A Peek At the National Opt-Out Day Numbers

Yesterday was a big travel day for Americans, and the organizers of National Opt-Out Day hoped to use it to highlight widespread, though not universal, dissatisfaction with stepped-up screening measures in US airports, by encouraging people selected for body screening to insist instead on the pat-down alternative. Reader Willtor writes with a story in the New York Times on the effect of the protest: "'39 people had opted out of the body scans in Atlanta by 5 p.m. In Los Angeles, 113 had. One had opted out in Charlotte, N.C. Boston seemed to have something of a mini-spike, with 300.' This is a tiny fraction of passengers, of course. But when I flew out of Boston this afternoon, they had opened a line that led to a traditional metal detector. When I flew out in June all lines went to the nudie scanners. Is it safe to be optimistic that we have been heard and policies have changed? I am not particularly concerned whether we get credit or whether it is reported that the protest fizzled. But it would be nice to know that some of the more invasive theatrics have become optional." According to its organizers, meanwhile, the opt-out protest was a "rousing success." If you traveled yesterday by air, what was your impression?

Comments

The TSA has not changed policy

[BadAnalogyGuy]

They are switching to standard metal detectors until the furor dies down, then they will ramp up with the scanning and patting.

I expect the switch to resume after Thanksgiving when most travelers will be business travelers who can't afford to spend their time protesting.

Now, if the TSA is right about the necessity of these scanners and enhanced patdowns, this move to temporarily disable the scanners seems like a massive security problem.

Re:The TSA has not changed policy

[Alex Zepeda]

Let's make one thing very clear: these are not pat downs. What I went through when I traveled last year was a (sloppy) pat down. When the TSA needs to inspect your vagina because you're wearing a non-standard menstruation undergarmet, you've gone well past a pat down. Depending on your interpretation of what rape is, it may be appropriate to call the TSA's actions rape or sexual assault.

Get used to the Police State...

[Frosty Piss]

Not only does the TSA not plan to make any changes in response to the scanner issue, they have said that they would like similar "security" for Amtrak and Greyhound. Next up, searches and scanners at malls. Folks, it's too late. We let them have their way for the pas 9 years or so, and they have grown too strong to stop.

Re:Get used to the Police State...

[NoSleepDemon]

Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you go - Rick Astley, "Never Gonna Give You Up"

Re:Get used to the Police State...

[Anonymous Coward]

And you know what? Even if those fancy scanners would reduce my risk of being killed by a terrorist from 1 in 10 million, down to 1 in 20 million... That guy with the ostomy pouch whose was doused in his own urine... that 79 year old WW-II vet with the metal hip... the 3 year old crying child being fondled while her mother restrained her...

I would gladly accept that extra risk to give them a measure of human dignity.

Re:Get used to the Police State...

[Inominate]

It's not just too late, there was never anything we could do to prevent this. For every person who cares, there's a hundred people who don't give a shit. For every hundred people who care, there's maybe one who cares enough to do something. It's a lost cause, not because it's been too long, but because the system follows the people. The people are happy to tolerate this shit in order to feel safe.

Got a problem with the scanners? Care about civil liberties? Guess what? You're a minority that nobody gives a shit about, except much of the country finds your views suspicious. Those of us who care about civil liberties can't compete with the masses who are happy as long as they get theirs.

Entirely predictable.

[Oxford_Comma_Lover]

This was entirely predictable. It's not easy to convince people to let other people--strangers of the same gender--touch them intimately as a form of protest.

It was also predictable that the media would spin it as a failure.

In fact, it probably helped speed security clearances on one of the busiest travel days of the year, because the TSA planned for a larger disruption. At least, that is what I would do, to be safe, and I'd imagine they did it.

The major media covers the story by repeating the TSA talking point that the majority of Americans support the scans. They base this on a Washington Post/ABC poll: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_11222010.html?sid=ST2009122902788

I do think you'd get different numbers if you polled at the airport.

