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Want an IT Job? Add 'Cloud' To Your Buzzword List

jfruhlinger writes "There was a predicted uptick in IT hiring for late this year, but it's mid-November and it hasn't happened yet. Kevin Fogarty does see growth in one area, though: cloud and virtualization experts are being fought over, lured away from in-house jobs to cloud consultancies popping up everywhere."

35 of 187 comments (clear)

  1. clouds huh? by knotprawn · · Score: 2, Funny

    sounds like rather clouded judgement to me

  2. Today's word..."Cloud" by grasshoppa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think it's important to define the word "Cloud" as no one else seems to, yet the definition itself lends great insight to the concept.

    The "Cloud", as referenced here, is nothing more than the delegation of responsibilities...specifically those of infrastructure. That's it. It's not some mystical cure all. In fact, it's nothing more than a glorified way to outsource applications.

    Now there are specific technologies which lend themselves to this concept ( those of virtualization, certainly ), but the overall goal is the same; the business doesn't want to worry about the infrastructure behind their app. They simply want it to work.

    Which is why internal "clouds" have always amused me to no end...

    --
    Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    1. Re:Today's word..."Cloud" by benjamindees · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Which is why internal "clouds" have always amused me to no end...

      Personally, as a *nix generalist, even the idea of an external "cloud" is ridiculous to me. What the hell does a company actually do, if it outsources even it's own knowledge management?

      But I agree that an internal "cloud" is just as misguided. The sad fact is that most companies with more than a few hundred employees are organized as collections of surprisingly small fiefdoms. Even until recently, the idea of centralizing something as common as IT infrastructure really was so foreign to the typical corporate structure that it had to be sold in a way that those fiefdoms could treat it as an external service.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    2. Re:Today's word..."Cloud" by Belial6 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I can define the cloud for you. Cloud (noun) : The symbol used to indicate parts of the network that you have no knowledge of. Frequently used by people to describe external computer resources as a new concept when their knowledge of computers only extends back to 1998.

    3. Re:Today's word..."Cloud" by digitalhermit · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The "Cloud", as referenced here, is nothing more than the delegation of responsibilities...specifically those of infrastructure. That's it. It's not some mystical cure all. In fact, it's nothing more than a glorified way to outsource applications.

      Well, no. The cloud they referenced was an "abstracted data-center infrastructure" and not necessarily a means of outsourcing applications. Yes, the downside/upside is that it eases moving workloads from internal to external clouds, but that's the point.

      Now there are specific technologies which lend themselves to this concept ( those of virtualization, certainly ), but the overall goal is the same; the business doesn't want to worry about the infrastructure behind their app. They simply want it to work.

      Is that a bad thing not to want to worry about the infrastructure? Traditionally servers are designed around the concept of a physical server. We used to name servers by rack number or some other geographic location. Virtual machines were often named according to what physical server they resided within. Cloud technology, once the marketing speak is burned away and the APIs get to a mature and standard state (i.e., an in-house or an outside hosted cloud looks the same to an application), would allow other ways of managing the hundreds of thousands of machines in large data centers.

      For example, capacity planning is a big deal. One of the responsibilities of a system engineer is to ensure that workloads can run properly on the servers. When there is a planned outage on one server or an increased load due to seasonal or scheduled work, the admins have to juggle the resources of the servers. In a planned outage we may use VMWare VMotion or Workload Migration and swing the workloads across. But then we often have to worry about IP changes, hostnames, virtual host software levels, etc.. With a properly configured internal cloud, this is a non-issue. I can literally click a button and remove a physical server from the cluster and it's completely transparent to end-users. Need to add capacity? I SAN-boot a cloned disk and the new server is automatically part of the cloud and ready to take on work.

      We used to build our environments around managing discrete servers. Even if we had streamlined the process, it was still very much centered around the physical box. For example, we can stand up a box in a manner of minutes using RHEL kickstart, but if we wanted to add high availability this often meant configuring heartbeat IPs, swing SAN disks, /etc/hosts files for private IP ranges, etc.. HA on a cloud is almost too trivial to detail.

