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The Pirate Bay Co-Founder Starting P2P-DNS
An anonymous reader writes "The Pirate Bay Co-Founder, Peter Sunde, has started a new project which will provide a decentralized p2p based DNS system. This is a direct result of the increasing control which the US government has over ICANN. The project is called P2P-DNS and according to the project's wiki, this is how the project is described: 'P2P-DNS is a community project that will free internet users from imperial control of DNS by ICANN. In order to prevent unjust prosecution or denial of service, P2P-DNS will operate as a distributed and less centralized service hosted by the users of DNS. Temporary substitutes, (as Alpha and Beta developments), are being made ready for deployment. A network with no centralized points of failure, (per the original design of the internet), remains our goal. P2P-DNS is developing rapidly.'"
But there is so, so much potential for spammers to kill it before it gets out of the gate good. Spammers so far have killed quite a large number of things that used to be cool on the internet and they're not going to stop until they're reigned in or nobody uses anything electronic anymore because of them.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
When you violate US copyright law, the feds really just kinda laugh and say "ok, sure, whatever."
When you try and prevent the US government from taking over something they've set their sights on dominating, they're a whole other kind of aggressive beast.
watch your back dude...
This has been tried, several times. With the same problems popping up again and again.
Such as "The DNS is a hierarchical namespace, P2P type controls work only for flat namespaces. Yet generally people like hierarchical namespaces."
and "Without a good notion of cryptographic trust, you're doomed in a P2P setting. And if you think a PKI is hard to get right...".
Test your net with Netalyzr
Though they didn't even shut down wikileaks yet..
hosts files.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
This is not the first time that an alternative Domain Name System has been proposed. Starting with AlterNIC in 1997, alternative DNS has had a controversial history. Many have ceased to function now because of the lack of adoption from users. However, coming right after the controversial seizure of 80 domains by the US government, P2P-DNS might just get enough support to make it a success.
My personal problem with the seizure of 80 domains really isn't that big of a deal. It sucks and it's probably a sign of the abuse of power from the DHS's Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). But in the end, it was widely announced and advertised. It wasn't done under the cover of secrecy and they at least gave reasons as to why they were seized. For me, this isn't a reason to change the DNS root server that I use. Especially facing slower resolve times and security issues like DNS poisoning.
... yet. If we see the US government doing what China's doing and not announcing who's being seized and why, then you will see me jump on board this.
I can tell you I'm not interested in that trade off
My close friend used borntrade.net which was a knockoff jersey site from a factory in China. Their crime? Avoiding tariffs and not paying tribute to the NHL/MLB/NFL/NBA gods. He might want to use your DNS but I would assume it would only be to conduct business through borntrade.net and not to actually use it on a daily basis. Disclaimer: I think I've seen borntrade bots spamming the Slashdot forums before but now that it's just a DHS/DoJ logo splash screen, you can rest assured I'm not some guy trying to send you there by way of a fake comment.
I would guess that despite the domains being seized, you're going to see the general public not care that much and again the project will fail from lack of adoption. Clandestine government working against the people? Yeah, a few more people are going to hop on board and put up with the speed and security issues. But could someone outline how the whole public would get on board with this? I mean, assuming it's as simple as a browser plugin you can't even get people to install those when the benefits are obvious.
My work here is dung.
...see this being mysteriously stopped by unknown forces.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
1: how could you stop malware developers flooding the network and pointing every request to an exploit filled page?
2: would this be a router's worst nightmare?
A completely decentralized internet would be nothing less than the holy grail of communications. So let's try to support those who strive for this noble goal. A centralized network, no matter how "democratic", is ultimately founded on political power, and I certainly don't have to explain why political power can't be trusted.
It doesn't really seem like you even really need a domain name these days. I don't even notice the name of a lot of sites I find through google. These days they're really just a symptom of the corporate takeover of the Internet, but the standards they rely on are just a bunch of documents from people suggesting that something might be a good idea. Now that the lines have been drawn and ICANN is showing its colors (again) it's time for people to start having some other good ideas. If most people are happy with corporations turning the Internet into a giant cable TV station with tolls for everything, that's fine, but if you don't like that situation you can do something else. People "in the know" can be as much or as little a part of the mainstream Internet as they want to.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
...or he'll soon be on interpol's list.
When I see stuff like this, I have to wonder - who's going to use it?
The answer, of course, is a simple one: people who care about shit like this. However, they make up such a small percentage of the internet using population that most others won't bother. Are everyday users going to start hacking their iPhones, Blackberries and Android devices so that they can get around the "imperial" 3g regimes that the telecoms provide?
Indeed, perhaps these are also the same people that are sponsoring Diaspora...
One does have to sometimes wonder if Peter is running from a force that exists only in his own head. There's no monster under your bed, mate. Now, go to sleep. Tomorrow is a new day.
why such a thing didnt come into being MUCH earlier. i mean, up till this time, almost entire control of internet in regard to this, has been in the hands of a single country .... isnt it ridiculous ?
Read radical news here
Most major systems have a WINS client, I doubt nearly anyone is using it at home.
Write a resolver that mimics WINS to the client and then behind the scenes use a modern P2P encrypted network.
No client work is needed, no DNS passthru is needed and no DNS baggage is needed.
Now you have a foothold until you spend the time to write a native client.
Plz stop saying I'm the guy behind the new DNS-system. I'm just one of lots of people with interest in it. Everyone does their part!
https://twitter.com/#!/brokep/status/9684729515220992
You cannot beat those who wish to share. You cannot win against the vast numbers. Take one down and 10 sprout to replace the fallen one. The harder you hunt them the more difficult it will be to find them. Stop fighting a battle you cannot win concerning control.
Instead, change your pricing structure, change your delivery methods, stop wasting money on DRM people like me bypass in mere seconds.
This is the future and you are merely in denial. Learn, adapt, and you'll be amazed at the success you will have.
1.) Adblock blocks ads in only 1 browser family (Disclaimer: Opera now has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF...).
2.) HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program).
3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF, Hosts files do.
4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 4-7 next below).
4.) Adblock doesn't allow you to hardcode in your favorite websites into it so you don't make DNS server calls and so you can avoid tracking by DNS request logs, hosts do (DNS servers are also being abused by the Chinese lately and by the Kaminsky flaw for years now - hosts protect against that via hardcodes of your fav sites (you should verify against the TLD that does nothing but cache IPAddress-to-domainname/hostname resolutions via PINGS &/or WHOIS though, regularly, so you have the correct IP & it's current)).
5.) HOSTS files protect you vs. DNS-poisoning &/or the Kaminsky flaw in DNS servers, and allow you to get to sites reliably vs. things like the Chinese are doing to DNS -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders
6.) AdBlock doesn't let you block out known bad sites or servers that are known to be maliciously scripted, hosts can and many reputable lists for this exist:
http://ddanchev.blogspot.com/
https://zeustracker.abuse.ch/monitor.php?filter=online
http://www.malware.com.br/lists.shtml
http://www.stopbadware.org/
http://blog.fireeye.com/
http://mtc.sri.com/
http://news.netcraft.com/
http://www.shadowserver.org/
http://www.mvps.org/
http://someonewhocares.org/
http://hostsfile.mine.nu/hosts0
http://hosts-file.net/?s=Download
http://www.stopbadware.org/home
7.) HOSTS files will allow you to get to sites you like, via hardcoding your favs into a HOSTS file, FAR faster than DNS servers can by FAR (by saving the roundtrip inquiry time to a DNS server & back to you).
8.) AdBlock is a program, and subject to bugs programs can get. Hosts files are merely a filter and not a program, thus not subject to bugs of the nature just discussed.
9.) Hosts files don't eat up CPU cycles like AdBlock does while it parses a webpages' content.
10.) HOSTS files are EASILY user controlled, obtained (for reliable ones -> http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm ) & edited too, via texteditors like Windows notepad.exe or Linux nano (etc.)
