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Microsoft Says Kinect Left Open By Design

kai_hiwatari writes "Around two week ago when Adafruit announced a bounty for developing an open-source driver for the Kinect, Microsoft made it clear that they didn't condone it. Now Microsoft seems to have realized the potential of their device and has made a U-turn. Alex Kipman, Xbox Director of Incubation, now says that they left the Kinect open by design. Kipman said, 'What has happened is someone wrote an open-source driver for PCs that essentially opens the USB connection, which we didn't protect, by design, and reads the inputs from the sensor.'"

17 of 215 comments (clear)

  1. Oh yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    We totally meant to do that cool thing you guys thought we didn't mean to do ... and stuff.

    1. Re:Oh yeah by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Interesting

      He's probably right. You should see what they did with Windows Phone 7; the protocol they speak over USB is encrypted, even though the protocol is known, and the data being transferred is usually also known. It has deep security.

      Now, maybe they didn't leave it open specifically because they wanted people to write an open source driver, but if they had been serious about keeping it closed, they would have almost certainly given it a better attempt.

      --
      Qxe4
    2. Re:Oh yeah by timeOday · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Really, who cares what they intended in the first place?

      I read this statement as: "we are NOT going to sue or try sue unauthorized Kinect developers. we are not going to upload new firmware to close the barn door every time it connects to the Internet. We are not going to try to figure out who is doing this and ban them from XBox Live."

      All this is great news.

    3. Re:Oh yeah by noidentity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Interesting how it's now great news for a company to not be a fucking asshole and prevent owners of the devices from doing whatever they want with them. Used to, this was just considered what any normal company would allow.

    4. Re:Oh yeah by Mysteray · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, it "isn't some random project by 4 college dropouts." Based on what I see from the outside about the way MS works it's more likely to be:

      13 MBAs from prominent schools who specialize at yelling at their subordinates
      1 guy from the former Soviet Union with a Master's degree in EE
      1 guy with a Master's degree in Java UML frameworks from each country that has a population over 1B
      18 part-time contractors and outsourcers

      Only one of these is likely to know what the word "hackable" means and he's smart enough to know when to keep his mouth shut.

    5. Re:Oh yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      True. it is pretty darn obvious that when MS first heard about "hacking" the Kinnect they were worried about actually having another device that could pretend to be a valid Kinnect. This has not been done. In fact, what was done is not really hacking - more just determining what the USB signals are. Nothing was broken, no security was compromised, etc. MS now realizes that it wasn't what they thought it was and are certainly not upset that you can use a Kinnect on other platforms. They just don't want to have other devices that can authenticate as a Kinnect to an XBox 360 so that cheating isn't enabled. Very straightforward.

    6. Re:Oh yeah by vegiVamp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Since you are suggesting that everything they leave open is deliberate, I should say it's high time to start suing their balls off for all the security holes, viruses and botnets they've enabled.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    7. Re:Oh yeah by pregister · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly.

      The quote from the MS exec was taken from this week's Talk of the Nation Science Friday show on NPR (as pointed out in the article) which I think is available as a podcast. It was an interesting segment because despite the obvious product evangelizing that was going on, they really do seem enthused about how a device like this will be a game changer in the way we interact with technology.

      In the first part of the quote, not included in the fine summary, he takes pains to point out the Kinect hadn't been "hacked". He gives two meanings of hacked, the second one being that nobody has been able to modify the signal coming from the Kinect sensors before it gets to the Xbox...which would allow cheating.

  2. Needs more Xbox by slyborg · · Score: 4, Funny

    I think what he meant to say about the earlier statement was that Microsoft turned 360 degrees and walked away from it.

  3. Everyone has a right to change their mind by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If Microsoft's knee-jerk reaction is the wrong one, well, that's to be expected. They're assholes by nature. But, if after sleeping on it (and consulting with their lawyers and engineers and finding out there's nothing they can do that won't eat up every cent of profit they might have made on the thing) they come up with the right decision, I'm willing to forget their previous stance. Keep it up long enough, and they might even earn some goodwill.

