Tech-Unfriendly Cafes Say No Kindles Allowed

It's a free country by Relyx · 2011-02-12 04:32 · Score: 4, Informative

Those cafes are quite free to ban eReaders, iPads and the like. Whether it will actually be enforced is another question entirely. Even if the management comes down hard, there is nothing stopping their customers going elsewhere.

Re:It's a free country by confused+one · 2011-02-12 04:35 · Score: 5, Insightful

You've hit the nail on the head. If Cafe X bans the tablets then they'll see their customers walk down the street to Cafe Y, which welcomes them. There's nothing that says you have to do business with the cafe that bans the devices.
Re:It's a free country by Joe+U · 2011-02-12 04:37 · Score: 2

So, I can read a book, but not a Kindle?
Kindle goes in book jacket cover, problem solved.
Re:It's a free country by thomasdz · 2011-02-12 04:46 · Score: 4, Funny

Yes, you can read a book, but at MY cafe, only books that have been handwritten on velum are allowed... I don't allow any of them high-falootin' printing press -produced monstrosities. I demand my customers use the written word as God meant it to be used... produced by monks.

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Re:It's a free country by morari · 2011-02-12 04:51 · Score: 2

Who really cares though? I go to cafes to eat and drink, not play with my Nook or check my e-mail.

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Re:It's a free country by Bill_the_Engineer · 2011-02-12 04:52 · Score: 2

Absolutely.
I think this has more to do with economics than ambiance. People with multifunction devices are more likely to plant themselves to a seat than a customer with a paperback. I'm sure there are people with traditional books that spend all day at a cafe, but they are outnumbered by the people with the electronic devices. More new customers equate to more revenue.
I also think that as soon as more customers go to a competitor in sufficient numbers that generates empty seats, the cafe owner would reconsider their stance against customers with e-readers.

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Re:It's a free country by Lord+Byron+II · 2011-02-12 04:57 · Score: 2

Or cafe X will see an uptick in business as their tables turn quicker. Either way, it's the free market economy at its best.
(Side note: this only works because in a place like NYC, there is a lot of competition. If you lived in a small town with only one coffeeshop, then this would be a completely different deal. (I'm looking at you Time Warner Cable.))
Re:It's a free country by Dcnjoe60 · 2011-02-12 05:18 · Score: 5, Interesting

Or cafe X will see an uptick in business as their tables turn quicker. Either way, it's the free market economy at its best.
(Side note: this only works because in a place like NYC, there is a lot of competition. If you lived in a small town with only one coffeeshop, then this would be a completely different deal. (I'm looking at you Time Warner Cable.))
But even in a small town, the store owner would be in their right to not allow kindles and other devices. A small town, probably has a smaller coffee shop, which probably has fewer seats that need to be turned over just as quickly as in NYC to be profitable. I've lived in a town of 30,000 that had a Panera's coffee shop. It was next to impossible to eat their during normal lunch hours because of their free wifi and all of the college kids sitting around on their laptops with a cup of coffee for hours on end. $2 for a cup of coffee for 3 or 4 hours of internet wasn't a bad deal for the kids, but it sure impacted business for the store.
Their solution? During the lunch hours 11:00 - 1:30, you could only use laptops in one relatively small section of the place. They even had free internet terminals at some of the tables if you wanted. It turns out that the same amount of people were using the internet, but instead of one per table or booth, they all shared the tables and booths in that area. In that way, the store could still serve it's paying customers.
The whole point of the above story is that it impacts even small towns.
Re:It's a free country by Patch86 · 2011-02-12 06:00 · Score: 2

Not to criticise you (I'm sure plenty of people think similarly) but it's sad that that's the way people view these sorts of places these days.
I visited the island Jersey a few years back, which has a sort of 60s-Britain-meets-modern-France vibe. I remember a cafe where there were school kids playing chess, and old guys playing cards, and people reading books, and a guy doing paperwork with a laptop. I'm sure they were only buying as many drinks as they wanted, but they all seemed pretty settled in. A lot of continental Europe is similar. Britain has (or possibly "had") a similar sort of thing going on with its pub culture; it wasn't so long ago that pubs were a place to meet, play games, sing, generally socialise (and where incidentally drinks were served). I still happily spend an afternoon or evening in a pub with a book or complimentary newspaper or my smartphone, making a couple of drinks last, occasionally chatting with the locals. Unfortunately more people seem to have your attitude now- pubs are for eating, drinking, and leaving. More's the shame.
Just another symptom of commoditising all aspects of life, I suppose.
Re:It's a free country by itsenrique · 2011-02-12 06:15 · Score: 2

