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Geohot To Turn Over Computers To Neutral Third Party

Posted by timothy on from the small-victories-are-still-good dept.

intellitech writes "This will make a lot of you feel better. Groklaw is reporting that both parties have come up with a stipulation in Sony Computer Entertainment American v. Hotz regarding what Hotz must do about handing over his computers. The new Preliminary Injunction (PDF) now says that he is to turn his materials over to a 'neutral' third party, not to SCEA's lawyers, and after the neutral party combs through them, it all is returned to Hotz. All but whatever they 'segregate' out of them. He won't get that back until the end of the litigation, should he prevail, which this court at least currently thinks is less likely than that Sony will. There will be a hearing on Hotz's motion to dismiss on April 8, 2011."

117 comments

  1. Hope They Hurry by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: -1, Redundant

    I hope they hurry up and give him his computers back. He has a lot of work to do now that the new Sony Xperia Phone is on its way.

    1. Re:Hope They Hurry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      I hope they hurry up and give him his computers back. He has a lot of work to do now that the new Sony Xperia Phone is on its way.

      My PENIS is all wet and slick with YO MAMA'S pussy juices. That's because I FUCKED her and she liked it.

    2. Re:Hope They Hurry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      No. The moral of this whole episode is Don't Buy Sony.

    3. Re:Hope They Hurry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Sony is expecting a win to be "People won't mess with our stuff". The actual result will be "People won't buy our stuff to mess with in the first place".

      All Sony can hope for is a pyrrhic victory that will reinforce the boycott that many people (including me) already practice.

    4. Re:Hope They Hurry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who has heard about this and can still meaningfully declare to stop buying from Sony? Nobody, that's who. Everybody "in the know" already boycotts Sony, so Sony doesn't have to give a rat's ass about anything anymore: Their customers don't care.

    5. Re:Hope They Hurry by JockTroll · · Score: 1, Troll

      And that's why the next step must be: blow up Sony's offices, kill Sony's personnel. Especially execs and technicians, who are hard to replace. One bomb per day would be nice. Can a huge corporation survive boycotts? Yes, they have so many diversified activities you can't boycott them all. Can it survive legal battles? Yes, it has more money than any of its enemies. Can it survive massive, unrestrained violence? No, a corporation after all is made of people, and they can be killed like anyone else.

      --
      Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
    6. Re:Hope They Hurry by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Who has heard about this and can still meaningfully declare to stop buying from Sony? Nobody, that's who. Everybody "in the know" already boycotts Sony, so Sony doesn't have to give a rat's ass about anything anymore: Their customers don't care.

      My family doesn't buy sony, because as the family techie, I tell them it's not worth trying to deal with them and I get them a system that has the capabilities they want and doesn't depend on brand.

      So my boycotting is essentially 40-50 people boycotting. (Hey, I've got a big extended family)

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    7. Re:Hope They Hurry by Lord_Byron · · Score: 2

      That has been my position since (as I understand it) they sued Lik Sang out of existence. Lik Sang existed to make money by making geeks happy. I do not give money to people who seem to be actively engaged in stopping me from being happy.

    8. Re:Hope They Hurry by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Wasn't it Nintendo that sued Lik Sang?

    9. Re:Hope They Hurry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      The moral of this story is: whaaaaaaaaaaambulance!

      So here's a console - the PS3 - which actually included a hacker-friendly option.. OtherOS. Finally, they listened. Finally, all those people wanting their homebrew and eat it too, could have exactly that!

      But no.. it wasn't enough.. after all, it didn't provide access to all the superjuicy bits - even if they weren't exactly needed for homebrew.. use those superjuicy bits and you really ought to just get a dev license and start making some serious money. But not according to some entrepeneuring individuals.. they started hacking away and before long, SONY realized their hacking was getting awfully close to not just unlocking some additional functionality, but also to unlocking piracy.

      So they removed OtherOS. Oh teh fucking noes. Brought this unto themselves, the hackers did, but whateverthefuck... misguided outrage aplenty!

      So somebody suggests making it possible to bring OtherOS back. Downside: doing so brings the piracy avenue back as well.

