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US Dept. of Justice, ICE Still Seizing Domains

Chaonici writes "Operation In Our Sites, a US initiative to crack down on websites related to online copyright infringement, appears to be ongoing. Rojadirecta is a site that links to (but does not host) broadcasts of major sporting events, including soccer matches. It is highly popular in Spain, where it has prevailed twice in court after its legal status was challenged. However, US authorities have now seized the .org domain of the website without notifying the site's owner or its web host, GoDaddy. Rojadirecta can still be accessed through .com, .es, .me, and .in domains, which are not controlled by the US, but rojadirecta.org currently redirects to this well-known image."

47 of 252 comments (clear)

  1. Summary is wrong, as usual. by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 3, Informative

    Rojadirecta.org works as of 4:14 pm, two minutes after this story was posted. No ICE image at all.

    Rojadirecta.com has the ICE image.

    1. Re:Summary is wrong, as usual. by ethan961 · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, it really is seized. As of 4:20 PST I get the ICE image. The change is probably still propagating.

    2. Re:Summary is wrong, as usual. by The_PHP_Jedi · · Score: 2

      I use Google's DNS service, and the .org domain name appears to be seized, but the .com domain name still points to the owner's servers. However, Rojadirecta's Web site says that both their .com and .org domain names were seized, so I would assume it's only a matter of time before DNS records are updated globally.

      That's probably why you're still able to access the Web site via one of the seized domain names.

      Cheers.

    3. Re:Summary is wrong, as usual. by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 2

      Not on windows, and never used the site before. Rojadirecta.org keeps coming up with the pic of the creepy looking dude in the top left corner and the following text:

      US authorities "steal" our domain rojadirecta.org and rojadirecta.com!

      Fast translation to English: US authorities have blocked access to Rojadirecta.org and now also Rojadirecta.com but we continue and we will continue our service on territorial domain names such as Rojadirecta.es (.me, .in, be...).

      We are now on: www.rojadirecta.me www.rojadirecta.es www.rojadirecta.in and in many other domains that are not controlled by US authorities.

      Do not send e-mails to our dot com account, the new one ends on .in
      SPREAD our new address!

  2. Re:Why is heading red? by MoonBuggy · · Score: 2

    Red headings are "mysterious future" articles - the brief preview that subscribers get before they're posted publicly. I've been seeing them occasionally, too, so it's either a glitch with the new design or somehow related to the "Ads Disabled. Thanks again for helping make Slashdot great!" box that you get for spending far to much time here without subscribing.

  3. Re:Why is heading red? by icebike · · Score: 2

    Glitch in the new design? How would you tell?

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  4. What Egypt and the US have in common... by metrometro · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... is a complete lack of due process and the right of appeal in regards to Internet censorship. This is appalling. The entire Western legal code is built on the idea that if you cannot be penalized for something without the right to defend yourself in court. I realize that the seizures are of property and not people, but it's not hard to argue, hey, maybe seizing someone's business and wrongly broadcasting that the owner is a criminal* might negatively impact the owner.

    * I'm referring to the case of the hip-hop blogger, who was hyping unreleased material on the request of labels and accused of piracy. I don't know the details of the site in question here.

    1. Re:What Egypt and the US have in common... by Joe+U · · Score: 2

      So, duplicating files is the same as forced data
      modification?

      Seriously, that's your argument?

      You're comparing copying a book, vs burning it.

    2. Re:What Egypt and the US have in common... by Professr3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you're going with the book analogy, it's more like copying a book vs. replacing the entire library catalog with an ICE warning card, in the off chance that SOME of the books are incompatible with ICE's views.

    3. Re:What Egypt and the US have in common... by pugugly · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I hate to be blunt, but the authorities have long since seized the right to abscond with *actual* property - cars, homes, et al based on the mere accusation of a drug related crime. Unfortunately everyone save the Libertarians (and some Liberals, including the ACLU.) went "Well, that's drug stuff - I'm sure they did *something* to deserve it".

      From Findlaw

      "As detailed in a Frontline report from 2000, federal and local practices regarding property seizure in drug cases shifted in 1984, when federal law created forfeiture funds for property seized by the DEA and FBI, and allowed local law enforcement to share proceeds from the sale of property seized."

      You've waited about 25 years too long to suddenly realise "Oh . . . this could apply to *me*?!?" (Good old Saint Reagan - Who'da thunk it? I mean - not counting people actually familiar with his record.). If people don't like this, they're going to have to go back to stopping the actual real property seizures and start pushing back from there.

      Pug

      --
      An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
    4. Re:What Egypt and the US have in common... by tragedy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is a double standard. I'm not sure why you can't see that the government is the one applying it. They're the ones who _set_ the rules, we expect them to follow them too.

