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Stuxnet Still Out of Control At Iran Nuclear Sites

Velcroman1 writes "Iran's nuclear program is still in chaos despite its leaders' adamant claim that they have contained the computer worm that attacked their facilities, cybersecurity experts in the US and Europe say. Last week President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, after months of denials, admitted that the worm had penetrated Iran's nuclear sites, but he said it was detected and controlled. The second part of that claim, experts say, doesn't ring true. Owners of several security sites have discovered huge bumps in traffic from Iran, as the country tries to deal with Stuxnet. 'Our traffic from Iran has really spiked,' said a corporate officer who asked that neither he nor his company be named. 'Iran now represents 14.9 percent of total traffic, surpassing the United States with a total of 12.1 percent.'"

22 of 361 comments (clear)

  1. Don't worry Iran... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...patch Tuesday is coming. ;)

  2. This Is Real Hacktivism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Unlike those kids at Anonymous, the perpetrators of stuxnet are showing who are the real hacktivists.

    Targeted precise strike on Iran's nuclear capabilities, this is a bigger win for freedom and security in the free world and anything wikileaks or their supporters could dream of doing.

    I commend these hackers for slowing down the evil Iranian government's nuclear ambitions.

    1. Re:This Is Real Hacktivism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      These weren't 'hacktivists'. These were government employed/contracted hackers.

    2. Re:This Is Real Hacktivism by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your glee might be tempered a bit when this thing gets propagated to Europe, North America, and the rest of the world.

      It seems just as likely that the guys running Turbines for your local power company are no better equipped to handle this than Iran. In Iran, they have unlimited budget and first call upon the best brains in the country.

      Your local power company? Not so much.

      Viruses and worms seem unlikely to honor boundaries forever. At least a surprise bombing run on a reactor in Iran is unlikely to hit Con-Edison in NY.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    3. Re:This Is Real Hacktivism by icebike · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No, enrichment machines to not require precise speed.
      You made that up. Post a link or retract it.

      All it requires is high speed for a sustained periods. Precision is not a criteria. It doesn't matter whether it is 2000 rpm for 5 days or 2100 rpm for 5 days and 18 hours. There are no precision requirements for centrifuges. Its a trade off between the number of Gs you can induce over a period of time. There is no special precision requirement.

      Its not like a paper machine where if one of the drying drums goes .002 rpms faster than the rest the web of wet paper breaks and the machine is useless.

      Centrifuges are big machines, and you have to spin them up carefully using a stepped speed profile while getting up to speed or coming to a stop.

      The worm simply radically alters the speed in unpredictable ways, spinning them up, then dropping to very low speeds, very quickly the jacking them up again. Doing this very fast breaks the machines. The worm's job is to break the machines.

      The worm is not trying to alter the product. Its trying to break the machines. Do some reading on this subject, PLEASE.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    4. Re:This Is Real Hacktivism by quokkaZ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The whole piece is based on a Fox News article. That by definition makes it unreliable. Quoting anonymous "security experts" is worthless and just citing the number of users signing on to Stuxnet security sites is hardly any better. I don't know if the Iranians have this thing under control or not and in all likelihood neither does Fox News.

      While you luxuriate in your little cocoon of ideologically induced ignorance, others might like to consider some of the facts:

      1. Iran as a signatory to the NPT has a right to run nuclear power plants. Even Hilary Clinton doesn't object to the Bashehr facility.

      2. Bushehr facility is a Russian VVER pressurized water reactor. Russia is supplying the fuel and taking away the spent fuel. PWRs are very unsuited to producing weapons grade material. They must be shutdown for refueling. To produce PU239 uncontaminated with significant PU240, which is for all practical purposes inseparable from PU239, you need a short fuel cycle. The frequent lengthly shutdowns makes this an infeasible proposition. PU239 contaminated with significant amounts of PU240 is just not much use for weapons - it would fry the bomb makers with significant risk of premature detonation.

