Slashdot Mirror


Teachers Back Away From Evolution In Class

RedEaredSlider writes "A study (abstract) from Penn State shows that a lot of teachers — some 60 percent — are reluctant to teach evolutionary theory in the classroom either because they fear controversy or they just aren't comfortable with the material (as not every biology teacher was a science major). It shows the importance, the authors say, of training teachers well before they step into the class."

21 of 947 comments (clear)

  1. America has jumped the shark by Snaller · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If even the teachers aren't educated enough to understand this - what hope is there for the rest.

    --
    If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
    1. Re:America has jumped the shark by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Insightful

      supply and demand

      anyone with a strong science degree is making more money somewhere other than teaching. so either we have to pay science teachers more, or we need to accept that science isn't being taught by science majors. take your pick

      it's easy to demand higher standards. it's hard to think it through and figure out how to make that happen

      and i will bet you a GNP that every other country has the same problem

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    2. Re:America has jumped the shark by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 5, Informative

      If even the teachers aren't educated enough to understand this - what hope is there for the rest.

      That's not what TFA really says. TFS is somewhat misleading. Teachers aren't unprepared, they're uncomfortable. And while it doesn't say exactly why they're uncomfortable, I'd wager they're more afraid of one set of parents than the other.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    3. Re:America has jumped the shark by anandrajan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My wife is a middle/high school teacher and is teaching evolution in 8th grade as we speak. The other day, a student confronted her in class and said, "You may have come from a monkey but I certainly didn't." This is a charter school here in Gainesville, FL (where we also try burning Qurans every once in a while).

      You would think that the situation is better in a magnet school. Nope. In one of the magnet schools here, the teacher flat out refused to teach evolution claiming that it went against her beliefs.

      --
      Anand Rangarajan anand@cise.ufl.edu
    4. Re:America has jumped the shark by geekoid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Please never have that conversation, it only hurts. There are far better ways t deal with it and a confrontational manner will only have them dig their heels into the ground. At that age, it could very well be the last opportunity for those people to get it right.

      There are far better answers, from 'That's not what evolution says' to 'That's not where the science leads us.'

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:America has jumped the shark by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The way to deal with it is to tell the student that whether or not they accept evolution, the overwhelming majority of scientists do, and since this is a science class, it's what scientists accept that will be taught. You will be graded on how well you understand the information, not on whether or not you believe it.

      As to any teacher who doesn't teach the curriculum, they should simply be fired. They, like the above hypothetical creationist student, are not required to believe any of it, but they are required to teach actual science.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  2. What an Absolutely Clueless Response by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How can one be a Biology teacher without having a major in at least one of the sciences? Sad. Schools ought to demote these persons to HomeEc or English, and hire some actual degreed science majors to do the teaching.

    Maybe they can't do that because of Union rules.

    Wow. It's pretty evident you don't understand what's happening in schools in America.

    Having dated a couple teachers, let me explain to you how it works. If you're a teacher (and I'm talking grade school or high school) you get shit on. You don't get paid shit and your 'customer' treats you like shit. What's worse is that you cannot refuse your customer and it's your duty to make sure no child is left behind.

    So let's say you get a degree in biology. Any lab job or anything else will pay much better right off the bat than a teaching position in grade or high school. Why anybody would get a degree in education is beyond me. Most teachers I think are psychology or sociology majors that, if they teach something like biology, have taken some specialized courses in teaching that material. Not actual high level biology coursework -- because they're not teaching that to students.

    Your attempt to blame this on the unions amuses me. Public schools don't make money. That's not what they're there for. They're not some corporation or car manufacturer, they're a public utility that provides a human right to education. As such when a school is operating in the red, it would normally be really tempting to just cut teacher's wages. The unions are there to prevent crap like that from happening. Furthermore, they can't walk away from a customer so really bad interactions occur. And the unions are there to make sure that the teachers have the appropriate representation and responses. Schools don't compete with each other for the best students like a manufacturer competes for customers. The same can be said of hospitals and nursing unions. I don't know how a union would make sure that you can't teach Biology without being a Biology major.