      "But AC," you say, "wasn't that -really- the whole damn point of the hacking anyway? I mean running my own webserver on a PS3 is cute and all.. but I can do that on a generic PC, laptop, tablet.. you know.. the -real- hacker-friendly hardware.. why bother hacking the PS3 at all if NOT for the piracy?" Ah, young apprentice, you are mista.. wait, no, you're absobloodylutely right!

      And thus, hacked completely for the primary purpose of enabling piracy, while defending it as "zomg MY hardware, MY rights, MY OtherOS, MY homebrew, MY LULZ :D, err.. MY freedom of speech or something! First amendment! I plead the 5th! EEK!"

      Yeah, fuck this 'whole episode' bullcrapple.. See if another console developer ever tries to be hackerfriendly again. I'm all for hacking, and I'm all for what the claimed ideals were in this story - but let's not act all surprised and hurt when the obvious outcome landed.

      Everybody whining about the homebrew.. get a fucking PC and have at it - or if you really want to stimulate homebrew software and open-ish hardware, check out a Pandora or even the PoGa ( http://www.poga.com.au/site/ ).

      Those going for the "Don't Buy Sony".. good luck - SONY is a megacorp and you really cannot avoid them. Even if you don't buy anything that carries the SONY label explicitly, there's a dozen subsidiaries that'll happily take your money and send a chunk of it to SONY anyway.

    10. Re:Hope They Hurry by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...it didn't provide access to all the superjuicy bits - even if they weren't exactly needed for homebrew..

      What, like actual hardware accelerated graphics? IIRC, it just provided a framebuffer. Try uninstalling your video drivers and then playing any game.

      you really ought to just get a dev license and start making some serious money.

      Not everyone's in it for the money, and then you're subject to Sony's rules about what is and isn't allowed on the console. Do you think they'd ever allow something like XBMC?

      before long, SONY realized their hacking was getting awfully close to not just unlocking some additional functionality, but also to unlocking piracy.

      Interestingly, if you look at the timeline, piracy was about the first thing to fall. It was never the motive, otherwise you'd think these guys would stop.

      So they removed OtherOS.

      And thus, the first serious effort to hack the PS3. Before they removed OtherOS, it was this invincible platform, people were much more focused at hacking other systems since the PS3 already let them do something, at least.

      Keep in mind, the people who made the first attempt are not the same people who ran projects like this.

      You also say this casually, as if it's an OK thing for Sony to do, as if it's theirs to remove anymore. If I'd bought a PS3, I'd expect OtherOS to be a feature I bought it with. No matter that Sony had a pissing contest with some hackers, what they're doing here is trying to take back a feature I fucking bought. It's not terribly different from breaking into my car and stealing the stereo back because they've heard some people do evil things with stereos.

      ...I can do that on a generic PC, laptop, tablet.. you know.. the -real- hacker-friendly hardware.. why bother hacking the PS3 at all if NOT for the piracy?

      For the things you can't do on a PC, laptop, tablet, etc. Never mind that, again, it was sold open. How would you feel if Dell took back your ability to run other OSes on your laptop, and locked you to Windows ME?

      See if another console developer ever tries to be hackerfriendly again.

      I would hope that other developer would take a look at the timeline. The PS3 certainly wasn't harder to hack than any other console. It's now been ripped open harder and deeper than any other console -- Sony is suing because that's what they know how to do, because they know very well that they can't put the cat back in the bag, that they can't just release a patch and call it done. And of course, as a nasty side effect for Sony, piracy is now possible.

      But this didn't happen for years. They bought themselves years and years by being even marginally open. If they'd given more access to the hardware, there'd likely be even less incentive to hack it. It's not likely that they'd have kept it closed forever, but it's pretty clear that the only reason the PS3 remained uncracked for so long while other platforms were routinely pwned was OtherOS.

      Everybody whining about the homebrew.. get a fucking PC and have at it

      Why should I have to? I mean, I have a PC. You're talking about getting another one, trying to make it small, quiet, and cool, while adding enough power to play games, then getting a controller and trying to find PC games that play well from the couch with a controller, then setting up something like MythTV and buying a remote...

      Never mind the people who already bought a PS3 for that purpose, back when it was actually reasonable to do. Or the people building clusters out of them. They should just, what, suck it up and throw all that shit away, and then go buy whatever h

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    11. Re:Hope They Hurry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe they did at one point for selling GBA flash carts, but it was Sony who ultimately put them out of business.