11.) You don't have the sourcecode to Adblock. With hosts you don't even need source to control it (edit, update, delete, insert of new entries via a text editor).
12.) Hosts files are easily secured via using MAC/ACL &/or Read-Only attributes applied.
13.) AND, LASTLY? SINCE MALWARE GENERALLY HAS TO OPERATE ON WHAT YOU YOURSELF CAN DO (running as limited class/least privlege user, hopefully, OR even as ADMIN/ROOT/SUPERUSER)? HOSTS "LOCK IN" malware too, vs. communicating "back to mama" for orders (provided they have name
Before embarking in this project, shouldn't he finish his replacement for BitTorrent he announced a few years back?
I'm sure the DNS project will be as successful as that one.
Just like they attacked Iran.... I think we're going to see more governments and corportations using Viruses to try and slow down the competition.
1.) Adblock blocks ads in only 1 browser family (Disclaimer: Opera now has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF...).
2.) HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program).
3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF, Hosts files do.
4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 4-7 next below).
4.) Adblock doesn't allow you to hardcode in your favorite websites into it so you don't make DNS server calls and so you can avoid tracking by DNS request logs, hosts do (DNS servers are also being abused by the Chinese lately and by the Kaminsky flaw -> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/082908-kaminsky-flaw-prompts-dns-server.html for years now). Hosts protect against those problems via hardcodes of your fav sites (you should verify against the TLD that does nothing but cache IPAddress-to-domainname/hostname resolutions via PINGS &/or WHOIS though, regularly, so you have the correct IP & it's current)).
5.) HOSTS files protect you vs. DNS-poisoning &/or the Kaminsky flaw in DNS servers, and allow you to get to sites reliably vs. things like the Chinese are doing to DNS -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders
6.) AdBlock doesn't let you block out known bad sites or servers that are known to be maliciously scripted, hosts can and many reputable lists for this exist:
http://ddanchev.blogspot.com/
https://zeustracker.abuse.ch/monitor.php?filter=online
http://www.malware.com.br/lists.shtml
http://www.stopbadware.org/
http://blog.fireeye.com/
http://mtc.sri.com/
http://news.netcraft.com/
http://www.shadowserver.org/
http://www.mvps.org/
http://someonewhocares.org/
http://hostsfile.mine.nu/hosts0
http://hosts-file.net/?s=Download
http://www.stopbadware.org/home
7.) HOSTS files will allow you to get to sites you like, via hardcoding your favs into a HOSTS file, FAR faster than DNS servers can by FAR (by saving the roundtrip inquiry time to a DNS server & back to you).
8.) AdBlock is a program, and subject to bugs programs can get. Hosts files are merely a filter and not a program, thus not subject to bugs of the nature just discussed.
9.) Hosts files don't eat up CPU cycles like AdBlock does while it parses a webpages' content.
10.) HOSTS files are EASILY user controlled, obtained (for reliable ones -> http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm ) & edited too, via texteditors like Windows notepad.exe or Linux nano (etc.)
11.) You don't have the sourcecode to Adblock. With hosts you don't even need source to control it (edit, update, delete, insert of new entries via a text editor).
12.) Hosts files are easily secured via using MAC/ACL &/or Read-Only attributes applied.
13.) AND, LASTLY? SINCE MALWARE GENERALLY HAS TO OPERATE ON WHAT YOU YOURSELF
Most desktop systems may have WINS installed, but those oh so important servers probably don't (why on earth would google install samba on all its linux boxen, for example?). Besides, you've somewhat glossed over the issue with "Write a resolver that mimics WINS to the client and then behind the scenes use a modern P2P encrypted network." That's the hard bit - whether its DNS or WINS resolution is a mere technical detail. Building a system that can provide reliable, quick and above all *trustworthy* resolution over p2p is difficult. I hope he/they can find a way, but I doubt that they will.
Accused of rape in a friendly foreign country, more likely.
He's Swedish. He doesn't need to travel anywhere to be accused of rape.
If spammers are such a problem, then we just need a distributed final solution to the spammer question. I recommend the new German microwave ovens; they seat five thousand.
I write sci-fi for metalheads
Karl Denninger, Chicago's most despised internet citizen, now Tea Party wacko dispensing Capital Market advice/doom in Florida, once tried to take ICANN on in 1997 and create eDNS, an alternate DNS with new root servers. Mostly under his direction. He failed. Funny, he doesn't mention that in his bio when he appears as the resident doomsayer on one of the financial networks on tv these days.
Nevertheless, it's a good history lesson in taking ICANN head on. Peter Sunde has something truly subversive, the people taking back the name server space. Let's see if Karl can get on board with this, he's usually preaching that the people need to take pitchforks and torches and march in the street.
Even as a hybrid node, WINS is limited to 15 characters (last bit for browser announce) so we'd run out of address space quick. Plus if memory serves (it's been a while), routers will not pass NBT traffic without implicit configuration.
When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
"All you have to do now is automate the process of updating it. You could have some sort of program that acted both as a client and a server..." - by maxume (22995) on Wednesday December 01, @09:23AM (#34403684)
Examples of what you're asking for have been done (I've done one myself even), but here are some "examples thereof":
HOSTSMAN:
http://www.abelhadigital.com/hostsman
HOSTESS:
http://www.raymarron.com/hostess/
I am FAIRLY sure those do "remote updates", but check to be sure...
(and, there ARE others too, but that's what I came up with on "short-notice" - I *think* mvps.org possibly even has one with the HOSTS file they distribute)
OR
You can just go to these sites & get current copies:
https://zeustracker.abuse.ch/blocklist.php?download=hostfile
http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/
http://hostsfile.org/hosts.html
http://hostsfile.mine.nu/downloads/
http://hosts-file.net/?s=Download
To name a few reputable & reliable + regularly updated models of HOSTS files (the program I wrote consolidates them all, removes duplicates, alphabetizes the entries, + changes the "blocking IP Address" format from 127.0.0.1 (slowest & largest), to 0.0.0.0 (next slowest & largest) to 0 (not compatible w/ all OS' anymore, but was until Windows VISTA & still is on 2000/XP/Server 2003) & lastly "Trims" them so that no trailing bloating blanks remain (which is what happens in DB engines like Access since no VARCHAR type is present in Access, as it is in mySQL, SQLServer, Oracle, DB2 etc./et al where you can use SELECT * DISTINCT / ORDER BY type queries to do the same as far as removing duplicates, sorts, etc.)
APK
P.S.=> Mine's for personal use (I didn't build in the HTTPGET functionality into it, because I simply email my HOSTS file (a composite of all others + 30,000 or so adbanner blocks I put into it myself) to others that request it, & other programs like that already exist (but they don't do quite as much as mine does otherwise per the list of its functions I put into it above))... apk
Hosts files are ignored if you are on a proxy.
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
Two things. First - WINS is, as it's name implies - Windows Only. Many servers in the back room are not Windows. Secondly most "major systems" whatever that means don't even run WINS anymore.
That I'll have to add as a "caveat", & you're correct afaik (but, why use proxies from home? To post anonymously & to pull bogus stuff?? I can't see valid reasons for it, because PROXIES SLOW YOU DOWN BADLY MOST OF THE TIME, especially "highly anonymous" ones)...
Nice point though - I take it AdBlock isn't subject to that (is it)? Well, IF that's the case, then it makes sense WHY I listed using BOTH AdBlock &/or HOSTS in combination... "layered security" to protect you on ALL fronts & possible scenarios! Even the one you post now...
Still, I actually LIKE when you folks "take pot shots" @ that list of mine above where I extoll the virtues of HOSTS files usage.
(It only makes me make that list, all the more stronger vs. nitpicking!)
APK
P.S.=> Any problems with that which I wrote above, point-by-point? Thanks... apk
Yet Tor supports DNS out of the box with just a quick option in torrc:
DNSPort 51
Set your DNS-host on all interfaces to localhost, removing everything else, and off you go.. Anonymous DNS.