      Of course it's not there yet, but it's where the more recent virtualization technologies was 5 years ago (and yeah, virtualilzation has been out for decades, but it has only within the past decade really surged).

    4. Re:Today's word..."Cloud" by BlindRobin · · Score: 5, Funny

      synonym of 'fog'.

    5. Re:Today's word..."Cloud" by sourcerror · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I sat through a cloud lecture by some Microsoft guy, and he said it's aimed at startups, that don't know what server load to expect, and want a scalable solution. Practically Microsoft hosts the app with database and everything, the app must be written against a specific cloud api (in some .net language), and they bill by CPU time, network throughput and database size.

    6. Re:Today's word..."Cloud" by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Funny

      What the hell does a company actually do, if it outsources even it's own knowledge management?

      The good news is that they don't have to know what they're doing, someone external will know for them.

    7. Re:Today's word..."Cloud" by Leebert · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ...but the overall goal is the same; the business doesn't want to worry about the infrastructure behind their app. They simply want it to work.

      Which is why internal "clouds" have always amused me to no end...

      It's understandable that you'd think that way if you don't understand how wildly organizational structures vary from organization to organization, and you're used to organizations where there is "The IT department" and customers of that IT department. In that case, yes, why on earth would The IT department build a "cloud", when the only customers of it would be themselves?

      I'll give you an example of where this is arguably a good idea: NASA. Across ten or so centers, there are hundreds of generally self-sufficient small projects. The norm for many projects is to run their own small data centers (ranging from a single server running under someone's desk and up), because shared services typically don't provide the flexibility they need. Often this is software dev, wacky data distribution (like GDS), that sort of thing.

      In that environment, an Infrastructure cloud (IaaS, whatever buzzword strikes your fancy) starts to make sense. Which is exactly what NASA is doing, though I'll reserve judgment as to how good of an idea it was until it's been in place for a couple of years. :) But in theory and on paper, it's not unreasonable to have an "internal" cloud.

      I have no doubt that it would be similarly a "good idea" in other organizations, like a large university.

    8. Re:Today's word..."Cloud" by dkf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The symbol used to indicate parts of the network that you have no knowledge of.

      That's the definition as it pertains to networking. It's now been extended to other types of hardware and certain types of software, and it all works on the concept of "I don't know where it is or what it looks like, but I do know that if I wave my hands like this then it all works just fine." As long as things actually do work, then that's a good thing: you're saved the effort of thinking about lots of frankly irrelevant crap (well, irrelevant to you; someone cares about it...)

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    9. Re:Today's word..."Cloud" by homesnatch · · Score: 3, Informative

      Everyone is confused about the "cloud" because everyone over-uses the term.

      Essentially, the "Cloud" has three main points:
      It is a set of infrastructure resources.
      It is dynamically provisioned.
      It is self-service.

      Note that it has nothing to do with whether the resources are internal or external. I run an "internal" cloud at my company.

    10. Re:Today's word..."Cloud" by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Funny

      He's using HA in the Nelson Muntz sense.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  3. enumerate overrated job-providing buzzwords... by underqualified · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'll start... XML

  4. Re:Same old story behind the cloud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I believe it's the latter, plus data mining.

    What better way to collect and sell valuable data than to have your customers entrust you with their confidential files and emails?

    If the company that does no evil does it, what about those who don't care about what's good or evil?

    I've also witnessed said "cloud" companies hold customer data ransom (ie, you cant just grab your files and go home, forget to pay the bills? bye bye data, and good luck pulling them out of some systems.)

    Remember everyone's fears in 2003 when it was suspected that microsoft and other companies would start charging you to access your own files and essentially control your data?

    Funny how that came true and people are buying the idea up, it just didnt happen to the desktop..

    yet. (Watch, windows 8 will become more "cloud" dependent) Soon your logins (unless joined to a domain) will be handled with a .Net passport and your documents will be synced on "the cloud" and if you dont pay for the cloud services, the local copies will become locked and will not be accessible otherwise due to being stored in a encrypted and DRM locked down file that mounts as a filesystem.