    --
    <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    1. Re:Everyone has a right to change their mind by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Informative

      However, if they didn't want to come off as asshats I think they should have said, "originally we had said that the Kinect should remain closed.

      No, thats not what they originally said.

      What they said is two very short quotes. Here, let me help you:

      "Microsoft does not condone the modification of its products. With Kinect, Microsoft built in numerous hardware and software safeguards designed to reduce the chances of product tampering. Microsoft will continue to make advances in these types of safeguards and work closely with law enforcement and product safety groups to keep Kinect tamper-resistant."

      Thats what they said, exactly.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  4. Their side of story by asvravi · · Score: 5, Informative

    The first thing to talk about is, Kinect was not actually hacked. Hacking would mean that someone got to our algorithms that sit inside of the Xbox and was able to actually use them, which hasn’t happened. Or, it means that you put a device between the sensor and the Xbox for means of cheating, which also has not happened. That’s what we call hacking, and that’s what we have put a ton of work and effort to make sure doesn’t actually occur.

            What has happened is someone wrote an open-source driver for PCs that essentially opens the USB connection, which we didn’t protect, by design, and reads the inputs from the sensor.

  5. Re:The Usual Microsoft Flip-Flop by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It wasn't a flip flop, it was one random persons comment within MS earlier on that everyone has assumed is gospel on MS's stance. If MS had: Given a press release, stance commented on by someone among the top (like the director of the gaming division), or made an official statement this would in fact be a flip-flop. Instead this was the intention that one random uninformed person didn't know about in the first place.

    Now it would probably also be different if people wanted to do something besides using the kinect...

    --
    we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
  6. MS has mixed up 'Hacking' and 'Cracking' by HalAtWork · · Score: 4, Informative

    Hacking would mean that someone got to our algorithms that sit inside of the Xbox and was able to actually use them, which hasn’t happened. Or, it means that you put a device between the sensor and the Xbox for means of cheating, which also has not happened.

    No, that's cracking. Hacking seems to be exactly what has taken place... The device has been used as defined by the user, not the original software, for purposes outside of the original scope of the device as intended by the producer of the device.

  7. Probably not even changing their mind by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People far too often ascribe personal characteristics to a corporation to the extent of viewing them as having one mind, one vision, one goal. That's not the case of course. They are made up of many people, who have different objectives. This is particularly true in the case of the massive conglomerate types like MS that doesn't have a controlling leader.

    So what very well could have happened is that the development/project team on Kinect said "Let's leave this sucker open. We aren't going to spend any funds developing alternate uses, but let's not spend any time putting shit to prevent it either. Let people do whatever the hell they want with it." So Kinect gets developed with that in mind. However when it is launched and people look at it Assistant PR Flunky Third Class Number B was asked about hacking it, probably with the journalist using the term "hacking" and then fired back with Standard Lawyer BS Statement Regarding Hacking Form 5114CXX1 Subtype J which said "Graaaah! Hacking bad MS smash!" After a bit this makes the rounds, while Kinect is hacked, and internally the questions is asked as to the real intent. The director of the project says "It was supposed to be open!" and after clearing that with legal and corporate for release, they do so.

    Notice the original statement was "a company spokesperson." In other words some low level guy who gets the calls when a news publication wants to know something, someone with no real knowledge or authority. This new statement is from Alex Kipman, a director at Microsoft who is directly involved with this, someone who knows what the hell is going on.

    So that's probably what happened. Not changing their minds, just normal corporate confusion. The statement Cnet got was just a generic response from PR, that probably hadn't been well considered or prepared, just pulled from the "We defend our IP," bin. The second statement is their real position, from the project director.

  8. Re:open by design? My ass! by hedwards · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm sorry sir, but this isn't the appropriate venue to offer those sorts of services. I'd refer you to Craig's list, but apparently they aren't that sort of venue either.

  9. Doesn't appear to be a DMCA violation by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

    Can you spell DMCA?

    Breaking encryption that was put there for a purpose other than to control access to an original work of authorship does not violate the anti-circumvention provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Chamberlain v. Skylink; Lexmark v. Static Control Components.