Yes, it's slow, it often fails and the system can be tricked to produce false IPs, although there are some simple measurements against it. However, if you want anonymity from dedicated adversaries, it's crucial to know how to properly hide DNS lookups. If anonymity is important to you, the suckiness will matter less to you.
For most of us, it's too insecure and overkill, but for some, it's a viable option since the alternatives can mean torture and death.
I'm sure it is possible to improve on this considerably. You will never reach 100% security, but it can become tolerable for private usage.
The greatest accomplishments were never easy.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
Obviously, writing a new resolver isn't easy, and using DNS is easy, but also easily intercepted by the ISP.
I was just reminded that WINS may be limited to 15 characters, which pretty much rules it out anyway.
Oh well, that's what brainstorming is for. The answer to this is going to be outside of DNS as we know it today.
The Torrentfreak article says:
Have to show? Have to show to whom? It sounds like they already have a centralized authority.
If you are so concerned about "preventing scammers from taking over brands" then you're going to have some mechanism for dealing with scammers. And if that mechanism exists, then governments probably can use it to deal with you.
And also, frankly, the narrow focus on one TLD, "p2p" hints that these guys aren't thinking very big.
I think creating a new sabotage/coercion resistant DNS is a worthy goal. Remember that COICA and the recent seizures are just another straw on the camel's back, in a long history of governments interfering with DNS, people disagreeing with ICANN policies, and whatnot. The need isn't going away until it gets solved. But these particular guys have already taken at least 1 step in the wrong direction. That one line about registration shows that protecting freedom of expression isn't their top priority, but if it's not the top priority, then the system won't solve the problem people have with ICANN's DNS.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Or better yet, WTF are host files? Non-techs can sort of understand ABP, as it is an add-on that stops bad or all ads. Host files, no way an average computer user would understand them or utilize them.
The words of the day are:
Mimic, Resolver, and Client.
Either way, this won't work due to other limitations.
I just want to say that I don't know what Peter Sunde looks like and I probably have never met him since I don't live on the same continent, but he totally raped me. This undermines the credibility of his project, because rapists are known for their incompetence at managing software projects.
"Or better yet, WTF are host files? Non-techs can sort of understand ABP, as it is an add-on that stops bad or all ads. Host files, no way an average computer user would understand them or utilize them." - by stonewallred (1465497) on Wednesday December 01, @10:40AM (#34404550)
Take a GOOD solid read (and if still in doubt? Refer to this mvps.org link -> http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm (it has a great writeup that's EASILY UNDERSTOOD & very detailed, on HOSTS)) - this will show you how/why HOSTS files are superior to AdBlock or even DNS servers on MANY accounts (and why you ought to use them in combination for the "best in 'layered security'" practices online!
14 ADVANTAGES OF HOSTS FILES OVER DNS SERVERS &/or ADBLOCK:
1.) Adblock blocks ads in only 1 browser family (Disclaimer: Opera now has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF...).
2.) HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program).
3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF, Hosts files do.
4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 4-7 next below).
5.) Adblock doesn't allow you to hardcode in your favorite websites into it so you don't make DNS server calls and so you can avoid tracking by DNS request logs, hosts do (DNS servers are also being abused by the Chinese lately and by the Kaminsky flaw -> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/082908-kaminsky-flaw-prompts-dns-server.html for years now). Hosts protect against those problems via hardcodes of your fav sites (you should verify against the TLD that does nothing but cache IPAddress-to-domainname/hostname resolutions via PINGS &/or WHOIS though, regularly, so you have the correct IP & it's current)).
6.) HOSTS files protect you vs. DNS-poisoning &/or the Kaminsky flaw in DNS servers, and allow you to get to sites reliably vs. things like the Chinese are doing to DNS -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders
7.) AdBlock doesn't let you block out known bad sites or servers that are known to be maliciously scripted, hosts can and many reputable lists for this exist:
GOOD INFORMATION ON MALWARE BEHAVIOR LISTING BOTNET C&C SERVERS + MORE (AS WELL AS REMOVAL LISTS FOR HOSTS):
http://ddanchev.blogspot.com/
http://www.malware.com.br/lists.shtml
http://www.stopbadware.org/
http://blog.fireeye.com/
http://mtc.sri.com/
http://news.netcraft.com/
http://www.shadowserver.org/
http://www.stopbadware.org/home
REGULARLY UPDATED HOSTS FILES SITES (reputable/reliable sources):
http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org]
http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ [someonewhocares.org]
http://hostsfile.org/hosts.html [hostsfile.org]
http://hostsfile.mine.nu/downloads/ [hostsfile.mine.nu]
correct me if I am wrong here.
In theory, if ipv6 ever really gets its legs, I should be able to setup my own DNS private root server(s) for a bunch friends, that can be reached by the public (or just my friends) through my root server and use whatever domain system we like (myserver.gofyourself.andyourmother) resolving to my assigned blocks. Basically creating a private internet, only navigable (other than by dumb luck) to any of the computers or servers that participate in my little corner of the internet. Now I know you can do this with ipv4 and so on, but it should become easier with ipv6 space being so much larger.
right?
I don't see any innovation here and OpenDNS is already doing it too.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
How about BIND vs. what the Chinese are doing to DNS lately? See here:
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders
(The Chinese seem to like playing with the routes DNS worldwide used VERY recently & what's routed + to where, in short/summation).
OR, vs. DNS vs. the "Kaminsky DNS flaw", here:
http://www.scmagazineus.com/new-bind-9-dns-flaw-is-worse-than-kaminskys/article/140872/
(Seems others are saying that some NEW "Bind9 flaw" is worse than the Kaminsky flaw ALONE, up there, mind you...)
---
?
Is BIND "proof" to those? Not afaik!
DNS has some "issues", & it's too bad... even DJBDNS, once touted "invulnerable", had to pay out $10,000 as a reward because of bugs found in it (they paid up honorably & fast too though).
Still - IF you're going to use DNS servers for home usage (and you will, you can't "cache" the entire internet in a HOSTS file really)?
Try this (can't do this on an AD/ActiveDirectory setup, or things like FULL outlook + exchange screwup (AD is a directory service & uses LDAP for access to x500 directories)):
OpenDNS or ScrubIT DNS (even GOOGLE DNS) are solid options (because for example, OpenDNS was the FIRST to make changes in DNS once folks like Dan Kaminsky started finding errors in it, or others like Moxie Marlinspike (0 error).
APK
P.S.=> I'd really like to know if BIND or other DNS servers (sans DNSSEC) are "proof" vs. the above 2 exploits, or other forms of "DNS poisoning"... thanks! apk
Peter Sunde is actually Norwegian and Finnish (family and citizenship), but he does live in Sweden.
Hosts files no longer make sense in a current computing environment, being to slow to update, maintain and distribute.
APK
Yeah, I don't see that happening. Xe Services would have a tough time even getting weapons into Sweden. And their "employees" would raise suspicion before they even enter the country due to the Europe wide travel/immigration information systems (see Schengen) and monitoring.
Nevermind that the functional civil society with police, SWAT, military forces, real security at all airports, air space control with modern fighter jets and so on. Of course they could get some illegal weapons, but that would hardly go unnoticed by local police. There is only so much you can do without getting noticed. Guns, shootings and murder is unusual here.
Even if they succeed in killing their target, how do you expect to escape? Shoot your way out of Europe? They wouldn't get far no matter what. And there's no bribing the prosecution to get out of jail.
There are "different rules" for operating in Western nations and places like Iraq, Somalia and Afghanistan. Where you can bribe the inefficient, corrupt police, if they actually care to look at all. Where you can ignore whatever borders the nation has, because what air force is going to control it? No, I think they would blink several times before doing anything in the West...
Comcast is doing WONDERS to educate the public about the importance of DNS.
Years ago, just after the SECOND major Comcast outage, I switched from Comcast nameservers to some pretty old and reliable AT&T nameservers at 4.2.2.1. Of course there was OpenDNS also but it's a pain to remember their DNS server IP addresses.
