Foreign Hackers Attack Canadian Government

Re:While you're getting hacked I'm getting by lul_wat · 2011-02-16 22:05 · Score: 0, Flamebait

ps. Check out my doubles.

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Divide a cake by zero. Is it still a cake?

China Ain't Too Bright by kyrio · 2011-02-16 22:08 · Score: 2

Attacking every country for gains which are likely worth nothing. Great way to get yourself banned from the playground.

Re:China Ain't Too Bright by c0lo · 2011-02-16 22:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

Great way to get yourself banned from the playground.
This can't happen overnight... it already owns too many balls, not to mention the playground and some referees... better get used to how the game is played nowadays.

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Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-16 22:16 · Score: 0

Yeah right, like any country is going to do much about it. Everybody wants a piece of the pie. There'll be stern warnings and that will be all. (Captcha: showdown)
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by antifoidulus · 2011-02-16 22:16 · Score: 3, Interesting

It's actually a lot more complicated than this. China buys a TON of natural resources from Canada(and info on said resources is probably one of the most likely targets). Canada is probably in even more of a bind vis a vis China then the United States is. While Canada's government isn't nearly as indebted to the Chinese as the Americans are, the Canadian economy depends much more on selling to China than the US economy does. Of course on the flip side if you eliminate access to Canadian resources all of a sudden Chinese manufacturing becomes much more uncompetitive.

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Monstar L
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by thoughtsatthemoment · 2011-02-16 22:22 · Score: 1

Obvious China ain't too bright attacking every country for gains which are likely worth nothing. It should attacking every country for gains which are worth a lot and single out inexperienced players like China as the bad guy. Or China shloud build it's own playground and pretend to be the good guy.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Compaqt · 2011-02-16 23:16 · Score: 2

No kidding. When will they learn there's no money in moose futures?

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I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-16 23:21 · Score: 0

Why should China make attempts to cover it up? You just said it yourself: they have total plausible deniability. No matter how many attacks originate from China, they can always say "Oh but it was just some individual or you faked it". Hell, even if you'd find definitive proof China's government was the culprit, they'd just be all like "No comment! Not like you could do anything about it anyway. We'le fleakin' China, bitches!" :D
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by merlock18 · 2011-02-16 23:36 · Score: 1

Seward wouldn't agree.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by merlock18 · 2011-02-16 23:39 · Score: 1

They arent attacking anyone. They are data mining ilegally and getting caught. Espionage isnt an attack yet. Theyre getting really close though...
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Mashiki · 2011-02-16 23:41 · Score: 5, Informative

Canada's largest export partner is the US, the second is Europe(all). All of Asia combined ranks 3rd, but we still export more materials to Japan and India than China. Unless you're counting either coal, or nickle. Really if you eliminate Canadian resources? The world goes for a shit spin, mighty fast because ~30-35% of the market just went poof.
Really though? If China pulls shit and we take our ball and go home, not much will happen in Canada. We have other markets(south america, and russia--along with various others not mentioned) which we can continue to supply goods to. It will hurt china more, than it will hurt us.

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Om, nomnomnom...
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 00:27 · Score: 2, Interesting

It's actually a lot more complicated than this. China buys a TON of natural resources from Canada(and info on said resources is probably one of the most likely targets). Canada is probably in even more of a bind vis a vis China then the United States is. While Canada's government isn't nearly as indebted to the Chinese as the Americans are, the Canadian economy depends much more on selling to China than the US economy does. Of course on the flip side if you eliminate access to Canadian resources all of a sudden Chinese manufacturing becomes much more uncompetitive.
Well, Canada could always sell these resources to India instead. The two countries are currently in free trade talks:
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2010/11/12/canada-india-free-trade.html
One interesting fact about China is that its current average age is 40, so in twenty years it will be 60. India has an average age of about 20 currently.
China is probably approaching the height of its economic power before its population becomes silver, and so they're racing to become rich before they get old.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Ihmhi · 2011-02-17 00:28 · Score: 1

Well, the Canadians told them to get away from their shitty firewall, but the Chinese wouldn't listen.

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Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by c0lo · 2011-02-17 00:49 · Score: 1

Next time, ask them kindly using the "Guo Biao Kuozhan" charset, the Simplified Chinese won't do (and, for the sake of God, don't try French or Vietnamese scripts, too many accents... makes the writing too complicated to understand ;) )

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Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by commodore6502 · 2011-02-17 00:57 · Score: 1

"Attack" seems a poor choice of words. In the cold war days we simply called this "spying" or "espionage". The fact the spies are now sitting behind computers instead of sneaking into buildings doesn't require a new word.
It's really just gov't propaganda. "Oh horror! Our country was ATTACKED! We need to lockdown the internet, so we can save you."

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Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by lorenlal · 2011-02-17 01:01 · Score: 1

That or... Maybe they're trying to find a way to get access to SIPRNet? Canada is a trusted ally of the United States and does have access to some of our secure networks.
The chances of actually getting access to SIRPNet would be low, but maybe the possible payoff is enough for them to try anyway?
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 01:03 · Score: 0

One interesting fact about China is that its current average age is 40, so in twenty years it will be 60.
That's.... that's not how averages work...
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by pokyo · 2011-02-17 01:12 · Score: 0

Can we please stop personifying China. It is quite annoying to read peoples assumptions that just because an attack originated from China it was organized by their government. This is ./, we are brighter than this.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 02:01 · Score: 0

This is ./, we are brighter than this.
Citation needed.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Trails · 2011-02-17 02:01 · Score: 3, Funny

Of course it is!!! China's population is entirely static. No one is being born and no one will die. In 1200 years their average age will be 1240!!! Then they're really fucked.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by MasaMuneCyrus · 2011-02-17 02:07 · Score: 2

It actually did happen overnight -- but due to the Senkaku Islands incident. The entire world is scrambling to create alternatives to China, and East-Asian nations are basically saying, "USA, get back in here!"
The fact is that, while people around the world adore "China," nobody likes the People's Republic, their leadership, their ideals, or their actions. That dislike is rapidly turning into animosity, both from the public and officials. Except maybe Myanmar and Pakistan.
It's worth mentioning that Chinese people don't like the government, either.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 02:15 · Score: 0

Sorry, but that last point needs to be challenged.
There are enough people who harbour a dislike toward the government, but I've met (and even been taught mandarin by) Chinese people who are reassured by the patriarchial governance and dislike those who challenge the ideals. Like any society, there's a balance between amicability and animosity toward political figures.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by kevinNCSU · 2011-02-17 02:17 · Score: 2

One interesting fact about China is that its current average age is 40, so in twenty years it will be 60.
It scares me that this might not be a joke, and that is has been modded Interesting. Windmills do not work that way!
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by aveldina · 2011-02-17 02:29 · Score: 4, Informative

Which part of the country do you live in? In general it seems you're correct. However it's worth mentioning that out here in the frozen prairies much of the current economic strength, especially in Saskatchewan, has been coming from potash. You can't hear a discussion about potash and not hear China mentioned at least once, China is a huge buyer of the potash produced here. The price of potash has gone up significantly in recent years and they rely on it. Having China refuse to buy potash might not hurt people out in the east, but in the prairies we certainly would be impacted by it.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by ffreeloader · 2011-02-17 02:30 · Score: 1

Well, with their policies on their own people having children, their average age pretty much has to keep on going up for the foreseeable future. The way it is, for every child there has to be at least two adults. Most likely it's going to be 6 adults per child fairly soon as grandparents on each side of the family will have only 1 grandchild between them. That's 4 grandparents and 2 parents per child, plus any great-grandparents.. The average age is going to rise rapidly.

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"while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by realityimpaired · 2011-02-17 02:31 · Score: 4, Funny

Well, it's a language barrier thing. Canadian for "fuck off" is "would you please consider leaving at your convenience?" :)
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Trails · 2011-02-17 02:39 · Score: 1

Yes, because the children today have no grandparents. Grand parents are clearly trending upward.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 02:56 · Score: 0

One interesting fact about China is that its current average age is 40, so in twenty years it will be 60.
I was not aware that they changed their 1-child policy to a no-child policy?
Even if they had done so, the statement is still bollocks.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Antisyzygy · 2011-02-17 03:11 · Score: 1

Actually, I work with quite a few Chinese people at a lab here in Houston. This is what they told me. If you are an only child, and you marry someone who is an only child, then you can have two children. However, if either parent is not an only child they can only have one child. It used to be 1 child per family, but they changed it.