    12. Re:Hope They Hurry by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      The moral of the story: if there's a few pirates, remove an advertised feature entirely and hurt its entire user base! Good going, Sony!

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    13. Re:Hope They Hurry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WOOP WOOP WOOP

      Nigger Alert! Nigger Alert!

      WOOP WOOP WOOP

    14. Re:Hope They Hurry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, like actual hardware accelerated graphics? IIRC, it just provided a framebuffer. Try uninstalling your video drivers and then playing any game.

      What - you mean the way people used to write games before hardware accelerated graphics? Or did I remember something incorrectly, and Monkey Island wasn't actually pixels - but a whole screen full of view-aligned quads with pixel shares for the colors?

      Not everyone's in it for the money, and then you're subject to Sony's rules about what is and isn't allowed on the console. Do you think they'd ever allow something like XBMC?

      No, and why would they - that's not just 'homebrew', it's part of eating into their market. If you want that level of openness, seek it elsewhere.
      Similarly, if you're not in it for the money, then why specifically the PS3?

      Interestingly, if you look at the timeline, piracy was about the first thing to fall. It was never the motive, otherwise you'd think these guys would stop.

      No, they also want to make it so that those who are running pirated games can't be detected so easily. As it is, SONY's banning people with hacked consoles from online play.. clearly there's still bits to hack further.

      And thus, the first serious effort to hack the PS3.

      Building on the earlier efforts I already mentioned.

      You also say this casually, as if it's an OK thing for Sony to do, as if it's theirs to remove anymore.

      "to remove anymore"? What?
      Anyway - of course it's OK. You're very much more than welcome to use your PS3 in the condition that you purchased it and never update it. This includes the science people who decided that using a PS3 for science-y things was a heck of a lot cheaper than regular computers.. nevermind the fact that it's cheaper because SONY sells the damn things at a loss, to be made up for by game purchases - how many games were purchased for these clusters?
      Yeah, SONY's own fault for selling them at a loss - I know.
      Hey, scientists' own fault for hooking the damn things up to the PS3 network and letting them update! Duh.

      "But Anonymous Coward," you say, " - what if I wanted my OtherOS -and- the online gameplay!? That's what I bought it for!
      That's great - so in a few years when your games are no longer supported on the PS3 network anyway, are you going to raise hell then, too? Or are you going to go with the "well, I suppose they couldn't have supported it for-evar for the 0.5% of people still playing them" reasoning?

      For the things you can't do on a PC, laptop, tablet, etc.

      Are you seriously suggesting there's things the PS3 can do that a PC cannot? Or are you simply suggesting that it may be more efficient at some of those things?
      But regardless - for those clustering projects, see above.. don't fucking let them update!

      How would you feel if Dell took back your ability to run other OSes on your laptop, and locked you to Windows ME?

      Depends.. would that come from an update that I have the option of not using? As far as I know, Dell doesn't control the entire internet, so I'm guessing they can't ban me from it until I'd run such an update. Nice try, though.

      The PS3 certainly wasn't harder to hack than any other console

      Of course it wasn't *eyeroll* But I guess next time they won't use a fixed variable.. let's see if that throws a spanner in the works.

      They bought themselves years and years by being even marginally open. If they'd given more access to the hardware, there'd likely be even less incentive to hack it.

      If only they had given access to the hardware acceleration!
      If only they had given access to the hypervisor!
      If only this..
      If only that..
      And bit by bit, you're just worki

    15. Re:Hope They Hurry by man_the_king · · Score: 1

      Oddly enough (well, not really odd) my comment seems to be the only one that doesn't scream "RAR! RAR! RAR! GOOO hackers! BURN SONY TO THE GROUND! YEAH! WOO!".. if only it were, it'd get a +5 in no time.

      Perfectly right! Curiously, for a tech-minded website populated by supposedly rational people interested in tech, an amazing number of moderators and posters seem to be outright Sony-haters here.

      I don't have any moderator points, but...Kudos to your post!

  2. Give the systems to Sony by MyJobSux · · Score: 0

    Why not give the systems over to Sony. Wipe what you want off the systems, encrypt the rest and let them touch them all they want. Once they do he can simply claim "What? That was never on the system when I had it!" Unless I'm wrong, once Sony touches the systems their pretty much no longer good as evidence. There would be no legal logging of what was being done so Geo could simply claim they changed the data. Granted that gives them access to everything on the drive but still, encrypt the crap you want untouched and forget the password.