      3. Iran certainly has an uranium enrichment program and this would give them a "break out capability" but whether Iran is actually producing or about to produce nuclear weapons is another matter entirely and not supported by any substantive evidence.

      4. Whether Iran's nuclear program is "evil" is at most a matter of opinion. However, what would be construed as evil by most thinking people is the installation of the Shah by the CIA at the behest of British oil interests with the support of the British government. Rather unsurprisingly, nations tend to know their own history and mostly do believe in their right to self determination. Viewed against this historical backdrop, the most likely factor in triggering an Iranian weapons program would be a continuing and ramped up aggressive posture by the United States.

    5. Re:This Is Real Hacktivism by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Clearly? How do you know it wasn't Saudi warfare? They've got the money, plenty of smart people (especially in reverse engineering, which is useful in spec'ing from a snatched or bought sample centrifuge), and are Iran's primary foe in the world. They've been trying to get the US to bomb Iran for years, and are the primary target of an Iranian nuke programme.

      How do you know it wasn't Russian marketing? The more Iran wastes uranium, the more Iran needs Russia. The longer it takes to get a fuel stockpile, the longer Iran needs Russia. Plus Russia isn't entirely evil, and is itself an old and longstanding enemy of Iran in more ways than it is an ally, and could just be defending itself from Iran's nuke programme. Likewise China.

      Those are three very plausible sources of Stuxnet. And they're all increasingly Eastern, including the ultimate Eastern of all - not Western.

      Iran is a very dangerous and isolated state. It's got lots of enemies with the means and motive to unleash Stuxnet. The question is which had the opportunity, which I expect we will never know, as Iran's windows of vulnerability in this respect are some of the most closely guarded secrets ever.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    6. Re:This Is Real Hacktivism by AB3A · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Your glee might be tempered a bit when this thing gets propagated to Europe, North America, and the rest of the world.

      "It seems just as likely that the guys running Turbines for your local power company are no better equipped to handle this than Iran. In Iran, they have unlimited budget and first call upon the best brains in the country."

      It already has. It doesn't matter.

      Stuxnet was VERY selective. It targeted only the S7 315 and 417 Programmable Logic Controllers (PLC). It looked for specific code blocks and data structures on those devices. You need to know that PLC applications code is usually custom written. It looked at the I/O networks and tried to find at least 33 instances of one of two models of a high speed motor drive. These are not ordinary Variable Frequency Drives. Had they come from the US, they'd be subject to export restrictions. The ones in use came from Finland and were also constructed locally in Iran.

      Speaking as a control systems engineer, I don't know of any other massively parallel processes that involve many dozens (hundreds?) of high speed drives like this --other than Uranium enrichment. That's why the risk to other plants, including the Bushir nuclear reactor, are relatively small. The malware will install itself in the development workstations but it won't do much.

      This is a good thing because had the malware been less selective, it would have done pretty much what you suggest. Most of you probably have little idea as to the extent and ubiquity of these PLC devices. The S7 PLC line is extremely popular and you'll find one in nearly half of all industrial settings around the world. If there were a malware that blindly attacked these devices, the world economy as we know it would take a massive change for the worse.

      THAT is why nobody has done a broad based attack against PLC gear before. It will blow back on them. Once you realize what a PLC is and how widely it is used, you will also realize that an attack against this platform is the equivalent of a nuclear attack in the software world. In the case of a PC you only lose data. Most data can be restored. In this case, you lose an industrial process and it may be significantly damaged. An attack will almost certainly blow back on you and your neighbors. It will make the economic malaise of the present look tame by comparison.

      --
      Nearly fifty percent of all graduates come from the bottom half of the class!
  3. The difference engineering makes by Rich0 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I think this attack just shows the difference that good engineering can make. Most worms out there are relatively unsophisticated, or are developed by people with limited means to pull off quick scams.

    Stuxnet shows what a truly determined adversary can do. One who knows your internal processes. One who understands your industry-specific software - the stuff nobody outside the industry ever touches. One who has a large team of talented programmers, carefully designing and building the attack. One who has access to government resources - the ability to tap communications lines, inject traffic, etc. One who is funded strategically - they don't want to hold your business for ransom for $1M, they want your $100B company to collapse so that one they favor can take over, or whatever.