Maybe they just ask you to put the kindle away. I can sort of see it now, a place run by some serious hippies. You: *takes out Kindle. begin reading* Owner/Employee: Hey man we really appreciate your patronage but we have a no electronics policy at Wackadoo Cafe. Its for the ambiance. Sorry man. At that point you may continue to use the thing for a while without attracting further conversation, but are you really even going to GO there again? Unless of course you put the kindle away and had a good time..
Re:It's a free country by Wyatt+Earp · 2011-02-12 06:27 · Score: 2

Bar cultures are different all over the world. Heck its different across the United States, but in general the bar or pub in the United States and from what I've seen in western Canada is about drinking first, socializing second.
There are specialized bars for dating (the meat market), singing (karaoke bars), music performance, bar games, dressing up/clubbing, etc. But by in large "bar" in North America means a place to drink, alone or with friends, often until the middle of the night.
Re:It's a free country by jonsmirl · 2011-02-12 07:29 · Score: 3, Interesting

Give the manager control of the hot spot. If he is running out seats, set the wifi to kick MAC addresses off after 15min and not allow them back on for 2hrs (earlier if he turns the enforcement off). You can defeat this by switching MAC addresses but the people who set up office during rush hours should get the message.
FIve or six people setting up office can ruin a Starbucks. They spread things all over the tables forcing you to ask them to clear off a spot for you to use. Then they make comments about not spilling anything on their precious work. Some of them are pretty rude about it. It completely ruins the experience by putting you in the spot of invading their office or you have to drink standing. I've learned which coffee shops have this problem and I'll walk farther to get to ones that are more coffee friendly. Of course that's not much fun in three feet of snow.
Re:It's a free country by MaskedSlacker · 2011-02-12 21:45 · Score: 2

Who takes a laptop to a bar?
It's the one environment where you DON'T need access to porn.

No one's saying it isn't by guyminuslife · 2011-02-12 04:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

That's not the point.

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Re:No one's saying it isn't by commodore6502 · 2011-02-12 04:44 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yeah, it is.
- In a free country the Citizen owning the shop can ban any damn thing he wants to ban, just as I can invite your into my home, but ban you from wearing shoes.

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Re:No one's saying it isn't by Rude+Turnip · 2011-02-12 05:01 · Score: 4, Insightful

It's a cop-out and intellectual laziness to just say the cafe/shop owners can do whatever they want--we already know that. The discussion of weighing the benefits versus the disadvantages is nonetheless an interesting one. And, perhaps such discussions will give cafe owners food for thought in making their business decisions.

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Re:No one's saying it isn't by Dcnjoe60 · 2011-02-12 05:10 · Score: 4, Insightful

What about disabled people with their large clumsy wheelchairs? Or non-white people? Or Women? What about Muslims? What they have one down the street?
I know the Nazis burned the books, so modern fascists burn Kindles?
Still feel like a free country?
That's a stupid argument. For one, disabled people in wheelchars, non-blacks, woment, Muslims, etc, have rights that are enforced under law. Nobody has the right to read a kindle or use a laptop or cell phone wherever they want to.
Second, the coffee shop, being privately owned is perfectly within its right to say if you don't wear shoes or shirt we will not serve you. If you smoke, we will not serve you and yes, if you use a kindle, we will not serve you.
The said coffee shops in the articles are doing this for very good business reasons. They have found that when people camp out at a table or booth for hours working on their laptop or reading a kindle, they don't get much revenue. They way the potential for lost revenue by kindle customers getting upset and going elsewhere with the actual loss they were experiencing.
If you don't like it, you are free to frequent other coffee shops or even start your own that caters to kindle users. That's what it means to live in a free country.
Re:No one's saying it isn't by Runaway1956 · 2011-02-12 05:20 · Score: 4, Insightful