Re:Entirely predictable.

[vux984]

What I'm seeing in these articles are simply lies.

A woman says "I took the scanner, because I was even more unfomfortable with the enhanced pat down" and that's spun as supporting scanners. That's a bald faced lie.

Another woman says "I took the scanner, because I thought if I opted out I would look suspicious, and I just want to get through without a hassle", and that's spun as "not being against scanners"...

For my part, I'd submit to get onto a plane too. My last flight was part of a $5000 vacation package. If my wife and I are not on the plane, its not like we get the money back. I want to enjoy my vacation, and not watch $5k go up in smoke to make a point at the airport.

Bottom line, you can't look at how much resistance you actually see at airports. Its a coercive environment, they hold your vacation or business trip, your freedom, and even your dignity over your head. For a lot of people these are "high stakes"... make a fuss and your expensive flight is missed, your relaxing vacation, or family visit, or business meeting is ruined. And instead your in some sort of legal limbo where they can confiscate your stuff, strip search you, delay you indefinitly... Its no wonder that most travellers just want to fade into the background and get to their destination without hassle.

People don't support for the TSA system. They are terrified of it.

Re:Entirely predictable.

[Anonymous Coward]

People don't support for the TSA system. They are terrified of it.

And now we can all see who the real 'terrorists' are.

Re:Entirely predictable.

[random_ID]

Freedom isn't free.

If Americans want freedom, they will have to stand up and deal with the inconvenience of ruined trips.

Or buckle and give up their freedom.

Re:Entirely predictable.

[anyGould]

That's not what terrorism is.

Actually, that's exactly what terrorism is - the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear

Or in simpler terms, they make you do what they want, because you're afraid of what will happen if you don't.

Re:Entirely predictable.

[Cimexus]

Mod parent up...this is exactly right.

I'm not an American, but my wife is. I therefore enter the US to visit family on a regular basis ... over 20 visits in the last decade. The first time I visited was in 2001, prior to 9/11. The change I have seen in US airports in that time is stunning.

I put up with the slower, more detailed bag x-rays. I put up with the taking your shoes off crap (that you don't have to do in any other country). I put up with the dudes at the immigration desk becoming far more threatening and suspicious and just downright rude.

I ... reluctantly ... put up with the fact that they took first one, then two, and now ALL TEN of my fingerprints on every entry. To put this in perspective, in my country, fingerprints are not used as a form of ID as they seem to be in the US. The only people who have their fingerprints recorded are criminals. So the only people on earth who have a record of my fingerprints are a FOREIGN government (not even my own government has them). Does that seem ridiculous to anyone else? But I digress...

But this year when I entered I had to go through the damn nudie scanners. Now I realised I could opt out, and I did. But as a foreigner, they really gave me the once over. Now let me clarify here - I'm Australian - I speak English, I'm white, I have no criminal record, and I in no way would be considered a 'high risk' profile. But they made it very clear that they didn't want scary foreigners like me opting out of the scanning. And frankly, next trip, I will just go through the damn scanner. The alternative took ten times longer and was far more invasive and left me with a bad impression of the US as a whole. I thought the fingerprinting was the final straw for me but no, this is ridiculous.

So yes, the TSA is terrifying. They make the alternatives to the scanner very unattractive due to the lost time and increased questioning. So people 'preferring the scanner' is not because the like the idea. It's just the lesser of two evils.

It's a real shame - I love visiting the US. For all it's flaws it's a fascinating country. But GETTING there is such an awful experience that I would never do it if not for the fact I have family there. The American tourism industry must REALLY be hurting, because everyone I talk to here says "oh I'd love to go to the US, but all that security and fingerprinting ... no thanks". They all go to Europe or Asia instead.

Re:the opt-out protest was a "rousing success."

[Anonymous Coward]

AAA numbers...