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That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Antisyzygy · 2011-02-17 03:13 · Score: 1

China attacks by erosion. They steal American product ideas, produce them cheaper in China, and out compete us. Then there is the hacking seemingly not so interesting things. However, over time, they accumulate a significant advantage.

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That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 03:19 · Score: 0

China is currently an insignificant trading partner. Canada depends on the US market. 75% of exports are to the US.
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/gblec02a-eng.htm
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 03:37 · Score: 0

Cute. Unfortunately, the scary part is you are wrong. To borrow from (and apologies to) Futurama. In China, Windmill cools you.
In case you don't already know this, china has strict population controls. A side effect of which is that there is 1 child per 2 adults. Care to do some statistical analysis now?
Let me help you out. Working from random bullshit numbers, lets say there are 1billion working adults in china. Average age of 40. So now we have half a billion married couples. Each couple has NO MORE than 1 child. Which means, under ideal numbers, no more than HALF your population is born every year. (have you figured it out yet?) So.... That means that in 20 years, you have 1.5 billion adults, average age 53.3. Obviously these are wildly off because I didn't bother to find proper stats for the population breakdown.
BUT, the key point here is that with population controls as they are, China's "average age" goes up faster than almost anywhere else on earth.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by BJ_Covert_Action · 2011-02-17 03:47 · Score: 1

Meh, your neighbors down here in the south (The U.S.) could probably buy up your potash, as we seem completely intent on shutting down all of our own mines of the stuff. (Mostly because the neighbors think is smells bad, from what I can gather).

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Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by cyfer2000 · 2011-02-17 03:48 · Score: 1

"One interesting fact about China is that its current average age is 40, so in twenty years it will be 60. "
This is interesting indeed. In two years, I am going to be as old as my elder brother. This makes me happy.

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There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Nadaka · 2011-02-17 03:49 · Score: 3, Interesting

The Communist Party is China is the Han race is the Communist Party.
They are a racist authoritarian theocratic (their religion is the Communist Party) regime with a lot of support from a lot of their citizens.
There are exceptions, but most of them either left china, have been imprisoned/killed or say nothing out of fear.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by tixxit · 2011-02-17 03:58 · Score: 2

There seems to be a trend of people overestimating the Chinese market. China is still largely an export country. They have tons of their own natural resources and they have artificially kept their dollar low to keep the flow of goods going out and not coming in.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 04:20 · Score: 0

This can't happen overnight... it already owns too many balls
No wonder the Canadian sentiments are becoming testy, or testicly, as they allegedly say there in Canada.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 04:39 · Score: 0

Well, by then he'll be two years older, but worry not, you're catching up! When you were 2 and he was 4 you were half his age. When you were 10 and he was 12, you were 5/6ths his age, every year you get a little closer!
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by gfreeman · 2011-02-17 04:46 · Score: 1

The US will stop importing oil way before China stops importing potash. A billion mouths have to be fed somehow.

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Ceci n'est pas un sig.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 04:51 · Score: 2, Funny

p>This can't happen overnight... it already owns too many balls
with a billion people, around 50% male.....that must be like a billion balls
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Abstrackt · 2011-02-17 04:52 · Score: 5, Funny

Well, it's a language barrier thing. Canadian for "fuck off" is "would you please consider leaving at your convenience?" :)
As a Canadian, this comment offends me. Sorry about that.

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They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 04:54 · Score: 0

Dude, you're assuming that no oldies die in those 20 years of your calculations.
Also, the controls are not as strict as you make out. In rural areas (i.e. most of the population) if you have a girl, you're allowed a second child. If your boy child is mentally or physically deficient, you're allowed a second child. If you can pay the government for a permit, you're allowed a second child. If you're a Chinese immigrant returning to your motherland (i.e. China) from overseas, you're allowed a second child. If you're an ethnic minority (i.e. not Han), your allowances are doubled (i.e. two children, or up to four if the above exceptions apply to you also).
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 05:39 · Score: 1

It is like saying "China will not buy Alberta oil" - the statement is idiotic and pointless. China needs potash, so it will have to get it elsewhere. Then Canada will sell to countries that cannot get them from those sources anymore. This just means more shipping and higher prices for everyone.
I hope this was clear enough. It applies just the same to ALL resources.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Khyber · 2011-02-17 05:40 · Score: 1

You dropping potash exports would just make us buy it up here in the USA or Europe.
Our farms need that.

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Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Xer0ss · 2011-02-17 05:42 · Score: 4, Funny

As one Canadian to another would you please consider leaving at your convenience?
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 06:04 · Score: 0

China Ain't Too Bright. Attacking every country for gains which are likely worth nothing.
The first question to ask yourself is always "who benefits?". If a nation, especially a large and influential one such as China, does something that can only be bad for them, then you should ask yourself whether they really did it or whether someone else is trying to pin something on them that they didn't do.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 07:28 · Score: 0

well, the prairies can always go back to what they've been doing good for a while: wheat and beef
your potash is a perk
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Mashiki · 2011-02-17 08:32 · Score: 1

I live in Ontario. But you're right, in the prairies(atleast sk), the talk of the day for the last couple of years has been china and potash. In Manitoba, it's grain exports to europe, in alberta it's exports of oil/coal/other minerals like copper to everywhere. In BC it's mainly forestry, gold, and fish(like out on the east coast). Ontario in the south is mainly ahhhfuck...where's the industry at? Northern it's tourism, mining, and forestry. Quebec? Yeah well...most of that is power generation and exports of it to the US with a few other things. And of course the far north is diamonds, and gold.
If China refuses to buy potash, we can sell anywhere to anyone. That market is limitless, especially when you consider that there's a shortage of it in europe and australia right now.

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Om, nomnomnom...
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 08:35 · Score: 0

I'm Canadian and I agree. Our politicians are a bunch of pathetic, neutered lapdogs to countries that lead. We have what it takes to be a part of the big show, but sell out like a well trained puppy to whatever the Brits and Americans tell us to do. Weak
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by tqk · 2011-02-17 08:36 · Score: 1

Well, it's a language barrier thing. Canadian for "fuck off" is "would you please consider leaving at your convenience?" :)
As a Canadian, this comment offends me. Sorry about that.
Well, as another Canadian, you're not allowed to feel offended at that. Canucks have kicked holy butt down through the years. Ask the Dutch what they think of us. Ask my dad what it was like to freeze your butt off in the tail of a B-17 bomber acting as targets to make the me-109s come up to try to kill you.
Besides, Const. Benton Fraser made one hell of a great gig out of exactly this (Due South). "Thank you kindly." No need for beligerence. I'll hold the door open for you to leave. Good day.

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"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by tqk · 2011-02-17 08:45 · Score: 1

with a billion people, around 50% male.....that must be like a billion balls
Considering the vast majority of those males come by two naturally, you're off by a factor of fifty?

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"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by tqk · 2011-02-17 08:47 · Score: 1

Sorry, ignore that comment please & thanks.

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"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 08:52 · Score: 0

In another 100 years, we'll be going to war with China to discover their secret of immortality. Only then, you can say you're really scared.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by tqk · 2011-02-17 08:56 · Score: 1

It's actually a lot more complicated than this. China buys a TON of natural resources from Canada ...
Which is pretty damned incredible when you stop to think about it. How the heck does Canada have a market in China when China's next door to Russia, the rest of the Orient, and Europe?!? Russia ought to be cleaning up, yet we ship across the Pacific?
Weird.

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"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by QRDeNameland · 2011-02-17 08:56 · Score: 1

Well, it's a language barrier thing. Canadian for "fuck off" is "would you please consider leaving at your convenience?" :)
Actually, Canadian for "fuck off" is Fuddle Duddle.

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Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by tqk · 2011-02-17 09:12 · Score: 1

If you're an ethnic minority (i.e. not Han), your allowances are doubled (i.e. two children, or up to four if the above exceptions apply to you also).
Er, what? China's promoting ethnic diversity? What're they doing that for? I thought they were into persecuting it or ignoring it exists.