Alright, I won't cop out. Cafe owners are in business for the same reason most other people are in business: to make a living, or money. Having been a truck driver for years, I spent MANY an hour in truck stop diners, reading the news, reading a book, or just killing time in some other manner. Uncountable hours. But - I wouldn't DREAM of sitting in the diner during their lunch rush hour, taking up space, while I read another chapter or six of Asimov's Foundation. As friendly and chummy as most truck stop waitresses, managers, and owners are toward truck driver's needs - THEY NEED THAT SPACE at rush hour! The average cafe desperately needs all the space available during meal times. And, between meals, many cafes are frantically busy with cleaning up, and preparing for the next onslaught. That is to say, unless the owner makes a policy of welcoming the idle into his establishment, his business space is BUSINESS space. Of course, I know how valuable it is to court those idle people with time to kill, reading a book. Make them welcome today, let them slurp coffee as long as they want, and they'll come back when they are hungry. Some places, anyway. All the same - if you want them to welcome your little distractions, you should take the time to educate them about how your distraction might benefit them in some way. I mean - do you stop at that cafe 3 or more times a week? Are the waitresses familiar with you? Have you ever TALKED to the manager? No, no, and no? Well - this seems to to indicate that you have little, if any value to the store owner. Hey, I'll bet that if you eat at the same restaurant every week, at least twice, the manager WILL remember you before long. Then, ban or no ban, if you pull your reader out for thirty minutes during non-rush hours, he ain't gonna say a WORD to you about it. In short - stop expecting a free ride. You gotta give a little to get a little in this world.

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Re:No one's saying it isn't by gilleain · 2011-02-12 05:22 · Score: 2

They have found that when people camp out at a table or booth for hours working on their laptop or reading a kindle, they don't get much revenue.
Exactly. This is why many coffee shops that start out with friendly living room furnishings - like low comfy sofas - end up with tall hard stools at a counter. I go to a lot of coffee shops where students sit for hours with their one drink. I think its rude, frankly - it's a business, not your house.
However, I often use a laptop in these places, and I don't think its unreasonable so long as I only stay for the time it takes to eat my food and drink. Of course, with more people imagining they are 'digital nomads' or some such nonsense, there will be some who sit there all day.
Re:No one's saying it isn't by cyn1c77 · 2011-02-12 05:29 · Score: 2, Informative

The said coffee shops in the articles are doing this for very good business reasons. They have found that when people camp out at a table or booth for hours working on their laptop or reading a kindle, they don't get much revenue. They way the potential for lost revenue by kindle customers getting upset and going elsewhere with the actual loss they were experiencing.
If you don't like it, you are free to frequent other coffee shops or even start your own that caters to kindle users. That's what it means to live in a free country.
I support this as a customer too. It is annoying as hell when you buy a coffee and there are no seats... purely because 15 people have setup their mobile offices on all of the tables.
If you want to work (or read for an hour), go to your office or the library. There will be less distractions and you will work faster.
Re:No one's saying it isn't by TheRaven64 · 2011-02-12 06:54 · Score: 2

They probably should be now. The problem is when most cafes ban blacks / gays / whatever, then these people have no cafes that they can go to. When discrimination is very common, then you need some legislation to prevent it. Now, I'd imagine most cafes wouldn't, and the ones that did would see a lot fewer customers. If anything, the legislation is working against its original intent, because it's making it harder for racist idiots to go out of business by being racist idiots.

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Re:No one's saying it isn't by TheRaven64 · 2011-02-12 07:01 · Score: 3, Insightful

It's a difficult balance. No one wants to go into an empty cafe, but no one wants to go into a completely full one either. There have been some psychological studies on this, and I forget the exact number but I vaguely remember somewhere about 60% full being optimal for encouraging people in. This means that when you're less than half full, it's a good idea to encourage people to stay - give free refills to regular customers or don't complain if they stay and read without ordering anymore. On the other hand, once you're more than about three quarters full, you want to start encouraging people to leave (although not in a way that discourages them from coming back).

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Re:No one's saying it isn't by RulerOf · 2011-02-12 07:18 · Score: 2

However, I often use a laptop in these places, and I don't think its unreasonable so long as I only stay for the time it takes to eat my food and drink. Of course, with more people imagining they are 'digital nomads' or some such nonsense, there will be some who sit there all day.
Indeed. I can only imagine that just about every Slashdotter in his twenties can think of a place full of those "digital nomads." It's particularly obnoxious when one of them decides that downloading some torrents is a good idea.

