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College Students Lack Scientific Literacy

An anonymous reader writes with news of research into the scientific literacy of college biology students. Earlier studies found that students tended to "rely on mainly informal reasoning derived from their personal experiences," so the researchers derived a new instructional framework that explicitly taught principle-based reasoning. While the number of students who used this method did increase, more than half continued to use informal reasoning, which the researchers say points to a flaw in the way biology is taught (PDF). "Most college-level instruction presents students with complicated narratives about the details of key processes (e.g., cellular respiration), but does not explicitly reinforce the use of key principles to connect those processes. Therefore, students are understandably occupied with memorizing details of processes without focusing on the principles that govern and connect the processes. ... As a result, students may leave an introductory biology course with the ability to recite the reactions in the Calvin cycle but still believing that plants obtain most of their mass from the soil rather than from the atmosphere, that plants photosynthesize but do not respire, or that the mass of a decomposing organism will primarily return to the soil."

61 of 382 comments (clear)

  1. Early Development by Sonny+Yatsen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Kids get discouraged way too early in their school lives. From their peers, their teachers and their parents, they get the message that science and math is boring and hard, and they take that to college. That's why in math classes, you might find a person that can perfectly integrate a function, but be utterly unable to describe what integration actually does. Science and math has become just an algorithm to them: If you follow X steps, then you will get the answer, then you will path the class.

    --
    My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
    1. Re:Early Development by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Don't worry, you'll still get a grade of 110% just for trying.

    2. Re:Early Development by I8TheWorm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A huge problem with that is getting qualified (and hopefully excited) teachers in those fields. If people do well in math or science, they tend to go into higher paying jobs rather than into teaching. What happens then is the math or science teaching vacancy goes to the newly hired teacher with a general knowledge and an education degree, they're handed the book and curriculum, and told to teach.

      It's my contention that those who have a nice career and a deep knowledge of math and/or science should consider spending the last few years working as a (fully qualified) teacher.

      --
      Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
    3. Re:Early Development by 0123456 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's my contention that those who have a nice career and a deep knowledge of math and/or science should consider spending the last few years working as a (fully qualified) teacher.

      A while back I was reading an article by someone (engineer, I think) who looked at doing that. Then they discovered they'd have to take numerous training courses to prove they could teach kids about what they'd been doing for years and decided they had better things to do with their life.

      If you really want better teachers in schools, you could start by eliminating all the roadblocks that keep them out.

    4. Re:Early Development by Sonny+Yatsen · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In a lot of other countries with a much better education system, teachers are recruited from the top of the graduating classes and are given incentives to go and teach. I wish that's something we could implement in the US for education reform rather than grading teachers on how effective they are at teaching their kids how to take a specific test.

      --
      My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
    5. Re:Early Development by doconnor · · Score: 5, Funny

      Spelling is boring and hard and kids get discouraged from writing way too early in their school lives.

    6. Re:Early Development by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've met some very bright and talented teachers but I have to say that on the whole teachers do not seem to be the cream of the crop, or even the whole milk... maybe non-fortified skim would be about right. The teachers here are very well paid. They don't seem to have much facility with logic and seem, well, woefully uneducated. It might help if they also had to complete an actual degree in something other than teaching.

      I don't see teaching to tests as a problem... if the tests are well thought out.

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    7. Re:Early Development by slapout · · Score: 2

      I feel the same way about my math education. I feel I was taught the how, but not the why -- how to plug things into a formula rather than how the formula came to be and want it means.

      --
      Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
    8. Re:Early Development by hedwards · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, but in college I had a faculty member in genetics, the man definitely knew his stuff, but as a teacher he was more or less a complete flop. Yes, the requirements do need to be reasonable, but just because somebody knows their field doesn't mean that they're qualified to teach. I know that there's this common conception that teaching is easy if you know how to do the tasks, but that's really not true.