    The fact is that teachers have a really crappy job, they don't get paid much and that's why you don't see someone graduating with a Masters of Science in physics to go teach fourth graders science. Maybe you pay extra to send your kid to a magnate school or some private school where they guarantee that the teachers are such distinguished individuals but certainly not a public schools and until you're willing to pay a lot more in taxes to make those jobs desirable to such a graduate, I'd shut up.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:What an Absolutely Clueless Response by Mr.Intel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Having dated a couple teachers, let me explain to you how it works.

      Being married to a degreed High School biology teacher, let me explain how it works. This is with the caveat that it only applies to the two school districts she has worked in.

      My wife is not tenured, which in our district and state means teaching for five years while passing all proficiency checks. That means she has to watch her butt and toe the line very carefully. Which means she is always the first on the list when the district is cutting budgets (which they have been doing every year since she started teaching in this district). Luckily for her, she is an amazing teacher (yeah, I'm biased, but her peers and supervisors agree) and she still has a job.

      In our district, the teachers are responsible for making sure students are "engaged in learning" from "bell to bell". They must provide students every opportunity to pass their classes, which translates into students retaking tests as many times as they want, having as much time as they want to turn in assignments, and having the option of changing classes willy-nilly if they don't like the teacher/subject. Basically, the entire school district bends backwards for every single student no matter what little johnny or little betty do in class. There is no recourse for behavior problems and often the first step (calling the parent) results in the parent accusing the teacher of "not understanding" their child's needs or the teacher must obviously be doing something wrong. That's assuming that my wife can even get a hold of a parent. Most kids are either "independent", living with extended family, have only one parent and that parent works three jobs, or if by some miracle both parents are at home, they are drugged/stoned out of their minds and it's a wonder the kid comes to school at all.

      Bottom line: Teachers are charged with educating a public that is disengaged with learning. Parents are hostile, administration is hog tied by budget and legislation and no one seems to understand one basic truth: It's not the teacher's job to force kids to learn. It's their job to teach those who want to learn. If johnny's mom got sent to jail for the third time and he has to live with his meth-addict uncle, then johnny doesn't care about extracting DNA from chicken livers or charting the energy of a falling mass. If anyone is to blame for the sad state of education in America, it the parents that need to take the blame. But that won't happen because the parents are the tax payers and the voters. How do you hold them accountable?

      --
      ASCII tastes bad dude.
      Binary it is then.
  3. Science is being bullied by captainpanic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's ridiculous, but science is being bullied in our Western democracies...

    There are fights about the greenhouse gas, about evolution, and several other topics... and if teachers say something about that, they are said to choose a side and teachers should be politically neutral.

    That, of course, is ridiculous. If teachers can no longer teach science, because some theories (which have a lot of evidence) might undermine the political course set by our Great Leaders or because they might upset certain religious people (science always does that), then we might as well close our schools.

    1. Re:Science is being bullied by Vahokif · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Speak for your own democracy.

    2. Re:Science is being bullied by omglolbah · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "It's ridiculous, but science is being bullied in the US..."

      There fixed that for ya.

      Here in Norway... if a teacher were to teach creationism in a biology class they would most likely be fired...
      Religious theories and differing views like creationism and FSM (flying spaggeti monster) would most likely be covered in a class covering religion.
      Before everyone goes batshit:
      The classes covering religion and alternate belief systems are structured around facts about said groups. Like pillars of faith, holy texts and history about the origins of the religions. It has been decided long ago here that it is essential for our population to at least have a minimum of information about such issues as it makes society a whole lot less ignorant and hateful.

      Both my parents are teachers and teach sciences. There is the occational student with anal parents making demands but they usually shut up after being introduced to the actual content of the lessons... If they continue and disrupt the education more likely than not a "letter of concern" would be sent to child services. (Routine thing in schools here, to help discover unhealthy home environments and abuse etc).