      As for whether or not this is property. It's certainly not conventional property directly. On the other hand, this isn't exactly IP, as you seem to think. This has nothing to do with trade secrets, copyright, or patents. There's an argument to made, perhaps, that it's a trademark issue, since they're putting up their own site (with that one image on it). Of course, I'm against trademark applying to domain names unless the page the domain directs to is itself infringing on a trademark (using someone else's trademark to promote products, or represent them as being from that organization). The money that they paid for a registration of the domain for a set time would seem to be a form of property. In any case theft of service is generally treated as seriously as if the property were real property and is probably a felony on this scale. Aside from being theft of service, it's also a denial of service attack. If you didn't notice, the government just went after a bunch of Anonymous members for a denial of service attack.

      So any argument that this is somehow ok without a warrant and some sort of judicial process is just wrong.

    5. Re:What Egypt and the US have in common... by flaming+error · · Score: 2

      "Seized" is ICE's term, not GP. What GP explained is that their business site was replaced with a big nasty sign about them being criminals.

      If it's "pursuant to a warrant", ICE may as well post the warrant too.

    6. Re:What Egypt and the US have in common... by theskipper · · Score: 3, Informative

      It wasn't always this way but legally, they are property. See the Zuccarini case (a soap opera in itself):

      http://espinosaiplaw.com/wordpress/?p=90

      Domains are becoming very valuable assets so how they're treated legally is important.

    7. Re:What Egypt and the US have in common... by skywire · · Score: 2

      Too bad I don't have mod points at the moment. What an obvious troll. But since the modders seem to have missed the obvious, you have managed to pull off close to the perfect game in trolling: simultaneously making a fallacious argument that you know sounds so lacking in understanding of the concepts involved that the typical slashdotter will roll his or her eyes over it, and pushing the copyright button, yet still being modded up. Congrats are in order for your exercise of trolling skill.

      However, for the benefit of modders, I'll pretend that I am also blind to the obvious, and answer the putative argument: The Feds are not copying bits. They are taking ownership of (stealing) domain names from the parties who own them, without due process.

      --
      Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    8. Re:What Egypt and the US have in common... by mrchaotica · · Score: 2

      If the videos are property then so are domain names, and the Feds are seizing property without due process. If the videos are not property then the Feds have no reason to seize the domain names in the first place. Either way, the domain names should not be seized!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    9. Re:What Egypt and the US have in common... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Additionally, if I recall, this includes money. They freeze your accounts, etc. Which often times can make it hard to defend yourself in court, when you don't have any access to hire a decent lawyer.

      When I learned of this, lawyers on retainer suddenly made sense. I always wondered why you would give money to a lawyer prior to being accused of something, when you could just hire them when the need arose.

    10. Re:What Egypt and the US have in common... by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The entire Western legal code is built on the idea that if you cannot be penalized for something without the right to defend yourself in court.

      The Western Legal system sold itself out long before even the bankers did. It no longer represents anything resembling justice or its supposed philosophical principles. It's a tool of monied and corporate interestsâ"when it isn't being a another soulless bureaucracy.

      Looking for justice in the courts is like looking for prudence in a bank manger. You're 40 years too late. The courts don't care about your property or other rights; not unless you've got enough money to pay them handsomely for the trouble of trying the case.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    11. Re:What Egypt and the US have in common... by rilian4 · · Score: 2

      Seizure of property is, in theory, protected by the 4th Amendment. The US government has been violating it constantly for decades.

      4th Amendment to US Constitution: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

      --

      ...quicker, easier, more seductive the darkside is...but more powerful, it is not.
    12. Re:What Egypt and the US have in common... by HiThere · · Score: 2

      I don't follow your logic. I tend to consider them both wrong, but for quite different reasons. (And it's different yet again for different meanings of the term "piracy".)

      You also seem to be assuming that all wrongs are of the same size. I'd say that when a powerful entity subjugates a less powerful entity, and force is the only argument, then a large wrong is done, though the precise degree of harm is only determinable by considering how much damage is inflicted, there is also the question of "Was it in self defense, or proper defense of another?", which is generally considered to even justify homicide (though some jurisdictions disagree).

      Piracy in the sense of copying something that someone else has created, without the use of force, is a minor to trivial wrong, but it can be magnified if it does great harm. It's hard to see how it could be "self defense, or proper defense of another". But it's also very rarely done with the intent to harm.

      The two cases don't seem very similar at all to me.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  5. DNS replacement by Joe+U · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Again, it's past time for a DNS replacement.

