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AMD Joins Intel's MeeGo OS Effort
angry tapir writes "In an effort to expand software compatibility for its upcoming Fusion chips, AMD has joined rival Intel's efforts to develop the open-source MeeGo OS. AMD 'will provide engineering expertise intended to help establish the technical foundations for next-generation mobile platforms and embedded devices,' the company said in a blog post on its website."
Time to build a huge bonfire and call the ghostbusters, because gozer is coming again.
Actually Meego is ARM ready so I don't think this is a case of x86 doing catch up, More like joining forces in order to make a viable competition. JMHO
> Intel and AMD are both out of the running compared to ARM-class chips (power usage), and are struggling to keep relevant
Are you sure about that?
http://fusion.amd.com/
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20101010112734_AMD_Fusion_is_Going_to_Be_Unlike_Everything_We_Have_Seen_Before.html#
According to AMD, their upcoming Fusion family APUs are actually the reason why AMD has joined Meego.
http://blogs.amd.com/press/2010/11/15/amd-joins-meego-linux-open-source-linux-project-for-next-generation-mobile-embedded-platforms/
Apparently the lowest-power end of the AMD Fusion APU is a combined CPU + GPU (on the one die) with a TPD of 1 watt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Fusion
They have to because we're going mobile with or without them. This much has been clear for years. They're trying to come up to speed, and Fusion looks like a credible effort but it's not going to be under anyone's tree this year - and iPads and iPhones and Android phones and tablets on ARM will be. Oak Trail from Intel looks promising but we'll need actual power and performance figures to know for sure.
Windows? It's not coming with us. It will wither slowly in the first world. It has a long tail. Familiarity is important. But the next billion users? Almost all of them will come online having never used it, or a machine that can use it - and they'll do fine.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
I doubt AMD or Intel feel much of a sting from the 4-5 million iPad units sold this year, but strategically, this is an area where both AMD and Intel have to start worrying about. There are a ton of low-end consumer spec devices growing rapidly in a highly volatile market of mobile phones and personal computing devices. This is an area where X86 systems have fared poorly. Intel and AMD need to find some magic to get themselves through the door before the market is so tight upon ARM arch that there's no hope for penetration.
How did they get here:
1. Intel blew their early adopter chances here when they dropped StrongArm/XScale years back. Maybe the licensing and profits were bad then, but it makes it a lot harder now to claw back into the sector
2. Intel bought into Atom big time, which combined with Windows put the chill on Linux/ARM based netbooks before it got enough traction to become 'a threat' to the status quo, though I doubt Intel makes nearly as much as it does when compared to a standard Notebook computer, residuals are better than nothing, though its yet to be seen just how low end (power and affordability) that Intel can scale down the chip line.
3. Both AMD and Intel are not seeing gigantic sales growth in PC CPU's or GPU's, so they need to look at other areas to continue to grow their businesses
4. With supporting Meego, at least AMD will gain compatibility for free instead of say investing in OHSA requiring the native pieces to be ported from ARM7 to X86
5. Nokia has been supporting Maemo as an also run Windows mobile type smart phone OS for a long time, and having iPhone, Android, WebOS, and WP7 absolutely blow their offerings out of the water means that something had to change with them. I'm not sure why they just can't pull something compelling together, but its hurting the company until they work on getting something. I personally think that bringing in Qt was a bad decision which has at least in a small part hindered efforts to get product to market.
Why this probably doesn't matter to consumers in the long run:
1. We have three large companies (AMD, Intel, Nokia) that are all considered dinosaurs of their industries who have very little impact on the software development or OS space to make me think that they can pull off a win in both areas of the scale needed for this product to do well
2. They have a large hurdle in getting X86 capable of competing on mobile computer-type devices at the same power efficiency that ARM chips seem to get for a lot less effort. They could license ARM which gets them part of the way, but then they get bit with higher royalties
3. In 2 years when the 'tablet computing' fad has largely blown off, Intel and AMD will realize that its just not that important to keep pushing down their marginal revenues until its just not worth the investment to keep with it. Nokia will either keep with Meego (and hopefully for them) make something substantial out of it for their phone platforms or just fumble along as they have with efforts like Symbian and further reduce their mind share and eventually their revenues
Bye!
3. In 2 years when the 'tablet computing' fad has largely blown off, Intel and AMD will realize that its just not that important to keep pushing down their marginal revenues until its just not worth the investment to keep with it.
I just don't agree that 'tablet computing' is a fad. Bill Gates was definitely correct that this form factor held lots of promise but Microsoft just could not untether themselves from the Windows gravy-train and thus constantly missed the mark with their tablet OS (not to mention pricing put it well out of the general consumer market). Intel got lucky in an emergency conspiracy with Microsoft to kill the netbook market but the tablet market is out of their control (with upcoming wave: Google/Android, HP/Palm, and RIM/BlackberryOS will put a permanent dent in PC sales). I bet both Intel and AMD are pretty disappointed in Microsoft's lack of real competitive OS here and have no "in" with the tablet players of today.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
Intel bought into Atom big time, which combined with Windows put the chill on Linux/ARM based netbooks before it got enough traction to become 'a threat' to the status quo, though I doubt Intel makes nearly as much as it does when compared to a standard Notebook computer, residuals are better than nothing, though its yet to be seen just how low end (power and affordability) that Intel can scale down the chip line.