In 2000 6+ million traveled by air
After 2001 it was about 4m. It rebounded to 4.5-5m over next few years.
2008 you begin the slide down in air travel
This year is expected to be slightly more than last year, about 1.6m
Next year??

so 6+million => 1.6 million slide

I used to fly frequently (on average standard). Terrorism never would have stopped me. Maybe 10 flights in 2006. And I was good for the airlines. Only 1 small carry on, no luggage, and I even dressed to get through the metal detectors without causing slowdowns. But now, no way. I will not be paying to be treated as if I was in prison. It doesn't make me feel safer to be xrayed and groped.

I may actually need to travel from Chicago to San Francisco early next year and I'm actually looking at AmTrak. 3 days on a hotel on wheels - sounds better than xrays and molestation...

BTW: New Hampshire has a motto "Live Free or Die". They should change it. We have created our of prisons and the terrorists are laughing...

Well played, TSA, well played

[Anonymous Coward]

It's hard to opt-out if the thing you're opting out of is roped off and not used.

This was a brilliant move by an organization that is not known for its brilliance, ever. Somebody at the TSA is sipping champagne and laughing today at pulling the rug out from underneath the protesters' feet.

The scanners will be back online within days, and then it will be more of the same from the gestapo. But the protest? FAIL. All of the mainstream stories show this to be a non-issue, and now the "protest" numbers back this up in the TSA's world of spin. We got played.

Comply citizen.

Re:Well played, TSA, well played

[Apuleius]

By turning the scanners off, they tacitly admitted that the public's discontent is a bigger issue than Al Qaeda.

Now we just have to make them say it outright.

It's worse.

[toby]

Read this.

Opt-outers (presumably of any TSA procedure on any mode of transport) are tagged "domestic extremists" whose data will be referred to the Extremism and Radicalization Branch, Homeland Environment Threat Analysis Division.

Doubletalk abounds on this issue

[Zero__Kelvin]

"Which, of course, is really quite ironic: during a period when you probably want real, functional security procedures the most (ie, when the most people are traveling), the TSA has to ratchet down their policies in order to handle the load..."

There is nothing ironic about it at all. It is simply proof that even the TSA doesn't believe their own bullshit regarding the importance of said scanners for the purpose they claim. The scanners are already serving their purpose, which is to generate lots of cash and kickbacks. On the one hand they are claiming it keeps things super secure, and on the other the authorities are looking into the possibility a teen stowed away on a plane from North Carolina to Logan. I mean, which is it? These procedures are super important and keep us all safe, or these procedures may well have not even been able to keep some random teen from stowing away on a plane?

Succeeded Before Yesterday

[Bob9113]

The protest was a success well before yesterday. The goal of such civic participation in government is to raise public awareness. The head of the TSA had to think about this, and talk about it in the national media. This enlivened the public debate. That is the exact definition of victory.

If one wants to muse about more concrete short-term victories, consider the lines at the airports yesterday. I have flown on the day before Thanksgiving -- it is not pretty. According to reports, yesterday went significantly more smoothly than in the past. Think about the cause/effect. I suspect the TSA decided they had to stage a good show of efficiency yesterday to defuse the opt-out protest. They put on extra staff and gave rousing pep talks -- and; the airports sucked a little bit less yesterday than they would have otherwise. That is a nice outcome. The protest changed the behavior of our government for a day.

Did this one effort to organize civic participation go exactly as designed and solve the whole problem in one shot? Of course not. Decentralized civic displays -- almost by definition -- cannot work like that.

Civic management of government is a process, and this was a fine step. Much like our debates here in these forums are part of the process. It is the road to a better society. An endless and engaging road winding through an increasingly healthy societal system.

Or more viscerally: It is like using a spray bottle of water to train a puppy; we're going to have to do it more than once before the government learns not to poop on the carpet.

Cut to the chase

[roman_mir]

Let's cut to the chase already.