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"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by tqk · 2011-02-17 09:23 · Score: 1

Yeah, you refuted that argument real well. :-P

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"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by QRDeNameland · 2011-02-17 09:30 · Score: 1

China buys a TON of natural resources from Canada.
What's the opposite of hyperbole? Hypobole?

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Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by rarespotted · 2011-02-17 10:34 · Score: 1

It's actually a lot more complicated than this. China buys a TONNE of natural resources from Canada(and info on said resources is probably one of the most likely targets). Canada is probably in even more of a bind vis a vis China then the United States is. While Canada's government isn't nearly as indebted to the Chinese as the Americans are, the Canadian economy depends much more on selling to China than the US economy does. Of course on the flip side if you eliminate access to Canadian resources all of a sudden Chinese manufacturing becomes much more uncompetitive.
Fixed that for you ;)
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by laddiebuck · 2011-02-17 10:58 · Score: 1

Right, so if your first child is a girl or mentally deficient, or you're very, very rich, or you're not a member of the dominant race, then you can have a second child... Right, so none of the conditions are exactly calculated to increase the productive workforce then, are they now?
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 13:34 · Score: 0

As someone with experience (but not much) with SIPRNet, I find it hard to believe the Canadians have any access to it. Computers on SIPRNet are physically separate from NIPRNet/Internet and when we had Canuck visitors they couldn't be anywhere near the SIPRNet computers.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 13:59 · Score: 0

Uhm... this is totally false. I know a lot of Chinese people, and I have been to China multiple times. The government is bad, that's true. But...
1. People actually in China don't know what the government does. (Since, after all, the government censors the news!)
2. It doesn't affect most normal people in any dramatic way. (Most people with normal lives don'T get hauled off to Guantanimo Bay in the US either).
3. People who know don't agree with it in most cases, but aren't going to risk life and limb for some stupid crap the government is trying to pull. Nobody wants to stick their finger in a bee's nest. When they do agree, it's usually because if misinformation they have been fed.
4. There are many minority races in China, not just the Han. Most Chinese people seem not racist at all. If they don't like countries (like Japan), it is because of history, not color.
5. They support CCP because they support their country in general, and CCP is running the show right now. Also, from a practical point of view, government jobs = good jobs. Most older people support CCP, while most younger people do not.
The point is, the Chinese people are not their government. This is even true in the US (How many people really wanted Bush elected? How many thought Iraq was a good idea? Guantanimo bay?) - but it's much more true in China.
Re:China Ain't Too Bright by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-18 02:15 · Score: 0

As another Canadian jumping in here I agree with Xer0ss.

trojan by mirix · 2011-02-16 22:12 · Score: 2

I was sort of half asleep on the drive home, but the radio made it sound like some moron installed a trojan (presumably hot_pic_of_me.jpg.exe), which then scraped internal networks (that should have had better access control, no doubt) for anything interesting. It was pretty vague but that's about what I picked up from it.

Sounds like amateur night anyhow. Maybe they've got HBGary running their security.

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Sent from my PDP-11

Re:trojan by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 02:02 · Score: 0

presumably hot_pic_of_me.jpg.exe
It's an unfortunate truth that the people who need the sensitive data and have the most access to it are the people who are generally technologically illiterate and fall for this kind of shit.
Re:trojan by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 05:41 · Score: 0

Rumor is they used a .pdf to deliver the pay load. Since most departments are a couple version behinds on reader it was a fairly easy thing to do.

Why even connect sensitive computers to the net? by KClaisse · 2011-02-16 22:17 · Score: 1

What I can't seem to wrap my head around is why they would even have that kind of information on a computer that is open to the internet. Why on earth would you expose sensitive computers to the world for anyone to hack? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Re:While you're getting hacked I'm getting by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-16 22:22 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Wanna loose karma? Well done.

How far is too far? by Haffner · 2011-02-16 22:22 · Score: 4, Insightful

All the news of China's hacking attempts, compounded with the links many of those have to government, begs the question: "How far is too far?" When will the US (or the international community) hold China accountable and force them to stop these actions? The way I see it, what they are doing is worse than firing shells over a border. This could easily be a buildup for a larger attack, yet no one has done anything substantial yet.

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"Going to war without the French is like going deer hunting without your accordion." ~General Norman Schwarzkopf

Re:How far is too far? by migla · 2011-02-16 23:08 · Score: 1

The US or the international community won't force China. We only force weak countries that don't pose any real threat, like Saddams Iraq after more than a decade of UN sanctions and with no WMD:s.

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Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
Re:How far is too far? by Haffner · 2011-02-16 23:22 · Score: 3, Interesting

I think the big difference here is that the financial crimes that were committed stemmed from behavior that was initially within the law before greed took over. On the other hand, hacking another country's government has never been within the law.

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"Going to war without the French is like going deer hunting without your accordion." ~General Norman Schwarzkopf
Re:How far is too far? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-16 23:57 · Score: 0

It won't happen. Most countries are plutocracies these days, the EU gets by because each country has an image to uphold, and will try to do the right thing only because of that. The USA, well, they've been bought and sold for decades.
But it's not really an issue, China is experiencing a growth right now, but all growths eventually slow down, stop and drop back again, the only difference is, that when it happens, a controlled system like theirs will simply implode, it won't have the benefits of an open market like the others. Basically it's a matter of time, everything balances out sooner or later.
Re:How far is too far? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 00:03 · Score: 0

The way I see it, what they are doing is worse than firing shells over a border.
Did anybody die?
The West has a long and inglorious history of using espionage to aid domestic industry. China is doing exactly the same thing, only using technology to do it faster and cheaper. When the CIA and NSA (or whatever the spy organizations in your country call themselves) have been disbanded I'll agree that China is doing something unfair. Until then, what's your complaint?
Re:How far is too far? by tomthepom · 2011-02-17 00:05 · Score: 0, Troll

the financial crimes that were committed stemmed from behavior that was initially within the law before greed took over.
And rape stems from behaviour that is initially within the law before lust takes over.
Re:How far is too far? by david.given · 2011-02-17 00:25 · Score: 3, Informative

This could easily be a buildup for a larger attack, yet no one has done anything substantial yet.
Some actual hard evidence that China is involved in any any meaningful way would be nice.
From the article:

They caution, however, that there is no way of knowing whether the hackers are Chinese, or some other nationality routing their cybercrimes through China to cover their tracks.
Re:How far is too far? by R2.0 · 2011-02-17 02:02 · Score: 5, Interesting

The problem is that the Chinese government isn't doing it - they are simply giving others license to do it, with assurances of government protection and payment.
Sound familiar? It is - it's called privateering. It used to be done with ships on the sea; now it's done with computers on the internet. While China may not be at war with us, their use of privateers is proof that they do NOT mean us well.
So how do we combat it? Article I, Section 8, paragraph 11 of the U.S. Constitution authorizes Congress to "grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water." Imagine if the US Congress granted Google the authority to go after China - can you imagine how much havoc that would wreak if Google employees focused 20% of their time on fucking with China?

--
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
Re:How far is too far? by Trails · 2011-02-17 02:05 · Score: 1

Rape is not driven by lust. It's an act of subjugation. Rape is not sexy, it's horrible, that's the point.
Re:How far is too far? by tomthepom · 2011-02-17 03:38 · Score: 1

Believe me I understand this, but I think you missed my point - and where on earth did you read in my post that rape was sexy??
Maybe I should have added a 'sarcasm' tag.
Re:How far is too far? by digitalPhant0m · 2011-02-17 04:11 · Score: 1

When will the US (or the international community) hold China accountable and force them to stop these actions?
As soon as it is no longer profitable to allow such behavior.
Re:How far is too far? by marcosdumay · 2011-02-17 06:31 · Score: 1

The US (or the international community*) will hold China accountable the day they are willing to start World War III. I guess China can do much worse things than some spying around before people let the nukes fly around.
By the way, the US can always deal with hina by economical means, but that won't stop the spying.
* WTF is that anyway?

