Slashdot Mirror


Video Shows Why Recharging Kills Batteries

sciencehabit writes with this except from Science: "You may not give a lot of thought to what happens inside the battery of your laptop or cell phone, but to judge from this video, it's not a dull place. The battery in question is a miniature rechargeable lithium-ion device, and the clip shows what happens when it is charged. As lithium ions flow from the positively charged cathode into the 200-nanometre diameter wires of tin oxide that make up the negatively charged anode, the nanowires writhe and bulge, causing them to expand up to 2.5 fold. The wires also change structure from a neatly ordered crystal to a disordered glassy material. These distortions may explain why such batteries ultimately wear down. Knowing more about the process may help researchers develop longer lasting, and perhaps much smaller, batteries in the future."

26 of 111 comments (clear)

  1. You got all that from THAT video? by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I keep watching it over and over again, in its 17 second glory... and I honestly wish I could believe you.

    No, I'm almost positive (no pun intended) that this is actually a Rorschach inkblot VIDEO. You see whatever your subconscious is thinking about. Edwin Cartlidge is obviously suffering from the stress of a bad phone lithium ion battery - and when he stumbled across this video thats what he percieved is happening.

    For me, I think this is the opening bit to a Frank Miller or James Bond Flick - I can almost hear the rock/Jazz music chime in.

    What about you guys? What do YOU see?

    1. Re:You got all that from THAT video? by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 4, Funny

      It says you've seen too much of David Lynch's films, which is to say, more than 10 minutes.

    2. Re:You got all that from THAT video? by thedonger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is also in TFS, but after watching the video it may just as well have said, "watch this worm."

      --
      Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
    3. Re:You got all that from THAT video? by cababunga · · Score: 2

      Rorschach? Isn't he the guy who drew all those pictures of dead hookers?

      Ah, I see why you are posting anonymously.

  2. For my fellow noscript and requestpolicy users... by TheCarp · · Score: 4, Informative

    The sight has a boatload of requests going all over the place... the video is hosted on "brightcove"

    --
    "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
  3. What we don't know why or how? by Twinbee · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I find it pretty amazing that we don't really still understand why these things wear out. It's a bit more forgivable for something like the human brain which is much more complicated, and where we can't easily poke around for obvious reasons.

    But batteries?

    I'm guessing our tools to get a peak of the microscopic realm must still be in their early stages technogically.

    --
    Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
    1. Re:What we don't know why or how? by jeffmeden · · Score: 4, Interesting

      We do know why, and it's simple; parts of the insides of the battery end up in different places over time. The chemical reactions that take place during charging and discharging don't happen with perfect symmetry in forward and reverse, therefore each cycle will leave a little less reactive material than before. Making a battery with such perfect symmetry might be theoretically possible but it's not been achieved with any cost-beneficial success.

      The bottom line is that batteries, like many other things, are only gradually improved since the process of production that establishes their characteristics can only be gradually improved. The lithium-ion system was a LONG time coming from the days of lead and nickel, but nevertheless it's just another stop on the road to better things.

    2. Re:What we don't know why or how? by Twinbee · · Score: 3, Informative

      The CRT is a mature technology too. Doesn't mean it's ideal, or nearly ideal. Anyway, see:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_electron_microscopy#Limitations

      Yes a lot of the problem is holes in our knowledge of the presumably complicated battery physics, but I bet we'd have a lot more insight if these things could be analyzed and seen in realtime without any of the tedious preparation and other obstacles. Ideally, we'd even have the battery running as normal the whole time, though that may be almost impossible.

      --
      Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
    3. Re:What we don't know why or how? by koolguy442 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      TEM Comments
      This experiment was actually quite a bit harder to carry out than you think. (I imagine, as I wasn't involved in this study but do similar work.) Doing these experiments is like traveling to the moon in that the principles are relatively simple, but it's the details that are hard. While operation of the TEM is relatively easy, preparation of samples is extremely tedious even when the sample is relatively robust and isotropic and it doesn't matter where you need to look on the sample. Constructing a TEM specimen with the intention of looking at a tiny little feature of some larger piece of material is extremely difficult, taking hours or days, if even possible. It's even more difficult to prepare a specimen and have the right equipment set up to control and observe dynamic processes, such as lithium discharge from a single nanofiber. And viewing dynamics in a complicated system, like a battery, which contains at a very minimum three active components, anode, cathode, and electrolyte, is another order of magnitude harder. Plus you have to find a way to make the thing less than 20 nanometers thick and get it into a microscope at high vacuum without breaking or contaminating it, which is nontrivial. There's also the cost of the equipment, which is between $500,000 and $10 million for the microscope itself and another couple hundred thousand dollars for the specialized probes required to do this experiment. I do this for a living myself, as do many people across the world who are either pursuing or already have PhDs in microscopy and analysis, and if it were easy, it'd've already been done and we'd be out of the job.

      Battery comments
      We understand pretty much exactly why batteries wear out. Though the anodes in "real" batteries are usually some form of graphite, which expands less than 10% versus the SnOx in the video (~250%), there is still jostling of all the little powders that form the battery upon charging and discharging that eventually lead to the individual particles separating from the electrodes as a whole and essentially becoming dead micro-paperweights within the battery cell. It's just very hard to image them dynamically in a realistic operation because air and water vapor tend to destroy the materials nearly instantly.

