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Are You Ready For the Digital Afterlife?

theodp writes "Dave Winer's call for Future-Safe Archives goes mainstream in Rob Walker's NY Times Magazine cover story on how the Internet can provide a certain kind of immortality to those who are prepared. To illustrate how digital afterlives might play out, Walker cites the case of 34-year-old writer Mac Tonnies, who updated his blog on Oct. 18, 2009, sent out some public tweets and private messages via Twitter, went to bed and died of cardiac arrhythmia. As word of his death spread via his own blog, Tonnies's small, but devoted audience rushed in to save his online identity. 'Finding solace in a Twitter feed may sound odd,' writes Walker, 'but the idea that Tonnies's friends would revisit and preserve such digital artifacts isn't so different from keeping postcards or other physical ephemera of a deceased friend or loved one.' Unfortunately, how long Mac Tonnies's digital afterlife will remain for his Web friends and parents is still a big question, since it's preserved in a hodge-podge of possibly gone-tomorrow online services for which no one has the passwords. Hoping to fill the need for digital-estate-planning services are companies like Legacy Locker, which are betting that people will increasingly want control over their digital afterlife. 'We're entering a world where we can all leave as much of a legacy as George Bush or Bill Clinton,' says filmmaker-and-friend-of-Tonnies Paul Kimball. 'Maybe that's the ultimate democratization. It gives all of us a chance at immortality.'"

20 of 108 comments (clear)

  1. a bit of an exaggeration ... by tomhudson · · Score: 2

    'We're entering a world where we can all leave as much of a legacy as George Bush or Bill Clinton'

    I hope not!

  2. are you ready for death? by Tom · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That's all beating around the bush. There is no afterlife, so how about the more serious question of coming to terms with someone's death? I is a frightening aspect that doesn't make it easier to cope that thanks to technology, people can still "act" (i.e. post updates) after they died, due to automation etc.

    Does it make it easier or more difficult to cope when the deceased is still around somehow? There's a well-known structure for humans dealing with drastic changes like this, and it has two key parts that matter in this context: The phase where you ignore and fight the truth, i.e. the "he isn't really dead" part. Everyone who griefs has it, some get over it very quickly, some linger on it sometimes for years. The other is the "letting go and re-orienting" phase. Both are presumable more difficult the more old stuff you have around.

    I personally think that our ancestors had a good formula: You were given a year to grief, and everyone would understand. But after that, you'd better be done with griefing and continue on with your own life. It at least gave people a guideline.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:are you ready for death? by slinches · · Score: 2

      I think griefing the deceased would be in terribly poor taste. Think about how it would affect the grieving process of their family members.

      --
      Knowledge Brings Fear
    2. Re:are you ready for death? by nido · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There is no afterlife, so how about the more serious question of coming to terms with someone's death?

      That's just as much a statement of faith as those who believe in the concept of an afterlife.

      Ian Stevenson spent his life investigating cases that were suggestive of reincarnation. I have his books somewhere. He never found proof positive of reincarnation, but the evidence he did find is compelling. As long as it doesn't interfere with one's belief system, that is.

      hth, hand.

      --
      Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
      www.teslabox.com
    3. Re:are you ready for death? by Seumas · · Score: 2

      This reminds me of people who talk about the singularity, which some feel will allow us to essentially live forever through the combination of artificial intelligence and our life history of knowledge and actions. Or, as people like Kurzweil feel, literally actually living forever through medical advancements post-singularity.

      I'm unable to grasp the concept that you somehow have eternal life simply because there is an entity out there with all of your information that behaves as you do. People talk about it as a possibility as if it's some great comfort, but I don't get it. If you made an exact copy of me right now and stood us side by side and then you killed me, I would still endure the pain of death. *I* would cease to exist. There would be a duplicate of me that at best seems exactly like me to the rest of the world. And that benefits the rest of the world (and, in some way, perhaps your remaining loved ones) . . . but *I* have still experienced all the horrible agony of death and non-existence.

      Anyway, the fortunate thing about being human is that time does solve a great deal and over time you come to be able to cope with even the most horrible atrocities. You may grieve a few weeks or months over a lost relationship. You may grieve months or more over the loss of a loved one. You may grieve for *years* over a particularly tragic loss (a child or truly grisly or dire circumstances, for example). But as long as you can keep your head above water, chances are you'll eventually overcome it and move on.

      I think what people would benefit most from understanding is that they barely matter while they're alive, so they're going to matter a fuck of a lot less after they die. You live. You fuck around. You probably breed. You die. All the great and horrible things you did during your life are not going to be remembered by a single soul for long beyond your death. Unless you're Hitler or Manson, maybe.

    4. Re:are you ready for death? by Seumas · · Score: 2

      Faith is a positive assertion of something which can not be proven. You can claim that a jolly race of gnomes lives just under the surface of Mars and have faith that you are right, but my claiming that it isn't so (until evidence and then proof is discovered) is not a claim of 'faith'.

      It's a common tactic for religious or supernatural people who make claims about god and ghosts and paranormal activities and all sorts of goofy stuff to try and gain validity for their beliefs by asserting that the point of logic and common sense is on-par with the value of their own beliefs, but it doesn't sucker anyone.

      One can believe whatever they wish, but I do hope people stop trying to equate "I believe something" with "therefore it is just as valid as anything derived by scientific method".

      I'm not sure what your final comment means, either. His supposed evidence is compelling, unless it interferes with someone's belief system? That doesn't make any sense. That's like saying evidence supporting the theory of evolution is only valid so long as it doesn't clash with someone's belief that the earth is a few thousand years old and that men lived with dinosaurs and rode them around like giant 25-cent K-Mart entrance rides, no?