      Amusingly my father has a muslim student and he attended the Advent christian protestant ceremony before christmas. He was given a letter to be signed by his parents if they wanted him excused from it but their reply was simply "It doesnt matter, he has his own belief and experiencing the christian ceremony wont harm and might be useful for him". The kid had no issue and put it more bluntly "I dont believe in any of it anyway so why make a fuss?".

      Less BS and more common sense please!

  4. Teachers want to keep their jobs! by Matt_Bennett · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Teachers don't want to get fired! I live near Austin, TX and the Austin Independent School District just announced plans to lay off 450 teachers next year due to budget cuts. Administrators will be looking to anything to give them an excuse to fire a teacher- for cause: no unemployment... Bonus! The problem lies in the extremely vocal minority of parents that protest (generally anything that falls outside of their narrowly defined set of "values"). They get the administrator's attention, and the teacher gets fired. When there is a need to re-hire, there are plenty of underqualified Teach-for-America supplied teachers (who, as new teachers, get paid much less). While the TFA teachers may be qualified on the subject matter, they don't have much basis on *Teaching* the subject matter- an entirely different skill. Don't worry, most of the TFA teachers get a hard dose of reality (low pay, no respect, long hours) and quit teaching in a few years.

    [my wife is a teacher (15 years teaching), she's just glad she's got an engineer husband to support her teaching habit... I'm just an enabler, I guess]

    1. Re:Teachers want to keep their jobs! by supermank17 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That's depressingly true. My wife is a teacher, and when she gave out report cards at the end of the semester, the administration censored all of the negative comments in them because they were afraid of parent backlash (for elementary kids!). She was upset at the time, because they were things the kids genuinely needed to work on, but now she's somewhat relieved; another, more senior teacher was able to keep her negative comments intact, and now is dealing with irate parents who want her fired. This is all because their children have comments saying they have issues with behavior in class, or need to work on their math skills, on their ELEMENTARY School record. It's just bizarre.
      There's a reason the average teacher only works 6 years, and its not the children or administration that are the (main) problem.

  5. Re:Summary wrong, not so bleak by gardyloo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You call that "not so bleak"? When ~72% of teachers actually give sky-daddy-dunnit some credence in a science classroom? Holy shit.

  6. Credentials. by saintlupus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's almost like shuttling weak students who are afraid of math and science into teacher training programs was a BAD idea.

    (Disclaimer: I'm employed by a college with a tremendous population of education majors.)

  7. Re:Summary wrong, not so bleak by cptdondo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    +1. I find that terrifying. If we're teaching our kids that a scientific theory, which all about validating a logical chain of though based on observation, and which, by definition, must make valid predictions about the world around us, and a creation myth are the same, then we're screwed.

    Don't get me wrong, I like creation myths; some are absolutely wonderful. And on that score, biblical creationism and ID come in at the lowest end of the creative scale; as creative writing I'd give them a C-.

    Evolution works because it can make predictions about the gaps in our knowledge. It's called a "theory" because that's the tag scientists picked early on. We should not be teaching that a "scientific theory" and "something I made up while sitting on the crapper and reading the comics" have equal validity - even by omission.

  8. Poor Teacher Compensation by mathmathrevolution · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The reason we have few competent teachers is simple: Education is one of the most poorly compensated professions in the USA and has generally atrocious working conditions. Education attracts many teachers, but most last less than 2 years on the job before switching professions. Very few competent people are willing to grind away their soul day-in, day-out for pennies. At the same time, the cost for a college degree and certification is skyrocketing. It just doesn't make economic sense to be a teacher.

    The public has an incredibly patronizing attitude that teachers should accept miserable accept out of the goodness of their heart. That attitude worked back when women faced systematic artificial barriers in most other professions. In our grandparents generation, we were effectively subsidizing our education system by restricting opportunities for women. That was true in the 60s. It's not true now. Women are competing in every profession, and now education salaries must also compete.