    The software out there that runs on intranets around the world is some of the most insecure stuff you'll ever see. It rarely gets subjected to serious attack, and the vulnerabilities aren't evident to the average corporate IT guy who is just doing basic due-diligence. Your average PHB doesn't want to pay for testing that will actually uncover serious flaws - they want the system to look good to their customers and have the right bells and whistles - and pricetag.

    We'll see more of these attacks in the future - count on it...

    1. Re:The difference engineering makes by timeOday · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "Personally I think there is probably a "team" of 1-3 people sniggering to and congratulating themselves. "

      No, I don't think this is the kid sitting at home ala "War Games," and here is why (from the article):

      And Iran's anti-worm effort may have had another setback. In Tehran, men on motorcycles attacked two leading nuclear scientists on their way to work. Using magnetic bombs, the motorcyclists pulled alongside their cars and attached the devices.
      One scientist was wounded and the other killed. Confirmed reports say that the murdered scientist was in charge of dealing with the Stuxnet virus at the nuclear plants.

      Wow, you know they're serious when the cyberattack is coordinated with targeted assassinations.

    2. Re:The difference engineering makes by Rich0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Symantec speculates a team size around 5-10 not including QA (whatever the heck that means).

      Uh, good thing that programmers don't need QA or managers, and so on.

      And yes, QA matters for an operation like this. You're probably having spies plant the bug, and they could get killed in the process. You don't risk spies on code that isn't tested.

      Likewise, a fizzled attempt will likely trigger countermeasures making a future attack more difficult.

      QA means getting it right the first time. That probably means creating a simulated environment and testing the software out in this environment. Sure, you don't need actual centrifuges and turbines, but you probably need software that emulates the feedback such machines would return to their controllers. I'm sure they didn't factor that into their "5-10" count.

      I've worked on some IT projects where quality was serious business, and you can easily spend as much on testing as you spend on development. For a typical military-style coding effort factor in a WHOLE lot more.

  4. Iran... by pilgrim23 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Ahmadinejad's speech needs to be heard from the perspective of knowing something of Persian culture. We tend to think we understand people by what they say and in this case and, frankly in most cases we do not when Iranians speak. For example: If someone dies, it is considered not polite to just say "Shogi is dead". You break it gradually. So on the first inquiry, "Shogi is feeling unwell" is the reply, then, "Shogi took a turn for the worse" , then "Shogi has passed". Also, it is considered dishonorable for a man to admit ignorance. This makes it very hard to teach new ideas in Iran. Speak to a Persian and you are met with "Yes Yes, this I know, next thing please" The Persian culture is actually a very beautiful thing full of warm people, but they are NOT American People. They are a seperate culture. when Ahmadinejad announces ____ fill blank. we believe him, Persians think "there goes Dinner Jacket again.."

    --
    - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
    1. Re: Iran... by Threni · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > Also, it is considered dishonorable for a man to admit ignorance.

      So how do you explain that fucking bearded cunt in a suit saying stuff like `the holocaust didn't happen` and `we have no homosexuals in Iran`?

    2. Re: Iran... by pilgrim23 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I do not, I do as many Persians do and ignore him. Most there believe they have no voice anyway (see last election).

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
    3. Re: Iran... by Jeremi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So how do you explain that fucking bearded cunt in a suit saying stuff like `the holocaust didn't happen` and `we have no homosexuals in Iran`?

      He's saying things his constituents want to hear, just like other fucking cunts say things like "we don't torture" or "the US government does not spy on American citizens without a warrant". In both cases it's not ignorance, it's deliberate deception.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    4. Re: Iran... by Frogbert · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Another example:
      People also get confused with chants like "Death to America" which isn't as extreme as it sounds once translated. For example a Persian stuck in heavy traffic is often heard to say "Death to Traffic".

