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Online Behavior Could Influence Insurance Rates

Posted by Soulskill on from the brain-tumor-insurance-not-offered-to-youtube-commenters dept.

storagedude writes "There seems to be no end to the ways your personal data and online behavior can be used against you. According to the Wall Street Journal, insurance companies are considering using online behavioral and social networking data to try to weed out insurance risks. What you read, what you buy, how much TV you watch, your credit, your fan pages... it could all be used to predict your longevity and insurance risk. The practice, which appears to be in the early stages, could raise concerns with the FTC and insurance regulators, but insurance and data mining companies say they just plan to use it to speed up the applications of people who appear to be good risks; others would have to go through more rigorous traditional screening."

35 of 141 comments (clear)

  1. Of course by ciaran_o_riordan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And TSA x-rays are just to reduce the number of people who have to be submitted to TSA groping.

    --
    Expert in software patents or patent law? Contribute to the ESP wiki!
  2. Already happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Some members of an auto-cross club posted pictures of a recent event on a forum and got their insurance cancelled.

  3. Sure wish I didn't join the by ciderbrew · · Score: 4, Funny

    I've got an STD facebook group.

    1. Re:Sure wish I didn't join the by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Funny

      I've got an STD facebook group.

      I didn't know that so many people were interested in telephony and call routing.

  4. Habitual slashdot use bodes well. by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Funny

    Habitual slashdot use bodes well for your insurance rate. Mom's basement is pretty safe and the chances of catching an STD are as limited by the low probability of meeting a female in real life.

    1. Re:Habitual slashdot use bodes well. by goldaryn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's a good job that the sedentary lifestyle correlating with prolonged computer usage isn't a major risk factor in heart disease then

      (Yeah I know, facts = karma hell)

    2. Re:Habitual slashdot use bodes well. by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And single computer geeks need life insurance, for why? Exactly whom would it meant to support, unless of course there is a provable reincarnation option.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  5. Predicting the future... by Manip · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Here is what will happen:
    1) People will "game" the system to get cheaper quotes (e.g. fake browser history, fake cookies, etc).
    2) Some insurance company which doesn't really understand technology will either sue a client, or try and withhold a payout
    3) A 70 year old judge will agree that fake browser history (or "privacy" as I like to call it) is fraud
    4) A law will be passed making it illegal to tamper with or destroy your browsing history, or to attempt to avoid tracking while online

    1. Re:Predicting the future... by scosco62 · · Score: 2

      5) Some idiotic politician will make this a platform; while making no real binding committment to deal with it 6) The insurance company will continue post positive growth, based on profiling And so the wheel turns......

    2. Re:Predicting the future... by sakti · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This has nothing to do with your cookies, browsing history, etc. It will be an accumulation of your searches, shopping habits, media habits, social networks, etc. Your online behaviour as seen by third parties. They will scrape what they can and buy the rest. They are basically profiling people looking for correlations with their insurance risks. This is nothing new, it is what they have been doing for years. They are just looking at adding new data points that are cheaper and readily available.

      --
      "It is better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees." - Albert Camus
  6. Re:This reminds me.. by snookerhog · · Score: 2, Informative

    clearly you don't know what an actuary is.

  7. It smells in here. by AnonymousClown · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Deloitte and the life insurers stress the databases wouldn't be used to make final decisions about applicants.

    Bullshit.

    She also says that, while Acxiom does store personally identifiable information, it doesn't store or merge anonymous online-tracking data, such as Web-browsing records.

    Bullshit.

    Units of News Corp., including The Wall Street Journal, supply information to marketing-database firms and buy information from them. "We have strict precautions around confidentiality," a spokeswoman said.

    Bullshit.

    The insurer says pilot projects with marketing data are continuing in its effort to improve clients' buying experience.

    Bullshit.

    All these quotes were made by PR and corporate stooges. Does anyone honestly think they would tell the real story?

    --
    RIP America

    July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    1. Re:It smells in here. by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I used to work for Acxiom a long time back....and it was scary THEN what information they have on people. Back then, we were looking to expand into Europe, etc for information gathering.