Since then I switched to Google's free DNS - same benefit, but faster and "8.8.8.8" and "8.8.4.4" is -incredibly- easy for people to remember.
Now with Comcast's THIRD major DNS outage, people resorted to using Facebook and Twitter using just their mobile phones. Guess what? Nearly everyone who bitched about Comcast got a reply from some friend, just go plug in these numbers in Network Settings... and many did! The word IS spreading....
oh goody, i want, i want, i want, how can i help make this a reality quicker the better....is there a list to help sign up for to stay on as proxy for these dns servers?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/secunia_back_from_dns_hack/
So, yes: Even "security pros" get hit by ordinary DNS setups' problems (sans DNSSEC being employed & not everyone has that, in fact, the majority don't)!
(DO see that, it's VERY recent, this past week in fact)...
There isn't a DAMNED THING they can do about it, other than set the DNS records straight, & THEN? Then, they have to wait for "mass propogation" so it flows to ALL the DNS servers out there!
(DNS redirection &/or poisoning are a real problem... top that off with what the Chinese are doing routing DNS info around so they can parse data coming thru, & the Moxie Marlinspike "0 error" PLUS the Kaminsky flaw? Hey - YOU decide!)
The Kaminsky flaw makes it TRIVIAL to exploit!
E.G.-> Dan Kaminsky's shown how, in seconds, he can poison/misdirect ANY DNS SERVER, via "bum rushing" enmasse flooding DNS servers (especially those set in recursive mod) w/ false redirecting information... problem being, DNS servers accept what comes to them FIRST, & if that's "bogus data"?? You're history!
Even DJBDNS, once called "invulnerable" had to pay out $10,000 to those that found security vulnerabilities &/or bugs in it & not TOO long ago either... it happens, a lot, lately!
APK
P.S.=> No, nowadays? Use "layered security" online, HOSTS, and in your browsers with addons like AdBlock + NoScript (FF & Opera have there), or, native "block lists" browsers have (e.g. Opera's URLFILTER.INI file & ff + ie have these too) plus a good .pac file, if not a custom cascading style sheet to filter out various tags/scripts etc. too...
For "layered security"? Hey - it's all EASILY doable, above & beyond just using any 1 single approach, & it helps! apk
Counterfeit trade is actually a *HUGE* problem. Lots of stuff on ebay is not what it is suppose to be - it's garbage. There is no difference buying a knockoff than someone basically staling from you or worse.
Remember the issue with the fake i7 920 processors at new egg? Fake toothpaste (with antifreeze in it)? Melamine in milk and milk products from China? That's all part of the same problem - counterfeiting. If ALL counterfeits disappeared tomorrow, the world would be much better, safer place.
Copyright infringement is a type of counterfeiting too. Though people like ICE tend to be only involved when money is involved... maybe RIAA was bitching at them for a long time about those websites (ie. "counterfeit" MP3 files?).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfeit
A report by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development indicates that up to US$200 Billion of international trade could have been in counterfeit and illegally-copied goods in 2005. In November 2009, the OECD updated these estimates, concluding that the share of counterfeit and pirated goods in world trade had increased from 1.85% in 2000 to 1.95% in 2007. That represents an increase to US$250 billion worldwide.
Troll, you have no idea about security, and have no idea about computing in general.
Go and tarnish someone elses good name
APK
P.S.=> Just because you CAPITALIZE certain WORDS does not give your point any more CREDIBILITY
"Hosts files no longer make sense in a current computing environment, being to slow to update, maintain and distribute. APK" - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @11:47AM (#34405438)
Funny I show QUITE otherwise below!
Custom HOSTS files are easily distributed across LAN/WAN environs too, via logon scripts, & easily deployed on a local system (via copies/overwrite or even manual edits, & I supply reputable + reliable sources for that below no less).
What are my "naysayers" here all afraid of?
Are my naysayers here impersonating me as they have above, because they're MALWARE MAKERS perhaps??
Malware makers who KNOW that custom HOST FILES put a MAJOR DENT into their illegal enterprises, perhaps???
It seems so... especially replying as AC as this one has (2nd time this week, lol).
Take a GOOD read of MY words (not this dull-witted impersonator I quote above, 2nd time this week no less, lol, like they're "fooling" anyone reading):
---
14 ADVANTAGES OF HOSTS FILES OVER DNS SERVERS &/or ADBLOCK:
1.) Adblock blocks ads in only 1 browser family (Disclaimer: Opera now has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF...).
2.) HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program).
3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF, Hosts files do.
4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 4-7 next below).
5.) Adblock doesn't allow you to hardcode in your favorite websites into it so you don't make DNS server calls and so you can avoid tracking by DNS request logs, hosts do (DNS servers are also being abused by the Chinese lately and by the Kaminsky flaw -> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/082908-kaminsky-flaw-prompts-dns-server.html for years now). Hosts protect against those problems via hardcodes of your fav sites (you should verify against the TLD that does nothing but cache IPAddress-to-domainname/hostname resolutions via PINGS &/or WHOIS though, regularly, so you have the correct IP & it's current)).
6.) HOSTS files protect you vs. DNS-poisoning &/or the Kaminsky flaw in DNS servers, and allow you to get to sites reliably vs. things like the Chinese are doing to DNS -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders
7.) AdBlock doesn't let you block out known bad sites or servers that are known to be maliciously scripted, hosts can and many reputable lists for this exist:
GOOD INFORMATION ON MALWARE BEHAVIOR LISTING BOTNET C&C SERVERS + MORE (AS WELL AS REMOVAL LISTS FOR HOSTS):
http://ddanchev.blogspot.com/
http://www.malware.com.br/lists.shtml
http://www.stopbadware.org
http://blog.fireeye.com/
http://mtc.sri.com/
http://news.netcraft.com
http://www.shadowserver.org/
REGULARLY UPDATED HOSTS FILES SITES (reputable/reliable sources):
http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org]
http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ [someonewhocares.org]
http://hostsfile.org/hosts.html [hostsfile.org]
http://hostsfile.mine.nu/downloads/ [hostsfile.mine.nu]
http://hosts-file.net/?s=Download
https://zeustracker.abuse.ch/monitor.php?filter=online
Spybot "Search & Destroy" IMMUNIZE feature (fortifies HOSTS files with KNOWN bad servers blocked)
8.) HOSTS files will allow you to get to sites you like, via hardcoding your favs into a HOSTS file, FAR faster than DNS servers can by FAR (by saving the roundtrip inquiry time to a DNS server & back to you).
9.) AdBlock & DNS servers are programs, and subject to bugs programs can get. Hosts files are merely a filter and not a progra
You can cut impersonating me now, it's not working... 2 times in this thread now (1st one here -> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1891254&cid=34405740 )?
Please (You MUST be a malware maker who exploits others & knows what a HOSTS file can do to secure people on nearly ALL levels perfectly vs. your illegal heinous machinations online).
Folks KNOW I posted this material & the P.S. below even makes it MORE solid w/ examples of problems (past & present) & DNS:
14 ADVANTAGES OF HOSTS FILES OVER DNS SERVERS &/or ADBLOCK:
1.) Adblock blocks ads in only 1 browser family (Disclaimer: Opera now has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF...).
2.) HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program).
3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF, Hosts files do.
4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 4-7 next below).
5.) Adblock doesn't allow you to hardcode in your favorite websites into it so you don't make DNS server calls and so you can avoid tracking by DNS request logs, hosts do (DNS servers are also being abused by the Chinese lately and by the Kaminsky flaw -> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/082908-kaminsky-flaw-prompts-dns-server.html for years now). Hosts protect against those problems via hardcodes of your fav sites (you should verify against the TLD that does nothing but cache IPAddress-to-domainname/hostname resolutions via PINGS &/or WHOIS though, regularly, so you have the correct IP & it's current)).