  5. Re:To the Cloud! by benjamindees · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Running a remote desktop session for a single app that could just as well have been installed locally is pretty much the definition of "cloud computing" according to Microsoft.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  6. Re:To the Cloud! by Belial6 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There is nothing to dilute. The cloud is the symbol used in network diagrams to symbolize parts of the network that you have not knowledge or control of. That is why it is called "cloud". Because it is not clear.

  7. But only those with experience are wanted. by wvmarle · · Score: 5, Funny

    I bet experience is the key here. Only candidates with at least 8 years experience in managing cloud computing in a virtualised environment will be considered.

    And don't forget to list your four years experience with administering Windows 7.

    1. Re:But only those with experience are wanted. by wvmarle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Very.

      And referring to all those job ads asking for more years of experience in a certain tech than that the tech is around. This has been featured several times here.

    2. Re:But only those with experience are wanted. by Shados · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ironically, having worked as a consultant for far too long, I probably interviewed for hundreds of jobs, and usually, they don't care about how much actual work you put into the tech, only how long its been. So someone who worked with Java 3 hours a week for 6 years is ahead of someone who worked with it 40 hours a week for 3.

      Stupid as hell.

  8. Job market slow? Not everywhere. by mcvos · · Score: 4, Informative

    In my experience, there's plenty of choice. Not all of it great, of course, but there are some real gems passing along every now and then. They just get swamped in job offers for big Java enterprisey stuff. I try to scare them away by mentioning I don't want to work with Java, JSP or Struts, but since my CV contains the word "Java", they still contact me.

    Interestingly, they also contact me when they need an Erlang or Python expert, despite the fact that I have no experience in those languages. But my CV says I want to learn them. Really, nobody ever reads CVs. They just do basic pattern matching and assume that's good enough.

    My most interesting recent offer was from a company that wanted to switch to Scala. They had no Scala expertise yet, but needed some people wiling to learn and guide the transition. But it was almost an hour commute, partially by train, and I want to go to work by bike. But there's enough choice to be this picky, so the job market isn't exactly slow where I live.

  9. Yes, it is a very bad thing by syousef · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is that a bad thing not to want to worry about the infrastructure?

    Yes, it's a VERY VERY bad thing if your business and it's reputation relies on said infrastructure.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    1. Re:Yes, it is a very bad thing by Brian+Quinlan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Is that a bad thing not to want to worry about the infrastructure?

      Yes, it's a VERY VERY bad thing if your business and it's reputation relies on said infrastructure.

      I agree. Which is why I would assume that your company manages the following infrastructure internally:

      • Power
      • Connectivity (data and voice both mobile and wired)
      • Transportation (you'd hate for your employees not to be able to get to work because the public roads are super-congested or otherwise unavailable)
      • Water (without working toilets your business is going to be in the crapper pretty quickly)
      • ...
    2. Re:Yes, it is a very bad thing by definate · · Score: 2, Funny

      Phft. That's just pre-cloud thinking, in this post-cloud world we currently live in!

      Get with the times grandpa!

      Beowful synergy!

      --
      This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    3. Re:Yes, it is a very bad thing by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 4, Insightful
      All larger companies do have a "facilities management" department, which does at least some of these:
      • Power: they manage their own on-site power wiring. And UPS and (for some) even an onsite generating station (we have, and we even sell excess power to the grid)
      • Communication: they manage their office network and their PABX (to which both desk phones and company-issued DECT phones are connected. And many companies run a blackberry server)
      • Transportation: During winter, on-campus roads are gritted by the company, not by the commune. For foot travel between buildings, our company offers complimentary umbrellas :-) Within buildings there are elevators. And guess who built the parking lots, and the speed bumps on the access roads, and even the access roads themselves?
      • Water: On site water distribution is organized by the company. Some even have their own wells or storage ponds (think steel mills or others who need non-trivial quantities of water for cooling purpose)
    4. Re:Yes, it is a very bad thing by musicalmicah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And by the same token, smaller companies don't provide that infrastructure. This is exactly why "cloud computing" services are commonly targeted towards smaller companies. When you have three people in your office and a total budget of $500,000/year, buying and managing any infrastructure--for computing, power, communication, transportation, or water--can be daunting. Outsourcing management of these functions allows you and your employees to focus on your strengths.