    1. Re:Give the systems to Sony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      I believe that would be classified as willful destruction of evidence, which is a criminal act.

    2. Re:Give the systems to Sony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Give them a taste of their own medicine. A Vaio, more specifically.

    3. Re:Give the systems to Sony by Issarlk · · Score: 1

      "But, this encrypted file wasn't on my computer when I sent it to Sony!"

    4. Re:Give the systems to Sony by Cwix · · Score: 1

      Perhaps one that overheated, and ate cd drives, then sony refused to fix the laptop even though it was under warranty.

      That's right Sony, I remember you screwing me with that laptop. Ive avoided most of your crap for the past 7 years... Don't worry after continuing stunts like this, I will probably never purchase anything that has the bad luck to bear the sony badge

      --
      You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
    5. Re:Give the systems to Sony by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Perhaps one that overheated, and ate cd drives, then sony refused to fix the laptop even though it was under warranty.

      That's right Sony, I remember you screwing me with that laptop. Ive avoided most of your crap for the past 7 years... Don't worry after continuing stunts like this, I will probably never purchase anything that has the bad luck to bear the sony badge

      "In my experience, there's no such thing as luck."

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    6. Re:Give the systems to Sony by panda+cakes · · Score: 0

      Sony is looking to ID other people working on the hack. They are not looking for evidence that Geohot did it - there is more than enough already. So there is no reason for Sony to put anything on his computers - if they fabricate evidence to ID some random people they are not going to have a case against them anyways and the real culprits will continue to do what they are doing.

    7. Re:Give the systems to Sony by jsnipy · · Score: 1

      yeah but do you prove that?

      --
      -- if you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine
    8. Re:Give the systems to Sony by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      This is why you should always use Truecrypt on a removable or remote drive when working with questionable content.

      Just don't forget that the swap/page and hibernate files as well as temporary files also needs to be overwritten with random data frequently.

      So if the computer is set up to do that automatically - can that be classified as willful destruction of evidence?

      And if you are using a remote storage - make sure that it's in a different country, that may mess up the court proceedings severely because then they have to go through the juridical process of another country.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  3. Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by kaptink · · Score: 1

    Would he not just have deleted anything to do with Sony along time ago? Or better yet, worked from removable media.

    --
    Those who can, do. Those who cannot, sue.
    1. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering he didn't invent anything... there is hardly anything to discover.

    2. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by AdmiralXyz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's a good way to automatically lose your case and get the steepest possible punishment. Judges hate, hate people who destroy relevant evidence, and even if you securely erase the data itself, forensics teams can often tell that you erased something in the first place (and if he did that, Hotz would have to explain why he didn't have any data relating to this project he spend so much time on). I'm sure it's possible to erase things in such a fashion as to avoid leaving evidence that I ever performed an erasure, but I sure wouldn't want to chance it in his situation, especially when it doesn't look like Sony has an especially strong case.

      --
      Dislike the Electoral College? Lobby your state to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
    3. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by kaptink · · Score: 1

      I was thinking he may have done that from the moment Sony started crying like a baby.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who cannot, sue.
    4. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Has anyone thought he may not have to delete anything? They need to prove he was attempting to circumvent copyright protection devices. My understanding of the situation is that he was trying to restore the ability to boot to linux on the PS3, a feature that was included on the device when he purchased it. If that's all he really did then there isn't really anything to find on his computers other than contacts and login credentials for various accounts that Sony was certainly interested in.

    5. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I guess a question might be what happens if copy protection and the ability to boot linux were both encircled by a single wall which he breached.

    6. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by profplump · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah, everyone seems to be missing the fact the DMCA violations require the intent to violate copyright, not just the ability to do so. If he was hacking with any intent other than stealing games it's perfectly legitimate, even under the DMCA.

    7. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by NimbleSquirrel · · Score: 1

      I doubt he would have, especially if he has had legal advice. That is a sure way to lose the case, and get the book thrown at him, even if it is just a civil case.

