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How Europe Will Lower Emissions — Self Driving Cars

thecarchik writes "Scientists in Europe are working closely with industry and government as part of a new initiative called SARTRE (SAfe Road TRains for the Environment), which hopes to develop self-driving technology that will allow vehicles to drive autonomously in long road trains on the highway. The team behind SARTRE has now conducted its first real world test, using a sole Volvo S60 sedan that followed a lead truck around the automaker's test facility near Gothenburg, Sweden. In the video, the driver is free to take his eyes off the road and his hands off the wheel. In fact, he uses neither his hands nor feet during the test. Subsequent phases of the work will be carried out in 2011, and early 2012 will see the concept demonstrated on a five-vehicle road train with strategies handling interaction with other road users."

39 of 317 comments (clear)

  1. If I were that guy by srussia · · Score: 4, Funny

    I would have had an existential crisis.

    --
    Set your phasers on "funky"!
  2. Should've called it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Safe Automobile Trains Is Reducing Emissions

  3. No. Way. by Scareduck · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Driving is fun. Try reading the ads for cars some time.

    If people wanted to be on a train in Europe, they have plenty of opportunities to do so.

    --

    Dog is my co-pilot.

    1. Re:No. Way. by Kokuyo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That is completely beside the point.

      Driving is fun when you're out driving for fun. But the daily commute is annoying and tedious. Especially with high traffic and traffic jams, such a system could free a lot of time for the occupant of the car.

      On top of that, the risk of collision through inattention would be lowered. All around a good idea and not comparable to actual trains, because the moment you leave the highway, I'd assume, you'd be in control again and free to travel everywhere and not just where the buses and trains go.

      Basically, this takes the pros from trains and replaces the cons of personal travel with them.

      And nobody said you couldn't keep driving yourself on a leisure cruise.

    2. Re:No. Way. by mrvan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Did you ever notice how car ads always take place on small roads in beautiful mountainous territory?

      Driving cars on the highway through flat country is pretty boring; driving cars on a highway in traffic through the same flat country twice a day for a couple years on end is downright tedious.

      I think driving is incredibly fun --- through european cities and over small roads in the countryside. I would love to be able to drive to the highway, read the newspaper for half an hour, and take control again at the exit.

    3. Re:No. Way. by Zouden · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's why the lead driver is a professional in a special vehicle.

      --
      "A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
    4. Re:No. Way. by Zouden · · Score: 2

      That is incorrect. Only certain vehicles can be lead vehicles. In the video it's a truck, and in the article it's a bus. SATRE has always stated that a professional driver will be in the lead.

      How the driver gets paid is a different question, though.

      --
      "A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
    5. Re:No. Way. by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 2

      Such solutions have been proposed many times. The main problem appear to be economic: You need a lot of those rails before they are interesting. So it's a big investment, and when it is build, will enough people actually use it?

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    6. Re:No. Way. by SolitaryMan · · Score: 2

      This is the problem with all automation: you make the amount of incidents dramatically smaller, but when something goes wrong, it is a complete disaster.

      I think we (as humanity) have accepted this idea long ago.

      --
      May Peace Prevail On Earth
    7. Re:No. Way. by ipwndk · · Score: 2

      I dislike driving. I commute in a metropolis, where there are no parking and constant queues. Currently I therefore only use trains, busses and metros. However, I'd like my own car such that I can choose my own destinations and have some privacy. But sitting still so much, waiting in queues, and figuring out how to navigate in crowded multilane streets puts me off this. I'd use this most definitely.

      --
      01 REDEFINE REALITY.
    8. Re:No. Way. by xaxa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I guess that the large US cities are much the same? We've not driven there, yet. Actually, we've hardly even visited the country yet (no history and no unique wildlife, and that's what we travel for).

      That's not true -- the US obviously joined modern civilisation a lot later, but there are prehistoric settlements to see (I liked this place), and on the east coast there's a little stuff from the 17th century.

      I don't know so much about wildlife, but I'd not see chipmunks, raccoons or skunks before. I didn't see any bears.

      Some of the national parks are excellent, for instance Yellowstone, Yosemite, Death Valley, Sequoia, ... and all the rest, probably; I've been to seven or eight, and all were worth visiting.

      Glasgow is the closest to an American city for driving that I know of in Europe -- the motorways cut straight through the middle. The difference is in the US the motorway might be 5+ lanes on each side going through the city and everyone's more relaxed -- there's less overtaking and less difference in speed between any two vehicles. The metropolitan area of Glasgow has 2.5M people, the motorways are 3+3 lanes. Albuquerque has a population of less than 1M, the interstate road is 6+6. I doubt there's anywhere cheap to park in the middle of Glasgow, but there's good public transport and a park+ride service. A car is unlikely to be a necessity in any European town (though it may save time, you could manage without it). That's not possible in much of the US, they've built stuff too far apart.

    9. Re:No. Way. by HungryHobo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not all that energy efficient

      http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/images/2008/08/04/transenergy.png

      My first conclusion is that we would get more efficient by pushing
      small, fuel efficient vehicles instead of pushing transit, and at
      a lower cost.

      A full bus or trainload of people is more efficient than private cars,
      sometimes quite a bit more so. But transit systems never consist
      of nothing but full vehicles. They run most of their day with light
      loads. The above calculations came from figures citing the
      average city bus holding 9 passengers, and the average train (light
      or heavy) holds 22. If that seems low, remember that every packed
      train at rush hour tends to mean a near empty train returning down
      the track.

      Transit vehicles also tend to stop and start a lot, which eats
      a lot of energy, even with regenerative braking. And most
      transit vehicles are just plain heavy, and not very aerodynamic.
      Indeed, you'll see tables in the DoE reports that show that over the past 30 years,
      private cars have gotten 30% more efficient, while buses have
      gotten 60% less efficient and trains about 25% worse. The
      market and government regulations have driven efforts to make cars
      more efficient, while transit vehicles have actually worsened.

      In order to get people to ride transit, you must offer frequent
      service, all day long. They want to know they have the freedom to leave at
      different times. But that means emptier vehicles outside of
      rush hour. You've all seen those huge empty vehicles go by, you just
      haven't thought of how anti-green they were. It would be better
      if off-hours transit was done by much smaller vehicles, but that
      implies too much capital cost -- no transit agency will buy enough
      equipment for peak times and then buy a second set of equipment for
      light demand periods.

    10. Re:No. Way. by FatAlb3rt · · Score: 2

      He gets paid by the company that he's transporting for - seriously, why can't we re-purpose the long haul truckers? He's already a professional driver. Give him a sticker on the back that says he's road train compliant.

      Or pay by the mile? There's not a large leap in tech there since our smartphones will be integrated with the car soon enough. Join a private road train network, GPS keeps track of distance, pay up electronically when you get off the train.... I drive the family 1000 miles away twice a year - I'd pay $50 each way so that I can eat/sleep/not pay attention for 15 hrs straight.

    11. Re:No. Way. by CheerfulMacFanboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Only certain vehicles can be lead vehicles.

      At least until the system is cracked. There must be all kinds of fun things you can do if you spoof it.

      Yeah, you can also throw a washing machine from your pickup on the highway. No need to spoof anything.

      --
      Fandroids hate facts.
    12. Re:No. Way. by somersault · · Score: 2

      Not quite the same as taking charge of a construction convoy and using it to surround and trap a government official with very large and heavy vehicles, before burying him alive with the cement from your captured cement truck.

      --
      which is totally what she said
  4. Requires revisions by Adambomb · · Score: 5, Funny

    When questioned about trouble with their algorithms when encountering other cars, developers replied "Hell is other vehicles"

    --
    Ice Cream has no bones.
  5. Just stop it by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 2

    Stop bolting technology onto a 19th century design. How about designing something from the ground up that solves the issues of our time ? We already have something that allows you to do other things while traveling, it's called a train.

    --
    If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    1. Re:Just stop it by Kokuyo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Excuse me for being blunt, but you're an idiot.

      Switzerland has one of the best public transportation systems I am aware of. And still, a 45 minute commute by car can often turn into 1.5h or more on public transportation, including standing around in the cold in winter for any amounts of time.

      If you live in a city and work there, too, then yes, public transportation is a great thing. I wouldn't use my car to get to work there either. But believe it or not, even with all the congestion around Zurich, it was still much faster to drive when I had to back in the days.

      Frankly, everyone else can go fuck themselves if they believe I'd sacrifice between one and three hours every day because they can't fix the society so they expect me to fix their problems for them.

      Because, make no mistake, using public transportation is very stressful for me and don't even get me started on doing something productive with that time. Because you can't. If you have to change transportation every 10 to thirty minutes, you just CAN'T concentrate on something of consequence. Especially with all the noise that goes on around you. I know, I've tried for four long years.

      Now that might be different if you're travelling first class. But, keeping the lack of flexibility in mind (because owning a car AND using public transportation is economic bullshit), public transportation becomes very, very expensive all of a sudden.

      So I'd like to ask you to shut up and stop applying your situation to everybody else. Just because YOU can be happy and content with public transportation does not mean everybody else can.

    2. Re:Just stop it by k8to · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Translation: I live too far away from my job by choice, and the unavoidable commuting overhead makes me uncontrollably angry.

      --
      -josh
    3. Re:Just stop it by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 2

      Well, most families have 2 working people (at least in the civilized world), which means that usually one of them have half an hour drive time or more (for me, around 30 km). With public transportation, that is about 50 minutes, which does not make me "uncontrollably angry", but I wouldn't mind seeing it reduced, either.

      --
      Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
    4. Re:Just stop it by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 2

      So I'd like to ask you to shut up and stop applying your situation to everybody else. Just because YOU can be happy and content with public transportation does not mean everybody else can.

      Politeness counts, the above sentence could apply just as well to you as it does to me substituting car for public transport.

      You seem to have missed my main point, which wasn't about public transport but the fact we are hacking things onto an ancient design instead of truly innovating. We've had these pipe dreams of "robotic cars" for decades and they belong in the same category as flying cars: fun sci-fi but wildly unpractical. Fact is automobile travel is becoming impractical in a lot of places (no, not everywhere) , collapsing under the weight of its own popularity. Shifting the chairs on the deck of the Titanic isn't going to help. We need real original thinking.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    5. Re:Just stop it by Kokuyo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      See? Fix the society first. This is exactly what I meant.

      Switzerland does not have a real estate market as flexible as America. Once you've bought a home, you're likely going to stay there for a few decades if not your whole life.

      Do you expect BOTH me and my wife to find jobs near our home (or vice versa) and keep them for the rest of our lives? Do you truly think that's a realistic outlook on life?

      It doesn't matter whether you think I'm just bitching around. Fact is, a lot of people have to deal with these questions. If you don't, great for you. We do. So you'll have to excuse us for making different decisions than you do.

      I am of the opinion that bending over backwards for some concept like environmentalism is pretty stupid. If we, as a society, want to reach certain goals (clean environment) then we need to implement global changes that will make it easier for us to achieve those. Not just demand everyone buckle down and 'do their part'. Because then someone has to define what this 'part' is and you can bet your sweet ass it's going to be defined by people who aren't inconvenienced by what they define.

    6. Re:Just stop it by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

      When I use public transportation I need an hour in the train and 30 minutes of walking (or 10 minutes bus) to arrive at the office. In a car the time is reduced to 30 minutes. I still prefer public transportation because the traffic is stressful and the time behind the steering wheel is wasted. When I use the public transportation I usually read some book and half an hour of walking has done wonders to my health. I say, to hell with cars.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    7. Re:Just stop it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Impressively polite rejoinder :-)

      However, I disagree with your premise - road trains ARE an example of innovative thinking.

      Coming up with a likely-to-be-practical transportation system of the future isn't that difficult. There are several personal-rapid-transport proposals around that would probably work well if you were building a new city from scratch.

      The hard part is the TRANSITION, and building a new system while we're still using the old. Road trains are an excellent transition technology.