--
Rethinking email
Re:How far is too far? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 08:28 · Score: 0

Umm... How would you 'force them to stop'? Declare war? And ummm firing shells KILLS PEOPLE, it is infinitely worse.
All this is reminiscent of cold-war. Soviet bombers regularly infiltrated North American airspace. Why? Probe the defenses, figure out if there were any blind-spots, find radar locations etc.
Of course the Chinese are probing western gov't computer networks. And guess what, the Americans are probing Chinese and the French are probing the Americans and the Russians are probing the Estonian and ...
It is funny this is note-worthy really.
Re:How far is too far? by twebb72 · 2011-02-17 10:40 · Score: 1

By the way, the US can always deal with China by economical means
You've got that the other way around. We are indebted to China.
Re:How far is too far? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 15:23 · Score: 0

That would be awesome. I mean Google already has their own business of disagreements happening with China. Being given the green light to go toe to toe might really energize them. On the other hand...
Re:How far is too far? by marcosdumay · 2011-02-18 03:26 · Score: 1

And so? You can choose to pay, or not to pay that debt any time you want. Both will have consequences, some that you'll like, others that you won't like. You can also stop importing from them, control outsourcing, or stop any other kind of deal you think you should.
It is quite interesting if you think what would happen if you pushed a Russia and stopped exporting to China. I've never undertood mercantilism anyway.

--
Rethinking email

Executive spear-phising by c0lo · 2011-02-16 22:22 · Score: 3, Interesting

TFA

How it was done
In the world of cybercops, it is called "executive spear-phishing."

This is what you get if the executives you have are fishes, no matter (or even easier) if they look/behave like sharks.

--
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.

Re:Executive spear-phising by antifoidulus · 2011-02-16 22:40 · Score: 3, Funny

Q: How can you tell the difference between a spear phisher and an actual sys admin?
A: The spear phisher is polite.

--
Monstar L

Re:Why even connect sensitive computers to the net by somersault · 2011-02-16 22:26 · Score: 1

Define "sensitive". You have sensitive information on your own computer, yet you expose it to the internet too. At some point it will come down to convenience and efficiency. For some things, there's no way around it, unless you want to have every single conversation and do every single transaction in person.

--
which is totally what she said

The REAL story by pasv · 2011-02-16 22:27 · Score: 0

BREAKING 0DAY NEWS: Humans still vulnerable to social engineering with dumb emails! Fix the human, fix the problem.

Re:The REAL story by DarwinSurvivor · 2011-02-16 23:29 · Score: 5, Insightful

This attack could have been EASILY avoided using 1 simple system: PGP digital signing. Give every government address a PGP key and set up a government public key repository. Any company doing work with the government has no excuse for not being able to do the same.

You then set up the email servers to block any email with attachments that isn't signed by a trusted key.

PGP signing (and even encryption in most cases) is so pathetically easy to set up, the fact that governments don't MANDATE it for internal use (and even external use for anything other than simple civilian inquiries) is absolutely unforgivable.
Re:The REAL story by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 00:34 · Score: 0

That would allow signed anonymous leaking (see ring signatures) they "do not want" that.
Re:The REAL story by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 00:40 · Score: 0

What you outline would do NOTHING to prevent this particular attack. In fact, it would help it. Read the article. Hackers *first* gained access to government computers. It is only then that emails are sent out from those compromised computers/accounts. The same staff will be conned to provide key passwords if they were PGP signed. The same email attachments with viruses can still be sent out.
Which vector was used for the initial hack? Who knows. They probably won't ever say. Maybe it was typical click-me-to-clean-your-computer ads. Maybe it was autorun. But PGP won't do a damn thing to prevent this.
Re:The REAL story by c · 2011-02-17 01:09 · Score: 5, Informative

> This attack could have been EASILY avoided
> using 1 simple system: PGP digital signing.
The Canadian government is in the process of rolling out a digital signature system... unfortunately, it's Entrust rather than an open solution like PGP, and it looks like it's going to be cumbersome enough that it won't get used in situations it's not absolutely necessary for.
Because it's not based on open standards it can't be used for external communications which makes it rather infeasible to block all unencrypted attachments. Which would be a bad idea, anyways, given the small fraction of "protected" information on unclassified networks (i.e. ones which communicate with the outside world).

--
Log in or piss off.
Re:The REAL story by tabrnaker · 2011-02-17 06:33 · Score: 1

I used to work for the canadian gov't. This would never fly because most of the admins can't wrap their head around something like PGP let alone the non-techs.
Non-techs can't even seem to follow the rule of locking their computers when not at their desks. They tried to be more secure by adding short expirations for passwords without the ability to recycle passwords and passwords having to be different for each system. So what happens? A plethora of yellow stickies on monitors with everybodies latest passwords.
Hell, when i was there the tech people couldn't even understand what a video card with digital output was, 'it's a computer so it's all digital right?'.
Besides, this is nothing special, this happened more than once every notable holiday where people send those stupid digital cards which have always been expressly forbidden. My guess is that the big story is 'China bad man!', and probably only because they've finally learned how to trace attacks one hop backwards.
It's all propaganda against China, because of course all these chinese hackers breaking into govts everywhere are too stupid to use a proxy. Geeks shouldn't fall for this type of propaganda, but the majority will. The question is, why all the propaganda against China? My slightly conspiratorial view is that it will make it so much easier for the states to default on everything it owes China, but i guess we'll see in a few years.
Re:The REAL story by tabrnaker · 2011-02-17 06:37 · Score: 1

Ah, gotta love the stupidy of the canadian government. I remember when we bought some stupid search engine technology from the US gov't (that should have been a clue). Problem with the search engine, doesn't actually search documents, only meta-data. Problem with that, virtually no documents had meta-data. Absolutely useless for any of us who worked there, so everybody had their own link farms.

Re:Why even connect sensitive computers to the net by KClaisse · 2011-02-16 22:32 · Score: 1

I'll use whatever the government defines as sensitive.

Oh no! by EnsilZah · 2011-02-16 22:43 · Score: 1

The Chinese may have acquired... *dramatic pause* stealth mÃÃse technology!

Re:Oh no! by EnsilZah · 2011-02-16 22:46 · Score: 2

Hmm, that'll teach me to preview before using non-ASCII characters.
The word was 'moose' in case anyone is wondering, and apparently the technology is already in use.
Re:Oh no! by qmaqdk · 2011-02-16 22:59 · Score: 1

Maybe we should...
*puts on sunglasses*
...start hunting.
YYYYYEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

--
My UID is prime. Hah!
Re:Oh no! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-16 23:09 · Score: 0

Damn Moose and Squirrel.
Re:Oh no! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-16 23:21 · Score: 0

Yeah, it's hilarious how the all-new web 2.0 slashdot still can't do unicode. I guess they value the "lameness" filter above usefulness.
Re:Oh no! by dotancohen · 2011-02-17 02:27 · Score: 1

Hmm, that'll teach me to preview before using non-ASCII characters.
The word was 'moose' in case anyone is wondering, and apparently the technology is already in use.
A m00se once bit my sister.

--
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.

Re:Why even connect sensitive computers to the net by somersault · 2011-02-16 22:43 · Score: 2

That would probably be everything they do, including all email, which by necessity has to travel via the internet. There will of course be different levels of classification, and hopefully they'd encrypt the "more sensitive" stuff.. but really, even if there are good security policies in place, quite frankly a lot of people are idiots when it comes to using computers, and will make mistakes anyway. Mistakes like running a trojan, which makes a lot of security measures useless, if for example the trojan did keylogging, screengrabbing, etc..

--
which is totally what she said

yeah, right by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-16 22:45 · Score: 0

because chinese ip means its chinese goverment. Really, give me a break. Its like CIA doing industrial espionage using traceable federal government computers.
How difficult is to use chinese zombies for attack?

Re:While you're getting hacked I'm getting by lul_wat · 2011-02-16 22:58 · Score: 1, Offtopic

What're you gonna loosen it with?

--
Divide a cake by zero. Is it still a cake?

I'm not afraid to open my email ... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-16 23:08 · Score: 0

It's dead easy to prevent trojans from infecting a computer. That the Canadian government was too clueless to do this is criminal.

Heads should roll; especially since the auditor general warned them it would happen.

Re:I'm not afraid to open my email ... by tabrnaker · 2011-02-17 06:42 · Score: 1

Security by Obscurity was there motto. The first time i got fired by them was because i pointed out holes in their security which they didn't want to address because it costs money to do that. Of course they had to rehire me once i went to the ombudsman and the union. I gave up trying to improve their computer security after they fired/rehired me for the third time.