As I understand it, margins on Atoms are pretty good, and an Atom-based netbook usually uses Intel chipset hardware so I suspect they're making a decent profit on the overall system.
I'm sure they'd prefer to be selling i7 laptops, but I doubt they're too upset about selling millions of netbooks.
I don't know. I think it's more bandwagon jumping than "joining forces."
I think this is a case of AMD knowing what side it's bread is buttered on. If they can drum up more business through direct sales because linux now works as well or better than a competitor(like say, intel, or ARM)'s product, and the cost is a few dozen engineers on a crazy fun short term amount of time spent kernel hacking, I'd say it's worth it.
From what it sounds like, MeeGo might be a less than stellar MID or phone OS compared to say, Android, but, MeeGo's probably my first choice if I had to design a DVR set top box, or a kiosk that would be shipped to thousands and thousands of locations.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Nokia has been supporting Maemo as an also run Windows mobile type smart phone OS for a long time, and having iPhone, Android, WebOS, and WP7 absolutely blow their offerings out of the water means that something had to change with them. I'm not sure why they just can't pull something compelling together, but its hurting the company until they work on getting something. I personally think that bringing in Qt was a bad decision which has at least in a small part hindered efforts to get product to market.
I agree with everything else but this. Have you used an N900? Maemo is the most capable of the mobile OS's and it's a solid progression from the previous versions. The interface is slick - four desktops with useful widgets, combined IM/SMS/SIP "conversations", nice view of multiple running apps and more. The reasons it's niche is because Nokia has not aimed Maemo at the general public, but instead has targeted a small geek market. In fact the N900 is marketed as a mobile computer, not a phone. I'll bet their next Maemo or Meego offering will be a smart phone.
Qt has long surpassed GTK and since Nokia owns the company they'd be nuts not to use it. From what I can tell they've done a fine job of transitioning developers.
What's stopping Google from using code in the MeeGo base?
The fact that Android has very little in common with mainstream GNU/Linux distros i.e those with GNU libc. That includes MeeGo (and its parents, Maemo and Moblin). Beyond the kernel (including drivers), I don't see them being able to share much.
Qt has long surpassed GTK
Um, I think the words you're looking for is "GTK has never caught up to Qt". Qt was first, GTK was a crappy response to it by a panicked FSF.
I thought GTK was simply an outgrowth of GIMP?
*puts on anti-Nokia troll hat*
I don't know about hats, but it sure sounds like you're trolling!
What's stopping Google from using code in the MeeGo base?
MeeGo uses a (somewhat) stock kernel, I believe. Android puts in all kinds of special sauce not in mainline like wake-locks.
Drivers written for Android aren't necessarily going to just work in MeeGo, unless you add all that additional stuff (cruft?) to the kernel, etc...
Like most popular distros, MeeGo uses the standard GNU userland; Android uses their own, non-GPL userland.
we'll probably see a lot of cross contamination between Android and MeeGo kernel code.
Sure, anything that's from upstream.
(I suspect that since Android's source is completely open, there would be no...
Android, like MeeGo is largely open. But there are certain things that are not released under a FOSS license (e.g. some drivers, particularly power-related and graphics-related drivers).
On Android, I believe that all of Google's core applications are completely closed-source. What's more, it's non-trivial to set up the phone to sync with non-Google servers.
Nokia would steal Google's UI code and Dalvik
I don't think that Android's UI is particularly better or worse than MeeGo's.
And Dalvik? That's like asking the MeeGo folks to go stick their hand in a beehive filled with thousands of tiny little Larry Ellisons with stingers. Surely, you must be joking!
Google would steal their best threading, i/o, and whatever other code is probably superior in MeeGo that isn't probably going to wind up in the base kernel trunk
Part of the whole point with MeeGo is to try to get as much stuff pushed up into upstream projects as is possible. If there's some good threading or i/o improvements to be made to the kernel, it seems reasonable that the MeeGo kernel devs will work hard to get it into mainline. From my perspective, Android has an "after the fact" attitude towards kernel development, whereas MeeGo has more of a "let's cooperate with upstream" attitude.
I don't know if ARM is working directly on the Linux kernel/Android or not
Sure. One of the projects they sponsor is Linaro. Linaro is a projects tasked with making it easier to deploy Linux-based systems on top of ARM: http://www.linaro.org/
coding is life
You really need to get your hands on one of the tablet flops coming out with Android to understand just how bad android can be. Even established makers like Toshiba have a 80%+ return rate. It just goes to show that you need proper UE and proper testing and proper development to create something even if you start with a "ready" OS.
In any case, MeeGo is geared not just towards the phone and Tablet market. All those STBs, media SoCs in TVs using bespoke builds are ripe for the picking and make a much easier target. It is also a market where Intel has some clout as their media processor + Atom combination delivers same or better performance and price/performance than the incumbent (predominantly MIPS) offerings from Pace and the like.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
nokia hired peter skillman - designer of palm pre - as UX designer of meego (or meego based nokia products).
When is Nokia getting its own icon? They are quite a big (understatement of the year) player in the daily lives of us Mobile devs.