The place that I used to frequent, and now visit occasionally with friends to sit down and play some DotA (admittedly, the last time was to have fun with Firesheep :P) while drinking some decent coffee is a place on the west side of Cleveland called "Common Grounds." It's all but literally a hole in the wall, but their clientele make for an interesting place to sit and watch what my own life might be like if I hadn't moved to the suburbs and had been more into drugs and sex when I was younger instead of being a suburbanite wrapped up in Diablo 2 and girls that weren't single. [/reminisce]

Either way, while the shop has a fairly strictly enforced "no loitering" policy, I agree that it's rude to buy one drink and goof off on your laptop for an entire shift. I usually make it a point to, while I'm at the place, buy at least one drink every 90 minutes or so and, of course, to tip the barman.

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Re:No one's saying it isn't by t2t10 · 2011-02-12 07:35 · Score: 2

They have found that when people camp out at a table or booth for hours working on their laptop or reading a kindle, they don't get much revenue.
And they get more revenue when people camp out for hours reading a paperback???
Re:No one's saying it isn't by Hognoxious · 2011-02-12 08:32 · Score: 2

Simple - apply a rule that if you haven't bought anything in the last hour (or whatever - you could even vary it by time of day) a new customer has priority for seating.

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Re:No one's saying it isn't by icebraining · 2011-02-12 09:25 · Score: 3, Interesting

But - I wouldn't DREAM of sitting in the diner during their lunch rush hour, taking up space, while I read another chapter or six of Asimov's Foundation.
Except you can still do that if you have a paper book. This has nothing to do with table space, your rant is completely offtopic.

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Re:No one's saying it isn't by MichaelSmith · 2011-02-12 10:08 · Score: 2

My wife works as an architect and we visited a cafe which she had worked on. We met the owner and she complemented him on his uncomfortable seats. Apparently he went through several iterations before he got the formula right. Too comfortable and people say to chat and stop buying. Not comfortable enough and people don't stay long enough to buy enough food. He doesn't want people sitting for hours with a laptop. The space they are using should be earning good money.

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Re:No one's saying it isn't by bigsteve@dstc · 2011-02-12 14:19 · Score: 2

In a free country, a business is public and you can't deny service to people unless you have very good reasons.
Actually, I think you'll find that is incorrect. As I understand it, a business in the US can decide who they can do business with / offer service to provided that they don't discriminate on the basis of specifically legislated criteria; e.g. race, religion, (dis-)ability, etc. Even then there are limits. For instance you won't be able to hire a car if you are blind, or get life insurance if you have AIDs.
Coffee shops are not legally or morally obliged to let you use Kindles, any more than they are obliged to let you eat Big Macs, or dance on the table with your underpants on your head. Or a nightclub or restaurant can legally refuse to let you in because they disagree with your choice of clothing. Ultimately, it is a business decision.

Starbucks advert? by fantomas · 2011-02-12 04:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

To summarise the article: indie cafes bad, but on the First of Some Month Starbucks will give you free internet for as long as you want. Not "a major chain of coffee houses" but STARBUCKS.

How much was this person being paid to plug a company's offerings?

Re:Starbucks advert? by SteveFoerster · 2011-02-12 04:51 · Score: 2

To summarise the article: indie cafes bad, but on the First of Some Month Starbucks will give you free internet for as long as you want. Not "a major chain of coffee houses" but STARBUCKS.
How much was this person being paid to plug a company's offerings?
I feel the opposite way. When an article obfuscatorily refers to "a major player in the [whatever] industry" I think it sounds weirder than when they just say which particular business they mean.

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Do they ban books? by hawguy · 2011-02-12 04:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

As long as they ban books, magazines and other reading materials that's a good policy - I hate going to my local coffee shop for a quick drink and snack only to find that half of the tables are taken over by 3 person study groups who pushed 4 tiny tables together to make room for their books and papers, or rows of people on their laptops (some working, some just idling browsing the 'net, and that guy in the corner browsing porn).

But to ban a Kindle or Nook just because it's electronic seems like a stretch -- browsing is not a joy on either of those platforms, so it's not like someone is going to be spending hours answering his work email. Though he may spend hours reading an eBook, just like he would do with a paper book if he didn't have a Kindle.

[citation needed] by StDoodle · 2011-02-12 04:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

Now, I'm not saying I doubt that there are cafes banning such devices. But cafes -- especially indie establishments -- have a long history of having their individual, quirky policies. Is this one or two cafes that have banned said devices, and only said devices? Have the cafes in question banned all extended table-takeover "loitering" (for whatever that means in such a place)? I just find it rather difficult to get worked up over a post with so little information behind it. (Ok, a small amount of info on cafe history... but without the present situation clarified, what good is that?)