      The point is, that having to demonstrate capability exists for a reason. Sure it is cumbersome and probably could use a modernization and culling of some of the requirements, but it's there to try and minimize the cases where teachers are thrown into a classroom environment without being able to teach.

    9. Re:Early Development by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 2

      Why bother spelling write when ewe just get red squiggly lines under each tpyo?

      Spelling correctly is just a right-lick a way.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    10. Re:Early Development by y_axis · · Score: 2

      We really need a way to teach the gifted children in a different manor than the dumb ones who need it repeated twenty times.

      I don't think the gifted children would care whether they were taught in a different manor, or in a regular school building with all the other kids.

    11. Re:Early Development by Seumas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the US, people who think rationally and value knowledge and critical thinking are considered "elitists" and derided. Just talking properly will probably get the occasional "what are you, a homo?!" thrown at you. Then there's the whole typical US rationality (which is probably more global, but what do I know?) of things like "I can't imagine a world where god doesn't exist; therefore, god exists".

      Also, I remember finally being so thoroughly depressed by high school that I just gave up. The specific cause in question was that my freshman science curriculum was the same "Earth Science" book that we had used in fifth grade.

      Anyway, in this country, we have a saying - "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."

    12. Re:Early Development by Seumas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Government has learned that teaching you to think critically doesn't help them, but teaching you the joys of obeying authority figures does.

    13. Re:Early Development by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that you don't have to demonstrate that you can teach, you just have to meet a set of semi-arbitrary standards that are primarily designed to ensure employment for those who teach "Education".
      If they wanted to ensure that potential teachers could teach, they would test the students at the beginning and end of the student teaching assignment and only those whose students showed an improvement in understanding the subject above a certain level would get certified. Designing the tests and defining the level is another subject.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    14. Re:Early Development by Sonny+Yatsen · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://www.mckinsey.com/clientservice/Social_Sector/our_practices/Education/Knowledge_Highlights/Closing_the_talent_gap.aspx

      Noting: "Attracting and Retaining Top-Third Graduates to Careers in Teaching ,” we review the experiences of the top-performing systems in the world—Singapore, Finland, and South Korea. These countries recruit, develop, and retain the leading academic talent as one of their central education strategies, and they have achieved extraordinary results. In the United States, by contrast, only 23 percent of new teachers come from the top third, and just 14 percent in high poverty schools, where the difficulty of attracting and retaining talented teachers is particularly acute."

      http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5juGFSx9LiPaur6eO1KJAypB2ImVQ?docId=CNG.5337504e8f65acf16c57d5cac3cfe339.1c1

      From the Article: "The United States has fallen from top of the class to average in world education rankings, said a report Tuesday that warned of US economic losses from the trend. .... ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics.

      Incidentally, the PISA Report on education on which the previous article is about uses a sampling of 15 year old students. It's not comparing our students with the cream of their crop. It's comparing our average students with their average students.

      Most other countries are trying to make their education system more like Finland, South Korea and Singapore, not our's. Heck, even in the US, there are non-Asian parents who send their kids to Chinese school as an afterschool supplement because the math and science education offered there is often much better than what's offered in public schools.

      --
      My postings are informational and does not constitute legal advice. Act on it at your risk.
    15. Re:Early Development by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      It's my contention that those who have a nice career and a deep knowledge of math and/or science should consider spending the last few years working as a (fully qualified) teacher.

      And put up with the headaches of putting up with a bunch of bored, spoiled brats who don't give a damn in the first place?

      No thanks. High school sucked, reliving it every day to put up with crap from teenagers just isn't worth it.

      I generally agree with what you're saying, I just don't see the reward as being worth the hassles.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    16. Re:Early Development by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 2

      State education departments don't use the scientific method to figure out which bad teachers to fire, they don't use it to figure out which education methodology works best, they don't use it to figure out optimal class size or technology investment...

      It seems self-evident to me that they wouldn't effectively teach a tool they've never used.

    17. Re:Early Development by geckipede · · Score: 2

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading

      This is a nice, recent attempt to answer that question.