    4. Re:What we don't know why or how? by amRadioHed · · Score: 2

      Maybe there's no loss of capacity, but if you're only allowed to use 30% of that capacity isn't that just as bad?

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
  4. It's an engineering trade-off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    You can have a battery which has almost infinite charge-discharge cycles. (iron-nickel) It will be very large and heavy for the energy it stores and also has quite a large self-discharge.

    If you want a small light battery that stores a large amount of energy, something has to give. In this case battery life suffers. You can make batteries that last a lot longer, they will just be big.

    1. Re:It's an engineering trade-off by jeff4747 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Because no one has found a material for batteries without trade-offs. All currently known chemistries maximize at best two of weight, power density and cell life.

      When someone finds a material that maximizes all 3, then we get that whole 'world-changing-invention' situation.

  5. Re:Annealing, anyone? by Jeffrey+Baker · · Score: 2

    Sure, they'll just need to develop the rest of the battery so it can survive temperatures above 300C for extended periods.

  6. Direct link by qwertyatwork · · Score: 5, Informative
  7. Re:Positive and negative? by cdrudge · · Score: 4, Informative

    It depends on if the battery is charging or discharging as to if the anode or cathode is the positive or negative terminal. Read the top of the wiki page for cathod or anode for more info.

  8. Making Sausage ... by ryan.onsrc · · Score: 2

    Yeah, all I can say is it looks ... kinda nasty.

    I'm just glad I don't actually *see* this shit happening (full-blown magnification and all) every time I charge stuff up at my bedside.

  9. Re:Can't wait for the same on supercaps by Bucky24 · · Score: 2

    Sure, then someone would finally come up with a working fusion reactor and wham! Inflation makes all your "energy money" useless.

    --
    All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
  10. Re:Can't wait for the same on supercaps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wouldn't it be just the same system we use now, except backed by electrons (instead of fiat, or metals)?

    I can't see our physical money tokens being replaced by batteries - not unless either the storage density goes up a few orders of magnitude or power prices do, and that's not counting the price of the battery itself. Power is about 10 cents per kilowatt hour. My laptop battery is, what, 60 watt hours? Even if it was 600 watt hours in the same volume and weight, that's worth less than ten cents.

  11. Iron-Nickel Innuendo by jdev · · Score: 4, Funny

    Large, heavy and a lot of self-discharge? Are we talking about batteries still or Slashdot users?

  12. Re:High school chem? by reg106 · · Score: 2

    From the abstract of the associated article, the contribution is realtime visualization of the growth of the nanowire during charging. It's hard to get this sort of setup into a transmission electron microscope. If your institution has access, the full article can be obtained by following the link from the abstract. I can't imagine why the editor posted this without an appropriate link to the article. The video is otherwise meaningless.

  13. Re:Can't wait for the same on supercaps by wierd_w · · Score: 2

    A super capacitor is basically a highly convoluted labarynth of activated carbon, submerged in an electrolyte solution.

    It works by radically increasing the surface area of the interface layer, where the electrical charge potential gets stored. More surface area==More theoretical maximum charge.

    An electron micrograph of the kind of activated carbon in question is really all you need to see to understand just how much surface area you are talking here by using the activated carbon instead of the more traditional interfaces used in normal electrolytic capacitors.

  14. Re:Why can't they put a simple FET in there by mysidia · · Score: 2

    I keep wondering about this. Why do laptops not come with a switch to cut off the charge when the battery is, say, 99% full? Is it purposely so that the battery will die faster?

    Lithium ION battery life is maximized, when kept fully charged at all time; the best possible lifetime is achieved if it's never significantly discharged, so adding a switch would be detrimental. Maintaining the battery fully charged at the float voltage while plugged in increases life of the battery.

    The wiring scheme in a laptop, where the computer is always powered by the battery, also has the benefit, that should power unexpectedly go out, power to the computer power will be maintained, as if maintained by an Online UPS.

    This means data will not be lost immediately by a a power outage or surge, and the computer will be protected. The protection by the combination of this design and the external power supply with regulated DC output is a bit better than that of a consumer-level (standby) UPS design you would find used for desktop computers. When combined with a surge protector, the safety of a laptop against power issues is top notch, and much better than a standard desktop's power protection. The computer is less likely to get fried if there is a surge.

    Compared to the expense of the computer itself, the battery is an inexpensive replaceable component.

  15. Re:Can't wait for the same on supercaps by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A market based on real energy would be immune to inflation.

    Why? Because it can't be created or destroyed?

    You fail to see the difference between energy and useful energy. The supply of the latter certainly went up when the water wheel & steam engine were invented. If your currency was backed by energy it would crash just like one backed by gold would if you suddenly stole tons of it from a South American kingdom that you'd just conquered.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  16. Re:Can't wait for the same on supercaps by vegiVamp · · Score: 2

    Cue Roddenberry's money-free society.

    --
    What a depressingly stupid machine.
  17. Re:For my fellow noscript and requestpolicy users. by vegiVamp · · Score: 2

    So does the site, from what I've seen.

    --
    What a depressingly stupid machine.
  18. Re:Ignore this post by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

    Slashdot 2.0 no longer requires confirmation for moderation (and has no undo feature). You'd know this, if you didn't spend all of your time trolling.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News