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SAP Ordered To Pay $1.3 Billion To Oracle
bdcny7927 writes with news that a jury decided to award Oracle $1.3 billion in their lawsuit against SAP after deliberating for less than a day. "The verdict ... is the biggest ever for copyright infringement and the largest US jury award of 2010, according to Bloomberg data. The award is about equal to SAP’s forecasted net income for the fourth quarter, excluding some costs, according to the average estimate of analysts... SAP spokesman Bill Wohl said the German software maker will pursue all available options, including post-trial motions and will appeal if necessary."
$1.3 billion eh? By RIAA accounting standards that sounds to me like they may have copied 7, or maybe even 8 songs! Burn!!!
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
So... an American jury finds in favor of an American company in an American court, and orders a foreign company to pay a huge sum after almost no deliberation at all.
Am I the only one reminded of how all-white juries always used to find in favor of the white victims, in courts staffed with all whites, after almost no deliberation at all, when the defendants were black? If it had been SAP suing Oracle, would the outcome have been the same, and would it have come as quickly?
...LAST WEEK when it was actually news.
I'm Peggy.
for all I know SAP could totally be in the right.
But I still love seeing them in pain.. after all the pain they've caused everyone else.
A legal battle between SAP and Oracle sounds like a (forgive me, Godwin) war between Nazi Germany and Stalinist Soviet Union.
Whoever loses, they deserved it, and I hope no one wins.
SAP in fact tried buying Oracle off but I guess their offer wasn't high enough. The trial mainly existed to determine the size of the fine.
It really bugs me that there seem to be these stories, mostly about copyright-related lawsuits, where the OP assumes that everyone on Slashdot knows what the lawsuit was about. Well, I don't know what Oracle sued SAP for, and if I did I forgot. Who can keep these acronyms and company names straight anyway? If it were just once I wouldn't be bothered to RTFA but I shouldn't have to RTFA just to understand the summary of a story that normally I wouldn't care that much about. These things seem to come up once every couple of days though.
I sometimes ask revealing, often ignorant-seeming questions. Maybe they're harder to answer than you think.
Ummm...no.
Ummm... yes.
Damages should also be based on some sort of "punishment" factor.
Damages by definition really should be based on how much DAMAGE was caused.
A punitive fine in addition to damages may be appropriate though.
I would think it is important to prevent companies from simply writing off illegal activities and paying off some trivial amount of money in the even they get caught.
Even if the "activities" only caused trivial damage?
So... an American jury finds in favor of an American company in an American court, and orders a foreign company to pay a huge sum after almost no deliberation at all.
SAP abandoned - in August - any pretense of contesting Oracle's claims of copyright infringement. SAP Proposes Not to Contest Oracle's Copyright Claims
That implies as well that SAP had accepted the jurisdiction of the U.S. federal court.
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- On the losing end of a $1.3 billion jury verdict for stealing a rival's intellectual property, SAP AG is facing the difficult decision about whether to double down -- by appealing -- or folding.
Either route is going to cost the German company dearly, and will have implications for how other technology companies approach copyrights.
A jury in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California on Tuesday found that SAP's behavior in plundering software and documents from archenemy Oracle Corp.'s secured websites was so egregious that it awarded Oracle nearly all of the damages it was seeking.
If SAP appeals, it will have to endure several more years of disastrous publicity, a jackpot for Oracle.
"I'm not sure what the grounds for an appeal are -- I'm not sure what the argument would be," said Patrick Walravens, an analyst with JMP Securities. "It's not like this was a trial that was done in a quick and dirty manner. It was three years and hundreds of millions in legal fees -- things were pretty well vetted."
The judge in the case still has to formally affirm the jury's verdict, and could reduce the award. An order could come sometime in the next week.
Many analysts suspect that SAP will stand down and try and figure out a way to pay one of the biggest software piracy penalties on record. Doing so would put the $10 million acquisition of the tiny, now-shuttered company called TomorrowNow that landed SAP in this mess that much farther in the rearview mirror. SAP at a crossroads after losing $1.3B verdict
Lose and loose are different words.