      Being beaten by South Korea is nothing to be ashamed of, but being beaten across all three categories by Poland has got to be embarassing.

      As for attempts worldwide to change school systems, the talk in the UK at least is in trying to imitate the Swedes and the Norwegians.

    18. Re:Early Development by y_axis · · Score: 2

      Sorry. Guess my attempt at grammar humor was too subtle. (I am not gifted).

    19. Re:Early Development by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In a lot of other countries with a much better education system, teachers are recruited from the top of the graduating classes and are given incentives to go and teach.

      Which countries are these?

      Finland is a good example and among the best in the world. Their teachers are one of their highest paid professions and are government jobs. Less than 3% of grade school students go to private school. All education is free right up through doctoral degrees and includes free meals and healthcare.

      Many other countries are starting to use them as a model for changes to their own educational system, including China who has been taking great interest in reforming their education along those lines. I don't expect it to ever happen in the US though, we're a bit too isolationist and the majority opinion is that we're "better" at education and many other things despite objective evidence to the contrary.

    20. Re:Early Development by strider200142 · · Score: 2

      Agree completely! I went and got my teaching credential which was an exercise in regurgitating bullshit and wading through requirements that did little to enhance my teaching skills. Next I find out that I can begin teaching, but am required (in California) to go through two years of BTSA (Beginning Teacher Support and Assessment) which adds extra meetings, extra reading, and extra assignments (yes, assignments when I'm working AS a teacher!) that have once again nothing to do with what I'm doing in the classroom unless its a "reflective essay". Top this with the fact that new teachers are saddled with 3-5 different courses to teach, and I mean different. One job wanted me to teach chemistry, physics, geometry, and some random sports related thing. That's a LOT of different lessons to plan and prep for. And for the icing on the cake, you get paid next to nothing. For those that point out summer and winter vacation, yes those are nice but the amount of work you bring home with you as a teacher is ridiculous. Especially if you are a new teacher and need to make lesson plans every week! I heard from veterans that by year 5-9 things ease up.... Now I'm in full flight, unemployed and looking for a new career. I will return to teaching only to keep myself from under a bridge since at that point the level of respect one would get is finally dipping below that of a teacher.... -Gabriel

    21. Re:Early Development by Americano · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

      There's an uncomfortable element of truth to this too, and I say this as a devoted son of two career teachers: If you are top in your Computer Science class, Google or Apple or Microsoft comes along to hire you, offers you a good starting salary with benefits, and a brand-name employer that you can show off to your friends. There's less demand for "the guy who graduated last," which means that the lower-paying jobs - i.e., teaching - will fall to those who... 'can't' get the job at Google.

      There simply isn't a great deal of incentive for the "top of the class" to go into education: fight your way through a mystifyingly complex government bureaucracy for a full day of discipline problems and budget cuts, all for the same pay as the meathead who barely graduated college? Gee, where do I sign up?

      A couple changes that I think would go a long way towards addressing some of this:
      1) Abolish tenure. If you're good, your job is safe. If you're not good, you should be turfed.
      2) Merit pay for teachers. GOOD merit pay - competitive with industry, and awarded in equal measure to your effectiveness & talents as a teacher.
      3) Incentives for effective teachers to work with disadvantaged students.
      4) Expand grants, scholarships, etc. - think the Americorps concept. "We give you a scholarship, and in return, you teach for several years after graduation."

    22. Re:Early Development by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "You really think people look down on doctors and scientists?"

      Doctors are highly regarded, scientists however are definitely not. Scientists are the mad freaks who are hell bent on destroying the world, or the clueless fools who carelessly come within a half-second of accidentally wiping out the human race, or are the corrupt assholes sucking down megabucks from (insert taxpayer/government tit, Big Oil, Big Pharma, or other common target here) while doing next to nothing except fabricating results, or at best, scientists are the harmless, socially awkward, nerdy guys in white labcoats with inch-thick glasses endlessly puttering about on something they find fascinating but is absolutely useless. Those stereotypes are pure bullshit as any actual scientist will tell you, but that's how we're viewed.

