Slashdot Mirror


Utah vs. NASA On Heavy-Lift Rocket Design

FleaPlus writes "Utah congressmen Orrin Hatch, Bob Bennett, Rob Bishop, and Jim Matheson issued a statement claiming that NASA's design process for a new congressionally-mandated heavy-lift rocket system may be trying to circumvent the law. According to the congressmen and their advisors from solid rocket producer ATK, the heavy-lift legislation's requirements can only be met by rockets utilizing ATK's solid rocket boosters. They are alarmed that NASA is also considering other approaches, such as all-liquid designs based on the rockets operated by the United Launch Alliance and SpaceX. ATK's solid rockets were arguably responsible for many of the safety and cost problems which plagued NASA's canceled Ares rocket system."

13 of 285 comments (clear)

  1. Like riding a firecracker by wisebabo · · Score: 4, Informative

    The solid rocket boosters have always seemed to be the most dangerous piece of the "stack". The problem is, YOU CAN't SWITCH THEM OFF. Because of this, I believe there is literally no way out for the shuttle crew while they are firing. I think Wehrner Vom Braun refused to design man rated vehicles with a solid rocket stage (he mustn't have been responsible for the Redstone I guess). Even the Russians used liquid fueled strap-on boosters in their Buran.

    Of course if the shuttle had been properly funded it would've had a liquid first stage (maybe even winged so it could fly back). But that was in an alternate universe I guess. I know that Constellation would've had an escape tower that would be (hopefully) be able to pull it away from the main vehicle but still it would be much safer if the main vehicle's engines were OFF at that point.

    1. Re:Like riding a firecracker by MrQuacker · · Score: 4, Informative
      You refute your own argument!
      >> Modern designs
      >> More advanced

      How old are the designs for the shuttle boosters? Shuttle boosters cant throttle or pulse.

    2. Re:Like riding a firecracker by EdZ · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's why the SRBs are literally bolted to the pad until after ignition. Ever wonder why 'main engine start' comes in the t- count? Liftoff (t=0) is when the clamps release and the frangible nuts blow, not when the engines are started.

    3. Re:Like riding a firecracker by bkmoore · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Redstone I was a liquid fuel design based loosely on the V-2. It was fueled by ethanol and liquid oxygen. Dr. von Braun was the project leader and the Redstone I. The Redstone was intended to carry a small tactical nuclear warhead, much like the Russian Scud missiles which came along a few years later. It was adapted for the Mercury program because of its availability and good reliability compared to other rockets of the era.

    4. Re:Like riding a firecracker by multi+io · · Score: 4, Informative

      "main engine" refers to the liquid-fuelled SSMEs, not the SRBs. The SRBs are ignited at t=0, and after that, the stack is gonna lift off and fly somewhere (hopefully upwards), bolted or not.

  2. Re:Move along, nothing to see by goldaryn · · Score: 4, Informative

    So... if I understand correctly, what's actually happening here is that a Utah company claims that NASA cannot meet the legal requirements by using the competition's designs, and the various Utah congressmen are joining in the chorus to support that Utah company.

    Company discredits competitors, congressmen support their state's industry. Surprising? Hardly.

    The law itself is very fishy. Quoting TFA:

    The law states that NASA “shall, to the extent practicable, extend or modify existing vehicle development and associated contracts including contracts for ground testing of solid rocket motors, if necessary, to ensure their availability for development of the Space Launch System.”

    To me, the intent there is "don't change it unless reasonable on safety or other grounds". But why the enforcement of staying with current contracts? It stinks of the lobbying parent describes. More from TFA:

    Phrases like “to the extent practicable”, “if necessary”, and “as appropriate” give NASA leeway to go in different directions if they determine something as specific as outlined in the legislation’s report language is not practicable, necessary, and/or appropriate.

    Or dangerous, as the summary suggests.

  3. Re:I'm confused by dakameleon · · Score: 3, Informative

    I believe they've got their names listed above.

    --
    Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
  4. Just to be clear... by dtmos · · Score: 3, Informative

    Hatch and Bennett are the two US Senators from Utah, while Bishop represents Utah's 1st District (most of northern Utah) and Matheson represents Utah's 2nd District (most of Southern and Southeastern Utah), the latter two in the US House of Representatives. (The western portion of Utah forms the 3rd House District, represented by Jason Chaffetz. No word on why he didn't sign on with everyone else.)

  5. Re:You dont... by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Informative

    Really? I've heard tea partiers & Libertarians claim they want to bring the budget under control, but not Orrin Hatch or other Republi-crats. The party now is still the same out-of-control spending party under George Duh Bush. Very little has changed.

    In fact I just read the Republicans are pushing for yet *another* war, but this time against Iran.
    Congressman Ron Paul responded by calling them, "Sick" and "speeding us faster towards bankruptcy."

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  6. *Not* circumventing anything ! by Rollgunner · · Score: 5, Informative

    From the Release:

    The language Hatch was successful in getting inserted in the NASA Authorization Act does not require the new heavy-lift rocket to use solid rocket motors. But delegation members say the Utah experts they consulted say the legislation’s requirements for the heavy-lift rocket can only be realistically met by using solid rocket motors.

    If NASA said "We're going with liquid fuel boosters." they would not be violating the law.
    Even if NASA told ATK "Go to hell... We'll buy our rocket motors from someone else", they would not be violating the law.

    The only way they'll be breaking the law is if they fail to come up with *some* method of making it work within their budget.

    And gee, what a surprise that the stonecutters are telling everyone that stone bridges are the only feasible way to get a ton of lentils across the creek.

  7. Re:Move along, nothing to see by Raenex · · Score: 4, Informative

    But why the enforcement of staying with current contracts? It stinks of the lobbying parent describes.

    Not only does it stink, it's a rotten fish in plain sight. Quoting directly from the statement released by Hatch:

    "My purpose in calling this meeting was to explain in no uncertain terms the Utah congressional delegation's interest in ensuring that Utah's solid rocket motor industry is protected."

    "I will continue with other delegation members to ensure the agency abides by the law and protects this industry that is so vitally important to our national security and northern Utah's economy."

    "delegation members say the Utah experts they consulted say the legislation's requirements for the heavy-lift rocket can only be realistically met by using solid rocket motors"

  8. Re:Hey, what happended to all that Tea Party shit? by G-Man · · Score: 3, Informative

    I don't know anything about Bishop, but (1) Hatch's seat wasn't up for grabs this cycle, and I doubt he is a favorite of the Tea Party, (2) Matheson is a Democrat, and (3) Bennett is a lame duck who was defeated by the Tea Party candidate in the Republican primary. So, what exact point are you trying to make?

  9. Re:You dont... by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 3, Informative

    Tea Party voters already have their sights set on Senator Hatch. He is next up for re-election in 2012 and will probably face a strong primary challenge. The tea party voters have already removed Bob Bennett from office (he lost in the primary this year and is only still a Senator until the end of the year).

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison