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Are 10-11 Hour Programming Days Feasible?

Posted by timothy on from the what-share-of-the-company-is-he-offering? dept.

drc37 writes "My current boss asked me what I thought of asking all employees to work 10-11 hour days until the company is profitable. He read something from Joel Spolsky that said the best way to get new customers is to add new features. Anyways, we are a startup with almost a year live. None of the employees have ownership/stock and all are salary. Salaries are at normal industry rates. What should I say to him when we talk about this again?"

12 of 997 comments (clear)

  1. Bye-bye! by vrmlguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    'Nuff said!

    --
    Nothing for 6-digit uids?
    1. Re:Bye-bye! by DragonWriter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well rested and happy people are far more productive than tired and unhappy people.

      This is certainly true if you measure productivity in value of output per unit of time worked. OTOH, if you have exempt employees, your labor costs don't scale with hours worked, and you may, within a certain range, get more output per unit of labor cost by expanding hours past the point where that would be beneficial in a system of hourly wages.

      On the third(?!) hand, there is going to be a point at which that becomes counterproductive, even in the short-term, and in the long-term it probably isn't good for morale and retention.

      A successful focus would be on motivation and efficiency, not on length of workday.

      But a boss can't just declare motivation and efficiency, whereas a boss can just declare longer workdays. "Motivation and efficiency" require the boss to do work...

    2. Re:Bye-bye! by kinabrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What *will* happen is that those who can get better jobs(the best workers) will, and the people who will be left will be the worst and least-qualified workers.

      If the management are thinking up brilliant ideas like this, it would be a good idea to get your résumé to as many other potential employers as possible.

    3. Re:Bye-bye! by justin12345 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That was my exact thought as well. Most companies fail. In this guy's case they are just salaried employees without stock, they don't even have a vested interest in the company succeeding. Asking programmers (or anyone for that matter) to work 11 hours a day just to keep their job is just a good way to get rid of your employees.

      Also, as far as actual productivity goes: in my experience 6 hours of actual work is pushing it for a programmer. Sure they show up for a full day, but after a certain point the brain burns out and they're posting on slashdot instead of coding, or they are making a lot of mistakes.

      There is a reason that a lot of start ups spent a lot of money on game rooms and making their employees happy and comfortable. I'd rather have 4 good hours of a programmer at his absolute best then 8 hours of mediocrity.

      --
      Cool art gallery, if you're into that sort of thing.
    4. Re:Bye-bye! by syousef · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Boss is asking his opinion, ergo boss apparently cares enough to not just slam people over the head with his authority-stick. I could think of far worse people to work for. OP should be explaining to him the downsides of the plan, and perhaps suggesting better ways of achieving the desired goal - not pulling the pin and fucking off at the high-port.

      No, the boss is a manager of people but does not understand that working them into the ground for a sustained period isn't going to save the company. He is either desperate or stupid or both. In any case a manager of software developers that does not know the answer to this question is an amateur at best and has no business running a company.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    5. Re:Bye-bye! by c6gunner · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'll take an amateur who's willing to learn over a "professional" who thinks he's infallible, any day.

    6. Re:Bye-bye! by byte+twine · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, and willingly gave his workers health benefits so he could sell more ambulances...

      Oh, right, he did none of those things. You were born to a 40 hour work week because generations of workers fought for it. They fought for Sunday off, they fought for the 10-hour workday, and they fought for the 40 hour work week. Thank the workers who organized and fought in unions and gained this victory. Celebrate it and remember the struggle on May Day.

  2. Don't Say Anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Start your job hunt now.

  3. they suck and you will get burned out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They suck and you will get burned out.

    You will also write shitty code, which will cost more to maintain.

    Market's good, bail asap.

  4. too vague of a timeline by anjilslaire · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "until the company is profitable" is way too vague to work like that.

    --
    Need more useless stuff to read on teh internetz?
  5. Yes they are feasible. by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My company has been working 12 hour days for 18 months. I don't think they are feasible in a normal economy (people would leave). I don't think they are feasible for too much longer (now having to bring in outside resources for the first time-- people are fully loaded).

    However, they are providing us high quality lunch and dinner at our desks. The crew is mostly senior resources (35 to 50 years old) with 12+ years experience). They did this back in 1995-2000 and had a hard time hiring anyone for several years.

    The quality is there in my opinion. SO mostly we are just giving up personal lives. I do not watch much TV any more. Every 4 or 5 weeks we get a week or two of 10 hour days as a break. Dinner is not provided those days.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  6. I did the 80 hour work week by Aronacus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I used to work as a Field Service Computer Technician for a Large Corporation. We had Mandatory unpaid overtime and a 60-80 hour week was the norm. I was 23 when I started that job and when I left at 27 I was a dead man. High Blood Pressure, Borderline Diabetes, High Cholesterol. My Doctor had me on a stack of drugs just to keep me going and warned me if I kept this up I'd be dead in 5-10 years. I worked and worked and one day my boss pulled me aside and said "you can't take that vacation! You are too important to your Territory. I was shocked. He told me I'd lose my job if I took the Vacation. Long Story short I took my vacation. I posted my Resume and I got out of there. I work for a new company where we work 35 hour weeks. get paid lots more money and I sit at a Desk most of the day. Here's the best part. Of all the medication I was on about 7 prescriptions I now only take 1. With all the Free time I was able to get Married and have a good life. I now know about the Dangers involved in pulling 60-80 hour weeks. Don't be stupid. No jobs worth the bull shit.