      On the other hand, as a security researcher, he would most likely have had everything encrypted (if he is smart). There is nothing I can see in the injunction that says he must turn over encryption keys (ie. the knowledge in his head - not a document). I am not a lawyer, but I don't believe he can be compelled to do that for a civil case and if he were compelled, he could plead the fifth. Sony would have a bunch of encrypted files that they would have to break into - performing the similar actions that they are accusing Geohot of.

      He could follow the injunction to the letter and hand over his computer, and Sony would still get nothing effectively. He would have technically provided the data to them, and I cannot see anything an the injunction that says the data must be provided unencrypted and in a particular format. Sony would then have to convince the court why they have the right to break Geohot's encryption - not an easy proposal.

    8. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      especially when it doesn't look like Sony has an especially strong case.

      No, but they have more money. That's all that matters, really.

    9. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by sakti · · Score: 2

      My understanding of the situation is that he was trying to restore the ability to boot to linux on the PS3, a feature that was included on the device when he purchased it.

      No. That was failOverflow that did the work to get Linux running on the PS3 but they did not go on and do the additional work required to run pirated games on it. Geohot did that additional work.

      --
      "It is better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees." - Albert Camus
    10. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by defaria · · Score: 1

      On computers, things get deleted all the time. Proving that you erased something doesn't really say what that something is you erased. You don't need to explain why you didn't use your computer to store information - you could just say you kept it in your mind or whatever.

    11. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Schadrach · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uhh, as far as the 3.55 stuff, geohot merely released a FW update that enabled the "install PKG from USB" feature in XMB and some signing tools. Both of those have very valid uses other than piracy, and neither enable piracy in and of themselves. That's like saying that releasing a hex editor or decompiler is illegal because you could use it to crack PC games.

      Actually, geohot went so far as to warn people *not* to try making the changes that are necessary for backup managers to function because he had seen that 3.55 FW had some memory protection tricks in place that could brick your PS3 if you tried to patch the LV2 syscalls needed for backup managers (and thus easy piracy) all willy-nilly. I believe exactly what he said was something like "OMG OMG OMG OMG DO NOT PATCH LV2 OR YOU WILL BRICK YOUR CONSOLE" (I know I'm quoting the OMGs, at least -- the wording of the rest might be a little off).

      So, FW patch that let's you install signed software from USB + signing tool to me does not = piracy, but rather any capability to run homebrew. Given the fact that he's never enabled any of the stuff necessary to make piracy simple, and outright states tat he's against piracy at every turn, I'm not sure how you get to your conclusion.

      kmeaw, hermes, and KaKoRoTo however are the ones you should be looking at.

    12. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the pirate community is pissed off at geohot specifically because he does things like getting homebrew running, but stops right short of pirating games for them. it's true that people have taken his work further to the point that there are CFW out there that enable pirating, but geohot was just taking the work of those that reenabled otheros further, to enable homebrew. personally, i have a 3.55CFW ps3, and the only homebrew I installed on it was a ps1 emulator. and then you have to sign it and it takes a fair degree of computer literacy or a libram-style how-to to do that.

    13. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Duradin · · Score: 1

      So Geohot was merely trying to restore the ability to boot linux that Sony hadn't taken away yet because he used linux to crack their console?

      By chance do you wear a fez or a scarf?

    14. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently You have never read the DMCA then, because "intent" is not part of that document. Possession of _ability_ to bypass DRM/etc is enough to be illegal. Because owning a Drill bit is illegal because it COULD be used in a bank robbery to help drill into a safe...ohh....wait..... I'm not saying it is logical... or productive... but it IS there in the law..

    15. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was not trying to restore Linux, he was working on running native homebrew. Fail0verflow already restored Linux before he (re)started work on the PS3.

    16. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Agent.Nihilist · · Score: 1

      My understanding of the situation is that he was trying to restore the ability to boot to linux on the PS3, a feature that was included on the device when he purchased it.

      No. That was failOverflow that did the work to get Linux running on the PS3 but they did not go on and do the additional work required to run pirated games on it. Geohot did that additional work.

      You have that backwards, Geohot did not enable piracy and even went so far as to publicly discourage people from doing so.

      Remember that Sony removed the other OS option in response to Geohot's success in de-cripling Other OS's capibilites.