6.) HOSTS files protect you vs. DNS-poisoning &/or the Kaminsky flaw in DNS servers, and allow you to get to sites reliably vs. things like the Chinese are doing to DNS -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders
7.) AdBlock doesn't let you block out known bad sites or servers that are known to be maliciously scripted, hosts can and many reputable lists for this exist:
GOOD INFORMATION ON MALWARE BEHAVIOR LISTING BOTNET C&C SERVERS + MORE (AS WELL AS REMOVAL LISTS FOR HOSTS):
http://ddanchev.blogspot.com/
http://www.malware.com.br/lists.shtml
http://www.stopbadware.org
http://blog.fireeye.com/
http://mtc.sri.com/
http://news.netcraft.com
http://www.shadowserver.org/
REGULARLY UPDATED HOSTS FILES SITES (reputable/reliable sources):
http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org]
http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ [someonewhocares.org]
http://hostsfile.org/hosts.html [hostsfile.org]
http://hostsfile.mine.nu/downloads/ [hostsfile.mine.nu]
http://hosts-file.net/?s=Download
https://zeustracker.abuse.ch/monitor.php?filter=online
Spybot "Search & Destroy" IMMUNIZE feature (fortifies HOSTS files with KNOWN bad servers blocked)
8.) HOSTS files will allow you to get to sites you like, via hardcoding your favs into a HOSTS file, FAR faster than DNS servers can by FAR (by saving the roundtrip inquiry time to a DNS server & back to you).
9.) AdBlock & DNS servers are programs, and subject to bugs programs can get. Hosts files are merely a filter and not a program, thus not subject to bugs of the nature just discussed.
10.) Hosts files don't eat up CPU cycles like AdBlock does while it parses a webpages' content, nor as much as a DNS server does while it runs.
11.) HOSTS files are EASILY user controlled, obtained (for reliable ones -> http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm ) & edited too, via texteditors like Windows notepad.exe or Linux nano (etc.)
12.) You don't have the sourcecode to Adblock. With hosts you don't even need source to control it (edit, update, delete, i
The article seems to have no real details on the technical side -- does anyone know how this is supposed to work? In particular, how does it scale to billions of hosts? What stops somebody automatically registering all the names? Without central authority, how are disputes over where a name should point solved?
(Also, what happened to slashdot? It's been a couple of hours since the article was posted, and all the comments (reading at +2) are political -- does nobody else here care about the technical side of technology? :-( )
I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
As much as I'd love to see a truly decentralized internetwork (p2p DNS and routing) idealogically, such a notion cannot replace the Internet as we have it today. In order to get anywhere reliably, you have to trust someone. You cannot have trust without an accountable authority. It's possible that you can get a modicum of trust via trusting a server that the people you trust have trusted (that was a mouthful), but in the end it will aggregate to a select few authorities at the root of it all. And then we have the same or similar issues to now.
I honestly cannot see how a true p2p domain name system can work and still be usable by someone who "just wants to surf the 'net".
Perhaps all we really need is a 'democratic' system - a select few members of the root DNS (geographically and politically separated of course) and a lookup system that queries each and selects the majority response as the correct response. At the very least, the domain name system should not be solely in the hands of one government.
If someone is wrong, don't insult; Educate.
"Anyone can set up a DNS server and serve names, and anyone else pointing at that DNS server can resolve them. There has always been some competition to the mainstream DNS and I think this move will bring more." - by Greyfox (87712) on Wednesday December 01, @09:01AM (#34403468) Homepage
Some more notes on DNS servers & their problems, very recent + ongoing ones:
BIND vs. what the Chinese are doing to DNS lately? See here:
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders
---
SECUNIA HIT BY DNS REDIRECTION HACK THIS WEEK:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/secunia_back_from_dns_hack/
(Yes, even "security pros" are helpless vs. DNS problems, & they can only try to "set the DNS record straight" & then, they still have to wait for corrected DNS info. to propogate across all subordinate DNS servers too - lagtime in which folks DO get "abused" in mind you!)
---
DNS vs. the "Kaminsky DNS flaw", here (and even MORE problems in DNS than just that):
http://www.scmagazineus.com/new-bind-9-dns-flaw-is-worse-than-kaminskys/article/140872/
(Seems others are saying that some NEW "Bind9 flaw" is worse than the Kaminsky flaw ALONE, up there, mind you... probably corrected (hopefully), but it shows yet again, DNS hassles being exploited!)
---
Moxie Marlinspike's found others (0 hack) as well...
Nope... "layered security" truly IS the "way to go" - hacker/cracker types know it, & they do NOT want the rest of us knowing it too!...
---
SO, WHAT CAN A HOSTS FILE DO VS. THOSE PROBLEMS ABOVE? PROTECT YOU! Read on...
14 ADVANTAGES OF HOSTS FILES OVER DNS SERVERS &/or ADBLOCK:
1.) Adblock blocks ads in only 1 browser family (Disclaimer: Opera now has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF...).
2.) HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program).
3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF, Hosts files do.
4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 4-7 next below).
5.) Adblock doesn't allow you to hardcode in your favorite websites into it so you don't make DNS server calls and so you can avoid tracking by DNS request logs, hosts do (DNS servers are also being abused by the Chinese lately and by the Kaminsky flaw -> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/082908-kaminsky-flaw-prompts-dns-server.html for years now). Hosts protect against those problems via hardcodes of your fav sites (you should verify against the TLD that does nothing but cache IPAddress-to-domainname/hostname resolutions via PINGS &/or WHOIS though, regularly, so you have the correct IP & it's current)).
6.) HOSTS files protect you vs. DNS-poisoning &/or the Kaminsky flaw in DNS servers, and allow you to get to sites reliably vs. things like the Chinese are doing to DNS -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders
7.) AdBlock doesn't let you block out known bad sites or servers that are known to be maliciously scripted, hosts can and many reputable lists for this exist:
Of course it doesn't block email and malware from communicating -- it's never been intended to. On the other and, what are you doing with malware installed, and allowing your email to d/l content from third party servers without your explicit approval?
New non-ICANN domain names already exist on http://dashworlds.com New DASHCOM domain names are available free
I've always understood that the reason the DNS is hierarchical isn't that programmers just thought it would be great for no other reason than that they like trees. My understanding is it is the very foundation of breaking up the DNS into smaller chunks that can be stored (and resolved) on multiple servers. DNS is *already* distributed, sort of, in its design. The issue is that there are central root and tld servers.
So, if I want to check email, and my mail client needs to contact mail.myisp.net, it first asks the root servers for the .net server, it asks the .net server for the myisp.net server, then it asks the myisp.net server for mail.myisp.net - that way, all the higher level servers can just answers to a small 'chunk' of the total dns namespace.
One way or another, any DNS system is going to need to splitup the namespace *somehow*, so if it isn't a tree, then what's it gonna be?
My first question would be, how is my 'domain' secured in this system so it can't be easily hijacked? If it does get hijacked, how do I ever get control of it again? How do I know a domain I am visiting wasn't hijacked?
These are issues facing the 'official' DNS system too, but generally, with the official DNS system, because of a fairly centralized control regime, it's at least difficult, usually, to hijack a domain, because you have to convince one of the levels of other servers to delegate authority over that domain to your servers. With a distributed system, how do you ensure that all the nodes give the same answer to a query? What's to stop a node from just lying? How do you detect if it's lying (some sort of cryptographic system would probably be needed)?
With the 'official' DNS, if my domain is hijacked, there are legal processes I can follow to try to prove that the domain should be rightly mine, and to have control restored if it's hijacked. Will there be any either technical or legal remedy for having your domain 'jacked in the P2P-DNS?
IDONS:
http://lwn.net/Articles/417974/
It claims superiority to The Pirate Bay's version.
"hosts is a valid solution and can address a lot of issues;" - by thePowerOfGrayskull (905905) on Wednesday December 01, @12:46PM (#34406288) Homepage Journal
You realize HOSTS' files value: That's good! It's a solid supplement to DNS servers (external and even INTERNAL ones for AD) for security, & they're easily logon script "mass deployed" on LAN/WAN environs also.