    Not an alternate DNS root, an actual replacement that maps some kind of human readable names to an IP address.

    ICANN and Network Solutions have proven that they are happy to hand over domains without a full trial, it's time to replace them.

    1. Re:DNS replacement by mentil · · Score: 2

      You mean like a server setting its IPv6 IP to some kind of hash of its domain name?

      --
      Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    2. Re:DNS replacement by complete+loony · · Score: 2

      Um, no. IP6 doesn't quite work that way.

      But we could implement some kind of distributed hash table.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    3. Re:DNS replacement by Joe+U · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isn't the point of a temporary restraining order/seizure warrant to stop an action/take something before a full trial has occurred? Under whose laws should a full trial be held? Am I naive in believing that ICANN delegates control of the TLDs?

      The problem with the current system it's an instant death penalty when it comes to seizing a domain. It's tough to recover from that, and we should be operating under innocent until proven guilty.

      As for whose laws, I've always been a fan of where the server is located, or in the case of cloud computing, where the owner is located.

      ICANN delegates to NetSol (and others) for .com and others. ICANN doesn't really register domains directly.

  6. Thank you Streisand Effect by bobdotorg · · Score: 4, Funny

    Had never heard of Rojadirect.

    Now I have another bookmarked site.

    --
    __ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
  7. ATDHE.net by doroshjt · · Score: 4, Informative
    1. Re:ATDHE.net by Gofyerself · · Score: 2

      I loved the article, especially: "A spokesperson from ICE confirmed that it was a legitimate seizure and that there is an ongoing investigation into the matter." Shoot first, ask questions later!

  8. Way to go Justice Dept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Countdown until the EU starts bitching about USA control of ICANN servers again? Starting... now.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_governance#Globalization_and_governance_controversy

    Fucking morons. The diplomatic consequences of this will be far reaching and even if we get to keep our queen despite taking these pawns, the diplomatic backlash over the soon to ensue ICANN debate is going to cost the USA billions of dollars over the next decade. How? In lost profit from trade agreements as a consequence of losing our bargaining position.

    Let the record show that no one can claim the reprecussions of this were unforseeable. It took me 10 seconds from reading the summary to understand the big picture consequences.

    Hopefully this will be the straw that breaks the camels back and causes a public uproar which will put an end to this pro-Corpyright anti-fair use insanity.

    1. Re:Way to go Justice Dept. by TheCarp · · Score: 2

      So what? Honestly, I am here in the US and, do have plenty of reason to enjoy the status quo, but this even pisses me off, and makes me think that it needs to be fixed. I think the best ideas that I have heard have been ideas like bitdns (which is nowhere near even being proof of concept implemented) which gets rid of the entire concept of governance and goes completely to decentralized P2P.

      I tend to lean more towards those sorts of solutions. Why create another single point of failure?

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    2. Re:Way to go Justice Dept. by TheCarp · · Score: 2

      encryption? I don't see how that helps.

      Look at bitcoin. No crypto. As I said in a couple of other posts, a DNS system based on a proof of work chain would... be much easier to do without ANY central authority. It means giving up the ability to EVER revoke a domain. However, that is kind of the point. To reduce the any manner of physical coercion (legal or otherwise) as a useful tool.

      Some crypto would be used in implementing such a scheme, but, the problem goes far beyond anything that crypto alone can solve.

      Think about this... proof of work proofs can be made so hard as to require many systems working in parallel to solve. This is how bitcoin works now. There is a simple agreement that people adding to the block chain (the chain is basically a transaction log) gets some defined number of "coins" (its a function of the block number being added). This is how new money is "minted"... really... just a log entry added to the chain that comes from its position in the chain, rather than some existing "account".

      So... all this scheme really needs is to tweak generation so it never decreases the number of coins (and in fact, may increase) and then agree on a time limit. So you transfer "coins" into an "account". Add a new block type that allows you to associate a name that is not currently already taken with an account, and say that all accounts lose coins at a defined rate, and names become available when their current account hits a zero balance.

      Sure, there are going to be other details, but its not a bad idea, nor completely off the cuff, this is just my description of a protocol based on some bitcoin forum discussions. I think I like the idea alot, though, I wouldn't say that this variation is particularly fleshed out or perfect.

      Might not be hard (and would probably be preferable) to front end it with plain old DNS protocol. Though, there would be something to be said for having everyone hold a copy of the block chain.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
  9. WTF Really? by TheCarp · · Score: 2

    It really is pretty bogus that the US has such control over non-.us domains.

    This is a pretty good reason to argue for the removal of ALL US hosted servers from root zone files.