    23. Re:Early Development by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Teaching is a skill. Teacher training does not impart it. One of the best physics teachers that I've had was a trainee teacher who had worked in industry and made enough to retire, but decided to teach physics as a hobby (teaching is probably a lot more fun if you can afford to say to the admin people 'I'm not going to put up with this crap, if you want you can fire me, but you get to deal with all of the parental complaints when you replace me with someone less competent'). I had other teachers at the same stage in their training who were useless and others who were fully qualified teachers but still incompetent.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    24. Re:Early Development by SeaFox · · Score: 2

      I wish that's something we could implement in the US for education reform rather than grading teachers on how effective they are at teaching their kids how to take a specific test.

      Except that's all parents really care about. Do they really care if their child learns the material? No, they want high test scores because the test scores are what decides who gets into what college and therefore who gets into higher paying jobs and is (at least by many standards) who's more successful in life.

      Have you every met people in top jobs who don't seem to know what they're doing? They didn't learn it in school, but they passed the right tests and sold themselves well enough to the right people. They're doing well in life anyway, so they could care less.

    25. Re:Early Development by rekenner · · Score: 2

      The problem with merit pay is that it then pushes teachers away from wanting to teach those that are hard to teach, and towards kids that are 'easy' to teach. Teachers that teach students with mental handicaps or are also learning English as a second language *along with* the standard school subjects rarely do as well or improve as much as other students. How do you account for that? You did mention that in 3), at least, but it would be very hard to make the system fair.

      Then, on the other side of the problem, students that are already "advanced". Those that tend to get in the highest percentile/grade of exams every year. If you base merit pay on score, the lucky teachers have it easy. If you base it on improvement, well, how do improve on being in the 99th percentile? Further, how do you base the merit pay? A standardized test? That's the system that's been proposed (and shot down) in Florida. Which is a horrible system, as, well, standardized tests are rarely good.

      Sigh. I mean, I do agree with you, to a large extent. I actually *want* to be a professor. And while I'll be the first to admit I'm not top of my class, I think I could do the job well - Until we get to the politics of the matter. And I've thought a fair amount about fixing K-12 education (partly as an idle thought, partially because my sister does teach ESE/ESOL 4th graders), but it is not an easy problem to figure out a solution to.

    26. Re:Early Development by sznupi · · Score: 2

      Well they do have relatively sizable Finnish Swede and Russian populations, some recent immigration, differences in military spending in percentage of GDP aren't very dramatic.,,

      But most importantly, they have two times lower population density. Going from their 17 per sq km to 32 makes things easier when it comes to scaling. And, FYI, preventative healthcare is also part of healthcare, and isn't free (might very well be more efficient of course)

      Finns present at US university level (you seem to almost assume lack of possibility of reverse situation? Heck, I had students from US at my uni in Poland, even in my dorm ("substandard", I'm sure...) - from Texas, to boot) don't tell much about condition of the whole system. Not when the US has (together with the UK) the lowest social mobility among developed nations.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    27. Re:Early Development by tehdaemon · · Score: 2

      You can have a phonetic alphabet, or you can have standardized spelling - not both. Most words in english are spelled the way they were pronounced.

      Yes - I mean words like 'through' and 'knight"

      English has fixed spelling - and therefore can't have a phonetic alphabet. The core reason for this is simple - language changes over time. The rules of spelling are being ignored, mostly because the rules are made up after the fact to match the language. And the rules we have are getting rather out of date.

      T

      --
      Laws are horrible moral guides, moral guides make even worse laws.
  2. Logic Fail by MozeeToby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    [They still believe that...] plants obtain most of their mass from the soil rather than from the atmosphere

    How could this possibly work? Farmers ship millions of tons of foodstuffs every year, unless they're spreading an equal volume of human excrement on their fields they'd be farming in pit mines after a few decades. That doesn't even begin to address that the soil that plants actually grow in is only a matter of inches deep in many locations, or the fact that you can grow plants in water more efficiently than in soil. So yeah, I'd say we're missing some basic logic tools if biology majors can't think that one through.