    5. Re: Iran... by lewko · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Scroll up, douchebag and realize that there are people in Islamist states who have been killed for writing a single article. There are people in North Korea who disappear for speaking badly about the Government.

      All the people marching in the streets this week about Julian Assange... Where were they when it was Iranian, North Korean or Chinese dissidents? Nowhere.

      These people don't truly care about freedom at all. If anything, their reflexive anti-American views are the exact opposite. People serving jail time for opposing their government must look at Julian Assange like a spoilt little brat.

      --
      Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
  5. Re:The real question by wampus · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you read about how this thing works, the real payload is a rootkit for a motor drive plc built by an Iranian manufacturer and spinning in the range needed to enrich uranium. It was also targetted at the desktop software designed to program said motor drive, which is windows. If they were running Linux, I'm sure there are a few zero day sploits out there suitible for hiding a rootkit dropper. The people that made this thing had time, information, legitimate driver signing certificates, and resources. I doubt there are many platforms that can deal with such a determined attacker.

  6. Spengler saw this last year by Simonetta · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The columnist who writes for Asia Times On-line (www.atimes.com) under the name Spengler foresaw this situation last year. He noted that 95+% off the software that was being used in Iran was 'pirate-ware' from the West. He noted that there was an Iranian government-run file download site that held hundreds of popular Western software packages along with their kraks, passwords, and keygens. He predicted that this would allow viruses to run amok throughout Iran at some point in the future.

        He also quotes a BBC reporter who states that almost nobody except government officials and their goon squads (and old ladies, of course) still believes in fundamental Islam in Iran. She (the BBC reporter) says that only about 2% of the population regularly go to Friday services at the mosques in Iran. And over 5% of Iranians are addicted to cheap Afghanistan heroin, the highest addiction rate in the world. Unemployment among the young is in reality over 50%. She says that Iran currently resembles the Soviet Union in the late 1980's; it's a country that will just fall apart in the next ten years if the rest of the world just leaves them alone and lets it happen.

        At the time of the revolution in 1978, Iran's population was about 27 million (I remember the number quoted as 50 million at the time) and now it is over 70 million: a direct result of Khomeini's exortation for young people to -'get a-fuckin'- (in a manner of speaking) and make lots of babies. When Khomeini died that policy died also, and Iran launched a massive birth-control program. Now, the children of the revolution are having almost no babies and the birth-rate in Iran is 1.6 children per couple; one of the lowest in the world. But their remains this huge bulge in the population demographic there; all the people born in the 1980's.

        They call themselves 'the burnt generation'.

        If any of this is true then we shouldn't worry too much about Iran. We should never actually believe anything that they say. And we should, on an individual-to-individual basis, offer whatever assistance that we can. Nevertheless, I would recommend NOT offering any detailed technical assistance to people in Iran on any specific technological project over the web until the Iranian government stops all this 'Death To America' nonsense as offical government policy.

        Thank you.

  7. Nucular, really? by olden · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So Stuxnet chatter is still observed around the planet, including in Iran and the US. Duh.

    Now how exactly does this "expert" come to the conclusion that, somehow, activity from the US etc must be from infected home PCs, yet the same from Iran must be from some seekret uranium enrichment plant, which typically wound not be connected to the internet?

    Oh, my bad, forgot, this comes from ScareTV... Never mind.

  8. Re:Iran Saving The Middle East From Israeli Terror by nyctopterus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Angry people... like you?

  9. Re:Virus and Iran again in front page? by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hey, this is a serious "nerds at war" story. Slashdot would be remiss to not cover what might be greatest exploit of weapons grade professional hacking in world history. How long before Slashdot "friends" find themselves on opposite sides of an actual war where key infrastructure is literally exploding? Because that's exactly what those worm coders did: Blow up uranium centrifuges in militarized underground bunkers. This really is the start of a new era in the history of nerddom, and if anything, it should be getting more attention from nerds. Maybe some of the authors of that worm even have user accounts here.