Canada? by Charliemopps · 2011-02-16 23:13 · Score: 4, Funny

What did the steal? Their recipe for maple syrup?

Re:Canada? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 00:34 · Score: 0

it's much worse than that, they stole the secret handshake for the mounties.
Re:Canada? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 00:56 · Score: 0

What did the steal? Their recipe for maple syrup?
No, they can't get that...it's in the same vault as the Coca Cola recipe.
Re:Canada? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 02:15 · Score: 0

No, just all the military and industrial secrets that Canada stole from the USA. :)
Re:Canada? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 02:19 · Score: 0

They stole Bryan Adams eh!
Re:Canada? by Laxitive · 2011-02-17 02:36 · Score: 3, Informative

God no. We keep that shit in a bunker underneath the Canadian shield, disconnected from the internet. You don't leave national secrets like that just lying around.
On a serious note, China's main interest is in Canada's natural resources. As they grow and industrialize, their need to import massive amounts of raw resources to fuel their economy and people.
For example, Saskatchewan has basically the largest natural deposits of Potash in the world. The whole province is basically potash.. dig anywhere.. and you'll hit potash. Potash is what they make fertilizer out of. Not too long ago, a chinese firm wanted to acquire Potash Corp., Saskatchewan's potash producer. There was a big ruckus raised about it internally, and eventually the sale was stopped by the federal government after the extremely popular provincial minister went on the warpath about Saskatchewan natural resources being sold to foreign interests.
I don't disagree with that move (It'd be idiotic to sell off the rights to your own land's bounty).. but China really doesn't like not being able to get what they want. While it's not proven that it was the Chinese government behind these attacks, my suspicion is that they are (occam's razor). There's a well known effort by China to influence the Canadian government and people, and it's been brought up in the national media not too long ago.
-Laxitive
Re:Canada? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 03:39 · Score: 0

Not quite correct on the sale of Posash Corp. It was an Australian company (BHP) that wanted to buy them. Potash Corp really did not like the deal, and the Saskatchewan government had reasons not to as well. They actually seemed to be hoping that a rival bid backed by Chinese interests would materialize, so that BHP wouldn't have the best bid. When that didn't materialize, then they pressured the Canadian government to disalllow the deal.
Why they prefered Chinese ownership to Australian is a big mystery to me. Seems foolish.
Re:Canada? by Laxitive · 2011-02-17 04:14 · Score: 1

You are right. I didn't have my facts straight... thanks for the correction. So yeah, BHP was bidding, as was a Chinese company. The BHP bid was scuttled, and it seems Chinese offer went down with it. As for why the execs liked the deal, it's because they would have been greatly enriched by the sale.
Quoth the CBC, in an editorial (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/10/01/f-vp-newman.html):

The executives at Potash Corp., who will benefit from a huge payout if the company is sold, are reportedly trying to organize a rival bid involving a Chinese government-owned company to drive up the sale price.
But ultimate ownership by a company from China, which is one of the biggest buyers of Saskatchewan potash, would have even greater implications for the value of the product than a sale to BHP Billiton.
So, regardless of who makes the stronger bid, the answer from both Ottawa and Saskatchewan should be the same: "Sorry. No sale."
Re:Canada? by RivenAleem · 2011-02-17 04:17 · Score: 1

And a great way to drum up some anti-selling-our-land-to-foreigners sentiments would be to let it be known that they are spying on your government.
Re:Canada? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 04:55 · Score: 0

Saskatchewan has basically the largest natural deposits of Potash in the world. The whole province is basically potash.. dig anywhere.. and you'll hit potash. Potash is what they make fertilizer out of.
Sounds like you're saying the whole province is basically shit, all the Chinese want from them is their shit, the provincial minister had a shit fit about it, and that's what started this shitstorm? I call bullshit.
Re:Canada? by Laxitive · 2011-02-17 05:05 · Score: 1

An AC pointed this out in a reply to my post correcting some factual errors in my post. It was an australian company (BHP) doing the bidding, and that was scuttled. The executives, however, were not happy with the BHP bid (which was hostile), and were trying to arrange a more lucrative deal with a Chinese company.
The federal action scuttled both potential deals. Anyway, the point is that China buys a LOT of potash from Canada, and has strategic interests in that resource.
-Laxitive
Re:Canada? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 06:19 · Score: 0

The company that tried to buy Potash Corp. last year was BHP Billiton, an Australian resources company. Not Chinese.
Re:Canada? by WindBourne · 2011-02-17 08:31 · Score: 1

Yeah, I have to say, that I have little issue with another western nation owning such resources (though I would prefer it remain local if it was in my area), HOWEVER, when you have a nation that ignores all of their treaties and is waging the equivalence of NATIONAL economic war, then it makes ZERO sense to allow them to own that.

--
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Re:Canada? by twebb72 · 2011-02-17 10:42 · Score: 1

What did the steal? Their recipe for maple syrup?
*Strong Pakistani Accent* Its funny because there is noooo recipe.. ahhhhh.

Well, in America... by Grapplebeam · 2011-02-16 23:16 · Score: 1

My tip for her would be to sensationalize this until people start paying attention. But I've never watched Canadian news, so I don't know if they're the same level of hyperbole (100%, plus or minus nothing at all, because it's 100% hyperbole).

--
There is no -1 Disagree.

Re:Well, in America... by Stormthirst · 2011-02-17 01:46 · Score: 1

I'm from the UK, but now living in Canada - so I've been brought up on the BBC News. I don't have time to watch much news, but I do get CTV here with my cable package and tend to watch it in the morning over breakfast. I have chosen to watch half an episode of Glen Beck (I got bored quarter of the way through and couldn't stomach the rest), but I do watch the Daily Show regularly.
I can say that hyperbole is an American form of reporting.
And you can keep it as far as I'm concerned!
Re:Well, in America... by Antisyzygy · 2011-02-17 03:24 · Score: 1

Thats just Fox News for you. I am not sure why its so full of bat-shit crazy people. Between that blubbering twat Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck, its a regular loonie bin.

--
That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".

Re:While you're getting hacked I'm getting by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-16 23:24 · Score: 0, Offtopic

congrats, you fell for an easy troll.

Re:What? Why!! by Keen+Anthony · 2011-02-16 23:28 · Score: 3, Interesting

"Public sentiment towards China is getting very, very testy" That sounds racist and jingoistic to you? You're kidding right? I mean, "China replacing all Canadian government documents with takeout menues" would at least sound somewhat racist. The Chinese hackers leaving a calling card in the form of an animated takeout box would too. And jingoistic, well "Oh, Canada uber alles, eh!" would sound jingoistic. Canadians marching in the street screaming, "Take off you pandas!" would be both racist and jingoistic.

This is probably a true story though. Chinese hackers have been very aggressive in the last couple of years. One suggestion I've heard was that China wants to test its limits, find vulnerable infrastructure, and so on.

Re:While you're getting hacked I'm getting by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-16 23:28 · Score: 0, Offtopic

keep posting, you dumb little faggot

soon you'll have to create some sock puppet accounts like those morons commodore64love and michealkristopeit

Re:Why even connect sensitive computers to the net by AHuxley · 2011-02-16 23:30 · Score: 1

It just doesn't make sense to me...
They like to look up Ford car parts, bathroom repair, fantasy football and correct wikipedia ect ... all from their day jobs ip

--
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"

Canada by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-16 23:32 · Score: 0

I live in the USA, we just sell them everything instead.

Re:While you're getting hacked I'm getting by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-16 23:37 · Score: 0

u mad?

Re:Why even connect sensitive computers to the net by merlock18 · 2011-02-16 23:40 · Score: 1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIPRNet I dont know about Canada but the US has theyre own worlwide network, completely separate from the WWW.

Re:What? Why!! by Mashiki · 2011-02-16 23:46 · Score: 4, Interesting

Well the first part is by and far true. We don't make enemies, hell we're the first ones the world runs to when they want mediators. Probably that whole, slow to anger, stubborn, type of thing. However, unlike in the US where shit hit the fan several times, over several things. And Americans went WTF, HOLY SHIT, CHINA...what the hell are you doing?

