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Internet Downloading Costs To Rise In Canada

An anonymous reader writes "According to CBC News, 'Surfing and downloading from the internet is about to get more expensive for many Canadians as internet companies Shaw and Primus have announced plans to impose new fees and caps on internet usage. Over the past year, the CRTC, Canada's communication regulator, let Bell and Rogers start charging extra for customers who download a lot of data. ... Primus and Shaw have said they will begin passing on higher fees to their customers beginning Feb. 1. Primus, for example, rents bandwidth on Bell's networks and said Bell is inflating the costs for everyone, including them. 'It's an economic disincentive for internet use,' said Matt Stein, vice-president of network services for Primus. 'It's not meant to recover costs. In fact these charges that Bell has levied are many, many, many times what it costs to actually deliver it.'"

13 of 433 comments (clear)

  1. Don't worry by Haedrian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can always switch to other providers. That's what Capitalism says. Corporations will never get large, agree together for certain things and therefore control the market directly.

    No sir-ee.

    1. Re:Don't worry by Kitkoan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your forgetting, in many places, there isn't a choice. Its either your with company A or with... company A. They are the only option so either you buy their internet or you have no internet.

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    2. Re:Don't worry by RoFLKOPTr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Communism is working great for China. They are becoming a major world power and if I remember right, they have great internet service (might be censored, but still a good speed at a decent for them price).

      Their Communism is working great because our Capitalism is over there injecting billions of dollars into their dead economy. Would you like to live in China (as an average Joe Schmo citizen that's not in a position of particular wealth or power)? I sure as fuck wouldn't. And that there is proof enough that their system doesn't work.

    3. Re:Don't worry by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      France manages to provide excellent universal health care and other social services to its citizens.

      Considering that for a working class family of four here in the US, health care costs take more than 20% of their income (and as they age that number just goes up), I think it's fair to say the French are doing a LOT better. When a 65 year old American coal miner will face another 5 years of going down in the mine, or an unempolyed 59 year old is facing another 11 years of poverty I wonder how many of them will still think they're "doing better than the French".

      And other countries with universal health care are even further along. Somehow, Israel manages to provide universal health care AND have a competitive economy based on innovation. Germany, of course, does even better (and they're one of the most pro-labor, pro-union countries in the world). You go from country to country in northern Europe, and they're way ahead of the US. Why do you think Canada makes it so hard for Americans to immigrate there? Because we'd double their population overnight.

      You know, we hear a lot about all the "new conservatism" in the UK and Germany and Canada, but still, not one of these "new conservative" leaders is crazy enough to even suggest getting rid of universal health care. And they'll continue to retire earlier and work shorter weeks than Americans. Their economies will recover quicker, their standards of living will remain higher than that of the US, their health will be better, and they'll be happier. No wonder they look down on us.

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    4. Re:Don't worry by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think we should switch to Communism, where everything is controlled by the government

      How 'bout instead we switch to whatever it is they've got in Germany, Denmark, Sweden? Why is it that you are only able to see our system vs soviet-style communism?

      Wait... you've never been outside the US, have you? Geez, man, I'm sorry. I shouldn't pick on you since you just don't know any better.

      Never mind.

      --
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    5. Re:Don't worry by farrellj · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sorry, that doesn't work. Bell, Telus and Rogers wholesale bandwidth to most of the other ISPs, who are forced to up their prices as well. There is a virtual monopoly here in Canada, owned by only 3 companies.

      The real reason behind the rate increases is to preserve their monopoly. You see, Bell and Rogers are the largest Sat TV and Cable vendors in Canada, respectively. By capping everyone at 60 Gig, it means that you *cannot* replace their Sat TV or Cable services, since it is ridiculously easy to use that up...for example, the average 720p TV show runs about 700 Megs without commercials. A DVD or better resolution movie, that is, 720p or 1080p can run you easily a couple of Gig in size. The average family watches something like 4 hours of TV a night. So if you watch two TV shows, that is 1.4 Gig, watch three, that's 2.1 Gig. Now imagine you also watch a movie once a week...so that would run you anywhere from 2-5 Gig.

      Working with those numbers, we take the 60 Gig cap, and divide it over 30 days, which gives you around 2 Gig a day, enough to watch 3 shows a night...but if you watch a movie approx. once a week, that adds, assuming at least 4 weeks (4weeks*3.5 Gig=14 Gig a month). You can easily go over your cap, and if any software you use needs patches, or you download a new version of Linux, or World of Warcraft unleashes a huge patch...suddenly your bill could be massive! Imagine if you are coming up on the end of the month, and watch that 4 hours a night of TV via the internet....and on the 23rd of the month, your favourate MMORPG releases a huge patch...you may have to wait until *next month* before you can patch up to run the game, if it's a mandatory patch.

      Bandwidth is cheap. But when you have a monopoly, money is everything. :-(

      --
      CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
    6. Re:Don't worry by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Y'know, there ARE multiple societies on this planet. If you don't like the way ours works, go choose one that fits you best.

      That is patently not true. While there are many nations, most subscribe to a very limited set of recipes for their organization.

      Worse, powerful nations, with US in the forefront, attempt to remodel the weak nations for the benefit of the powerful ones and to make them fit the world-view held dear by the dominant forces in these powerful nations and so the number of choices is actually shrinking.

