first clause is correct, the second does not follow. And even if we accept it logically, we still have no hope of effecting that change through technical means.

      I suppose it is possible that we could change society. It's happened before. But we will not do it with DRM and anti-features.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    4. Re:What's wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've seen that suggestion several times. And it sounds just as stupid every time. You're not lending a READER when you let someone borrow your kindle/nook/whatever, you're lending your ENTIRE LIBRARY. If I buy a book, I can lend the book. That's the end of the story. I am perfectly fine with the fact that book lent out can't be read by me - that's fine. What I don't appreciate being told is how long the loan is, who is "allowed" to be lent the book, and "if" I'm allowed to lend the book.

    5. Re:What's wrong? by vikarti · · Score: 5, Informative

      There are other cases except your 2,for example: There is a good SciFi series of 4 books. Except that it is impossible to buy ANY electronic version of 4rd one(it is in kindle store - but limited to USA only). Other electronic versions are available...in USA only again. (previous parts were sold via Baen's Webscription,and bought by me for example) What I should do?I was ready to pay.except they don't want to get money. Tried,honestly find ways.after 2 hours give up and fired up eMule,after some time problem solved(for me)

  4. Doing it wrong by Arancaytar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    - It's often more expensive than a hard copy
    - Its purchase does not affect the cost of getting a hard copy later (nor vice versa!)
    - It is intangible and can (and will) be remote-deleted for the flimsiest of excuses.

    Why are we supposed to buy this again instead of getting something made of paper?

  5. Treat Digital Copies Like Books by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We need to start treating digital copies like books. We don't own the content, but we should own the copy we purchased, and we should be able to do with them what we want.

    Obviously there are some natural limitations that apply to books that would need to artificially applied to ebooks, but we can already apply them, as this piddly excuse for a loan policy proves.

    The concept is easy: a function in the software that ties an ebook to the device and only allows transfer to another device if it successfully ties it to another device, and then disables the ebook on the original device. That would make ebooks behave exactly like regular books. Then you wouldn't need a stupid loan policy, you'd just give your friend your copy of the ebook, just like you would a physical book.

    I seriously do not understand why this has not been done yet, or why they insist on these stupid "loan" functions. Just move the ebook off the old machine and onto the new! Leave it up to the owner of the book to get their copy back, just like physical books. We've been able to "move" (copy then delete) digital media for ages.

    Seriously, it's not that hard. Why the hell are they making it so complicated?

    --
    Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
  6. E-books more expensive than paper by hawguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I was moments away from ordering a Kindle - I had added it to my Amazon shopping cart and had started to add some e-book titles. Then I noticed the used book prices. Every one of the 5 e-books I had picked out were priced at $9.99, while used books with shipping came out to prices ranging from $4.50 to $9.99 including shipping.

    While I understand that people that travel a lot may prefer an e-book for the convenience, I do 90% of my reading in my living room. Why would I pay $139 for a device plus a premium price on each book just to have a fancy gadget? I'm not one to run out and buy the latest bestseller and I have enough books on hand to not find it hard to wait a couple weeks for a used book to arrive.

    I could even resell the books after I'm done and make the effective cost even cheaper (printing a priority mail label takes a couple minutes, so there's hardly any inconvenience). Though in reality, I donate my books to a local charity.

    I don't expect the publisers to allow e-book resales, but unless they cut their book prices significantly, they are going to have a hard time competing against paper.

  7. eBook piracy by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I avoid eBook piracy by simply by reading the classics

    1. Re:eBook piracy by jank1887 · · Score: 4, Informative
  8. One publisher seems to have a clue... by Decker-Mage · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Baen Books has been posting e-books, several formats available, for several years now. And, curiously enough, it's the authors that make the choice. I have a solid library of their titles that are loaded on all my machines to read during down-time (waiting on something) and all of them, including ones that I initially wouldn't have bought in book form normally, are here in the pulp as well. So, it's a good deal for the author, give me a book that may have me buy the series, rather than miss a potential sale.

    A rather radical thing that I recently encountered was a hardback Baen Book ("Rats, Bats, & Vats") that had a CD with several dozen titles from Baen on it that encouraged you to make a copy and give them out.

    As for the e-book community, yes, they are alive and well in the newsgroups last time I looked (August I believe) and you can get what you want in almost any format. Then again, that's been true of anything that can be presented in electronic form pretty much since newsgroups (NNTP) came to be. Just as with the cracking community (hell Apple should know what with rooting the iPhone) you'll always see them out there. Keep the price point low enouigh and frankly most people won't go to the effort of finding, downloading, etc., since you never going to know what you get (unusable/, malware, and lawsuit, oh my!).

    And before anyone professes that this is incorrect, go back and take microeconomics again, specifically opportunity costs. The beautiful thing about iTunes, iPhone Apps, NetFlix, downloadable software, and e-book marketplaces is that they have been an ecometrician's wet dream for statistical market behavior. I don't think that this was the intent of the providers of music, apps, and video, but there you have it. Saved us a ton of research grant money. Thank you!

    --
    "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
    1. Re:One publisher seems to have a clue... by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Their free ebook program has pretty conclusively proven that books that are past their peak sales mark (usually 2-6 months after first publish) see a substantial increase in sales after publishing the ebook for free.

      Don't hide it, promote it!

      The prime palaver section really details why this works, but the lengthy introduction on the front page is good enough for it to make sense to most people.

      This quote really sums up the real problem quite nicely:

      Income doesn't derive from preventing theft, it comes from making sales. A certain amount of loss due to theft is simply one of the overhead costs. Obviously, taking simple measures to eliminate as much theft as possible is sensible. But at a certain point -- and much sooner than you might think -- the measures you take to prevent theft can start cutting your income.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
  9. A few months ago was before the Publishers F'd up! by BLKMGK · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A "few months ago" I wouldn't have thought about pirating a book. I could get my favorite books for under $10 and I was reading them like crazy. Then here comes iPad and the bullshit deal Apple setup with the publishers to let THEM set the price and break Amazon's lock on E-books. Publishers, led by Macmillan, put the hurt on Amazon, and now they too are forced to let Publishers set book prices. Damn near overnight my buying of books came to a screeching halt as nothing I was interested in reading could be had for what I felt was a reasonable price. Some of the books I looked up were CHEAPER in hard copy! Books that have been out 6-7 YEARS for $12++?!

    So I too looked towards Torrent sites and elsewhere and sure enough there was tons of books available. I haven't bought a single book from Amazon, hard or soft copy, since this change in pricing went into effect. the sad thing is that E-books are so small no one ever just shares one, it's ineffective. Instead you see huge collections thrown together in order to make the file size decent.

    Thankfully some authors are getting a clue! Hopefully more will follow this guy's lead -> http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/

    --
    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  10. Re:I hope it's the beginning of a good thing... by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You are exactly right. Its almost insulting that the offer it, probably doing so only to deflect regulator attention for violating consumer's rights.

    Its the same deal offered by the publishers to Barnes & Noble for Nook users. (Not Amazon's doing, in other words).

    They have found a way to end run the First Sale Doctrine, by controlling right after the purchase. Non infringing resale is essentially impossible, and even loans or gifts are not possible.

    The problem is no consumer group exists which can fight all the way to the Supreme Court, which is probably what it will take.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.