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US Spurs Plethora of Problem Solving Prizes

coondoggie writes "Got a complicated problem? Hold a prize competition to solve it. That's the basic idea behind the America Competes Act, renewed by Congress this week. According to the White House's Office of Science and Technology, the Competes Act gives every department and agency the authority to conduct prize competitions. Prizes and challenges have an excellent track record of accelerating problem-solving by tapping America's top talent and best expertise."

25 of 140 comments (clear)

  1. History repeated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Prizes posted by royalty were used in previous centuries to solve things like finding longitude whilst navigating at sea.

  2. and lowest expense by vux984 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Prizes and challenges have an excellent track record of accelerating problem-solving by tapping America's top talent and best expertise." ... and are cheap too because instead of paying people to solve it, you let a multitude of people do it in their free time, and then you pay the winner a set amount regardless of how long it took or what it actually cost. Everyone else gets nothing, regardless of how much time they spend, or what their expenses were.

    I'm surprised scientists get sucked into this stuff, its about as sensible as playing the lottery, and self-destructive to the viability of one's own profession.

    We're already seeing prize models for logo and website design...

    1. Re:and lowest expense by femto · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A critical question is: Who owns the result? A prize should be about promoting development, and NOT about acquiring ownership. Any prize recipient who transfers ownership is a bunny. The sequence should be:

      1. Win prize (prize posted to promote development.)
      2. Use prize money as seed funding for business
      3. PROFIT! Prize giver has a solution and developer has money.

      The reward for the 2nd, 3rd, .. place getters is the opportunity to still develop a business, albeit without the benefit of the prize money as funding.

    2. Re:and lowest expense by drb226 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm surprised scientists get sucked into this stuff, its about as sensible as playing the lottery, and self-destructive to the viability of one's own profession.

      Some people actually *enjoy* their profession, and do not need to be paid for *everything* they do (e.g. open source?). Plus, even if they don't win, they at least strengthen their portfolio and skills.

    3. Re:and lowest expense by vux984 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Some people actually *enjoy* their profession, and do not need to be paid for *everything* they do (e.g. open source?).

      So your argument is that people will compete for a cash prize because they aren't motivated by money?

    4. Re:and lowest expense by apoc.famine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not necessarily a bad argument. I've seen plenty of college clubs/programs that would happily apply their chosen talent/focus to a problem. They would even budget/fund-raise to make sure they could successfully pull it off. Why? Personal pride, sense of purpose, but often, if there is a cash prize, there's a round of photographs, news articles, and coverage in magazines and other media forms dedicated to their personal niche.

      The money may not be the motivation, but if there's an oversized check for $50,000, you can bet that someone's going to take a picture or two and write about it somewhere. For a lot of groups, that exposure is worth far more than the cash. Although the cash might be seed money for the next venture they jump into.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    5. Re:and lowest expense by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      "Prizes and challenges have an excellent track record of accelerating problem-solving by tapping America's top talent and best expertise." ... and are cheap too because instead of paying people to solve it, you let a multitude of people do it in their free time, and then you pay the winner a set amount regardless of how long it took or what it actually cost. Everyone else gets nothing, regardless of how much time they spend, or what their expenses were.

      Well, that depends... There were prizes for various aeronautical feats back in the (19)20's and 30's for fairly pitiful amounts, but that didn't stop people and companies from chasing after them because the knowledge and experience thus gained fed back into more productive/profitable work.
       

      I'm surprised scientists get sucked into this stuff, its about as sensible as playing the lottery, and self-destructive to the viability of one's own profession.

      That's because you hold the mistaken belief that if you're not the winner, you didn't accomplish anything.

    6. Re:and lowest expense by vux984 · · Score: 2

      That's because you hold the mistaken belief that if you're not the winner, you didn't accomplish anything.

      Not at all. But if I don't win, then it had better have been worth it to me doing it anyway. And if it was worth me doing it anyway, then I'd have done it anyway. And if I'd have done it anyway, there doesn't need to be a prize to motivate me to do what I'd have done anyway.

  3. Re:Only one winner! by windcask · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, but one could argue incentive for critical thought and problem-solving skills among today's youth pays dividends down the road.

  4. Welcome to the casino gulag state by benjamindees · · Score: 2

    It was pretty much inevitable that reward of government contracts would eventually devolve into hand-to-hand combat.

    Ave, Caesar, morituri te salutamus.

    --
    "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  5. Tap that Talent, but more Talent to Tap? by FatalChaos · · Score: 2

    I'm sure having problem solving competitions accelerates the process of solving a particular problem, if for no other reason than drawing more attention and prestige to that problem. However, I'm curious if competitions really have an effect on the number of people who pursue careers in math, physics, etc. I mean does anyone really go "man, I'm going to become a mathematician and get rich through these competitions." I know people often go into the sciences for love rather than money, but I don't see how these competitions would make people love science and math more.

  6. xcellent track record... by cinnamon+colbert · · Score: 2

    You have some data to back this up ?
    You have some real data to back this up, like some detailed comparison of 40 problems, with 20 solved by prize method and 20 solved by some other method ?
    I don't know if prizes are good or not; I know that argument by anecdote (x prize foundation....) is not a good substitute for thinking
    There is also a difference between a "solution" and a "solution" - it is easy to get something to work once for the prize committee; a lot harder to make it work many times, at a reasonable cost.

    1. Re:xcellent track record... by Guspaz · · Score: 2

      Don't think of them as anecdotes, think of them as case studies.

      Look at Netflix's contest. It seems to have been a big success. Netflix set a difficult goal in terms of improving on their recommendation algorithm. 41 thousand teams competed for the prize. Of those, over 5000 submitted valid entries, over 44 thousand in total. The teams published their progress and improved on each others' work. The winning team even published a variety of papers during the process. Eventually (three years later), the goal (a 10% improvement) was reached, and the prize handed out.