      If you think that America should make room for whatever new political philosophy rears its ugly head and allow them to live in total separation from all the other political philosophies for the sake of carrying out the "obvious and universal solution" (that combination of words sounds so Orwellian that I can actually hear Wallace Breen saying it right now) and not forcing our "one-size-fits-all, simplistic pet solution down everyone else's throat" then you are completely delusional and need psychiatric attention.

      Your assumptions are telling - I never even mentioned the US - as well as your arrogant, pig-headed belief that anyone opposing your beloved pet idea must be "insane" for only "insane" people would not recognize your self-assessed, infinite genius so vast and brilliant that it makes whole galaxies seem puny and dim and so naturally any choices other than the one you officially and personally anointed with your Divine Insight must be completely deranged ...

      Also, an idea of offering many, many choices and "Orwellian" do not really mix, unless you've been reading books by some completely different George Orwell then the rest of us.

    7. Re:Don't worry by ultranova · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When a 65 year old American coal miner will face another 5 years of going down in the mine, or an unempolyed 59 year old is facing another 11 years of poverty I wonder how many of them will still think they're "doing better than the French".

      All of them. What else can they do? What else can they draw comfort from?

      Delusions are a poor man's opium. Get people to think they're doing better than someone else, and they delude themselves to thinking they're doing well. Make them think that Government and socialism are evil, and you can get them to vote against their own bests interests. And keep feeding them the lifes of rich and famous, and make them think "that could be me someday", and they stop thinking how to improve the lifes of the poor which they are.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  2. Re:Seriously? by Hatta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He's VP of a company that leases from Bell and is having the price increase imposed upon them.

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  3. Root Cause by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The root problem here is the monopoly on infrastructure owned by a company that also provides services. For years now, other competitors offered uncapped DSL using Bell's infrastructure, while Bell offered a fraction of the bandwidth for much greater prices (and hassles.) I guess enough people woke up and started switching away from Bell's native service and jumped to other providers. And naturally, Bell uses their governmental friends to kill the competition, instead of, you know, competing and improving their services. BELL CANADA IS THE WORST COMPANY IN ALL OF CANADA. BELIEVE IT.

    For much of the most densely populated area of Canada, Bell and Rogers own both the infrastructure and provide services to end users. I don't think that should be permitted. Companies should not be able to perform both functions. This is already what happened in our electricity industry in Ontario, when Ontario Hydro was broken up into separate generation and transmission entities.) Bell continues to use the CRTC, which is an impotent and ineffectual organization that seems to be on the leash of the same politicians that decided their friends at Bell would get a monopoly, to prevent other organizations from laying down wires underground in new residential developments.

    This problem would not exist if a real competitive market was in place.

    I am continually surprised by the amount of energy that Bell puts in to creative marketing, customer disservice, finding ways of adding hidden fees, and downright screwing people. If they just put a fraction of their efforts into actually improving their services, they would actually be a competitive company. But wait, they aren't interested in fair competition. Bell just wants passive income through forced usage of their monopolistic network.

    By the way, it bears repeating again, Bell Canada is THE WORST COMPANY IN ALL OF CANADA. I am seriously not joking. Imagine the incompetence, bureaucracy and arrogance of government incorporated into a business. Add the fact that it's their intent to screw you at every turn and "accidentally" add 48 month contracts onto every deal that to which you've never agreed, and for which they somehow lost the audio recording of that CSR's call. That's Bell. They're like government for much of the Canadian population because you pretty much HAVE TO USE THEM because they own the wires.

    *Note for other Canadians: I am fully aware of the other Telus / MTS / and other monopolies outside of Ontario/Quebec.

  4. I wonder... by Kitkoan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How much does this have to do with things like Netflix now being in Canada? Not to mention other things like slowly more and more games being sold digitally for the XBox360, PS3, PC/Mac (Steam, Mac App Store), iTunes movies, ect.. These are all using more and more data and I think they are wanting to capitalise on the digital download bandwagon. They watched Rogers do this and hey, it didn't hurt Rogers so the others are just following suit thinking "If they can do it and make more money for nothing, why not us?" And what is the caps? Anyone can say that only a small percent of users hit these caps, but that could also be based on just a rough estimate of "users typically do basic web surfing and check email, meaning they should only need 5-10 gigs max a month". Helps make gov look the other way by making baseless claims like that.

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  5. And also to remember by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are really two Chinas. The China you hear about is the urban China. It is a few cities across their eastern seaboard mostly. They are quite developed over all, and have a good deal of modern conveniences, though their pollution and other health issues are rather severe. This is actually the minority of China though. The rest of China is rural China where people are still, in a very real way, peasants. They have no medical care, no education, and live very much a subsistence living. This is the reason people will put up with the poor health/environmental conditions in the city, because that is far preferable to rural life.

    China has a massive divide, and as you accurately point out is hardly communist at all. It is a major capitalist system, and in some ways a fascist system in that the government has major stakes in many companies.

    China is, if anything, an example of a failure of communism and a success of capitalism, though to what extent you consider it a success may vary depending on your perspective and priorities.

  6. Regulatory Capture. by headkase · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Regulatory Capture is the name for what is going on here. The USA suffers from it in many industries and Canada is not far behind. Lobbying is how it started and now you have organizations like the RIAA basically writing their own laws. The government is supposed to step in and put their foot down when a provider (especially since the providers are virtual monopolies in most places) begins to charge the "many, many, many" times more rate than their cost. We're being fleeced and our government is complicit in it.

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