      And despite what the business weeklies may pretend, a massive part of our economy flows through small businesses rather than megacorps with on-campus roads and storage ponds.

  10. buzzward savvy by Sudheer_BV · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you are in the web hosting business, you have to have the word cloud on your website. Otherwise customers think you are living in the stone age. Whether you actually offer cloud services doesn't matter. But using the buzzwords matter a lot nowadays.

    --
    Sudheer Satyanarayana
    www.techchorus.net
  11. Re:no I won't by jhoegl · · Score: 2

    Depends on what you mean by "low level"

    I'd rather work on some obscure network and infrastructure issue than solve some end user problem. End users ARE boring. Their problems are always stupid or caused by some misconception a bout computing they have(for example being convinced that computers are able to really perform human like reasoning and wanting to offload to a computer their managerial and intellectual work)

    The first part of your statement after "End users ARE boring." made me think... now there is a true programmer. *My program is perfect, its the end user that is the problem*. But then you quantified your statement further. However, the end user is right. It just depends on how much money they want to spend to "automate" their desired outcome.

  12. The demand is there, like it or not by joh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One very simple example: Do you have ever set up Google Apps for a domain, with email, contacts, calendar, Google sites and so on? Yeah, it's all in the cloud and all you have to do is clicking on buttons and filling out forms. Now go and look at some user trying to set this up. More likely than not he will get as far as configuring the MX-records and then he will cry for help.

    All this cloud stuff seems to be so simple, but it very much isn't. And yes, this actually is nothing a real pro would like to bother with (you'll be fighting more with the UIs than anything else) but there is high demand for this, people think they can finally get away without someone who knows what he does, but they can't.

    Most of this is in no way interesting or satisfying work but just fighting half-wit user interfaces. It's sometimes insulting, actually. Instead of really setting up things and controlling things you're hanging off someone else's setup and try to beat some sense out of it. It's often frustrating, you often will have to come to the conclusion that things you would like to do just can't be done because they're not offered and you can't do anything about that. But hey, it's just work.

    Me? I'd rather setup a full server park from scratch with old PCs and Linux than fighting the "cloud", but guess what's in demand more. And yes, there's a whole army of trained monkeys out there, knowing every cloud service under the sun and with superhuman point-and-click abilities, but if you really know your job and also know about problems and limitations you can still easily make some money with this. Fun is this not, though. Fun is making things, not using things.

  13. Re:ignoring the 5 brain-dead replies so far... by delinear · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Also, I think it's easier to be a convincing generalist than a convincing specialist there's always someone with more experience than you). So don't do just SQL, or just .Net, or just Linux. Show them you know a bit of everything, and can learn new stuff quickly, and tell in your CV what specific kinds of things are still on your to-learn list.

    Definitely this. When I'm hiring a contractor/freelancer for a one-off job, I want specialist knowledge. When I'm hiring someone permanent, experience is always great but really what I want to see is that they have some interest beyond just slotting into a specific role for the sake of job security. If nothing else, showing that you have a broader interest than just .NET gives the impression that you're not just in this for the 9-5 but actually have a genuine desire to learn. I would also add that, even while out of work, there are things you can involve yourself in to show potential employers that you weren't just bumming around. Try writing to local business and offer your services cheap or even free, try and get involved with local charities or community events. It might pay little or nothing short term but if it lands you the job you want long term then it's as good as money in the bank. Finally, depending on location, you might consider doing some contracting - the lack of experience is a bit of a draw back but I know plenty of successful contractors who started out with less (just be realistic about earning potential until you get more experience), even during a downturn there's usually plenty of contract work (often more so, because companies look to get people in for short term projects rather than hiring permanent developers).

  14. There is nothing wrong with The Cloud! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Wait a minute. I'm a manager, and I've been reading a lot of case studies and watching a lot of webcasts about The Cloud. Based on all of this glorious marketing literature, I, as a manager, have absolutely no reason to doubt the safety of any data put in The Cloud.