Re:[citation needed] by PCM2 · 2011-02-12 10:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

One of the things San Francisco is doing now is that, when developers want to put up big new office buildings, they have to include a certain amount of "public space" in their designs. I know a couple of buildings that do this, and the result is a really nice, large, open space in the lobby, surrounded by glass, with lots of tables and chairs and some plants, where anybody can go in and sit for free. So if the local coffee shop really wants me to buy my coffee and get the fuck out, then by all means... I'll take it up the road.
Ah, but that's just the thing. Most coffee shops don't just want you to buy your coffee and get the fuck out, because a coffee shop with no people in it seems cold and uninviting, and it makes you wonder whether there's something wrong with the coffee. The traditional coffee shop atmosphere is one where people sip, read, quietly talk, study, and maybe do a little work. So they need a certain number of people doing just that.
When I hear about coffee shops making up rules to kick those people out, though, I can only assume that it must be because times are flush. Lucky you -- enjoy it while you can. Cuz you opened a coffee shop in NYC, pal. Hipster trends come and go -- by definition -- and I guarantee you, your coffee won't taste as good as the next guy's in a couple years' time, no matter what you do. You might start wishing you still had some of those customers you alienated, back when it was still cool to pretend people didn't want Nooks and Kindles.

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I wish there was a cafe... by Average_Joe_Sixpack · 2011-02-12 04:38 · Score: 4, Funny

where I could use my soldering iron and dremel. Also, the walls would be lined with component and fastener bins.

Re:I wish there was a cafe... by wertarbyte · 2011-02-12 04:59 · Score: 5, Interesting

There is a location here in the city of Essen, germany that resembles your idea: http://www.unperfekthaus.de/e/ It's a building housing an interesting combination of a restauraunt, art studio, electronic laboratory, stage etc. You can use most of the equipment for free, provided that you do it openly and thus allow spectators, each paying an entry fee of 5,5 EUR which includes an unlimited supply of coffee and soft drinks. Quite nice for hanging out, learning for an exam or soldering together some new devices. Of course, WLAN connectivity is available as well :-)

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There is something nice about a tech-less cafe by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-12 04:39 · Score: 2, Insightful

Imagine, people just maybe reading paper books, having good conversations with friends, being on dates, or just soaking up the smell of roasted coffee and the light perfume of the pleasant woman in the sweater next to you. No clickety-clack, no heads down and eyes glued to a screen, no thumbs frenetically moving over a tiny unearthly rectange, more people over 60 feeling at ease and not alienated, etc.

Nothing wrong with full-on hardcore technology style cafes, either. It's just a choice.

Indie = Pretentious now? by newcastlejon · 2011-02-12 04:43 · Score: 5, Insightful

I can understand people wanting to avoid the sound of spiders scratching behind earbuds, or bright flashing colours in the corner of one's eye but why ban silent, monochromatic book replacements? This sort of café sounds to me like a gathering place of pompous poseurs (possibly goateed) sat there with tattered - by their previous owners - copies of Milne spouting neo-luddite claptrap.

Here endeth the rant. If these places want to alienate paying customers then that's their right; it's just a shame there probably won't be another article on their inevitable going out of business. Of course, collecting all this sort just makes it that much easier to avoid them, so I'm at best ambivalent about the whole thing.

P.S. I figure if the only source is a paywalled opinion piece then it shouldn't count as news...

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Turn off the wi-fi by qwerty+shrdlu · 2011-02-12 04:43 · Score: 5, Insightful

If they don't want these people hanging out, why go to the trouble of luring them in?

Their cafe, their choice... by Neil_Brown · 2011-02-12 04:43 · Score: 5, Interesting

If it's made clear before I parted with money for a drink that something non-obvious is prohibited, then I've no problem at all - I can simply take my patronage elsewhere.

If it's only after I've bought a drink and sat down to read that I'm told, then I'm likely to be less impressed, but, at the end of the day, it's not really something I'm going to worry too much about - at worst, if I really do need to read something, I can walk out.

Since I tend to get a bottle of water, and maybe something to eat, I probably haven't lost much either, since I'll take them with me, but I could understand why someone who's not using a takeaway cup might be loathe to leave their (often expensive) coffee behind, but, I do try not to get riled over a few pounds if I can avoid it. Life is too short.