    8. Re:Just stop it by HungryHobo · · Score: 2

      The problems with trains and other public transport is that they get you from where you aren't to where you don't actually want to go.
      A couple of years ago I got stuck doing a weekly commute which by car took two and a half hours.
      that same trip took 9 hours by train.... if I was lucky.
      Unfortunatly I didn't have a car so most of the time I was stuck with the bus/train option which was beyond terrible.

      It boiled down to the problem that while I essentially wanted to go about 100 miles south in order to go via public transport I had to first go 50 miles north and then it overshot my destinitaion in a similar manner at the other end.Nothing even close to a direct option.

      If you're lucky enough to live near a station and your destination is near a station at the other end then it's the best thing ever.
      if on the other hand you're like most of humanity and don't have such a nice arrangement remember to include the hours sitting at a station waiting for the next train, the slogs across town in the pissing rain and the times when the bus or train just sails on by because it's already full and since it's the last bus you're going to have to turn around and travel for another few hours to get back for the night or call an extremely expensive taxi.

      Public transport is the absolute pits unless you have a car handy and ready to be used for all those trips for which public transport is awful.

  6. how does this help? by Nineteen-Delta · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I cant see how this helps drive down emissions if all the people of Europe - and the world for that matter start driving everywhere, whereas before they were too old, too young, are disqualified, or hadn't passd their test. If the 50% of people who don't drive now take to the roads, dosn't that mean twice as many cars on them? Besides, if the car's on autopilot, why not get in and be driven 1,000 miles instead af a couple of hundred- that's already five times the journey length!

    1. Re:how does this help? by wagnerrp · · Score: 2

      At low speeds, rolling friction from the tires is the primary draw on the engine. At highway speeds, aerodynamic drag very rapidly overtakes friction. By drafting one car inches from the next, the drag on each drops tremendously. This system could easily drop highway fuel consumption in half, as well as increase the range electric vehicles can travel before having to kick in their generator.

      The idea isn't that everyone will start driving everywhere on their own, but rather that the people who already are driving will do so much more economically.

  7. Lower emissions? by token0 · · Score: 2

    Self driving cars, and all they can think of is lower emissions? 1. I don't really see how it could significantly affect emissions. 2. why is it that every project has to have "a better environment" as it's main goal? I don't deny global warming, but what is being done about it is crazy.

    1. Re:Lower emissions? by Carewolf · · Score: 2

      In this case closer driving reduces wind resistance, but without the risk of mass collisions that happens if humans try it. ..and stop being in denial

    2. Re:Lower emissions? by Drasil · · Score: 2

      I don't deny global warming, but what is being done about it is crazy.

      Personally I think it's what's not being done about it that's crazy.

      Back on topic: I agree that a rethink of personal transportation is required. I think it is more important to rethink the things that cause us to need or want cars. Living in a different town from one's workplace is rarely if ever required. The centralisation of services that widespread car ownership has permitted (think malls or retail parks) is amongst the myriad of reasons we feel we need cars. Research like this is useful and worth while, but as others have pointed out what's really needed is a more fundamental rethink. I'd like to see us reordering our societies and lives in such a way that we don't need cars.

  8. Automation by MerlinTheWizard · · Score: 2

    The human species seems to be oddly obsessed with automating everything it can think of - and of course, it's always supposed to be in a good cause. Since there was much talk about commuting, why don't we go a step further and finish what we already started long ago: automate every possible kind of work humans can do. Then we won't need to commute anymore and the work environment should be much more efficient too. Thus, lower emissions. Then we can just sit around and maybe push one button or two every once in a while. But then, we might get very fat in the long run, if we just do nothing. And our own production of CO2 and other nasty gases ( ;) ) might eventually be a huge problem. Then again, maybe at this point, we won't need to exist at all anymore. Looks like a bright future, if you ask me.

    1. Re:Automation by mijelh · · Score: 2

      We are talking about automating an annoying process here (commuting), so you can do more productive things with your life. Nobody says we should automate tennis, handball, or rock concerts (actually, we pay to see the real thing, and not an automated copy -playback-).
      Besides, I don't understand your point of us "not needing to exist at all anymore". Do you "need" to exist NOW ?.