      They did all kinds of neat things....you fill out a change of address for the post office? Yep, they buy and use those to clean their databases on you. Many states sold and still sell drivers license info, they use that. Do you ever fill out warranty cards for products you buy? Fill in the surveys anywhere? Yep, they know who you are. They can pull up pretty accurate info for likely 95% or so of the people in the US, who knows about foreign countries by now. They can tell how much you make, if you wear glasses.....any number of personal or financial traits you might have.

      They are VERY good at it. Heck, after 9/11...the Feds used Acxiom to start data mining for terrorists.

      I know they have info on me, but I try not to make it easy. At the one grocery store I shop at that still uses customer cards...I am registered at a 98 yr old hispanic lady named Goldenberg...and a native of Sweden. I just make sure and only pay cash at that store. I fill out every possible survey and form out incorrectly trying to skew their data profile on me. Post Katrina, as I moved around...they lost me for a bit. But I think they have me decently again, due to magazine publications I like to read.

      Oh well...hard to stay invisible these days...but you don't have to try to actively try to help them. That facebook thing looks like it could be fun, but man, I just cannot bear to let even more info out about me voluntarily.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:It smells in here. by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      "The government has rules and restrictions about the data it is allowed to collect and connect. "

      Are you kidding?

      In the US, there are VERY few laws about personal data collection and distribution. If you read the article, it says Acxiom and these other companies are very wary about selling this information to the insurance companies for this usage, in fear that it might trip up some regulations that do exist (with the FTC I think?).

      But really, with the exception for HIPAA type information, in the USA, it is pretty much the wild west out there...anyone can gather what information they want on you, and use it in almost any fashion without any repercussions from the very few laws that do exist out there concerning this.

      And these companies don't want this kind of attention, nor this kind of regulation in the future. They make a LOT of money with this stuff.

      One interesting project Acxiom had going on back in the day, was to come up with the perfect personal identifier, so as to make it easier to identify you as you moved, married, changed names, changed SSN, etc. They want to track you from birth to death, and by now, I'm sure they do a pretty darned good job of it.

      I do not condone violence like you alluded to...there are innocent people there working that are just trying to earn a living. And it is a free country, and this is perfectly legal what they do. If you don't like it..legal action is the path to take.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:It smells in here. by XorNand · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Using front companies that present themselves as marketing or advertising agencies, Choicepoint (since purchased by LexisNexis) buys data from pizza delivery places. Apparently it's a great way to be able to correlate unpublished or cellular phone numbers to a particular address.

      --
      Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
    4. Re:It smells in here. by erroneus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The rules and restrictions I speak of are only applicable to GOVERNMENT. For example, there are ample laws in place to prevent the use of social security numbers for purposes other than social security account management. But there are not laws that say entities other than government can't use that number and so they do. In fact, there's no law that says state and local government can't -- the law only applies to federal government. But there are also laws preventing the sharing of collected law enforcement data among agencies as well. The ability to share such data among agencies was a hot topic not too long ago. Where were you?

      As for violence against innocents go, we get more than our share of it by "doing nothing." Just as in the case of concealed handgun permits, we only stand to reduce needless violence by taking action rather than doing nothing and being passive.

      More and more we hear about police violence justified by "resistance" by the people. And increasingly, video evidence to that proves the "government lied" emerges... which results in more actions to make illegal such recordings. The cycle goes on and on. "Doing nothing" will result in the problems getting worse and more and more innocents falling victim.

      I know I don't have the balls to do anything myself and would likely report anyone I knew who would be the next McVeigh. But still -- I sit back quietly and hope for the removal of various things I see as a big problem in the world. Those include:

      1. Spammers
      2. Advertisers/Marketers
      3. Legal-system-abusing trolls
      4. ...and lots more...

      I fail to list "corrupt politicians" because I don't see them as a problem as much as they are a symptom. EVERYONE, including myself, is corruptible. Corruption is a problem of opportunity, not of character.

      And as far as innocent employees of Acxiom goes? Really? Are you serious? I know the job market has its problems, but anyone who works at Acxiom knows what Acxiom does and that, at the very least, being employed there exposes them to risk of angry people. So unless there are people who just stopped in to ask for directions, there aren't many innocents at Acxiom.