Re:I, for one... by Lawrence_Bird · 2011-02-12 04:45 · Score: 3, Interesting

I agree to an extent - I don't think the dedicated e-readers should be a concern as they are equivalent to bringing a book to read - no typing, sound or other flashiness. Of course, real or electronic, book reading takes up space and if you aren't buying multiple cups of coffee you're a loss.

Look past the device... by iceT · 2011-02-12 04:52 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'd wager it's not the device... or the table space that a laptop takes up... It's way more physical than that...

It's about CHAIRS and WIFI.

No one wants to go sit in a coffee shop and when you get there, there are no seats because people have 'set up shop' and are there for the long haul. They want you to enjoy your coffee, and LEAVE. Same goes for WIFI. What once was a sales feature to get you INTO the store: Free WiFi, is now something that KEEPS you in the store, but doesn't make any more money for the shops. How many people drink cup after cup of coffee the entire 2-3 hours they're sitting there? nope. they got one $2 cup of coffee, and then tie up the seats and the wifi for hours. And their WiFi is probably over taxed because of it...

Books don't consume WiFi, and most people don't read a book for hours.

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Re:Look past the device... by Anonymous+Psychopath · 2011-02-12 05:08 · Score: 5, Interesting

I'd wager it's not the device... or the table space that a laptop takes up... It's way more physical than that...
It's about CHAIRS and WIFI.
No one wants to go sit in a coffee shop and when you get there, there are no seats because people have 'set up shop' and are there for the long haul. They want you to enjoy your coffee, and LEAVE. Same goes for WIFI. What once was a sales feature to get you INTO the store: Free WiFi, is now something that KEEPS you in the store, but doesn't make any more money for the shops. How many people drink cup after cup of coffee the entire 2-3 hours they're sitting there? nope. they got one $2 cup of coffee, and then tie up the seats and the wifi for hours. And their WiFi is probably over taxed because of it...
Books don't consume WiFi, and most people don't read a book for hours.
Your entire argument assumes that the largest coffee chain in the US can't do simple math. *$ offers free, unlimited wifi for a reason. What do you think that reason is?

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Re:Look past the device... by OnlyJedi · 2011-02-12 05:37 · Score: 2

e-readers don't normally consume WiFi either. Most have built-in 3G, and even the ones that don't only use WiFi when purchasing new books and the occasional web browsing. And here's a tip: most people don't buy e-readers for web browsing.
Re:Look past the device... by Howitzer86 · 2011-02-12 07:34 · Score: 2

I imagine a coffee shop with timers on each chair. Put in a quarter to sit in a chair for 10 minutes. Two quarters for 15 minutes. Three for 22.5. Four for 33.75, etc. The more quarters you put in, the less you get out of it.
At the end of the time, the chair emits a soft ding and raises a flag. Put in more quarters for more time. Want to stay 30 minutes? No problem. Want to stay an hour? Reconsider your options.

Re:I, for one... by FuckingNickName · 2011-02-12 04:58 · Score: 3, Funny

Smoking? I understand - It's unpleasant and it stinks. People talking on the phone? I understand - it's annoying.

So you only agree with someone else's private establishment banning what you find annoying.

could they name one cafe? by boguslinks · 2011-02-12 05:07 · Score: 5, Insightful

Would it have been too much trouble for the author of the Times piece to actually name a place that is prohibiting Kindles? She managed to get in her Charbucks plug without naming any of the villains.

Tabloid Fiction? by Manip · 2011-02-12 05:07 · Score: 2

This story sounds so tabloid I'm a little embarrassed that it is appearing on /. I'd read the story, except I can't. So I have to assume she cited no actual examples and basically could just as easily be making the entire thing up. You read these stories ALL THE TIME, it is like the cancer story every other week or the "shock action by authority figure" story you see every day.

I bet you'd struggle to find more than half a dozen such places in all of New York STATE. Which, frankly, makes for an entirely non-event. I'm sure you can find just as many private clubs that don't let a certain gender or sexual orientation in at all...

Re:Tempest in a teapot by Hatta · 2011-02-12 05:08 · Score: 2

Maybe this would be better characterized as a "monsoon in a mug"?