    5. Re:are you ready for death? by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's just as much a statement of faith as those who believe in the concept of an afterlife.

      Only due to the way I stated it, not in principle. See Russell's Teapot for an extensive treatment. If you want an afterlife, you prove it. You can't rest on that it hasn't been disproven, because I can always make a more outrageous claim that you haven't yet falsified. I could claim right now that there's a Starbucks on Jupiter. Prove me wrong.

      Ian Stevenson spent his life investigating cases that were suggestive of reincarnation. I have his books somewhere. He never found proof positive of reincarnation, but the evidence he did find is compelling. As long as it doesn't interfere with one's belief system, that is.

      I might actually pick it up because I'm interested in such stuff. But the key word is "never found proof positive". For such a dramatic claim that would uproot a lot of science and belief systems, there better be more than some compelling evidence, and it better be independent of belief systems.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  3. Legacy, not afterlife by noidentity · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Are You Ready For the Digital Afterlife? [...] To illustrate how digital afterlives might play out [...] Unfortunately, how long Mac Tonnies's digital afterlife will remain [...] people will increasingly want control over their digital afterlife

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

  4. Re:pron by hedwards · · Score: 2

    If it's that big of a concern, you could always use a dead man switch to delete your encrypted porn stash. Which if it's that embarrassing ought to be encrypted already.

  5. Dead man switch? by davidwr · · Score: 2

    His password to his encrypted stash should be his dead-man switch.

    Speaking of dead-man switches:

    A "close the window and dismount the encrypted drive after 10 minutes of inactivity" background task should do well if he has a fatal heart attack due to over-stimulation.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  6. Compare that with Ancient Egyptians by Tibixe · · Score: 2

    It is interesting that the primary concern about death in many ancient cultures was to ensure that wise and proper advice is given to the deceased for the afterlife.

    The primary concern of modern culture is just the opposite: the impact the deceased person has after his death.

  7. Why digital afterlife? by Anonymous+Cowar · · Score: 2

    Why not do it the old fashioned way with a quality pen (or pencil) and some good acid free paper. Write in your journal every day, you won't be e-famous, but at least your grand kids will get a peek into your life.

  8. Re:Small Perl Script by davidwr · · Score: 2

    Above remark posted by a perl script on behalf of painandgreed. He shall be missed.

    What's that painandgreed? You aren't dead, you were just testing your script? OK, but you better call the Social Security office and your bank, I just informed them of your passing.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  9. Where will it lead? by CityZen · · Score: 2

    First, there was word of mouth. Then there were cave wall drawings and stone carvings. Next, we had books. Then audio recordings, then video.

    These days, you could wear a GPS sensor, body position sensors, body vital sensors, and cameras, and record your entire physical life, except for your inner thoughts.

    Someday, we'll probably be able to record that too.

    Then, people in the future could waste a lot of time just "watching" other people's lives.

    1. Re:Where will it lead? by tomhudson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      First, there was word of mouth. Then there were cave wall drawings and stone carvings. Next, we had books. Then audio recordings, then video.

      These days, you could wear a GPS sensor, body position sensors, body vital sensors, and cameras, and record your entire physical life, except for your inner thoughts.

      Someday, we'll probably be able to record that too.

      Then, people in the future could waste a lot of time just "watching" other people's lives.

      Facebook already provides that ...

  10. Re:pron by durrr · · Score: 2

    The switch to being a dead man should be sufficient to limit any feelings of embarrasment.

  11. as much of a legacy as George Bush or Bill Clinton by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 2

    I pray to Allah, Krishna, Thor, "Bob" and whatever else may be listening that when I go, I don't leave behind me a steaming pile of legacy that matches the output of those two Worthy Gentlemen.

    And I'm pretty sure that my friends and family have more taste than to honor my memory with a fucking Twitter feed.

  12. Re:Leaving your passwords with a trusted source by SpeZek · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All geekery aside, the guy isn't an international spy with plans to the deathstar. I highly doubt that his relatives (or most anyone else) are going to go to all that trouble to get on his facebook wall before he croaks.

    For that matter, I doubt they'd do it when he croaks either. It's called: write down things and put them in your safety deposit box. Whoever becomes your power of attorney should be someone you trust to do what you want done, and they'll have access. No need for schemes. Honestly, "Odds of Compromise"? Your online identity isn't a national treasure.

  13. Re:Leaving your passwords with a trusted source by formfeed · · Score: 2

    Your online identity isn't a national treasure.

    I disagree.

    People used to write letters. And although they were not intended for anyone but the recipient to read, many families kept them. You can go to the Historical society and read immigrant letters from the 1800s. Historians use them to piece together the everyday history as compared to the glorified official reports or the which-president-what-when history.

    And I guess by 2200, historians would be really happy if their research-droid could run its intelligent extraction tools over a couple thousand facebook pages and email accounts from the early 2000s.

  14. Immortality? Horse shit. by hessian · · Score: 2

    You will be remembered by some for exceptional deeds, but even 500 years later, only the most exceptional of the exceptional get remembered. They are remembered only as names, a few books, paintings, symphonies or battles.

    Does this make them immortal? Hell no. They are remembered as icons but not individuals. Nothing preserves the individual in its incarnate form. 500 years after your death, no one who knew you will be alive. You will exist only as a symbol.

    Regarding the afterlife, I think it's time we stop the reductionist bigotry. We can't prove that an afterlife exists or not. We do know this universe is very efficient in the conservation of patterns, that these may exist outside of time, and that these tend to involve a micro::macro mirroring. These are suggestive things.

    To paraphrase X-files, "I want to believe," but most days, I'm just another physicalist here on planet earth hoping for the best neurotransmitter function a corned beef sandwich, two cups of coffee and a little hope can provide.