Canadians went...eh...okay. Dead? Nope. Carry on, government to do a better job. People as a whole here don't get angry quickly, over anything. And it takes a lot to push the general public over the edge on something. Either it has to have dire ramifications and is so fucked up for everyone(UBB is a fine example), or a lot of people have to die because of government stupidity(air india). People are getting pissed off at China here, it's taken a lot of really hard work to get people here angry. And that's saying something.

--
Om, nomnomnom...

Re:What? Why!! by merlock18 · 2011-02-16 23:49 · Score: 1

They didnt say "public sentiments towards the Chinese." Its China, not hte Chinese. The government, not the people. You wouldnt be offended if your werent shortsighted.
There is a reason the people of China have to work their asses off just to get some decent internet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Shield_Project
Why has stating facts, that mention a race, become racist lately? It getting ridiculous. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong

So some data was stolen by h00manist · 2011-02-17 00:01 · Score: 2

It's not like data leaks/traffic/theft/espionage was invented the other day and doesn't happen all the time. All the ad-tracking businesses, credit bureau, embassies, corporations, are full of undercover info smuggling all the time. You just dont *see* it very often. If they steal your data, you steal their data. It's not even violent. Heck, if you weren't so busy with those tons of skeletons in your closet, you might even think it was fun.

--
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/

'Apparently' China... by david.given · 2011-02-17 00:23 · Score: 0

...if you read TFA.

What's with all the xenophobic vilification of China these days? We're getting a steady stream of OMG CHINA EVIL articles, none of which are actually backed up by any evidence. What is this, Fox News?

Re:'Apparently' China... by cf18 · 2011-02-17 03:55 · Score: 1

The anti-chinese xenophobia on this site has been obvious for years, but it just follow general western media trend.
Take a look at this 'minor' item from wikileak that only got half a page of text:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20027157-503543.html
If the spy ranking is changed, do you think it will not show up in front pages on all media?

Re:What? Why!! by pokyo · 2011-02-17 01:16 · Score: 1

I agre, that "very very testy" statement is ridiculous. I'm Canadian, and I am not very very testy at all. I also don't judge an entire nation based on the actions of a small group.

Re:What? Why!! by afxgrin · 2011-02-17 01:18 · Score: 0

The fact remains that there's no way of proving the attack had anything to do with China except that the computers involved were from China. There are many unpatched Windows computers in China as most are using pirated copies that will likely stop working if a service packed is installed, hence leaving them vulnerable to a variety of exploits. It would be foolish to assume this had anything to do with the Chinese government.

Who said China did it? by biodata · 2011-02-17 01:19 · Score: 1

There seems to be no evidence either way, as all the routing info can be faked. Ask yourself who has most to gain? Who would gain most from the spin that China goes around hacking the Canadians? Who would like all their neighbours to sign up for some online neighborhood watch scheme for government snooping?

--
Korma: Good

This is a republican distraction technique by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 01:30 · Score: 0, Insightful

The Canadian Republican Party ("Conservative Party of Canada"), is under heat because one of its' ministers has been caught forging official documents and running political interference. Thus, the news of this was leaked to distract the public from government corruption. This is typical of the CPC, as they are known to be a particularly corrupt government.

Re:This is a republican distraction technique by canistel · 2011-02-17 02:14 · Score: 1

Right...... because no other news can possibly occur when the one news item that happens to annoy you is also being talked about.
Re:This is a republican distraction technique by tabrnaker · 2011-02-17 06:54 · Score: 1

Someone mod parent up. There has always been some big hoopla story after any news of how the conservatives are raping and pillaging canada.
I actually got so disappointed by my fellow canadians allowing such bullshit to go on that i left the country.
Canadians may have a lot of heart and lay down their lives to protect freedom in every war out there (almost, so damn proud of Chretien basically telling Bush to shove his "you're either with us or against us" where the sun don't shine over Iraq), but they're also extremely naive and stupid when someone tells them to bend over you're going to enjoy this (basically all natural resource exports to the US)

Ducks in a barrel by bl8n8r · 2011-02-17 01:34 · Score: 0

It's not surprising. I would bet the pwnage is larger than they think. Most admins I know are bright people but just simply lack the sills to even secure a resource in the nost mediocre way. In fact, many of them view the corporate lan as and extension of their home network and apply the same 'security' methods across both.

--
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org

Re:Ducks in a barrel by Trails · 2011-02-17 02:18 · Score: 2

We should believe this because the author wrote it in Courier New, making it look more like shell text, and highlighting his overall l33tn3ss.

No, it isn't. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 01:42 · Score: 1

Recently a Chinese national snuck into the country using an elaborate rubber mask. He was arrested and held as a security threat. Then, he was RELEASED, bypassing immigration entirely, and is going to Toronto where he's going to get employment. Public reaction to this nonsense IS getting testy, very testy. Nothing to do with jingoism at all.

For "months ago" read "years ago". by nedlohs · 2011-02-17 01:50 · Score: 2

Auditor-General Sheila Fraser, for one, first raised the alarm in 2002 when she warned "there are weaknesses in the system.
"There are access controls that need to be fixed; there are a whole series of minimum security issues that are not being dealt with. There are vulnerabilities. Government needs to fix them."
Three years later, Fraser checked again and found not much had changed.

Re:For "months ago" read "years ago". by JonySuede · 2011-02-17 05:45 · Score: 1

Sheila Fraser should be given the title of Canada's Emperor for life.

--
Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
Re:For "months ago" read "years ago". by nedlohs · 2011-02-17 06:11 · Score: 1

Why?
It's a fixed length non-reappointable term, making "for lfe" not an option.
And all bar two (three if you count the one acting holder) of the people who have had that title had it for longer than she has so far.
Re:For "months ago" read "years ago". by JonySuede · 2011-02-17 07:03 · Score: 1

Why:
She does an exceptionally good job, she seems to know and understand what is happening in every branch of government and here prediction are always on spot. We would be better served by a benevolent dictator like her than our current bunch of buffoons in Parliament.

--
Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected

Re:What? Why!! by Keen+Anthony · 2011-02-17 02:10 · Score: 1

That's possible, but with the number of Windows volume licenses in extraneous use, I'd bet that those machines aren't having such a difficult time being upgraded. It is known that China is aggressive in staging cyber attacks. We might not have absolute proof, and I mean "we" as in /. readers. I bet the U.S. and Canadian governments' own cyber warfare specialists have a fairly good idea of whether they're facing Chinese agents or dealing with zombies computers.

canadians are prickily nationalistic by circletimessquare · 2011-02-17 02:19 · Score: 1

they don't flaunt their nationalism, but its there and its quiet and its real

i see something concrete in response coming out of this as more likely than if europeans or americans were attacked

c'mon ottawa, do something. show that at least somebody has a backbone in response to these provocations. london or washington dc wouldn't, and didn't, do anything

--
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it

Re:canadians are prickily nationalistic by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 03:05 · Score: 0

its there and its quiet and its real
You know what isn't here? YOUR FILM LOL
Yeah, I read your excuses on gay5. Protip, it's pretty normal for set sound to be unusable (at least I read they constantly had that problem on the first Star Trek movie,) just dub it in post.

Nuke them by sproketboy · 2011-02-17 02:39 · Score: 1

We should nuke them. Oh wait we don't have any. America, mind if we borrow a few?

Oh No! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 02:43 · Score: 0

Looks like the Saskatchewan Seal Skin Bindings, we used on our wooden fire wall, was insufficient. We may need to call out the Canoe Army in preparedness for an on coming attack!

is china a school bully or a professional killer? by it5complicated · 2011-02-17 02:43 · Score: 1

Either China is the next superpower whose superiority is backed by superb cyber offense capability, or one of these days their "victims" are gonna expose their hubris and gonna send them(China) back to IT stone age. Chinese were quick off the blocks as regards information warfare Add to that their military doctrine is about hiding their strength, obscurity et al. So if they are attacking and not bothering to hide, hmmm.. What are they upto?

public sentiment - HA by RabidMonkey · 2011-02-17 02:59 · Score: 2

> It should also be noted that public sentiment towards China is getting very, very testy.

I'm part of the public, and I know lots of other members of the public - I don't see anyones sentiment anywhere near "testy" about China.

Papers, tv news, radio ... I spend a good amount of time keeping up on them, and I don't think I've heard anything 'testy' about China expressed.

Given that that statement doesn't come from the article, I'm guessing either the submitter or editor added that. Either way, stop making shit up. We have Fox News/the Toronto Sun for that

--
We emerge from our mother's womb an unformatted diskette; our culture formats us. - Douglas Coupland

Re:public sentiment - HA by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 05:57 · Score: 0

Agreed. I've heard no complaints about the Chinese. And there are lots of Chinese people here. They integrate nicely (better than any other immigrants). As for the country itself, I've heard no whities complain except for a few of the Californian Bandwagon Buddhist types bitching about Tibet.
Re:public sentiment - HA by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 13:23 · Score: 0

Sorry, not true. Your impression is a result of how the high percentage of diversity has affected culture in this country. People simply do not discuss these matters in public, but when you get them to open up in a private conversation, it becomes very clear that there is a growing anti-China sentiment. I have experienced this with several friends that are in a similar position as I am, where many of my coworkers and neighbors are of Chinese origin which it makes it impossible to bring the topic up with them. More and more people stop buying made-in-China every day and try to stay away from anything China-related as long as there is a choice. To get a better appreciation of this, try to engage in a political discussion by starting the topic with how detrimental it is for Canada to keep doing business with the Chinese despite all the cheating, currency manipulation, hacking, etc and perhaps people will feel confident to talk with frankness

Canada: Well, it looks like you blew a seal. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 03:20 · Score: 0

China: No, no! It onry ice cleam!!

Highly classified information on the Internet by doperative · 2011-02-17 03:23 · Score: 1

'An unprecedented cyberattack on the Canadian government from China has given foreign hackers access to highly classified federal information

Find out who put this "highly classified federal information" on the Internet and charge him/her with gross negligence and clap him/her in jail for twenty years. Is sombody looking to bump up their federal budget this year?

Forgive my ignorance, but... by JustAnotherIdiot · 2011-02-17 03:25 · Score: 1

...what kind of classified information does Canada have worth stealing? I could understand the US, which has its grubby little fingers in everything behind locked doors, but Canada?

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What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?

LAN without WAN by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 03:25 · Score: 0

If something is that important and "secret", then why is that data even accessible via the internet? Why government computers need access to the outside world, I don't know. A LAN with no WAN access seems like a safer bet to me.

Re:is china a school bully or a professional kille by rerogo · 2011-02-17 03:42 · Score: 1

Probably they tried to hide it. It looks like this breach took a month to expose? You can't backdoor a system without having a backdoor, and with sufficient scrutiny that's going to show up.

Awwwww, Not Canada... by BJ_Covert_Action · 2011-02-17 03:44 · Score: 2

Seriously China? Canada? What the hell did Canada ever do to you? What valuable information could they possibly have that you couldn't get by your regular, scheduled attacks on U.S. networks? Canada is like the cool, friendly kid in class, that everyone likes, and isn't a douchebag to anyone. Picking on them is like taking a piss on a puppy. You've just demonstrated yourselves to be a bunch of wankers, China.

--
Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!

Re:Awwwww, Not Canada... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 05:22 · Score: 0

Picking on whom? This seems more like trying to sneak a peek at some other kid's test during finals...
Re:Awwwww, Not Canada... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 07:01 · Score: 0

>>Canada is like the cool, friendly kid in class, that everyone likes, and isn't a douchebag to anyone. Picking on them is like taking a piss on a puppy.
Great. Now I have to clean coffee off my monitor and keyboard. Thanks a lot!
Re:Awwwww, Not Canada... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 08:29 · Score: 0

Seriously, this was the funniest thing I have read in a while..."Picking on them is like taking a piss on a puppy"
Re:Awwwww, Not Canada... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 09:29 · Score: 1

Seriously? Canada is a trusted partner with a lot of other nations, and traditionally has crap security -- an easy way to get info on the other nations is to hack the weak link. This was a constant problem during the cold war.
Also it's informative to see what other nations tell "trusted" partners like Canada, compared to the data you're gleaning more directly. Any auditor will tell you that you need to audit both sides of a transaction to figure out what's going on.
Otherwise, Canada is far from insignificant economically, and as far as China is concerned, they're just more of the "West" -- the culture that butt-fucked them mercilessly. And that's ignoring details like Canada supplying the aircraft and expertise the nationalists used to strafe the People's Army.
And if you want to talk about pissing on puppies, take a look at what they're doing to the relatively harmless Tibetans, or millions of fellow Chinese, especially if they're not Han. You really think for a second that Beijing would take a moment to /feel bad/ about hacking rich, stupid Canada? /That/ would be wanking. No, China is a big boy now and its intent on fucking rather than being fucked for a change.

China is so Bad by mezgani · 2011-02-17 04:29 · Score: 1

I don't believe that China spy can attack into Canadian network, even i remark that all last governments attacks (French, NASA, ...) come from China, is really china so good in Hacking. I thought often that China network is used as transparent proxy to others gov.

Re:China is so Bad by ADRA · 2011-02-17 05:25 · Score: 1

Your comments may be poorly worded, but basically correct. Anyone with half a clue about network security knows that a single compromised server from a random government office etc.. can be used to stage any type of attack upon a given government. For all we know, the NSA are the perpetrators of the attacks in order to justify ever higher budgets.
These stories are truly reprehensible in their blatantly racist nature. Shame on you all.

--
Bye!
Re:China is so Bad by mezgani · 2011-02-17 05:55 · Score: 1

Your answer sound correct, it is true that is not the first time that i heard stories about China attacks, nor the first attacks. With more clarification, government will know that China is not the first factor of these kind of attacks, only a hijacked Axe to others. Well, in your vision NSA security believe in old stories, attack/defense to stay at top.

Likely not government involved.... by DarthVain · 2011-02-17 05:34 · Score: 1

If you look at the two departments within the Canadian Government that were specifically targeted they were the Treasury and Fiance.

How much do you want to bet that this has absolutely nothing to do with the Chinese government and more to do with your typical criminals phishing for finical information that they can use to score some dough. They deal with large sums of money, and have been criticized in the past for lax network security. Much harder to hit a commercial bank. That said I doubt the Chinese government has much desire to do anything about this sort of activity within its boarders.

I would argue and hope that Canada would be exerting pressure via China's desire for Canadian resources, particularly oil, to put a very abrupt stop to this sort of activity directed towards us. I would also hope that this is a wake up call for government to start paying serious attention to IT security.

This does not surprise me by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 06:12 · Score: 0

What did Canada ever do to China
JasonFromOkotoks

Re:Why even connect sensitive computers to the net by tabrnaker · 2011-02-17 06:17 · Score: 1

Let me explain. It's the Canadian Government.

Maybe i should elaborate, i used to work for the Canadian Government. The salaries that they offer computer programmers is about the same salary they offer to somebody whose job is to get and put away paper files. So about 2 times less than a code monkey would get in the private sector, and about 4-5 times less than a good programmer would receive. Seriously.

So what happens is most of the programmers and most of the programs get written in VB, yes pathetic i know. Security is virtually non-existant. I actually got let go the first time (got fired 3 times and quit once, gotta love their stupidity) because i was seen as a security threat because i knew more about the computers there than the fresh out of school computer grads. Not your normal grads, but the ones who got the degree because they thought that's where the money is and don't even own computers at home. Yes, tech admins who can't even assemble their own computers.

unless there's proof, I suggest the west STFU by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 06:35 · Score: 0

Did they call Mitnick's attacks American cyber espionage?
Did they call MafiaBoy's DoD attacks Canadian cyber terrorism?

Hey losers, your hidden agenda isn't all that difficult to detect.

But Canada has no kill switch by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 06:39 · Score: 0

But Canada has no kill switch! How did they protect themselves?!

Once the attack was detected in early January, Canadian government cybersecurity officials immediately shut down all internet access at the Finance Department and the Treasury Board

Amazing! They managed to keep critical systems isolated, and shut those down without the need for a massive nation-wide internet blackout! Perhaps the US could learn a few things from those bright quick-thinking Canucks up north!