    Blaming the Unions is a popular game, but they are not the central problem. If schools seriously want the top college grads to go into education, then obviously they need to compete with other opportunities that top college grads are offered. But you can't offer people a starting salary of $33,227 and then bitch and moan when your top applicants are C students from state universities. The Unions are basically the only force keeping teacher salaries competitive. States with a heavily unionized teacher work-force are better compensated and, unsurprisingly, produce better results

  9. Show us the evidence of evolution! by Theovon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've spent many years learing about evolutionary theory. It seems quite intuitive to me. But it isn't intuitive to many people because it's unlike anything they observe normally. Among scientists, evolution isn't controvercial, but among others, it is. Therefore, others need more convincing. But telling them to "just believe because you're an idiot if you don't" is just religion. To most people, evolution vs. something else is just a war between factions. There's no science in it. And while religion remains relatively stable, evolutionary theory keeps changing; what's "true" one day is "false" the next. The way that evolution is taught is partly responsible for this controversy.

    I'm sure it exists, but I've never been able to find it; there's something that would really help: An up-to-date complete treatise of all the basic evidence that demonstrates the foundations of evolutionary theory. Observations of microevolution in the lab, sequences of fossils and how they were dated and how we're certain that they're from the same lineage, numerous clear examples, multiple convergent lines of evidence (fossils vs. dna), etc. In science class, they don't teach this. They teach the end results of the science as though it were FACT, but it's NOT. It is a fact that it's a good theory, but the theory itself cannot be deemed fact.

    I have a little girl, and I don't want to just tell her "evolution is true, and those creationists are idiots." I want to show her the science. Besides, its misleading to say that "evolution is true". Evolutionary fact observed in the lab is true. Evolutionary theory is a MODEL that we STRIVE to MAKE true and is the best model we currently have. If it were TRUE, we'd be done. No more to discover. Rather, it is a gradually improving approximation.

    1. Re:Show us the evidence of evolution! by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm sure it exists, but I've never been able to find it; there's something that would really help: An up-to-date complete treatise of all the basic evidence that demonstrates the foundations of evolutionary theory.

      You can't find it because it would be a massive encyclopedia. There are dozens of scientific journals devoted to evolutionary theory, churning out thousands of pages each year. But if you're looking for a basic summary, try a textbook on evolutionary theory -- there are a number of college-level textbooks (500-1000 pages long) on evolutionary theory that should give you what you want, as well as having a bibliography to track down more information.

      Observations of microevolution in the lab, sequences of fossils and how they were dated and how we're certain that they're from the same lineage, numerous clear examples, multiple convergent lines of evidence (fossils vs. dna), etc. In science class, they don't teach this.

      Of course not, anymore than they teach a complete history of Newtonian physics in high school or go into the methodology of meteorology or vulcanology before giving basic concepts of cloud formation or the dynamics of volcanoes. I agree that it would be good for middle school or high school students to see more scientific methodology that is critically evaluated, rather than just results. But evolutionary theory is not unique here -- you could ask the same for almost any topic presented in a science class.

      They teach the end results of the science as though it were FACT, but it's NOT. It is a fact that it's a good theory, but the theory itself cannot be deemed fact.

      It's all theory. What's an example of a "fact" to you? Are there scientific "facts"? Almost any collection of information that combines raw data in any way is an interpretation of that data. In essence, it is a "theory." Whether that theory is expressed in equations or collections of artifacts or accounts of historical events, they all require someone to put the data together, and in my view (and in the view of most scientists), no interpretation is ever final. Beyond raw data, there are no "facts" -- there are only "theories," so don't get hung up on terminology.

      Evolutionary fact observed in the lab is true.

      No, data we observe in the lab may support an interpretation consistent with evolutionary theory. For every such experiment observed in the lab, I'm sure some creationist or other scientist could come up with a different explanation that interprets the data in a different way, which might conflict with or complement evolutionary theory but not require it.

