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LHC Prepares Marathon Higgs Hunt

gbrumfiel writes "Physicists at the Large Hadron Collider are preparing to run the collider until the end of 2012 in the hopes of finding the Higgs particle, part of the mechanism that endows other particles with mass. The machine was originally supposed to stop in 2011 for a year long upgrade, but scientists now think they can find the Higgs if they run for longer. 'If we stop the machine with 3,000 people apiece in the experiments waiting for data, there is no way we could get home at night without having slashed tyres on our cars,' says Sergio Bertolucci, CERN's director for research and computing."

10 of 101 comments (clear)

  1. They're just taunting the 2012ers by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's so mean.

    1. Re:They're just taunting the 2012ers by Lashat · · Score: 5, Funny

      If they announce that they are stopping the machine on December 21, 2012, I'm on the next flight off this rock.

      --
      For every benefit you receive a tax is levied. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
  2. "3,000 people apiece in the experiments" by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Funny

    "If we stop the machine with 3,000 people apiece in the experiments"

    Woah woah woah, I think someone got confused about what they're meant to be colliding here. I don't think smashing grad students is the answer.

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    1. Re:"3,000 people apiece in the experiments" by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't know. As a grad student myself, it doesn't sound much different than what I'm going through now, and a lot less painful.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    2. Re:"3,000 people apiece in the experiments" by AdmiralXyz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "4, Insightful" instead of "Funny", eh? Must be a lot of grad students with mod points today.

      --
      Dislike the Electoral College? Lobby your state to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
  3. After 2012 by doublee3 · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Physicists at the Large Hadron Collider are preparing to run the collider until the end of 2012" Thanks captain obvious. I'm not a moron, I know they won't be running it AFTER the world ends.

  4. Re:What if it doesn't exist? by grimJester · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A few years, maybe 3-5, should be enough to rule out the Higgs over the entire range of masses it could have. From what I gather, since the percentages of some processes no longer add up to 100 at LHC energies, something has to be there. It's theoretically possible this something could be heavy enough and hard enough to see that the LHC wouldn't find it, but no actual models predict anything that would be invisible at the LHC.

  5. Re:What if it doesn't exist? by Maritz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm sure some physicists will be actually quite disappointed by finding the Higgs. Although it seems to be required in order for the standard model to be a success, it would actually be quite exciting if it isn't found as it means a whole different paradigm for mass is at work in the real universe. I believe for example I've seen Brian Cox say that he would be more excited by a lack of a Higgs than by finding it, although the politicians who fund these things might not be too happy I suppose.

    The main reason that there is a broad consensus that the Higgs exists is simply that nobody seems able to think of a simpler mechanism through which mass might work.

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  6. Gee, why cooperate when you can be redundant? by Rich0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article stated that a big driver for continuing the search at current energies is that Fermilab is right on their heels and might find the Higgs first if they take a break for a year.

    As I see it, the Higgs could fit into one of two energy ranges:

    1. A range that the limited LHC and Fermilab can both probe now, with the LHC having some advantage.
    2. A range that only the full LHC can reach.

    If it falls into the latter, then nobody is discovering the Higgs for a few years until they get the LHC in gear. If it falls into #1, does it REALLY matter that much who finds it first?

    If what we care about is the accumulation of knowledge then we should cooperate and not compete here. Retask the LHC for higher energies, and have Fermilab continue to explore the lower-energy space. This way we find the Higgs more quickly as we have two non-redundant operations working on the problem, rather than having one be completely redundant.

    Also, who knows what other interesting physics we'll find at the higher LHC design energies, that we're just pushing off for years sticking where we are at now?

    Can't the lead authors on the competing 1000-author papers maybe agree to pool their efforts, and settle for first and last on a 2000-author paper instead? :) Then we poor taxpayers footing the bill can at least feel like we're all getting SOMETHING for our money...

    1. Re:Gee, why cooperate when you can be redundant? by grimJester · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As I see it, the Higgs could fit into one of two energy ranges:

      1. A range that the limited LHC and Fermilab can both probe now, with the LHC having some advantage.
      2. A range that only the full LHC can reach.

      If it falls into the latter, then nobody is discovering the Higgs for a few years until they get the LHC in gear. If it falls into #1, does it REALLY matter that much who finds it first?

      Currently excluded

      Tevatron sensitivity, slide 18

      Only the 180 - maybe 190 GeV range is allowed but outside the Tevatron's reach energy-wise. The LHC and Tevatron aren't redundant, though. Any signal seen by both can be combined for more certainty.

      Upgrading the LHC from 7 to 14 TeV doesn't really help find the Higgs.

      Also, who knows what other interesting physics we'll find at the higher LHC design energies, that we're just pushing off for years sticking where we are at now?

      I don't know what the odds of not seeing SUSY at 7 TeV but seeing it at 14 are, but I don't think they're that great. If SUSY exists at the electroweak scale, at least some of the particles should be seen at 7 TeV. OTOH, colliding at 14 TeV should make it easier (faster) to see new particles, even if they are around 1 TeV. Dunno what the arguments for and against running a year more before the upgrade have really been.