    The case studies all use words like "secure", "MD5", "RSS feeds" and "encryption" to describe the security of The Cloud. I don't know about you, but that sounds damn secure to me! Some Clouds even use SSL and HTTP. That's rock solid in my book.

    And don't forget that you have to use Web Services to access The Cloud. Nothing is more secure than SOA and Web Services, with the exception of perhaps SaaS. But I think that Cloud Services 2.0 will combine the tiers into an MVC-compliant stack that uses SaaS to increase the security and partitioning of the data.

    My main concern isn't with the security of The Cloud, but rather with getting my Indian team to learn all about it so we can deploy some first-generation The Cloud applications and Web Services to provide the ultimate platform upon which we can layer our business intelligence and reporting, because there are still a few verticals that we need to leverage before we can move to The Cloud 2.0.

  15. Re:no I won't by DrgnDancer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    YMMV, but in my experience there are three types of "low level" jobs in IT (not programming per se, though there are definite corollaries here, but "support IT"):

    1) Low level tech support grunt for a large company. You're going to be dealing with nothing but users. They are the entire focus of your life, if you get to deal with an "obscure network and infrastructure problem" it's purely by accident because your user happened to discover it. Even then, since you probably have minimal access to servers and network equipment, the best you'll probably be able to do is escalate it.

    2) Systems/network admin for a small company or facility. You'll still have to deal with users. You're probably the entire IT department, or at best the junior member of a very small team (all of whom want to push user issues off to you for the same reason you don't want to do them). On the bright side you're far more likely to be directly involved in building, deploying, and supporting the infrastructure. On the down side, unless it's either a really odd company or in the infrastructure business, the stuff will be incredibly vanilla. Windows AD and file servers attached to a few workstations on one or two logical networks and getting to the Internet via some form of SDSL. Probably a firewall appliance sitting between you and the DSL modem, and, if the company actually hosts its own Internet facing presence (most small companies don't), a small DMZ with the web and mail server. Not much for obscure here.

    3) Data center lackey for a large company. On the bright side, no users. On the downside you probably mostly haul boxes, rack system, replace parts, and make accounts. If you're both smart and lucky though you might be able to get yourself in good with the higher level guys and they'll trust simpler (for relative values of "simple") problems to you.

    Three offer the best possibility for what you want, though you usually have to be patient. Two is how I came up, and frankly I thought it was the best overall situation. You'll have to deal with users, a lot, but I don't really mind users to be honest (I'm a fairly social person, IT geek or not). The thing is, you pretty much to get see every aspect of IT. It's all on a smaller scale of course, but you actually get to do the planning, executing, and maintenance of your very own setup. You don't get a lot of obscure problems, but frankly those sound a lot sexier when you're sitting in college looking for a challenge than when you have a guy breathing down your neck wanting to know when things will be back up while you're still trying to figure out what the Hell happened in the first place.

    --
    I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
  16. Cloud eh? by CFBMoo1 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm tempted to buy a fog machine for my next job interview and put my code samples in the cloud it creates.

    --
    ~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
  17. Re:ignoring the 5 brain-dead replies so far... by mcvos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No idea about WPF and WCF, but the others are pretty old, well-established technologies. They show you do exactly the same things that everybody else has been doing for quite some time now.

    If I want to hire a good Java programmer, I'd rather hire someone who also knows a bit of Scala, than someone who knows just Java. The Scala guy is more likely to be someone interested in new technologies, and more likely to be aware of new ways of doing stuff.

  18. Re:no I won't by nedwidek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My wife is in the same boat. She's currently enrolled in Innumeracy 201.

    "All it takes is a dollar and a dream."
    "Gotta be in it to win it."

    Great ads and they work better than the truth of: Have no bloody clue what a probability is.

    --
    Post anonymously - For when your opinion embarrasses even you!
  19. Re:no I won't by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Great ads and they work better than the truth of: Have no bloody clue what a probability is."

    I know, I know.

    I heard it put once that the best definition of the lottery was: " A voluntary tax for those that can't do math".

    But when I buy $5 worth every once in awhile....it buys me about 2 days or so of daydreaming of what I'd do if I won all that money....

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........