    1. Re:Logic Fail by by+(1706743) · · Score: 2

      Duh, there's a lot of dirt in the rain...

    2. Re:Logic Fail by blair1q · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It points out the real problem with science education: we're not teaching the big facts and then delving into the intricacies, we're teaching the intricacies and hoping the big facts are obvious.

      It's nothing about "informal" or "principle-based" reasoning, it's just inadequate communication.

    3. Re:Logic Fail by turtledawn · · Score: 2

      Suburban kids go into biology and most of those think of it as pre-med. Farmers' kids have the sense to go into agronomics, which is where the money is, such as it is. Those suburban kids have probably never seen a farm field over the years to realize that (with decent to ok management) it doesn't gradually sink into the ground.

      --
      Uh, "if it looks roughly mouse-shaped according to my infra-red sensitive pit, eat it"? --Chris Burke 09-08-10
    4. Re:Logic Fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      The problem is that they were never asked the question, and never asked themselves the question either (presumably because they had simply assumed the mass come from the soil from a young age). This was never addressed in any of my science courses which included two highschool biology courses - though I did have to memorize the details of the Krebs cycle and RNA transcription (which I have since forgotten).

      I am somewhat embarrassed to admit that I did not realize that the bulk of the mass came from the air until I vacationed in China long after graduation, and saw large trees growing from tiny pads of dirt on mountain cliffs. That was a strong indication that the mass was most likely coming from the air.

    5. Re:Logic Fail by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 2

      I think that was the whole point, that they weren't "thinking things through", rather, they were intuitively "knowing" (i.e. assuming) things that weren't correct.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    6. Re:Logic Fail by WarwickRyan · · Score: 2

      Huh. They teach you in high school biology that 60%+ of the mass of most organisms is water.

    7. Re:Logic Fail by Bureaucromancer · · Score: 2

      Agreed. There may well be (no, never mind, there definitely is) a failing in the teaching things like method and reasoning, but this is the great failing. The whole system is tailored to teach detail and intricacy, and to largely do so by rote. The only thing this will teach is the regurgitation of specific facts and techniques - it certainly won't impart any kind of understanding.

    8. Re:Logic Fail by noidentity · · Score: 2

      Well, for one, isn't most plant weight due to water? Farmers certainly put millions of tons of water on their farms every year.

    9. Re:Logic Fail by PRMan · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think you'll find more critical thinking and science at the Creation Museum than the average freshman could fathom. While you may not agree with their evidence that evolution and the big bang have major holes that cannot be explained and that some evidence points to creation more than to evolution, your statement only proves that you have never been to the Creation Museum, thereby committing exactly what the Slashdot article is outlining: people making scientific "statements of fact" without ever considering the evidence.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    10. Re:Logic Fail by LateArthurDent · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It points out the real problem with science education: we're not teaching the big facts and then delving into the intricacies, we're teaching the intricacies and hoping the big facts are obvious.

      It's nothing about "informal" or "principle-based" reasoning, it's just inadequate communication.

      Ugh. We should be teaching the intricacies and allow the students to derive the big facts. Doing otherwise reinforces memorization. If you do it your way then yes, they'd be able to tell you that plants get most of their mass from the atmosphere, but they still wouldn't understand it. They'd be reciting trivia.

      The problem is that we don't teach people how to reason. Look at how MozeeToby explained the big fact. He used a number of intricacies, "farmers ship millions of tons of foodstuffs every year", "plants grow in soil only inches deep", "plants can grow in water more efficiently than in soil." From these tools, he's able to derive the "big fact." He's not reciting trivia, he's giving you small facts and demonstrating that he understands their significance.