    17. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not why he is annoying. He is annoying because his work is driven by curiosity and not a motivation to complete things. Once he gets in and finds out how to do what HE wants, it's 50/50 whether he'll keep working or share his discoveries. He releases decent alpha software, but if he's moved on, that software is never supported or updated. Don't misunderstand me, many are greatful for what he does share, but as soon as the next shiney puzzle comes along, he drops what he's doing to crack that and never finishes what he was working on before. He has an incredible aptitude for cracking, but once he gets there he leaves just as fast... and who knows how long what he released will still be valid or work. What George lacks is discipline and maturity... and that's what pisses people off... not that he won't crack games (& btw fuck those freeloading thieves, but fuck Sony, too).

    18. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by 0x15e · · Score: 1

      I think the original intent behind the crack was to get full access to the video hardware, which Sony had disabled in the original Other OS feature.

    19. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      I don't think he cares if he pisses people off. He isn't their personal cracking machine. If he satisifes his curiousity/has fun then more power to him. I bet people would even get angry with him for cracking things and not telling them about it. Mind you most of those people are medicated.

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    20. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He might want to delete any strange 4chan porn.

    21. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would he not just have deleted anything to do with Sony along time ago? Or better yet, worked from removable media.

      GHotz is an idiot Script Kiddy. The thought most likely never crossed his mind. He uses his real name for his "hacker alias", and doesn't seem to even know what a fucking proxy server is, let alone use one. He's all about taking the credit and being famous, well he's got what he wanted now.

    22. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given the fact that he's never enabled any of the stuff necessary to make piracy simple, and outright states tat he's against piracy at every turn, I'm not sure how you get to your conclusion.

      1. The other teams published a method to jailbreak the system and allow the OtherOS to install. They specifically did NOT recover the root key because it is NOT needed for this.
      2. GHotz used their methods to obtain, and then published the root encryption key.
      3. You do not need the root key to run homebrew on a PS3 which has already been jailbroken.
      4. What the root key does, is allow you to sign a game or blu-ray disc so that it appears fully Official, and will therefore work on ANY PS3 (and other blu-ray players as well).

      So given the fact that the only purpose of the key IS to "make piracy simple", the fact that he published it all over the place is how we arrive at our conclusion that the whole anti-piracy thing is a pile of Bullshit. He needs to understand that this type of weak smokescreen or cover story is a LONG way from being any decent level of Plausible Deniability.

    23. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Schadrach · · Score: 1

      Err, doesn't it also serve the obvious purpose of allowing the execution of homebrew without the need for a dongle attached at all times, as well as being necessary for CFWs, or am I thinking the wrong key?

    24. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by lpq · · Score: 1

      Hotz would have to explain why he didn't have any data relating to this project he spend so much time on

      Why, of course, as soon as sony told him he wasn't able to talk about it anymore, he deleted all of it from his computer so he wouldn't be tempted!

      Duh!

    25. Re:Wouldnt he have deleted everything already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why do you post lies?

  4. That is more than fair. He can keep his pR0n ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least that reads better than the first motion by SO NY . Seriously the damage is done to the PS3 already there is no way to stuff
    the cat back into the bag so I don't know why they bother keeping anything segregated. If they hadn't removed the feature to load another OS then this could have all been unnecessary. How do they expect an honest guy to build a cheap supercomputer these days?

  5. Sony needs to hire Geohot, maybe to fix Mylo 2. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Seriously, is extending the use of hardware worse for Sony?

    For example, I own a Sony Mylo 2, payed U$300 for it: a platform that wasn't a lost-sale approach like PSP and PlayStation, but actually had it's profit mark upon first sale. This platform (Mylo 2) runs a closed-source Linux that Sony didn't have permition to use, has ceased from being updated despite having a higher profit margin than other Sony products, has a 600MHz CPU+64MB Ram with just under 1GB of solid-state that perseveres for all applications, and despite running Linux it has been useless to this day while others have bought Sony's true lost-cause known as PSP. Sony lost money on PSP because the jailbreaking allowed use of any ROM or Homebrew, and no money was made on sale of commercial ware from Sony, while actual competitive products like the Mylo 2 get absolutely ignored.

    Why does Sony get away with so-much as stealing Linux onto a Mylo 2 that they refuse to open-up, and they prosecute anyone that ports applications to it without their devloper kit, yet with PSP they continually re-patch from anyone jailbreaking it for playing Homebrew and ROM's that none payed for?