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Re:There really is a problem... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-12 05:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

hypocrite: When I do it it is okay but when other do it, it is unnaceptable

Why is this bad? by Charliemopps · 2011-02-12 05:26 · Score: 2

It used to be that people would hang out in diners and Perkins to read the paper, drink coffee, etc... Then kids started coming in with their fancy laptops and their wifi. What they hell do they think they're doing with their new fangled computer thingys!! So the coffee shops saw a niche, took advantage of it and dinners lost a lot of patrons... Now those kids have gotten older, and they themselves don't want kids coming in and annoying them... what are they doing bringing in those new fangeled tablets? Where's the keyboard?!? It's just not right! Get those kids outa here! These sorts of coffee shops will be on the way out the door as soon as the new "Hang out and show off my techno gadget" shop opens.

Re:I know this is difficult... by Travelsonic · 2011-02-12 05:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

I know this is difficult, but ability to patronize another facility =/= no right to remark about the perceived stupidity of such a decision.

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If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot

Re:I, for one... by imthesponge · 2011-02-12 05:59 · Score: 2

Smokers suck because they leave their trash everywhere. God help you if you work with one; they'll be taking a break every 20 minutes.

So what? by techoi · 2011-02-12 06:06 · Score: 3, Funny

Their business, their rules. And hardly anything new. Victoria's Secret loves it if I bring in my wife...not so much if I bring my video camera...

Maybe people reading history should be allowed ... by perpenso · 2011-02-12 06:23 · Score: 2

Our forebears, men like John Quincy Adams, worked tirelessly until slavery was extinguished. - Michelle Bachmann

Maybe people reading history textbooks should get a pass and be allowed to read. There seems to be some need. I get the attempt at humor and any and all politicians are fair game. But perhaps Bachmann did something few expected and actually made an accurate historical reference.

FYI. I am pro historical literacy not pro Bachmann.

"Adams was elected a U.S. Representative from Massachusetts after leaving office, the only president ever to do so, serving for the last 17 years of his life with far greater success than he had achieved in the presidency. Animated by his growing revulsion against slavery, Adams became a leading opponent of the Slave Power and argued that if a civil war ever broke out the president could abolish slavery by using his war powers, a correct prediction of Abraham Lincoln's use of the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863. Adams predicted the dissolution of the Union on the slavery issue, though he mistakenly predicted that if the South became independent there would be a series of bloody slave insurrections.["
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Quincy_Adams

Re:I, for one... by Wyatt+Earp · 2011-02-12 06:30 · Score: 2

Smokers are the laziest do nothing workers there are.

If I find out a job applicant is a smoker I will argue against hiring them because of the extra breaks they will be taking.

Only if they are stupid by Sycraft-fu · 2011-02-12 06:35 · Score: 2

You might notice that Starbucks, which is a wildly successful corporation, offers free WiFi and welcomes people to sit and play on the computer. Why is that? Well because the drinks and snacks are tempting to people. If they buy a drink and have nothing to do, they'll leave when their drink is done. Fine, and that result works for Starbucks, but it would be better if the bought MORE drinks. If they stay, there's a good chance they will do so.

Will they all do it? No, but then that is true of anyone who comes in. Some people will sit and talk, or read, or whatever and only purchase a single item. They are in the minority though. People like snacks and treats and when there's a ready supply, they'll usually partake.

It also isn't a problem really. The only time people using WiFi (or doing other things) and not leaving is a problem is if the dining area is completely full and there are customers that want drinks/food but only if they can enjoy it in the store. Otherwise, it is no problem. People in the store don't stop to-go orders (which are major business) and they also don't cause a problem when the place is less than capacity.

I guarantee you Starbucks can do the math and they've determined free WiFi makes them more money.

I know more than a few people who like to work in coffee shops when they get the opportunity. WiFi is a requirement since it is computer work. They don't go and refuse to buy anything, if they were just after WiFi they'd stay home. They buy coffee, soda, snacks, and so on. The whole reason they go to the coffee shop (other than just a change of scenery) is that they can get drinks and snacks.

Re:I, for one... by FuckingNickName · 2011-02-12 06:47 · Score: 2

You would be turning down Einstein, Edison, Bell, Oppenheimer, Hubble, Freud, Churchill, Roosevelt, Kennedy and, until recently, Obama. Hope that's OK with you.