      Ideally, that's how science classes would be taught. You give the student the equations, you explain the theory. Then you don't ask them to recite them back to you on tests. You give them problems which force them to show understanding. Ask for the big fact in the test, "explain, and back up with reaction equations, where plants get most of their mass from. Explain how they acquire each chemical at every step of the process."

      I used to have a professor while in college for an EE class that insisted in individual oral exams. The class was small enough, but it still took him about two weeks to go through everyone, each time. When you were taking the exam, he'd start by pointing you to the blackboard with a calculator and asking you a tremendously complicated question, which you could solve if you really understood the material. Most people couldn't, but that's ok: He would ask you a somewhat simpler question, which, if you could solve would lead you part of the way to the answer to the original question. If you couldn't solve that, he'd break it up into simpler questions. Eventually, he'd break it down far enough that everyone would have an a-ha moment, and he'd grade you based on just how much he had to help you before you got the answer. I swear I learned more in that one class than in any EE course I had taken before, and most of it was right there during the exam. I had equations memorized, but I didn't understand them until I was forced to think.

    11. Re:Logic Fail by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2

      Actually it is a fail from the quote taken from the article. The actual study says that this is the misconception: "Gases such as carbon dioxide lack sufficient mass to lead to the development of dry biomass in plants. Plants get mass from the soil."
      So, the actual problem is that students believe that plants get most of their dry bio-mass from the soil, which is incorrect.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    12. Re:Logic Fail by blair1q · · Score: 2

      If you do it your way then yes, they'd be able to tell you that plants get most of their mass from the atmosphere, but they still wouldn't understand it.

      No, if you do it my way then they learn that plants get their mass from the air and how it happens, instead of just how it happens. They'll also learn how you go from an observed fact (plants aren't taking mass from the ground, where's it coming from? it must be the water or the air) and figure out how it works. That's science.

      Nature doesn't give you intricate theories that you can turn into facts, it just gives you facts. If you want mathematics, that's down the hall.

    13. Re:Logic Fail by lgw · · Score: 2

      The Creation Museum makes a point very related to TFA: evolution as typically taught in high school is nonsense. That's the reason this creationism stuff just won't die! If you teach any science as a set of facts to memorize, then when someone points out that many of those "facts" are wrong, you're left with no reason to believe the science. I understand that introductory material needs to be simplified, but continuing to teach debunked "examples" of evolution from when it was a new idea isn't helping here, nor is oversimplifying the basics to the point of being wrong.

      Heck, I had biology teacher who was motivated and good at the mechanis of teaching, but I was never taught the definition of evolution ("the statistical distribution of alleles in a population changes over time"), or any of the math related to it, or even that is was a mathematical model. I was never taught why the fact that cladistic taxonomy works means that the theory of common ancestry has made millions of successful predictions. This stuff was never taught as science, that is, as a set of simple first principles from which you can deduce most of modern biology. But I did memorize a bunch of stuff about cell activity, all of which i have forgotten.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  3. Interesting Litmus Test by iethree · · Score: 2

    Why is litmust test of biological knowledge (for college freshman) whether they know where plants get the majority of there mass? I'm not a biologist... but that doesn't seem to be the deepest or most fundamental principle of biology...

    1. Re:Interesting Litmus Test by The_mad_linguist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, I think that the assertion that most of a plant's mass comes from the soil is correct.

      The majority of plant species are mostly water by mass, and water enters a plant primarily through the roots.

    2. Re:Interesting Litmus Test by TeethWhitener · · Score: 2

      To be fair, I have a Ph. D. in chemistry from a very prestigious university and I thought some of these questions were inappropriately tough. The chlorophyll one sticks out in my mind as being both tough (need to know the pathway for chlorophyll biosynthesis) and wrong: the test indicated that it was false that some of the atoms come from glucose produced by photosynthesis. Without knowing the metabolic pathway leading to chlorophyll, there's no telling if those carbon atoms were derived from glucose or from amino acids or lipids. And, as far as I can remember, the phytol side chain on chlorophyll a and b is synthesized from acetyl-coA units, which come directly from glycolysis, and hence, glucose. While I tend to agree that scientific education is flawed, and even that it is flawed in the ways that are highlighted in the paper, I don't think this particular study is the greatest metric of the effects of these flaws on student understanding.

