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French Minister Sells Surveillance Legislation With Fake Benefits

Dangerous_Minds writes "The debate over LOPPSI 2, the legislation that would allow police to upload malware including Trojan Horses and key loggers to unwitting users without a court order, is heating up in France. Interior minister Brice Hortefeux told the media that LOPPSI 2 would stop the theft of smart phones because vendors would then be able to discontinue use of on-board SIM cards. Critics are pointing out that the theft of stolen portable phones is not covered under LOPPSI 2 in its current form. Others also point out that the discontinued use of SIM cards on stolen phones is already possible in France without the legislation. It's unclear if this is just a case of the minister not knowing what is actually in the legislation he is trying to pass."

26 of 51 comments (clear)

  1. Do politicians ever understand by Ismellpoop · · Score: 2

    legislation they push?
    Or are the police possibly some other special interest groups pushing it?
    Politicians are yes men plain and simple.

    1. Re:Do politicians ever understand by bersl2 · · Score: 2

      They're mostly authoritarians too, just like political executives. I'm sure he knows exactly what he's doing.

    2. Re:Do politicians ever understand by Kilrah_il · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, it's quite sad that the option that the politician does not know what he is trying to pass is concievable. You would think that a professional would be well versed in the material he is working on. In the case of politicians (which are supposed to be our professional law-makers), we assume he does not have more than a passing aquaintance with the laws he is proposing. And the alternative is that he is blanatly lying. Amazing!
      Well, I must be new here... :)

      --
      Whenever in an argument, remember this.
    3. Re:Do politicians ever understand by arivanov · · Score: 2

      The problem is not so much with politicians. It is not the job of the politicos to be technically literate in every area of the human knowledge.

      The problem is mostly with people who advise them. These are the actual technically illiterate "yes men" in this and many other cases.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
  2. French minister Brice Hortefeux just lies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Brice Hortefeux is well known for not knowing what he is talking about and lying about facts on a daily basis.
    Note that he has been judged and condemned twice in the recent months (racism and presumption of innocence) so his lack of moral is not only notorious, it is also official.

    1. Re:French minister Brice Hortefeux just lies by PatPending · · Score: 1

      Brice Hortefeux is well known for not knowing what he is talking about and lying about facts on a daily basis.

      Applies to others as well. Here is the link to The Dissident Frogman's take on French news agency AFP.com. Or go directly to the hysterically funny, good-natured videotaped farce he performed for the occasion.

      In summary:

      We can live with a dishonest press -- as long as we know it -- but ignorance from those who pretend to inform us?

      --
      What one fool can do, another can. (Ancient Simian Proverb)
    2. Re:French minister Brice Hortefeux just lies by daem0n1x · · Score: 2

      Don't you French impeach politicians when they're convicted? Or, at the very least, pressure them to resign?

    3. Re:French minister Brice Hortefeux just lies by horza · · Score: 2

      Hardly. The current Minister for Defence Alain Juppé has been convicted for fraud whilst holding public office 2004. The fact that the French elite is riddled with corruption (Sarkozy, Chirac, Mitterand were all mired in fraud scandals) is why corruption is seen as ok.

      Phillip.

  3. Copycats by vuke69 · · Score: 1

    "It's unclear if this is just a case of the minister not knowing what is actually in the legislation he is trying to pass."

    Is he trying to copy American legislators?

    --
    Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. ~ Douglas Adams
  4. Allow me to be very clear here... by Noryungi · · Score: 4, Informative

    The current French government has proposed, in the recent past, to track down migrants, both legal and illegal, through genetic testing.

    This is a government which was one of the very first to propose a "three strikes and you are out" regulation to "fight" so-called Internet piracy. Even though it was repeatedly told this was an unpopular measure and one that was pretty much unfeasible technically.

    This is a governement whose minister in charge of the "three strikes" law actually mentioned that Linux was not concerned by music or movie piracy because it had "high performance firewalls" [sic] such as "Open Office" [!!].

    Coming from that government, nothing surprises me anymore. Like many politicians, all you need to know is that they are lying every time they open their mouths and that whatever they say they will do, they probably won't.