    There was some interesting discussion in the bitcoin forums about setting up a system similar to bitcoin for DNS, which would assign domains based on proof of work problem solutions. Essentially, generating a block of new unbound domains every time someone processed a block of work, the same way bitcoins are now generated, and allowing the generator to then assign them names and transfer ownership to others.

    Would be interesting since it essentially becomes a system of ownership based on consensus amongst working nodes, and there is no way to effect the network by fiat. It has drawbacks, no way to revoke any domain... for any reason. Probably not really workable like that... but given that its just a system of consensus rules built around a proof of work block chain, other agreements on the rules are possible...

    Some thoughts anyway,

    --
    "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
  10. Re:Why is heading red? by Baseclass · · Score: 2

    I'm guessing it's another perk for us longtime users with good karma.
    Like having the ability to disable ads (as if that ever stopped us).

    --
    ^^vv<><>BA
  11. Re:Maybe there is a solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The USA is the last of the Western World when it comes to Free Speech and Human Rights. Granted, the Western World represents less than 25% of the 200 countries on the planet, so even being last of the Western World may not seem all that bad.
    But then again, the USA now qualifies as a tyranny thanks to the government repeatedly violating the Constitution and Human Rights of it's citizens: (It is rarely referred to as a tyranny publicly in politics and in the media, but it fits the definition of the word). As for the International scene, the behavior of the US government will make the entire country be considered as a rogue state by even Europe. Europe just needs a bit of time to realize how bad the USA has become and get over the shock, but soon it will.

  12. Domains are so 90's by Greyfox · · Score: 2

    Just have Google return IP addresses instead of domain names and I bet you'd eliminate 90% of the DNS traffic in the world today. Perhaps we should just move past it...

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  13. America, corporate whore. by unity100 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    dont excuse the language - i cant find any stronger words to stress the travesty thats going on here :

    america is whoring itself out to a particular industry, while killing another. the internet which was associated so closely with '.com' extension, will not be associated with it anymore. in web hosting industry, customers are already moving away from .com .net .org domains. can you imagine what the impact of this will be ? they will also be moving away from american outlets for hosting, dedicated servers, vpses and cloud, because the place which will register their NON american controlled extension, will naturally be offering deals to them during their domain purchase.

    way to kill an entire industry that de facto built internet, in order to whore yourself out to a fading out one, america.

    troll ? no. appalled to oblivion maybe. i cant any stronger words to stress the travesty of the situation, really. other than 'whoring' or 'morondom'. really.

    1. Re:America, corporate whore. by c0lo · · Score: 2

      the internet which was associated so closely with '.com' extension

      The final deflation of the dotCom-bubble just started. The internet will be fine... until somebody will start seizing the IP addresses.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    2. Re:America, corporate whore. by c0lo · · Score: 2

      google "freenet"

      And be quick... before ICE seizes the freenet.org domain as well.
      Alt DNS roots may be another idea.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
  14. But why do I still get "slow down, cowboy"? by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2

    ... "Ads Disabled. Thanks again for helping make Slashdot great!" box that you get for spending far to much time here without subscribing.

    I get that.

    But I also still get "Slow Down, Cowboy!"

    Seems odd. I'd expect the "disable ads" option to be intended to encourage people whose postings are considered valuable and well-considered to post more of them. But the one-per-five-minutes limit for such people (who can often compose postings quickly) seems to work at cross-purposes to the option. So I'd have expected the limit to go away with the offering of the option.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  15. No, there is due process. by Oxford_Comma_Lover · · Score: 2

    > What Egypt and the US have in common is a complete lack of due process and the right of appeal in regards to Internet censorship. This is appalling. The entire Western legal code is built on the idea that if you cannot be penalized for something without the right to defend yourself in court. I realize that the seizures are of property and not people, but it's not hard to argue, hey, maybe seizing someone's business and wrongly broadcasting that the owner is a criminal* might negatively impact the owner.

    Wrong. The US has both due process and a right to appeal. Comparing the situation in the US to that in Egypt is overgeneralizing in a way which is both incorrect and insultingly trivializing the troubles in those parts of the world that do not have US rights.

    In the US, in terms of due process, the warrants are seized based on a warrant, as they say on the "well-known" graphic. That means someone in a judicial capacity has approved the seizure.

    If that power was misused and the warrant is bad, you have a very strong case for a lawsuit against the government for violating your constitutional rights. (Google "section 1983 lawsuits")

    In terms of a right to appeal, you are perfectly entitled to defend yourself in court. You are entitled to appeal if the court gets it wrong--or even if they get it right.

    And you are entitled to petition Congress. And the Supreme Court. And the President.