      Similarly, there is a growing list of business types that I will not work for. Among these are:

      1. Jewelers and related (debeers)
      2. Advertising/Marketing companies
      3. Intellectual property driven businesses
      4. ...and more...

      See a pattern here? I also will not work for any company involved in the Miltary Industrial Complex... same reasons. No innocents -- when you are making bullets for sale to the military, the chances are good that what you touched with your hands will be used to kill people. How innocent are THEY?

    5. Re:It smells in here. by Antisyzygy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Its not in their interest to tell the real story. If one thing can be learned from history, its that corporations will not regulate themselves.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
  8. The First Amendment is Obsolete by drooling-dog · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The First Amendment becomes meaningless as limits to speech come more and more from the corporate sector. In a world where everything you do and say is recorded and databased, and where industries (like insurance) are increasingly dominated by just a few players, stepping out of line even once can have dire consequences. The blacklist is back.

    1. Re:The First Amendment is Obsolete by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      offer less risky customers lower rates

      Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

      This will be used to gouge customers arbitrarily, like any and other possible excuse has been used.

      My g/f moved in with me recently. The house we live in is 600 yards from her parents house, and on the same estate. They are connected by the same road running through the estate. Turn right for the road to her mom's house, left for ours.

      Her insurance premium went up by over £300 (an increase of approx 80%). The reason was that the post code was more at risk. A post code one letter different to the one she resided under previously.

      Insurance companies are out to gouge you for profit, and you can't say no unless you're a multi millionaire and can guarantee you can afford the bill if something goes wrong. Don't think they're out to do anything for you. Ever.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    2. Re:The First Amendment is Obsolete by cusco · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It seems a lot more likely to me that they'll use the information retroactively, to deny valid claims. Get in a late night car accident and you may be on the hook for all the liability that they originally told you would be covered because someone with the handle Maxume posted on Car And Driver's reader forum about participating in illegal street racing.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    3. Re:The First Amendment is Obsolete by tophermeyer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So long as there is competition between insurers there will be lower rates for the less risky customers. If the risk is balanced correctly with the cost, insurers are still basically printing money.

    4. Re:The First Amendment is Obsolete by nospam007 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If it makes the fat slob who smokes and drinks too much pay more and me less instead of forcing me to support his bad habits, OK with me.

      If you're the fat slob, you might disagree.

    5. Re:The First Amendment is Obsolete by Soldrinero · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you think that a "fat slob" paying more for his insurance means that you'll pay less, you have a very naive view of insurance companies. Or companies in general. Also, how diligent do you think they'll be to check that you're not a fat slob? Remember that banks have been foreclosing on houses that weren't even in default!

      --
      I would rather be killed by a terrorist than enslaved by my government.
  9. Nothing new here by Aceticon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Insurance companies will use whatever information they can get their hands on to try and make sure that what they get paid for providing insurance is appropriate for the risk profile of who/what they are insuring.

    It is a core part of their business model to correctly determine the risk profiles of the individual/situation for which they are providing insurance so that they charge the right premium and in aggregate make a profit.

    Many of us want to make sure that our genetic information doesn't get collected at thrown into a public database because it would sooner or later end up in the hands of insurance companies and affect our personal premiums for everything from medical insurance to car insurance.

    1. Re:Nothing new here by Rich0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yup, the better science gets, the less insurance works, and the more you just need socialism (or not - depending on your views).

      The whole concept of something like health insurance is that you don't know if you're going to need it, and so you buy it just in case. If you know if you're going to need it, then it loses its purpose. Either companies also know and you can't afford it, or companies aren't allowed to know and all go out of business since healthy people won't buy it.

      If the goal is socialism we can just cut out the middleman and treat it like any other social program. If the goal is actually insurance then eventually we'll hit a point where we can't accomplish that goal.

  10. Re:And the first ones to be denied insurance..... by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, probably people who use search engines to look up medical conditions. It'll be the new "pre-existing condition" metric. Doctor's records are so passe.