---
"however, saying it's superior to adblock because of all the things adblock wasn't designed to do is like saying a car is better than a motorcycle because you don't need to wear a helmet. Of course it doesn't block email and malware from communicating -- it's never been intended to." - by thePowerOfGrayskull (905905) on Wednesday December 01, @12:46PM (#34406288) Homepage Journal
That's the "problem" though - I pointed out WHAT HOSTS CAN DO the same as Adblock alone, but also ADBLOCK'S DEFICIENCIES (especially when compared to AdBlock - 14-15 of them in that list in fact), which HOSTS overcome by adding what HOSTS files can do, vs. AdBlock (or DNS servers) alone.
I'm not really saying "don't use AdBlock" (in fact, I literally STATE THE OPPOSITE in my init. post here):
What I am saying is, SUPPLEMENT ADBLOCK &/or DNS Servers for layered security and speed gains!
(and I enumerate why (that goes for DNS problems too)).
I use AdBlock (opera's version, along with its URLFILTER.INI file, a custom .pac file, & also a custom cascading stylesheet, all in layered security "unison") PLUS OpenDNS or ScrubIT DNS Servers (GOOGLE DNS is yet another decent one)!
However, in an AD environs?
Well, w/ DNS servers assignments?? Don't use external ones... yes, you have to watch it in AD environs due to things like Exchange + FULL Outlook not working IF you use DNS that's NOT AD ready & from an external source outside your LAN/WAN (and you will use DNS & directory services NEED DNS... AD? Hey, it's based on LDAP, which is a toolset for x500 directory access, like ANY directory services are usually)).
---
"On the other and, what are you doing with malware installed, and allowing your email to d/l content from third party servers without your explicit approval?" - by thePowerOfGrayskull (905905) on Wednesday December 01, @12:46PM (#34406288) Homepage Journal
I don't have any malware installed, & I don't use HTML based email (text only, thus no scriptable exploits that way are possible here)!
E.G.-> I can recognize an infected system pretty fast & clean it also (literally 1000's of customers of mine have been cleared of them by myself, & I have YET to miss cleaning any type (inclusive of some rootkits too (bootsector originated))... the guide I wrote covers it in its "malware removal" portion in fact.
Plus, I secure myself this way (guide I wrote for Windows users I was actually PAID for & has gone WELL OVER 600,000++ views since 2008 (I stopped counting that in 2008 too, probably well over a million views by now - it's featured on 15 forums worldwide, & has been made a "sticky/pinned" thread, or "essential guide" &/or has been "5/5 star rated" many times also).
http://www.bing.com/search?q=%22HOW+TO+SECURE+Windows+2000%2FXP%22&go=&form=QBRE
(No malware here... I haven't been exploited in more than a decade & 1/2 if not more in fact, & because of what's in that guide (I wrote the 1st version of it in 1997 for NTCompatible.com in fact, as their "Article #1" & it's improved & adapted for NEW MS' Windows, as they released in fact (Mark II "Iron Man Armor Online" in the present version, as I think of it, lol!)
APK
P.S.=> To quote Tony Stark of IRON MAN fame (since I am using that analogy of sorts here now)?
"IT WORKS!"
The HOSTS file IS in my estimation, a crucial part of that guide too... the "Arc Reactor" portion (because I have ways of making it smaller & even MS' own senior mgt. in Foredecker (Windows Client Performance Division) agree I am correct on it here -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1467692&cid=30384918 ) ... apk
You are looking at this from the wrong point of view. It is not that SPAM kills good products. Instead SPAM kills products that were poorly designed and/or implemented.
Let's say SPAM didn't exist. Let us say that you create some new Killer App 4.0. You release it. Someone doesn't like you. They don't like your company, or they don't like someone using your product. They don't want to make a buck, they just want to grief. At this point, whatever flaws would have been exploited by a SPAM'er, is going to be exploited by this griefer.
SPAM IS GOOD. Our infrastructure and our original set of RFC's are BAD. They were built in too clean of a room. They worked initially in the original sterile environment, but they are failing to cope with the current non-sterile environment. All internet products need a much more healthy immune systems. And SPAM, if it's good for nothing, is good for building an Immune systems ( have you tasted it )?
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
Silly little troll showing his IGNORANCE by impersonating me, the great and wise APK.....anyway, I will show BEYOND a DOUBT why HOSTS files no longer make sense, and REFUTE the misinformed posts of the troll impersonating me several times in this thread.
"1.) Adblock blocks ads in only 1 browser family (Disclaimer: Opera now has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF...)." - by Anonymous Coward (22995) on Wednesday December 01, @12:20PM (#34405942)
FALSE - Chrome, FF, IE and Opera all have Adblock, and it probably is not to long until there is a centralized filterlist as a community effort
"HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program)." - by Anonymous Coward (22995) on Wednesday December 01, @12:20PM (#34405942)
THIS is not at all an ADVANTAGE, HOSTS file are lower level, but a higher level SOLUTION has the added ADVANTAGE of being used on any OS with a BSD stack, as well as those without.
"3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF, Hosts files do." - by Anonymous Coward (22995) on Wednesday December 01, @12:20PM (#34405942)
FALSE - It is TRUE that adblock extensions are browser addons, but then a HOSTS file will not prevent displaying ads in an email(although if read in a browser will), nor will it help from soneone clicking on a malicious link. When someone does click on a malicious link, it then gets handled by the browser...the email client is IRRELEVANT. To CLAIM HOSTS files have any sort of protection against MUA's is simply FALSE.
"4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 4-7 next below)." - by Anonymous Coward (22995) on Wednesday December 01, @12:20PM (#34405942)
Which is why we have REDUNDANT and BACKUP DNS entries, and caching. Is this REALLY the best you can do, TROLL? This is a NON-ISSUE.
"7.) AdBlock doesn't let you block out known bad sites or servers that are known to be maliciously scripted, hosts can and many reputable lists for this exist:" - by Anonymous Coward (22995) on Wednesday December 01, @12:20PM (#34405942)
FALSE - EVERY ad block extension for EVERY browser allows you to explicity define sites to block, what is MORE they allow wildcarding and REGULAR EXPRESSIONS, something HOSTS files do not.
"8.) HOSTS files will allow you to get to sites you like, via hardcoding your favs into a HOSTS file, FAR faster than DNS servers can by FAR (by saving the roundtrip inquiry time to a DNS server & back to you)." - by Anonymous Coward (22995) on Wednesday December 01, @12:20PM (#34405942)
FALSE - The speed difference is NEGLIGIBLE and NEGATED due to CACHING, of course if you have some AUTHORITATIVE and CREDIBLE tests that show otherwise I would like to SEE them.
"9.) AdBlock & DNS servers are programs, and subject to bugs programs can get. Hosts files are merely a filter and not a program, thus not subject to bugs of the nature just discussed." - by Anonymous Coward (22995) on Wednesday December 01, @12:20PM (#34405942)
Except that a HOSTS file needs to be parsed by a PROGRAM, which is just as subject to BUGS as a higher level PROGRAM. To say you should nto use a superior solution BECAUSE it MIGHT have BUGS...or not even that it MIGHT just that BUGS are possible is a poor argument at best.
"10.) Hosts files don't eat up CPU cycles like AdBlock does while it parses a webpages' content, nor as much as a DNS server does while it runs." - by Anonymous Coward (22995) o
"Silly little troll showing his IGNORANCE by impersonating me, the great and wise APK.....anyway, I will show BEYOND a DOUBT why HOSTS files no longer make sense, and REFUTE the misinformed posts of the troll impersonating me several times in this thread." - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @01:49PM (#34407514)
See my subject-line, & my refutations of your points below:
---
"FALSE - Chrome, FF, IE and Opera all have Adblock, and it probably is not to long until there is a centralized filterlist as a community effort" - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @01:49PM (#34407514)
Ok then, I'll use a 3 points HOSTS can do that AdBlock can't, right now:
1.) Can AdBlock control HTML email programs like Outlook &/or OutLook FULL (both WIDELY used), HOSTS can? Anwswer = NO! Adblock can't...
