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23 Years of Culture Hacking With Perl

Modern Perl writes "Larry Wall, the creator of Perl, reflects on Perl's history of hacking its culture, from subverting the reductionist culture of Unix to reinventing the ideas of programming language and culture in Perl 6 and the verbal aikido used to encourage honest detractors to become valuable contributors. Perl turned 23 years old last week, and Perl 6 is available."

8 of 99 comments (clear)

  1. Yeah, now try hiring for it. by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Yeah, now try hiring for a good OO software engineer to write Perl. The applicant pool isn't spectacularly broad. Not too surprising, I suppose, since most of the positions out there featuring Perl are either QA automation or something titled "Build Engineer". Ruby has all the mindshare these days.

    (Hiring ~4 OO software engineers to do Perl. Forgive the inane outsourced hiring-management site. Merry Christmas.)

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  2. Perl by emijrp · · Score: 5, Funny

    The only language that looks the same before and after RSA encryption.

    1. Re:Perl by FooAtWFU · · Score: 5, Funny
      My favorite line of Perl code ever was in a validator somewhere. It checked whether something was a valid IPv4 construct (something netmask related, I forget the specifics) by passing it to the library, and seeing whether the library threw up or not.

      return !$@;#%

      Yes, the last 40% was purely gratuitous.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  3. Re:Perl6 by Short+Circuit · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've been playing around with Perl 6 a little this week. Rakudo works well enough that I'll be using Perl 6 where I've previously been using Perl. I find it useful to follow the Perl 6 Planet, as it has a bunch of Perl 6 developers' perspectives and musings as they use the langauge. (For example, one guy wrote his blogging engine in Perl 6, and commented on speed differences between a couple Perl 6 implementations.)

    I'm also helped that Larry Wall has been doing active code review of the Perl 6 code over on Rosetta Code, a site I run; it's nice to have an active source of idiomatic code for understanding the language.

  4. Surprised nobody mentioned yet by toby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That /. is written in Perl.

    --
    you had me at #!
  5. Re:After many years of excellent work, Perl is dyi by Junta · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My experience has been largely:
    -if working on existing progress, continue in language it is already in
    -if working on new project, what's the language most comfortable for the most developers available

    Frequently, the answer continues to be perl, sometimes python, sometimes ruby. Usually, I can't be bothered to care. If it comes down to my call, currently I prefer:
    -If planning to use across many OS updates, perl5. Nice and stagnant, not screwing around with how it does things, perl6 threatens this.
    -If not expecting a lot of churn on the runtime but active development across random developers coming and going as available, python as it forces readability.
    -If expected to work in a barebones as possible generic windows, vbscript, but please no.
    -If wanting to work with as few prereqs as possible on Windows server 2008r2/7, then powershell.
    -Have gone along with ruby, but have not personally found the magic situation I personally prefer it for above all other possibilities.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  6. Re:After many years of excellent work, Perl is dyi by grcumb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My recent experience is that discussions of Perl quickly turn to discussions of Python, after people make statements like, "If it weren't for CPAN, Perl would be dead."

    That's not too far from the truth, if you understand that statement to be analogous to "If it weren't for the US dollar, the American economy would be dead." It may only be one thing, but it's a pretty big thing.

    "There's more than one way to do it." translates to, quoting from Wikipedia, "This makes it easy to write extremely messy programs..."

    No grasshopper, you fundamentally misunderstand the implications of that statement. Show me a problem in which there isn't more than one way to do it, and I'll show you a problem you haven't grokked properly yet. Perl is a language without ideology. If programming languages were religions, perl would be closer to atheism (sorry Larry) than to anything else. Yes, it sometimes does cast people adrift because they're forced to accept that there is no final arbiter, that sometimes choices do come down to indulging one's biases. The difference here is that we recognise that, and that you have no one to blame for the biases except yourself.

    For a good programmer, this is one of the paths to enlightenment.

    To abuse the ideology metaphor a little further, perl is democratic (and borderline anarchic) because it does not criminalise stupidity. Likewise, it doesn't always protect you from yourself. If you really want to do things a certain way, the language probably won't stop you, and might even help you.

    And if you still don't get the freedom that perl provides, feel free to vacate the green space in front of my domicile. I'm not going to force you off, but I might laugh at you if you stay.

    --
    Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
  7. Re:Rambling, barely coherent, self-indulgent. by grcumb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I suppose I learned a lot about the Perl community though.

    Larry may sound glib most of the time, but if you took the time to look, you'd see method in his madness. He chooses to make his points lightly, because that's an important part of the message. Perl as a language is designed to reflect the idiosyncrasies of the human brain. It treats dogmatism as damage and routes around it. As Larry wrote, it is trollish in its nature. But its friendly, playful brand of trollishness is what allows it to continue to evolve as a culture.

    Strip away the thin veneer of sillyness and you'll see that everything I've written has been lifted directly from Larry's missive. Just because he likes to act a little silly doesn't mean he's wrong.

    One of the worst things a programmer can do is invest too much ego, pride or seriousness in his work. That is the path to painfully over-engineered, theoretically correct but practically useless software that often can't survive a single revision. Perl as a language isn't immune to any of these sins, but as a culture, it goes to some lengths to mitigate against them.

    --
    Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.