      Evolutionary theory is a MODEL that we STRIVE to MAKE true and is the best model we currently have. If it were TRUE, we'd be done. No more to discover. Rather, it is a gradually improving approximation.

      Again, one could say the same for EVERY area of science. Would you require physicists to summarize all the evidence for theories of mechanics, optics, electromagnetism, etc. before they present it as well? What about this atom theory, with electrons buzzing around? "Where's the EVIDENCE?" you say. We should teach students to think critically, but we can't introduce every idea of elementary science like this. Why is evolution special, except for political reasons, rather than scientific ones?

  10. You won't be. by aussersterne · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As someone who was born in the U.S. but grew up in a Chinese family, let me tell you that the differences are stark. The U.S. is already a third world country by ideological and cultural standards. The population is lazy, self-entitled, undereducated, science-illiterate, unversed in either informal or formal logic, and completely averse to quality standards, quality control, or doing quality work.

    All that's left is the resultant 1-or-2 generation slide into broken economy, broken infrastructure, broken governmental systems, etc. America is getting by on inertia and its population isn't doing the work to maintain its current standard of living and production, much less return it to some past glory or other.

    China, on the other hand, is ruthlessly pragmatic, wholly rational-instrumental in its current approach to the world, science and math obsessed, achievement-oriented, and completely cold-blooded about it. The achievements are stunning to anyone that looks at what has been done in a few short years, and the expectations and determination are much higher. People that are busy worrying about "human rights" in China really don't get it; most of the Chinese couldn't care less about human rights right now. They want Progress, capital "P", they believe it comes from science, work, and sacrifice, and they're willing to give up almost anything to get it. They want to dominate the world economy and they're well on their way.

    The recent furor over Chua's "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother" demonstrates at the micro-level, in very clear terms, why China will shortly surpass the U.S. Incidentally, I grew up in a family much like that. Grades were all-important, people were called "trash" and "garbage" when they didn't achieve or perform, and standards were witheringly high. I resented it very much when I was a teenager. By the time I was in my 20s, I recalled it all with fondness and in my 30s I wish I had worked even harder than I did to meet those expectations. And at the end of the day, I don't feel "abused" at all and plan to work hard to raise my own daughter with very high academic and intellectual standards.

    My wife and I are currently trying to decide whether this process will require us to leave the U.S. for either China or Eastern Europe (where she's from, and was a child prodigy at top schools under the old Soviet satellite system) in order to get a good education and avoid the dead weight of American anti-intellectual culture holding our daughter back.

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
  11. Genetics Proves Evolution by arthurpaliden · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Genetics Proves Evolution: The Creationist's Galileo Moment

    When chicken embryos start to develop they have teeth buds and the beginnings of multi segmented tails. As they develop their DNA tells the developing embryo to absorb them. Much like human embryo's absorb embryonic gill slits. Now if you turn off the genes that control this absorption instruction you get chicken embryos that develop long multi segmented dinosaur tails and meat eating dinosaur teeth complete with the serrated inside edge. Other studies have also been successful in regressing feathers into scales.

    This is not hypothesis. This is not supposition. This is not interpretation. This cold hard, hold in your hands see with your own eyes type reproducible proof. It has already been done, in Canadian universities no less, and is documented and reproducible. One more thing. No DNA was ever added to the bird DNA. This was done using 100% pure chicken DNA.

    They have proved that bird DNA contains genes that create dinosaur characteristics. The only way this can happen is through the evolutionary process.

    So like when Galileo first pointed his telescope at the heavens and learned that Aristotle was wrong modern scientists have pointed their microscopes at developing bird embryos and learned that they are correct. Evolution is real.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1026340/Jurassic-Park-comes-true-How-scientists-bringing-dinosaurs-life-help-humble-chicken.html

    Note:The 'Daily Mail' isn't the gold standard for scientific reporting but here it does a good job of describing the research so the public can understand it (creationists excepted). Names of people and institutions where the work was done are given allowing Internet searches to the relevant papers and science reporting.