2.) Can AdBlock block out KNOWN BAD WEBSITES like HOSTS CAN? Answer = NO! Adblock, can't...
3.) Can AdBlock speed up access to your favorite sites by hardcodes of the IPAddress-to-Domain/HostName equation? Answer = NO! Adblock, can't...
(Need more? I can do them you know, easily!)
---
"THIS is not at all an ADVANTAGE, HOSTS file are lower level, but a higher level SOLUTION has the added ADVANTAGE of being used on any OS with a BSD stack, as well as those without." - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @01:49PM (#34407514)
First of all? I didn't say that: You're misquoting me (probably you during impersonating me): HOSTS are used on systems with a BSD based IP stack (I don't know about others, & I even used ADB to "pull/push" it to ANDROID this week on the system mount point after mounting it with READ + WRITE ACCESS)...
"FALSE - It is TRUE that adblock extensions are browser addons, but then a HOSTS file will not prevent displaying ads in an email(although if read in a browser will), nor will it help from soneone clicking on a malicious link. When someone does click on a malicious link, it then gets handled by the browser...the email client is IRRELEVANT. To CLAIM HOSTS files have any sort of protection against MUA's is simply FALSE." - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @01:49PM (#34407514)
HOSTS will prevent ANY PROGRAM THAT IS WEBBOUND, even in HTML mail with bad url's in them, because the HOSTS file operates BELOW usermode/ring 3/rpl 3 mode operation (apps you use) & is used by the kernel mode programs like the IP stack itself.
Try it yourself - I have pals & myself that get bogus bushwhack attempt emails, with URLs to known malicious sites in them in HTML mail... I can even CLICK ON THEM, & I won't get there... why? HOSTS files operating @ IP Stack level is why!
---
"Which is why we have REDUNDANT and BACKUP DNS entries, and caching. Is this REALLY the best you can do, TROLL? This is a NON-ISSUE." - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @01:49PM (#34407514)
LMAO - are you stupid? Once the Kaminsky flaw propogates a BAD dns record up to DNS servers (which if NOT DNSSEC & most aren't mind you), it takes the "1st answer" it gets, even IF it's a misdirecting one. SECUNIA.COM just got hit by it, & guess what else??
They had to set the DNS records straight & then the subordinate servers that call on it have "lag time" during updating cascading/propogating to said subordinate DNS servers.
SECUNIA HIT BY DNS REDIRECTION HACK THIS WEEK:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/secunia_back_from_dns_hack/
(Yes, even "security pros" are helpless vs. DNS problems, & they can only try to "set the DNS record straight" & then, they still have to wait for corrected DNS info. to propogate across all subordinate DNS servers too - lagtime in which folks DO get "abused" in mind yo
"Are you retarded" - by stonewallred (1465497) on Wednesday December 01, @02:59PM (#34408810)
Ad hominem attack the "Best you've Got"? Apparently so, look at your quoted reply!
QUESTION: Are you a MALWARE MAKER that doesn't want others to know about a valuable easy to obtain, edit, update & use extra layered security method like HOSTS files that even STOPS DNS errors (like redirect poisoning, which ADBLOCK CANNOT DO)?
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"or is your business selling host files?" - by stonewallred (1465497) on Wednesday December 01, @02:59PM (#34408810)
Secondly?? I don't "sell" anything... hosts files are FREE (see the mvps.org link I put up).
Show us where I was trying to sell one, ok, and please: LEARN TO READ!
(You're trying to put words in my mouth I never stated with that one...)
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"Maybe tech geeks know what host files are, but the average computer has no idea and no desire to know or utilize them?" - by stonewallred (1465497) on Wednesday December 01, @02:59PM (#34408810)
Untrue, there are ENTIRE FORUMS that do (including this one & others like mvps.org which both have many 1000's of users who know it)!
Forums like this are where folks know how to use custom HOSTS files which are free & regularly updated (and copying over an older outdated one, with a premade one from a reputable site like mvps.org? CAKE!).
Here is where I tell others about them is all, it's widely travelled here is why.
Who are you trying to fool here, and did you even READ my reply to you & others I posted here?
I cover all that & all else you mention here now, so, evidently you DID NOT READ my init. post & others subsequent to it!
(All you do it seems is call others names in ad hominem attacks (invalid in logical debate)).
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"If it doesn't take them to youtube, google or their favorite homepage, then it is not important to them." - by stonewallred (1465497) on Wednesday December 01, @02:59PM (#34408810)
You've made the mistake of "Speaking for Everyone" and you? You're certainly NOT everyone there is online... try tell that to mvps.org's forums folks, for example.
They have a VERY easy to understand document for HOSTS & what they can do for you, and how to use them, plus to obtain updated ones also.
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"So instead of preaching about how great they are, why not develop a FF plug-in that allows them to be used easily, reliably and unobtrusively?." - by stonewallred (1465497) on Wednesday December 01, @02:59PM (#34408810)
LOL, now I KNOW you didn't read my 1st post:
One of the 1st things I note is how AdBlock won't cover speeding you up via hardcodes into a HOSTS file of your fav. sites!
Another is how AdBlock cannot control anything other than the browser its made for (FF version, same with Opera version or Chrome) & even its email built in which it SHOULD work for, but not for ones like external to browser email programs (widely used ones that use HTML mail, where bushwhack bad links in SPAM are, such as Outlook Express OR full OUTLOOK).
APK
P.S.=> AdBlock is limited to the browser its coded for, but doesn't cover EVERY webbound program you have vs. bad sites... HOSTS files, can & DO, with ease (download a prebuilt one from say, mvps.org, & overwrite copy to yours you have IF it's out of date - simple)... apk
In my init. reply, you SKIMMED & missed that I advocate using BOTH AdBlock, DNS servers (good ones), AND HOSTS, because my list in favor of HOSTS shows HOSTS can do things, adblock alone just CANNOT... First of all!
Secondly?
I conceded your point but there are many things you seem to be "StRaNgELy" avoiding...
Things such as all the things AdBlock CANNOT DO that HOSTS can my init. posts' list has!
(Even to the point of showing HOSTS are covering you vs. the Chinese exploits of DNS servers this week via redirection -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/11/29/1755230/Chinese-DNS-Tampering-a-Real-Threat-To-Outsiders and SECUNIA exploited too (via the Kaminsky flaw in DNS) -> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/secunia_back_from_dns_hack/
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"I'm not talking about anonymous proxies" - by nschubach (922175) on Wednesday December 01, @01:21PM (#34406958) Journal
First of all, you didn't specify ANY specific type of proxy server...
I merely pointed out the downside of online anonymous proxies (they SLOW YOU DOWN, quite often hugely)!
Also, & proxies @ work? They STILL SLOW YOU DOWN, whether you know it or not... you're going thru yet another layer of complexity is why (ask your network folks about that, they won't tell you diff. - it's not "huge" but the slowdown? Still there!)
Besides, in certain circumstances (even "necessary evils" like local proxies) are still programs, with possible security issues in them (look @ DNS servers alone as an example thereof) & beyond that?
HECK - AGAIN: I even SAY to use AdBlock, alongside good DNS servers (like OpenDNS), & NoScript - for "layered security", & yes, they ALL WORK FINE IN COMBINATION!
HOWEVER: I DO POINT OUT A NUMBER OF THINGS (15) THAT ADBLOCK ALONE, or DNS SERVER USE ALONE CANNOT DO, that HOSTS can!
Care to dispute that?
After all - You're free to dispute each of my 15 points in favor of HOSTS files usage, & to disprove them...
(Good luck, you'll NEED it (I've had "fleets" of trolls trying that here for years, and I have yet to see them disprove every single point in my lists about HOSTS files)).