      The prize was $1m. With over 44 thousand entries, it's likely that millions of man-hours were spent on the contest. Clearly it would not have been possible to pay for the development that happened. On the other hand, a point might be raised as to if Netflix could not have paid to assemble a specific team to solve the problem with a $1m budget? $1m can pay for some pretty smart researchers for three years...

  7. Re:Who owns the results? by physicsphairy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No you're supposed to do it for a share of a dinette set plus the personal satisfaction you get from solving problems and the prestige and recognition of being the guy who beat everyone else at doing it.

    Fyi, people actually pay for the opportunity to compete in triathlons, and most of them aren't even expecting to win. The ones who do don't receive much in the way of compensation for the time they've invested in it. And yet hundreds of people still show up to do it.

    If you're not in the spirit of the game then it may not seem very equitable to you, but good news! It's 100% voluntary, so no need for you to worry about it.

  8. DARPA Grand Challenge by Trip6 · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is a classic example of this trend. Various government agencies spent literally hundreds of millions of dollars trying to get autonomous ground vehicles off the ground (so to speak). For under $50 million, DARPA conducted three events from 2004 - 2007 and spurred technology that is now being deployed in trucks, cars, boats, for 3-D mapping, and many other uses.

    They say that to improve your user interface design add a high score file. Everybody loves a competition!

    --
    I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
    1. Re:DARPA Grand Challenge by mbkennel · · Score: 2

      Maybe those hundreds of millions of dollars to academic and government research institutions in robotics and machine learning had a wee bit to do with the success of the teams who entered the competitions.

    2. Re:DARPA Grand Challenge by Trip6 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Teams were actually prohibited from using any government sponsored technology.

      As someone very close to this, I can tell you that most of the notable developments that came out of the race were not derivations of previously funded technology.

      --
      I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
  9. Re:$1,000,000,000,000 prize by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Huh? That's exactly what American politicians do: they govern according to the actual interests of their constituents, the Corporations, who provide them with generous "campaign donations".

  10. Re:Who owns the results? by blair1q · · Score: 2

    No you're supposed to do it for a share of a dinette set plus the personal satisfaction you get from solving problems and the prestige and recognition of being the guy who beat everyone else at doing it.

    I get all that anyway, but I deserve $150K, not a fucking dinette set.

    Fyi, people actually pay for the opportunity to compete in triathlons, and most of them aren't even expecting to win. The ones who do don't receive much in the way of compensation for the time they've invested in it. And yet hundreds of people still show up to do it.

    That's nice for them. But the people who win make MILLIONS OF FUCKING DOLLARS doing it and rarely have to pay their own entry fee, besides.

    If you're not in the spirit of the game then it may not seem very equitable to you, but good news! It's 100% voluntary, so no need for you to worry about it.

    It's not 100% voluntary. The government is sucking the value of innovation out of the economy by paying in dinette sets instead of what it's worth.

  11. It'll work if they pay out. by Jason+Pollock · · Score: 3, Insightful

    However, history teaches us that judges don't like innovative solutions to the problem.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitude_prize
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harrison

  12. Innocentive? by gringer · · Score: 2

    the Competes Act gives every department and agency the authority to conduct prize competitions

    Prize competitons, puzzles, solutions. It sounds a bit like innocentive, which is a more global thing that has been running for the past 9 years.

    --
    Ask me about repetitive DNA
  13. That's not why DARPA did it by Animats · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The DARPA Grand Challenge was actually Dr. Tony Tether's way of getting a message through to the academic robotics community - "get results or else". DARPA had been putting money into robotics work, and specific automatic driving work, at MIT, Stanford, and CMU since the 1960s, without getting anything that was close to useful. When the Grand Challenge was first announced, all three of those schools didn't intend to enter, and in fact, months into the competition, none of them had. Many non-academic entrants had signed up, but the big schools weren't in it.

    Then something happened. I gather that it was made clear to the major research groups that if the Grand Challenge resulted in better technology than what DARPA had received from academia, academic funding would be turned off. Suddenly, all three schools cranked up huge efforts, tying up a substantial fraction of their CS departments. Nobody had ever had 100-person crash programs in academic robotics before, let alone ones funded by the universities themselves.

    It worked. But it wasn't the carrot of winning that drove the major schools. The prize was only $1 million. It was the big stick of funding cuts.

  14. Why this works by Gorimek · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There are a few options for a government or other large organization to get something important and difficult done.

    1. Assign the task to whatever part of your org chart this falls under. Uncountable billions and years later, you'll have a semi functional disappointment. NASA has proven this several times.

    2. Contract it out to a major company, picked in some bidding process. The results are slightly better than (1), but still very bad.

    3. Announce a prize of 1% of what you would have spent in (1), and you'll likely have a solution in 1/3 of the time.

    This is because with prizes, whoever is best suited to solve the problem, in the whole world, can do so without having to convince your bureaucrats of their ideas, and make a profit doing so.

    It's one of the very few effective ways to work around natural bureaucracy inertia.

  15. Labour abuse! by theNAM666 · · Score: 2

    What this is, is an excuse for government not to pay people for work. Prizes and challenges have an excellent track record of impoverishing America's top talent and best expertise, and making the next generation unable to afford to educate themselves to innovate.

    In short: fuck this; range your Congresscritter.

  16. Re: enjoying starvation, poverty and death by theNAM666 · · Score: 2

    And some people actually *enjoy* their starvation, and do not need food for their children in exchange for *everything* they do . Plus, even if they don't win, they at least get to believe that they did something to better mankind while watching their children be eaten by the rich.