Oh and SAP already admitted guilt, the jury was tasked with setting the award. Sorry if that puts a damper on your little USA bash.
You can download almost all of Oracle's software right from their website for personal or educational use. You are expected to have a license though if you use it to conduct any business transactions. I believe that they also have a 'lite' edition of their database in case you wanted to also try that out. From their website:
Software Downloads
Developers:
All software downloads are free, and most come with a Developer License that allows you to use full versions of the products at no charge while developing and prototyping your applications, or for strictly self-educational purposes. You can buy products with full-use licenses at any time from the online Store or from your sales representative.
Customers:
If you already have a commercial license you should download your software from our E-Delivery site, which is specifically designed for customer fulfillment. For patches, see My Oracle Support.
Best "String" Ever!
Basically SAP was illegally distributing Oracles software. They were also copying Oracles patches and reworking them so they would work with the pirated oracle software. Think of it as somebody selling bootleg windows and also supplying bootleg patches.
SAP admitted to having done it. It was estimated that if they had been selling legal licenses and service contracts it would have been anywhere between 560 million and 3 billion, so 1.3 billion is a middle ground figure.
This is one fight where Oracle actually isn't being evil and was legitimately getting ripped off.
It was password protected. TomorrowNow had employees download PeopleSoft updates and patches under an Oracle support contract, and then illegally redistributed them to their customers.
http://www.cmswire.com/cms/enterprise-cms/sap-admits-liability-in-oracle-software-piracy-case-009028.php
The Oracle hatred distortion field seems to be blocking out this pertinent fact. Is there a way to disable it for 24 hours?
Well since I can't remember seeing real troll behavior from you I'll assume you are really confused and explain: Support. Just like you can buy Windows 7 in everything from Starter to Ultimate with different features included, with Oracle you get different levels of support and downloads for different tiers. What SAP did was pretend to be Oracle customers and download ALL the features and extras for ALL the levels of support and then proceeded to undercut them on their own product. It would be like you going to Apple stores and setting up your "brand new Hackintosh RAZR1911 Edition" for sale. Needless to say that didn't go over well.
So I really don't see how SAP can bitch. They bought a company whose entire business plan was based on theft, admitted the company was stealing, and now they have to pay the price. You can't just let companies like this off on whatever the cost of the theft was, otherwise I could steal from you and if caught just give back the original while keeping the interest. the judgment has to be nasty to deter others who would do the same thing. But no matter what you think of Oracle they have the right to sell their software anyway they choose, and the company SAP bought stole patches and support that they had no right to and for a profit.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
You are looking at this wrong, look at it THIS way: If I made $100,000 selling hot copies of "Windows 7 all editions 32+64 bit activated" DVDs for $1 a piece, did I only cause $100,000 worth of lost sales to MSFT? I think not. They were using STOLEN software to undercut the ones that WROTE the software, no different than someone trying to sell burnt DVDs or Hackintoshes loaded with hot copies of OSX on the street corner.
To me the telling part of this case is the former CEO hid out to keep from getting subpoenaed which tells me they probably knew about the thefts for a looong time and decided to keep shut about it. I mean, how could they not? You telling me a company the size of SAP is gonna buy a company without even doing enough due diligence to find out their MAIN source of revenue was piracy? C'mon now, that dog just don't hunt.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Yes, that would be a valid point, but still the damages aren't damages... This is pure profit for Oracle. And a confession in the USA isn't worth anything in the rest of the world. We all seen the figures about how many people would rather plead guilty for a crime they didn't do in order to avoid the life-destroying sentences. So a confession just doesn't hold any true value. But even when really guilty (let's assume they are guilty of simplicity) this is just pure profit. And I bet a couple of those non-knowing jury members found it a nice opportunity to fuck something un-american.