Thing is though, & I hope you're not offended?
I actually LIKE IT when folks do, because it only takes me a second to overcome their objections disproving them, or nulllifying them, easily.
APK
P.S.=> Of course, there is also Mr. Oliver Day's "A RETURN TO THE KILLFILE" article that points out HOSTS files and their benefits too:
A RETURN TO THE KILLFILE (hosts):
http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/491 [securityfocus.com]
Some "PERTINENT QUOTES/EXCERPTS" to back up my points with (for starters):
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"The host file on my day-to-day laptop is now over 16,000 lines long. Accessing the Internet -- particularly browsing the Web -- is actually faster now."
Speed, and security, is the gain... others like Mr. Day note it as well!
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"From what I have seen in my research, major efforts to share lists of unwanted hosts began gaining serious momentum earlier this decade. The most popular appear to have started as a means to block advertising and as a way to avoid being tracked by sites that use cookies to gather data on the user across Web properties. More recently, projects like Spybot Search and Destroy offer lists of known malicious servers to add a layer of defense against trojans and other forms of malware."
Per my points exactly, from my initial & subsequent posts here in this very exchange no less... & guess who was posting about HOSTS files a 14++ yrs. or more back & Mr. Day was reading & now using? Yours truly!
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"Shared host files could be beneficial for other groups as well. Human rights groups have sought after block resistant technologies for quite some time. The GoDaddy debacle with NMap creator Fyodor (corrected) showed a particularly vicious blockin
who would put medicine they bought from a spam email into their body? The same people who would put illegal drugs from a stranger on a street corner in their body.
I don't have any street corners in my body, so I guess that's not a concern.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
So he's Finnished being Norwegian and decided to Sweden the pot by standing in as the new Swedish Chef? I'd love to see that Muppets episode!
Bork Bork Bork!
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
"And dumbass, L2read. I am not a tech geek. I am however the most computer literate person in my extended family." - by stonewallred (1465497) on Wednesday December 01, @06:00PM (#34411536)
First, see subject-line, & secondly? Read:
This is HOW & WHY I burnt you on every "so-called point" you tried... take a hint: DO NOT TRY TO "SCHOOL" YOUR BETTERS THEN!
You'll lose, badly, as you did here...
(I've been at this field 27 yrs. total time, & 17 as a pro, & I have been multiply internationally published a dozen times & for programs that I've written that have been, for example, reviewed GREAT in highly esteemed publications like Windows IT Pro, whose ware & work went to MS Tech Ed 2x in a row on a contract I was paid to do for EEC Systems/SuperSpeed.com where my work took them to a FINALIST position in the hardest category: SQLServer Performance Enhancement!)
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"And if I don't know WTF a host file is and ain't interested in using them, then what makes you think anyone less technically inclined than me will be, regardless of how many times you post links, and other useless junk? Most folks think IE is the internet." - by stonewallred (1465497) on Wednesday December 01, @06:00PM (#34411536)
Talk about "the pot calling the kettle black": You're out telling others about "AdBlock"!
You're not really that intelligent, are you? I mean, you're telling ME not to help people with the SAME BASIC idea you're doing yourself - you were pimping adblock & WHEN I TOLD OTHERS ABOUT HOSTS, you started your shit!
(Get an IQ upgrade for yourself, if not only for OUR sake here on /. ... "m'kay"? You NEED one!)
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"So instead of spewing posts about how host files are the next greatest thing in the world and will even make your dick bigger, how about writing an add-on for FF that will easily install and link to a host file so non-geeks can have it installed by semi-computer literate folks?" - by stonewallred (1465497) on Wednesday December 01, @06:00PM (#34411536)
Sorry, I don't take advice from cretins/dolts like yourself that toss names as their "method of convincing others" first of all - secondly, my dick is plenty big enough, so "no thanks" (sounds like YOU are interested in dick though, lol)... & lastly?
AGAIN - BROWSER ADDONS ONLY RUN FOR THE BROWSER THEY ARE PROGRAMMED FOR (& I never "knocked" using them, but NOT BY THEMSELVES ONLY, but in layered security combination with DNS servers &/or say, AdBlock + NoScript - in fact, that's IN MY FIRST POST HERE!)
APK
P.S.=> Learn to read, you skimmed over that last point I made... apk
WINS did have scopes that could, in theory, extend that, but MS didn't do a great job implementing it.
Thinking about this, there are too many issues with hooking into the WINS resolver. Nope, it's going to have to be something new if it's done right.
Otherwise, it's just going to be a new DNS Root and that's just repeating history.
of anything.
Please stop quoting it as such.
Try using the product before saying such things.
The interface belongs in a hall of shame.
After several years the iTunes developers still haven't resolved core user complaints (removing duplicates / lost of connection between itunes entry and file).
Scream if you like, but Winamp still wins - because it works.
Try these fun things with iTunes:
Trial 1. Drag a folder with lots of music files in from your local drive into iTunes; then drag the folder in again.
Now: Try and figure out how you are going to fix this massive problem of duplicates. Delete them (one at a time!)? Start from scratch?
Trial 2: Drag a folder with lots of music files in from a local drive into iTunes; then drag a folder with lots of songs in from a network drive to iTunes; disconnect the network drive; close then open itunes and play music from the remote folder. Then: Connect the remote share.
Now: All of your remotely stored files are disconnected. What will you do?
How do you know which files won't work? By playing them?
How will you fix this?
You have local (working) files, and disconnected remote files all mixed up.
and, because you have been such a good audience: we will add a #3
Trial 3: Drag in a bunch of files that don't resolve properly via online lookup; and a bunch of files with long file names into a windows instance of iTunes.
You will find that in the first case all of your files are renamed (and you are now asking "wtf? if you can't find it online WHY is it renamed to Unknown?!?!?!?) ; and in the second case all of your files are truncated (due to the file name length limits and due to itunes putting the file 50 chars deep into the file system).
So. Lets see. Now you have screwed file name - as they didn't exist online; and screwed file names.
What are you going to do? .. how many files?
Back out the name changes. Oh no, there's no magic button for that.
Manually restore the lost file name? For
Manually fix the long file names?
So, now, learning the hard way (and I HOPE you didn't use the option to consolidate the location of the files on add) you will probably create a local folder from the root of a local drive, clear everything from itunes, and import to that location.
and hope it doesn't screw everything up because back out is not an option.
Do Not Ever Use Itunes As An Example Of What Is Good
...the internet was invented and implemented by the United States. It's OURS. If the powers that be decide "It's my bat and my ball, and I don't wanna play anymore" that's their choice. They own the bat and the ball. Don't like it, build your own and don't invite the US to play. OHHHH, but wait, that's what you're trying to do, but piggy back traffic on the network they control.
Kids, just wait till IP6...with bit-lengths that long, it'll be a lot easier to hide traffic, and by the time the powers that be get their heads out of their asses, something bigger and better will have come along.
"Oh no, the sky is falling, the sky is falling....some poor kid in Africa can't download the latest "The Office" torrent...." What you're all forgetting is that the internet is what it is today because of corporate backing and investment. I don't like it any more than you do, but you don't go to China and demand they speak English...
There are 2 groups of people you can make fun of on the Internet without fear of attack. The illiterate, and the Amish.
See subject line above, and is that the best you've got? Some weak attempt at acting the "sidewalk psychoanalyst" on your part?? Seems so.
"Dude, start taking your meds again. You're losing it." - by The End Of Days (1243248) on Wednesday December 01, @11:28PM (#34413838)
Got your PHD in psychiatry since you're trying to dispense &/or proscribe meds there, The End of Days? No?? Didn't think so.
(I wonder who's "losing it" here: Myself, staying on the topic @ hand & disproving all comers' points with valid technical information, OR, you, trying to play "psychoanalyst" with no degree or years to decades of licensed professional practice under your belt?)
APK
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Netsukuku#A_Netsukuku_Domain_Name_Architecture