    --
    The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
    1. Re:Allow me to be very clear here... by Noryungi · · Score: 2

      Yes, my dear A.C.: just google "morano linux hadopi open office" and enjoy the links.

      Of course, it requires a minimum of knowledge of the french language. Once again, Google (Translate) is your friend.

      --
      The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
    2. Re:Allow me to be very clear here... by eulernet · · Score: 1

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F011hLZHZrM

      Automatic subtitles may be available.

    3. Re:Allow me to be very clear here... by mouf · · Score: 1

      Well, here in France, the "open-office firewall" is becoming a real meme. And here is the source: http://www.numerama.com/magazine/12508-albanel-le-ministere-de-la-culture-a-comme-pare-feu-open-office-maj.html You can even see the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph6ZeEDnFmc Both links are in French, but Google Translate will help you :) To be fair, it's been 1 year since this ministry has been replaced, but it is unsure the one in place knows any better about IT.

    4. Re:Allow me to be very clear here... by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      Why did Nick Clegg cross the road?

      Because he said he wouldn't.

  5. Incompetence FTW! by serutan · · Score: 1

    It's unclear if this is just a case of the minister not knowing what is actually in the legislation he is trying to pass.

    Silly rabbit! If France is anything like the USA, having to actually read what his corporate sponsors email him before he cuts and pastes it into law would waste valuable schmoozing time.

    1. Re:Incompetence FTW! by OneAhead · · Score: 1

      I fear you might be on to something. Friends in different places in the world are complaining that politics (and more importantly, public opinion) in the countries they're living in is creeping steadily to the right. Same in my home country and in the country I'm currently living in. Wonder where this will end...

  6. "uploading malware" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is why I maintain a 100% strict policy that I, and only I, decide what runs on my computer.

    It's also a reason why I will never own a computer that I do not own. That means no iPads, no iPhones, no Kindles, and a ton of others.

    I take whatever technical steps are necessary for my computer to obey me and only me. Of course, someone with physical access could compromise it, but that means they have to have broken into my house, which isn't feasible on a wide scale. And someone could, in theory, compromise the OSS operating system I use, but it seems unlikely France has done that.

    Unfortunately, my policy means more and more cool modern consumer devices are off limits to purchase, because I don't get to own them after purchase.

  7. french &politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The truth is French Politics were on the side of Hitler in WWII, not so much much against the jews as much as just admiration for fascism and totalitarian state power structure napoleon( the short)....
    as usual lesson givers they want to be the first fascist state on the internet , and as usual they missed the first place taken by china.

    1. Re:french &politics by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Most politicians around the world admired the fascists before WWII. The majority never really got over it, they just knew that they couldn't admit it after war broke out.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  8. Sometimes... by Rhaban · · Score: 1

    I hate my country.

  9. No incompetence there. by Mauvaisours · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is the same law that creates a blacklist of sites that must be blocked by ISPs, the list being secret, created by the interior minister, no appeal, no review.... And they claim it will stop pedo-pornography. They DO know what they're doing, they're just lying as usual.

    1. Re:No incompetence there. by jimicus · · Score: 2

      They DO know what they're doing, they're just lying as usual

      AFAICT, this is SOP for most western governments in the world today.

      It wouldn't surprise me if it had been SOP for most of the last couple of centuries, only now with things like the Internet it's becoming rather easier to spot.

  10. Re:Bad summary by uncle+slacky · · Score: 2

    What's the betting that the keylogger and screengrabber only work in Windows anyway?

    Of course, if you run Linux you'll be automatically assumed to be a terrorist...

    --
    Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it.
  11. Or maybe like a shady used car salesman... by Drakkenmensch · · Score: 1

    ... the minister knowing exactly what he's trying to sell and hoping nobody will notice?

  12. i feel safe by nopainogain · · Score: 1

    the cops around here, noble guys as they may be. cannot differentiate their mouse and keyboard. They paid for half my beer money when I was in college by downloading every type of crap imaginable and hiring me to repair/remove it.

  13. Re:I miss the old country... by bat21 · · Score: 1

    You're right, now instead of retarded and lying we have a president that's brilliant and lies.... Personally, I'll take the retard.