Domestic Politics by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 06:43 · Score: 0

Rest of the world, there's nothing to see here.

This is a sexy spin story the goverment is flogging in order to try and change some headlines. As it's been pointed out, this happened months ago, and there is no proof of who actually is involved.

I'm not going to get into the political drama that caused them to do this, but they've done it before:
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/article/854197--russian-bombers-a-make-believe-threat

Not a surprise by makubesu · 2011-02-17 06:44 · Score: 1

Cyber mounties are a joke.

Re:What? Why!! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 06:47 · Score: 0

Gosh, your ignorance is staggering. I'd ask you to hand in your geek card but it appears you've never been issued once. At least you've gotten the slashdot habit of not reading the article.

Re:What? Why!! by Keen+Anthony · 2011-02-17 07:17 · Score: 1

Fine, anonymous coward, have it your way... It is impossible that China could be responsible for the cyber attacks against Canada. The peace-loving citizens of the great People's Republic of China could never do such a thing to our dear friends in the West with whom we enjoy a strong bond of friendship and belief in the one country-two policy system. If Chinese were responsible, they must surely have been corrupted by the decadent ways of the enemies of our peaceful nation in the West. There, better?

Because, obviously it cannot for a moment be likely that China could have done this, because FTA says we cannot know for sure, and because TFA says it, surely we must throw out past history. It must be 4chan.

When will we learn? by WindBourne · 2011-02-17 08:28 · Score: 1

Chinese Gov. is in a cold war with the west. Right now, it is about getting as much information AND tech as possible. It is time to move western nation govs on to a seperate network, and then create another network or two within EACH nation in which vital resources (power plants, trains, planes, etc) are on that. It is not enough to be a VPN. It must be a PHYSICALLY seperated network. Ideally, we will go back to building our own switches/routers for at least this area.

--
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.

Cost by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 08:42 · Score: 0

great, I haven't even received my first usage bill yet and china is already trying to run it up

Re:What? Why!! by Ogive17 · 2011-02-17 08:44 · Score: 1

Breaking News - NHL and OHL have suspended operations. It has not been determined if hockey will ever return.

--
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."

Mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 09:06 · Score: 0

Ain't that the truth, wish I had my points.

Come to Vancouver by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 09:16 · Score: 0

I'll take immigrants, investments, and business contracts from China any day. China has been a net boom to economic and cultural life in Vancouver for 10+ years. Hong Kong was a nice appetizer for us but mainland China is what Vancouver is now aligned with, and Chinese prosperity has a direct and positive impact on those of us who live, eat, play, own, and work in Vancouver.

How do they know if it's a foreigner or a local?? by angiasaa · 2011-02-17 09:27 · Score: 1

So basically, the Canadians have lost all access to their 'highly classified information' while foreigners can access it leisurely? What about foreigners in Canada? And Canadians who're abroad? Or are we to assume that the databases somehow knows whether there's a foreigner sitting at the computer or a Canadian?

Too many questions? :P

--
Geekism is your _only_ God!

Puts WikiLeaks in context... by Kazoo+the+Clown · 2011-02-17 09:38 · Score: 1

If the enemies of a country have their secrets, can you still claim that their own people have no right to them?

Re:What? Why!! by Mashiki · 2011-02-17 09:51 · Score: 1

NHL/OHL did that no one would bat an eye, we'd all just go watch more minor/junior/senior league games like we do now.

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Om, nomnomnom...

Something not right here by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 09:58 · Score: 0

Call me retarded... but... Uhh... whats taking down the server going to help when they already stole information?

Its like thieves got your ATM card because you left it on the hood of your car, took all your money, you respond with "DURRR urrr duhhh" and close your bank account. THEN you blab about it like its the end of the world.

I support your security and all that but TAKE YOUR IMPORTANT SUPER SECRET FILES OFFLINE. It looks like government is its own national security risk because the information would've been better in the public's audit.

really? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 10:08 · Score: 0

It should also be noted that public sentiment towards China is getting very, very testy

Is this guy even Canadian?
I'm in Canada and the only government the average joe on the street is testy about is our own.
If somebody is trying to screw our government that's almost a good thing.

Confucius says: by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 10:26 · Score: 0

A measure of one's success is the number of haters one garners...ah so..

Re:What? Why!! by Ogive17 · 2011-02-17 13:44 · Score: 1

I was going to list all the leagues but was too lazy... but I think Canadians would riot if hockey went away.

--
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."

you're a fucking idiot by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 14:32 · Score: 0

facts

Stolen? by Rinikusu · 2011-02-17 14:59 · Score: 1

I find it amusing that if this were an "entertainment" type story, you'd have the usual suspects doing the "it's not stealing!" semantics dance. "Unauthorized copying != theft!" After all, the canadians still have their documents, right?

--
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai

appreciate Chinese l33t, don't spin anti-CN msgs by keneng · 2011-02-17 15:23 · Score: 1

I can understand Slashdot mentioning this hack attack on Canadian Government.
Mentioning it pays respect and shows appreciation for the Chinese l33t hacker skills required to pull something like this off.

But having others in this troll bad mouthing Chinese people and spreading "anti-CN spin" is not appropriate.
Try living in China as a programmer with all their culture and their social status situation for a year. From what I understand, the average monthly salary for a java programmer ranges from 2000RMB to 4000RMB. Now roughly divide that by 6 to see that in US or Canadian dollars(they are almost at par these days).
333.33$ to 666.67$ A MONTH. So as a moonlighting job or a day job, if someone offered you some bonus money for doing something "cool" for individual profit-motivated reasons and not nationalistic reasons, there is a definite temptation if you want to be able to afford a house(>300,000RMB) or a car(>150,000RMB) especially when you are a single programmer still living at home with your family because that is the tradition unless you are migrant worker coming in from extreme poverty which fires up the temptation these kinds of jobs even more.

I'm not justifying the hacking, but I can certainly appreciate the Chinese l33t's level of desperation to raise their social status and to raise they quality of life.

Essentially, like all other humans on this planet, they just want a job that provides them with dignity and with an acceptable level social status.

This is a tangent but it is related because of human dignity and acceptable level social status in Canada: Here in Canada we have unemployment insurance and social welfare, but many people would agree that it fails to provide citizens with dignity and certainly fails to provide citizens with an acceptable level of social status. Do you think people on welfare feel good about it? No, they would rather be given a real job opportunity that is good fit for them. The government's current action plan fails because the gov. treats people like numbers and sends them off generic template responses with no human feelings or empathy involved. The accountability isn't there either because the emails come from a generic "GOV CANADA" email and not from "Mrs. Smith from Action Plan Canada Downtown Toronto Office, with phone number 123.234.1234" to reach a real human to resolve an individual's job crisis at-hand. I find all of this Action Plan stuff false advertising and I would like my money back because it is tax payer money and I don't think I'm getting bang for my buck for UI/WELFARE/ACTION PLAN to be honest. As a result I would predict more of these events will occur not only from China but from within Canada as well.

just background checks by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 17:56 · Score: 0

With the amount of money we borrowed from the Chinese, you can hardly blame them for scouring our credit ratings and checking the integrity of our collaterals.
Standard banking practice, nothing unusual here.

Yet another Authoritarian Government to Fall by Anonymous Coward · 2011-02-17 20:12 · Score: 0

How much more proof do we need to see that the Communist Party of China is a rising threat? I believe we should place economic sanctions on China until the people of China kick the Communist Party of China out of power just as Egypt did Mubarak. The "Party" is an evil bully identical to Egypt's President Mubarak, thinking they know better than the people. The Party cannot survive without the world's support, and, economically, the world needs China without its bully.

Re:is china a school bully or a professional kille by it5complicated · 2011-02-18 19:58 · Score: 1

Hurmm. But the Chinese would know that, wouldn't they? But then if you are gonna do something like this, there is risk involved. A school bully is rash, while a pro takes calculated risks. So which is China?

It's time to return the favor... by joerog · 2011-02-19 02:58 · Score: 1

Paybacks will be sweet..... Don't just sit there! Hack 'em back! Get the best minds (if you still have them) together and devise a wake up call to the Chinese government. That's the only language they understand and it doesn't need any translation!

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Foreign Hackers Attack Canadian Government

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