Re:I, for one... by Wyatt+Earp · 2011-02-12 07:01 · Score: 3, Funny

Since none of them have any IT skills, their resumes wouldn't have got them an interview, so yea its not a problem.

kindle disguised as book? by VeryLargeNumber · 2011-02-12 07:53 · Score: 2

How about a kindle sleeve disguising it as a (non e) book?:)

The best place for wifi in DC by Presto+Vivace · 2011-02-12 08:17 · Score: 2

is the Luce Center, where, in addition to free wifi, they have a special table set up for laptops. From Wednesday - Sunday they have FREE coffee and tea from 12 - 4 PM. Slightly off topic, but good to know if you are in DC.

Re:I, for one... by zippthorne · 2011-02-12 08:24 · Score: 2

No he wouldn't. Those guys didn't take "smoke breaks." They would've just smoked in your face.

In today's era, they'd probably never have started smoking.

Plus.. that's a helluva list. I think there's like three guys on there I'd actually want to work with. None of whom were heads of state or giants of industry...

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Can you be Even More Awesome?!

[[WP:WEASEL]] {{citeneeded}} by Animats · 2011-02-12 09:08 · Score: 5, Insightful

"Many indie New York City cafes now heavily restrict, or ban outright, the use of Kindles, Nooks and iPads."

That sentence should have been followed by the names of some cafes, and an interview with an owner. But no. So it's just blithering.

The Times is slipping.

Starbucks Doesn't Know Jack by QuincyDurant · 2011-02-12 09:18 · Score: 3, Funny

These fools have somehow stumbled their way into ~$11 billion in annual revenue by letting people hang out and use computers. But, any day now, one of those Indies that knows more about running coffeehouses is going to blow them away. Caribou Coffee, with 451 stores, offers much better coffee than that unpopular junk sold in Starbucks' 11,000 locations.

It's really hard to know why anyone would think of emulating a business model as clearly as unsuccessful as Starbucks:

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Starbucks_(SBUX)

So take your Kindle and shove it where the sun don't shine, partner. We don't need your kind around here.

RTFA - it's bullshit by RevWaldo · 2011-02-12 09:33 · Score: 2

It makes no mention of which coffee shops are making such bans, and offers no other citations on the "issue". It's mostly a wiki-dump of the history of coffee shops going back to the 16th century. This is about the only article I could find noting this "trend" - from August 2010, a lifetime ago tech-wise. The main issue being that some shops banned "computers", either outright or during certain hours, with no differentiation between laptops, tablets, or e-readers (or smartphones for that matter).

It's a non-issue, a bump in the road. These shops, what few there are, will eventually adjust their policies. Nothing to see here, move along.

.

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Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!

Re:I know this is difficult... by Duradin · 2011-02-12 11:18 · Score: 3, Insightful

But, in the name of Freedom, we must force every business to adapt to every customer's wants, whether it is profitable for the business or not!

If you don't force Ford dealerships to sell new Chevys you must hate freedom.

Not conforming to every customer's wants is censorship!

</parody>

Re:Radio Snack by srmalloy · 2011-02-12 11:30 · Score: 2

Sadly, I don't think there are enough tinkerers around anymore to make such a store profitable. We are relatively few and far between, much too scattered to make such a place viable... people would have to travel too far to get there.

Integrated circuits were the death of the electronics tinkerer, and smart projects using Arduinos and other low-powered processors haven't brought them back in anywhere the same numbers, likely because of the perceived learning cliff of becoming a 'computer programmer'.

Embrace WIFI by Enonu · 2011-02-12 13:21 · Score: 2

I've YET to come across a coffee shop that embraces having WIFI at their establishment. It's like they just add it like decoration, and then whine and complain when there's a side-effect on how customers interact with the business. Here's some ideas:

Let's me order a drink or snack from my device w/o having to stand at the counter for 10 minutes listening to the espresso grinder and steamer.
Had some type of minimums for time spent. I'm totally fine with $5/hr if I'm taking up table space.
For that $5/hr, there should be a retractable Ethernet cord and power plug on the table itself. Awesome, nobody is going to trip over my power brick.
Hell, how about the ability to change the music like juke-boxes in 50s style-cafes?
Add that quarter to change the song to my tab, and let me checkout using paypal or whatever.

That's just off the top of my head. Come on "indie" coffee shop owners, this is easy. Have your establishment embrace WIFI and the customers who want to use it! Please!

Fine, I shall feed the troll by captjc · 2011-02-13 03:42 · Score: 2

Oh, please. You can't equate skin color (something you can't control) to choosing to take an electronic device with you.

No one is forcing you to bring in electronic devices. You can leave it in the car or in your bag or at home. No one is forcing you to patronize their establishment either.

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