What they really want is for every house to have a scanner like that on the entrance, so you are scanned and/or patted down every time you enter and exit your house and every other building (and of-course every mode of transportation as well, including the buses, planes, trains and automobiles, yachts and ships and dirigibles and even you bikes.)

This is actually very amusing to me, as I was born in the USSR and one of our best satirists ever (Zhvanetsky) had a few monologues, where he described the soviet experiences in a half-imaginary way

Here is one of the monologues (my translation):

As usually, you are going somewhere, the face as usually is facing forward; The back of the head has no clue.
All of a sudden from behind:
- Continue moving!
- I am continuing.
- So go as you are going.
- I am going as I am going.
- Take a little to the right.
- Will take... taking.
- Don't talk!
- I am silent.
- Stand there, don't look back!
- Standing. Not looking. Letting something pass on the left. What is that behind me?
- DO NOT LOOK BACK!
- Not looking.
- OK, you are free to go!
- Yes, I am free!

here is another one, please don't get on my case for the translation style, it's difficult to translate something well anyway, and to make it even remotely funny while doing so is just ... very hard and I was trying to keep to the way the monologue was read, which was with leaving many of the necessary verbs out of the text on purpose, to create an 'air' of the idea that not every word needs to be spelled out for the listener.

Turnstiles.

At the end of every street need to set up turnstiles. Obviously, you can walk this and that way, as much as you want, but this is pure lack of responsibility - going wherever you want. So at the end of each street set up the turnstiles. Nothing special. They should let everybody through for now without any questions. Don't be afraid. Only the ricketting noise lets you know... And the security guards with sleeve insignia. Let them stand there and let everybody through. For now. Just their presense, just the steel stare... You are coming towards them - the face is burning up, you pass them - you back is burning up. And they are not asking anything... yet. This is the entire effect. And it's increasing the discipling. And at any moment you can lock everything up. Those with special commands have access to any house, etc.

By the perimeter of the plaza - until the security checkpoint. A man is walking along the fence, with the hands moving over the fence. Let's suppose three, four times he moves the hands over the fence - and into the security checkpoint, where NOBODY is stopping him, though the security guards are standing there of-course. Special paint on the fence, easy to check the fingerprints, this and that, etc. My god, nobody REALLY will be taking the fingerprints off the fence, don't worry about it. But in case there is some emergency... the fingerprints are right there and what are you going to do? For now of-course, let them go through without showing any papers. Though to have the papers on your person, that's for sure, just in case they mustc check, some emergency, etc. So obviously as you are coming closer towards the guard there, you already want to show something. To come through without showing - that's only to be suffering in doubt. In time you won't mind any of the checks. It will be a shame to walk around unchecked. All the more so - to come of a sudden and somewhere, as you do now. Or to yell - "my house is my castle" - that's just from internal immorality.

But IN the corridors you don't need to put security guards. For now. You have to start at the entrance, of-co

That's a tacit admission: teh scanners are crap.

[Apuleius]

If on the busiest travel day of the year, the TSA felt it was more important to get people on the planes than to scan them like that, which means they know perfectly well the risk of a terror attack is not that great, and the scanners do fuckall to address the risk.

Now we just have to rub it in their faces.

Re:the opt-out protest was a "rousing success."

[Anonymous Coward]

so 6+million => 1.6 million slide/quote?

Please, p[ease, please, provide a reliable citation for those numbers.
My google-fu is not strong enough.

I promise to use the power wisely and email just about everybody I know with them if they are supportable.

You ask and I deliver,

AAA Thanksgiving travel chart

Let's hope it will be there for a while :)

I try not to bullshit and pull random stuff out of my ass... Good luck.

Re:Seatac had scanners galore but weren't using th

[liquidsin]

how fucked up is it when the nicest thing anyone has to say about the TSA is that they didn't fondle his daughter and let him have bottled water after they "examined it fairly closely". and you refer to these as "positive interactions"...