  11. the new health care bill bans pre-existing conditi by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the new health care bill bans pre-existing conditions and makes it so you can't be turned down and any ways how do they even known they have the right name if they just use Google?

  12. Fear more powerful than facts by erroneus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We see this reality at play everywhere from religion to medicine to the stock market. Anti-gun people even today have conveniently ignored the positive effects of concealed handgun licenses across the US and continue to cry "blood in the streets."

    And of course insurance companies are looking for new excuses to raise rates. (How often do you see rates decline? Not often... I have USAA insurance, but they seem the be the only exception... my rates went down again with my most recent renewal.) Greed knows no limits. It's the justification and reasonableness that are growing more and more scarce.

    I would say that this is "old news" or not news at all if it weren't for the fact that people simply need to learn to accept and embrace certain aspects of the reality of human nature that are continually used against us all. We don't use facts when fear is so much more effective at getting the immediate results desired.

  13. Re:the new health care bill bans pre-existing cond by Schadrach · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They have an increased risk that you might potentially be a person who has, or has family who have, a given condition. Therefore you should pay more for insurance, because you (or someone who could be mistaken for you) presented some interest in Percutaneous Transhepatic Cholangiography, for example.

  14. Re:And the first ones to be denied insurance..... by sorak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And the worst thing you could possibly do to someone?

    wget -r http://webmd.com/

  15. Well good luck finding me by spectro · · Score: 2, Informative

    I was lucky enough to think of using a pseudonym the first time I got online through a 2400 bps modem and I have kept that since then. It was really useful when I got hired as programmer for a defense contractor, I caught my manager goggling me and of course he found nothing. I use fake names in social networks... my friends know who really I am.

    Only websites where I use my real identity are the ones who already got my personal info through other means (banks, credit cards, insurance, etc).

    --
    HTML is obsolete. It's time for a new, simpler and richer markup language.
    1. Re:Well good luck finding me by Jaqenn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've been using a pseudonym for a long long time...but that includes creating accounts for WoW or whatever other services, and I've given them enough billing information for someone to link my pseudonym and my real name.

      So Mr spectro, you've really used a pseudonym and kept that pseudonym separate from anything that could be traced to you? Because otherwise you're just one data breech away from the link.

      --
      You are awash in a sea of fiercely stated opinions. Obvious exits are: 'File->Quit', 'Reply', and 'Page Down'.
  16. Has America died? by turkeyfish · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Are you claiming that Google is selling browser history data to the health care industry?

    How much is being paid?

    Exactly who is buying.

    I suspect that this is not the case since this would fundamentally destroy their business and they are or at least should be sensible enough to recognize this.

    Rather, I suspect, but can not as yet prove, that it is the health care industry mining data from social networking sites and on-line marketers that are the primary culprits in this. Exactly, how much is being paid to and by who needs to be the subject of a much wider debate. Otherwise, the entire concept of American democracy is dead.

  17. Insurance companies spying on people, old news by GameboyRMH · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Health insurance companies often send private investigators after people who they think might be feigning injury. I've heard of this happening about a decade ago.

    Car insurance companies send lookouts to street racer hangouts and sometimes even 100% legal track meets to look for customers to cut off (almost all insurance contracts say that participating in a timed run or contest of speed is not covered. It's standard procedure for us low-budget racers to get a barebones insurance package for our streetable track rats and just not tell the insurance companies shit...we fix our own vehicles of course and pay for separate event insurance, so the insurance company basically gets free money for giving us a piece of paper we need in case we get pulled over, but they aren't happy with this for some reason.)

    This isn't even the first instance of insurance company spying ON THE INTERNET - a couple of years ago there was a story of a depressed woman cut off from her health care insurance because she posted a happy status update and a pic of her smiling to her Facebook page.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  18. Re:the new health care bill bans pre-existing cond by tompaulco · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "You can't be turned down" is irrelevant because they can charge you whatever they want.
    And even better, you can't turn them down, because under Obamacare, you have to have insurance even if they set the premium so high that you can't afford it. This will be the best thing to happen to the insurance companies since, well, everything else that has happened to the insurance companies. Thank you Obama, for bailing out the already rich insurance companies.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.