  9. Re:higher emissions by Khamura · · Score: 2

    It's not a move from trains to cars, but rather from highly congested highways full of cars controlled by people (who are, as we know, liable to cause traffic jams just by stepping on the brake at the wrong moment) to a more-or-less fluidly moving highway full of cars controlled by the equivalent of a guide beam, hopefully maintaining optimal positioning and speed.

    --
    Graduate of the LeRoy Funkified Badass School of Soul.
  10. Re:"leaving the train" would be difficult by ctid · · Score: 2

    I would envisage that this would be integrated with satellite navigation. You wouldn't say, "I want to leave the train now", you'd say "I want to leave at junction 12". Not much fun if you need a the toilet!

    --
    Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
  11. What the future has in store by Anubis+IV · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think it's pretty obvious that technologies along these lines (self-piloting automobiles) are the way of the future. The big question is how do we make the leap from where we are now to where we want to be? Clearly, the ideal would be to have the autonomous systems able to react and work around existing drivers on the road, but I have a feeling that it won't be too long before systems like these ones are incentivized in some way so that the transition is both easier and safer.

    For instance, carpool lanes in some locations already permit motorists driving greener cars to use the lane, even if they're alone. 10, 15, or 20 years from now, whenever this technology finally matures and starts to enter the consumer market, the same sort of thing will likely be applied. We'll simply see the autonomous systems engaged whenever motorists enter a specific lane dedicated to their use. It allows manufacturers to prove that the technology works, instills confidence in it among drivers, gives them obvious benefits for choosing it, and can be used as a transition phase to having roads that are occupied predominately by self-driving vehicles. Over time, what began as a luxury will become a standard feature, just as has happened dozens or hundreds of other times in the industry, and soon enough, all new cars will be equipped with the system. Not long after that, legislation will require it of all street-legal cars.

    In the long term, cars driven by actual people will be in the minority, and will likely be barred from driving on regular roads. They'll likely be regulated and restricted to only operating in specific places (e.g. enthusiast race tracks, special lanes in traffic, etc.). I'm not suggesting I like this, mind you, but I have been trying to figure out how a transition from piloted to pilotless automobiles would work and what it would look like once it was completed. The only result I can see is that piloted cars get relegated to a role not at all unlike that of horses today: used by enthusiasts in specific locations and circumstances, but not for general use in travel and transportation.

  12. Don't blame the driver by MrEricSir · · Score: 2

    My car is condemned to be free; because once thrown into the world, it is responsible for everything it does.

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
  13. Re:Less Is More by EsbenMoseHansen · · Score: 2

    Sure, but what about the buzz? I often overhear when someone is doing something interesting and/or wrong, and can instantly intervene. Also, whenever someone swears at something it is quite possible someone will say: Just do this or that, and your problem will go away. It is that sort of communication that I think is lost when telecommuting.

    --
    Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
  14. Driving well DOES save gas by clonan · · Score: 2

    I just did a quick search on google and pulled up an Edmunds.com article on efficient driving. That article says that your personal driving habits can cost you up to a 37% reduction in milleage. So take a few million drivers and reduce the fuel usage by 37% and tell me it doesn't matter...

  15. This is just pure ignorance by sean.peters · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yeah, probably shouldn't feed the trolls, but:

    We've not driven there, yet. Actually, we've hardly even visited the country yet (no history and no unique wildlife, and that's what we travel for).

    Regarding history - just as a quick example, we had this little thing called the Civil War. It went on all over the continent for a period of years and killed millions of people. In the process, a large number of very colorful and interesting figures appeared on the scene, and a number of innovations in warfare were developed. The war settled a number of lingering political issues left over from the American Revolution, abolished the evil of slavery, and arguably set the stage for later American domination of the international scene.

    History: just because ours doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean we don't have any.

    Your statement with respect to wildlife, if possible, is even more ludicrous. A huge proportion of North American birds is made up of species not found in Europe. There are numerous mammal, reptile, and amphibian species found here that exist nowhere else. To claim there's no unique wildlife is just plain dumb.

    Hey, don't get me wrong - if you'd rather visit Reykjavik, knock yourself out. But let's not pretend that there's nothing worth seeing in the US.