  4. Math Illiteracy leads to science illiteracy by ral · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Science illiteracy is strongly rooted in math illiteracy. Cliff Mass, a Seattle area Professor of Meteorology, gives his incoming freshman students a math test. This is a test of basic math skills that should be mastered before high school. Yet the average score for college freshman science students is only 58%.

    You can find the answers to the above test in his blog article.

    1. Re:Math Illiteracy leads to science illiteracy by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      I disagree. Math is not science.

      Math is a creative process of seeking answers to questions, which are purely imaginative.

      So from the very beginning, Math is rooted in imagination - imagining an abstract problem to solve for the heck of it.

      Secondly Math is about finding an interesting 'beautiful' to the mind solution to the problem that was imagined.

      Science on the other hand is about observing phenomena and trying to find the mechanisms by which the phenomena can be explained. Science is about discovery of natural phenomena and finding answers to the question: how does that work.

      Math is about coming up with a completely imagined idea and then trying to see if there is a way to grind this idea down to nuts and bolts that are already explained and showing the process.

      Math is about beauty of the mind and of the unknown but also of totally imagined.

      Science is about answering questions that are raised every day to how things work, how to make things work better, how to fix things, how to come up with new things based on already known things, how to find things that may exist but are not known yet.

      ---

      I'd say that math literacy is not extremely important for a natural scientist who is just observing and trying to come up with simple explanations of phenomena, but math will make it easier to generalize the explanation.

      You do not have to understand math at all to come up with reasonable explanations on how things work by doing observations and experiments.

      However math will make you a better scientist, because math does require and improve understanding of logic and of imagination and it allows to build frameworks for explaining natural phenomena that can be described very tightly through math.

    2. Re:Math Illiteracy leads to science illiteracy by fishbowl · · Score: 2

      All people should learn arithmetic. The problem is, we expect all people to also learn mathematics.
      If there were two separate paths for arithmetic and mathematics, and the branch was early enough, then we could stop expecting people who aren't wired for mathematics to be able to grasp it, while not putting innumerates into the population as a result.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  5. Ignorance of the Philosophy of Science by catchblue22 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I would speculate that at a logical philosophical level, a large number of students are ignorant of what science actually is. Science is often taught as a series of completed results, as a series of facts to be memorized. While to some extent this is difficult to avoid when teaching base knowledge, I suspect many students concentrate on what "gets them the grade", which is demonstrated knowledge of specific material, often memorized. In most high school programs, students are not adequately taught the reasons for knowledge (the International Baccalaureate program is often an exception to this). They are not explicitly taught logic and reason. And since the root of science is logic and reason, I would argue that most students are hobbled in their studies.

    --
    This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
    1. Re:Ignorance of the Philosophy of Science by doconnor · · Score: 2

      I recently discovered a remarkable fanfiction retelling of a fantasy series that could teach these lessons in an inspiring way: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality

  6. Most of the mass of a plant is water. by dweller_below · · Score: 2

    > but still believing that plants obtain most of their mass from the soil rather than from the atmosphere..

    I may be a hick from a cow college, but most of the mass of my plants is water. Water that is sucked up from the soil via a root-system.

    Granted, the atmosphere moves the water around, but the plant gets it's water (and thus most of it's mass) from the soil.

    Miles

    1. Re:Most of the mass of a plant is water. by Ironchew · · Score: 2

      > but still believing that plants obtain most of their mass from the soil rather than from the atmosphere..
      It's the supreme irony of the self-righteous that the strawmen they set up occasionally have valid points.