    --
    -- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
    1. Re:No, there is due process. by b0r0din · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course you're welcome to defend yourself in court, against lots of lawyers and monetary interests (because court victories are mostly bought nowadays) and leave yourself at the hands of a 50-yr old jurist who probably can't figure out how to plug in his friggin toaster.

      Power is always misused, but in terms of law, well let's just say that the US government is way behind on real justice anymore. The law is written to protect the corporate interests.

      Copyright and patent law is broken. It's totally broken. And corporate lobbyists with money and very specific interests want to make sure no politicians challenge their little cabal of self-preservation. And politicians happily accept this money and there's very little you can do about it.

      I'm increasingly despondent at the state of our country right now, when stuff like this is actively happening, when our own government wants a kill switch on the Internet. It saddens me that we even need 1st amendment rights, but Jefferson's insistence of their inclusion was apparently the right choice. I know we're talking about specific sites here, but now we're getting into some serious territory here, FREEDOM OF SPEECH, CENSORSHIP. When the government is seizing sites like this, you know some businesses are just going to move offshore to avoid exactly the same problem. It'll happen quicker than you think.

    2. Re:No, there is due process. by camperdave · · Score: 2

      That means someone in a judicial capacity has approved the seizure.

      So what's to stop them from having a judge on the payroll to rubber stamp warrants?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    3. Re:No, there is due process. by Oxford_Comma_Lover · · Score: 2

      Nothing at all, and that generally is what they do. But if someone rubber-stamps a warrant where there was no probable cause, you not only are likely to get the evidence excluded, you can sue the government for having violated your rights. So your pre-seizure due process may be mostly a formality, but if it's not done right, there are consequences.

      --
      -- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
  16. Re:This never happened under the Bush administrati by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah, the media was SOOO in G.W.B.'s pocket. [facepalm]

    Excuse me, you stupid fucking anonymous coward, but you might want to google the name "Judith Miller" and after that "the run-up to the Iraq War + media".

    Then never come back here until you've spent some time thinking about what a dumb clown you are.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  17. This keeps the US safe by d6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This keeps the US safe from the terrorists how exactly?

    Change the name to 'The Department of Homeland Security and Corporate Enforcement' guys

  18. Re:My favorite websites by 1u3hr · · Score: 2
    transition to other domains such as .me

    Why would you trust Montenegro to stand up for your rights? All these tiny nations that have turned over their TLD to some company that promotes them due to some accidental similarity with an English word have not the slightest interest in the people who use the domains. They could cancel them all tomorrow, give them to someone else, or if the US leant on them.

    I used to think that .com was boring but safe from arbitrary interruption; that's not true now. I don't do anything that's likely to annoy the US govt, but if I did I'd look for a country that was standing behind its TLD, not whoring it out.

  19. Re:My favorite websites by c0lo · · Score: 3, Informative

    transition to other domains such as .me

    Why would you trust Montenegro to stand up for your rights?.

    I don't. But before considering OpenNIC or the like, here why .me has a better level of trust:
    - historically, nobody heard about .me domains being seized (not that it cannot happen in the future)...
    - ... but .org, .net and .com... continue to happen.

    Between .me and {.org, .net, .com} - excluding others - who do you trust better?

    --
    Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
  20. deliberately fracture the DNS by evanism · · Score: 2

    The DNS isn't free of political interference. So it is time to fracture the DNS away from the current regime.

    It would seem that entire countries are on the verge of locking the entire system down anyway (Australian monitoring and NBN, Egypt, US Kill Switch) so why not anticipate it and use IPv6 as the ultimate mass obfuscation tool.

    Build 90,000,000 "registers". Each machine or Ethernet card gets 16.9 bazzillion IPv6s allocated to it. "Register" X-gazillion of them with each of the Tor-like registers. The original registration is "deemed" to be authoritative and given a super huge uber crypto key with which to package up all the others for propagation and allow updates. Change of an arbitrary and previously "registered" domain, like example.com is propagated out and lives, essentially, forever. If a "register" is removed, or the example.com deleted, it loves on as a permanent undead/ghost.

    As you can see, it is just the first off the cuff/top of head, but it permanently gets rid of registrars, governments, tripup-abilitiy, etc. The only way to take it out is to get the machine. Cloud it out to N-thousand cloud providers and make it indestructible.

    Please free to critique. We need more and better ways to defeat a government who is no longer FOR THE PEOPLE.

    --
    Just bought a new quantum computer, but I'm uncertain how it works.
  21. Jursidiction? by Loki_666 · · Score: 3, Funny

    What the hell does the Department of Homeland Security have to do with copyright infringement anyway? Or is the department of fatherland homeland security allowed to do whatever it likes?