    2. Re:Most of the mass of a plant is water. by gurps_npc · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You confused current mass with intake/outtake. While most organic life is water, we are talking about intake and out take, not current composition

      The Cycle they mentioned means that plants consume 6 C20 (12 Carbon + 6 Oxygen) for every 5 H20 (10 Hydrogen and 5 Oxygen), every time they photosynthesize.

      This means that while the end plant may be mostly water, they are consuming more of their weight in Carbon dioxide than in water.

      So now you are asking, if the plant is consuming more carbon dioxide than water, what happens to the carbon dioxide, as the water is at least partly kept? The Carbon is kept, while the oxygen is given off. The amount of water that is taken in and kept is relatively small compared to the carbon that is kept PLUS the oxygen that is given off.

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    3. Re:Most of the mass of a plant is water. by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 2

      The actual test explicitly specified "(dry biomass, after removing the water)".

      [ Using "mass" as an informal shorthand for dry mass is common in plant science. Wet weight is used to indicate that water is included. ]

  7. Americans, I presume? by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    makes sense. When I was a kid doing well in school meant you were a nerd & a loser. Other countries don't allow that to happen. But we've got to devalue education so we can slash funding you know.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  8. They lack general literacy by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's not just scientific literacy, it's mathematical and grammatical as well. It's not that American kids are getting dumber, it's that American colleges are accepting anyone to a four year program if they sign up for one. The downside of that is that the average ability of incoming students trends downward.

    The problem is that we've created a system that values a piece of paper that says you were in college for four years, even if those four years have absolutely nothing to do with the job position. There's nothing wrong with going to trade school, and in more than just a few trades you'll end up laughing all the way to the bank, making more money with your two year degree than a lot of people with a four year degree, all while paying a lot less for it.

    Even many four year programs could be significantly shortened. A cousin of mine received a business degree from a program that crammed it all into one year. His job was school, his off-time was school, and they expected him to be there everyday in appropriate dress. They didn't fuck around and neither did he, and know he's out and being productive while a bunch of other kids are pissing away four years on classes they don't care about and keg parties.

    1. Re:They lack general literacy by sourcerror · · Score: 2

      Where I live vocational work will get you minimal wage ($400 a month; I have two masons in the family), and all foreign companies require Bsc. That's Hungary, Eastern-Europe. And tuition is free. (for 9 semesters for a Bsc degree; going to masters you get 4 additional free semesters)

  9. Why bother? by MacGyver2210 · · Score: 2

    Biology?

    We'll all be computers in robot bodies in the next 100 years anyway.

    --
    If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
  10. Re:You fail. by FrootLoops · · Score: 2

    That's unhelpful. Even if you're right, you didn't say why, and you implied the GP is stupid. They gave their reasoning, which you didn't bother to refute. (It just annoys me when people debate poorly.)

  11. I blame the 'exam' system myself. by Haedrian · · Score: 2

    I think the problem is that exams, which determine whether you pass or not - is the only point for studying that subject.

    I used to love science when I was younger, and I used to ask a ton of questions during class, some of which returned the answer "Because that's how it is" or "That's not in the sillabus"

    The idea that we're implanting into people's heads is "You study You get a good mark in the exam". The exam will ask you to regurgitate the knowledge that you know back on the paper - and don't bother reasoning it or thinking it out.

    At higher levels, then science or whatever does touch into 'you have to think', but for the first few years, the idea implanted into your head is that the exam is the most important thing, and it is a test of memory. Not logic. That's where it fails.

  12. People use natural ideas, however looney by fatmar · · Score: 2

    Harvard Physics discovered this exact problem in the 1960s and hence started all the misconception work by Hestenes, et al. and that work's spread to just about everything (except computer science). The TOLT (Tobin and Capie, 1981) test is readily available for physics and similar ones for each discipline --- enjoy: try it on your kids, spouse and others.

    --
    D. E. (Steve) Stevenson, Ph.D. Emeritus Associate Professor,School of Computing,Clemson University.