    Mylo 2 is perhaps a platform with much more potential than any PDA Phone until Open Pandora arrived, yet Sony just continually stifles it's progress.

    1. Re:Sony needs to hire Geohot, maybe to fix Mylo 2. by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Violating the GPL != stealing.

      Also, is it really closed-source or just DRMed so you can't get your own binaries to run in it? Because the later wouldn't be a violation, since Linux is GPLv2, not v3.

      --
      Dilbert RSS feed
    2. Re:Sony needs to hire Geohot, maybe to fix Mylo 2. by Pi1grim · · Score: 1

      Violationg the GPL is as good as pirating software. Which is not, as it has been pointed out, stealing. But isn't it Sony, that's trying to tell the world, that pirating is worse that stealing?

    3. Re:Sony needs to hire Geohot, maybe to fix Mylo 2. by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Seriously, is extending the use of hardware worse for Sony?

      You bet. The "copyright" controls inside these devices are not really for copyright protection purposes. You can always make a bit-for-bit-perfect copy of optical media if you have the right hardware, and the real pirates have the right hardware. Therefore, by definition, any DRM scheme not involving handing out a one-time-use account key to the first owner of a game is, by definition, completely ineffectual as a copyright protection scheme.

      No, the principal purpose of those keys is to prevent third parties from developing for their platform without paying them royalties. To that end, if game developers believed Sony had no way of re-securing their platform, and if this belief led them to release titles without paying Sony, then Sony would stand to lose a lot of money.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    4. Re:Sony needs to hire Geohot, maybe to fix Mylo 2. by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      Violating the GPL is infringement. Many businesses that violate it do so willfully. That's no different than the "piracy" Sony and others seek to "prevent". As for Linux itself, depends on what else they've bundled as to whether it's a violation or not. If there's not source available for everything and a means to somehow produce binaries (no mention of being able to RUN them is brought up in the license...hence V3's changes...) you're in compliance. V3's a different story as you rightly point out- but if Sony's not releasing everything per the terms of V2, then they've got a problem like Actiontec and Verizon had with busybox.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    5. Re:Sony needs to hire Geohot, maybe to fix Mylo 2. by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      Heh... They should be careful- that function which is the real purpose of their "protections" is not something that gives them standing in this case. If it's shown that this is a goodly portion of what is going on, the case probably ought to implode quickly on them.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    6. Re:Sony needs to hire Geohot, maybe to fix Mylo 2. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So how exactly do Sony lose money on this? Surely they're just not getting a cut of someone else's cash rather than actually losing money.

      This is of course putting aside the issue of a flood of 4th rate games devaluing the system as in '83....

    7. Re:Sony needs to hire Geohot, maybe to fix Mylo 2. by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      So how exactly do Sony lose money on this?

      Because according to Wikipedia, the PS3 is (or at least was at one time) sold at a loss, so they depend on getting their cut of game sales just to break even.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    8. Re:Sony needs to hire Geohot, maybe to fix Mylo 2. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      digatwood:

      i'm pretty curious about the hardware you are referring to. i was always under the impression that DVD's and game disks/ect had data written to a part of the disk a burner can't write to, only pressed disks have data written there. a quick google search doesn't turn up anything relevant. do you mean you'd need a device that can 'press' a disk?

    9. Re:Sony needs to hire Geohot, maybe to fix Mylo 2. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It is quite telling that they need to go to these lengths to stop unlicensed development. There is no legal basis for it, in fact in the EU reverse engineering for interoperability is specifically exempt. Nintendo tried using copyright back in the SNES days and failed in court.

      I hope someone figures out how to use this to develop for unmodified PS3s. Might get some less formulaic games.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:Sony needs to hire Geohot, maybe to fix Mylo 2. by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 1

      Violating the GPL != stealing.

      Piracy of games literally is not stealing, it's the fencing of goods (for free) in a way that the license for the product forbids ("You shall not make unauthorized copies of this software."). If the license for the game didn't explicitly forbid copying, you'd be within your rights to do so, up to the point where you fall afoul of some other law, such as copyright. Violating any other license's explicit terms, including those of the GPL, is actually 100% equivalent.

      In my understanding, that is. IANAL.

    11. Re:Sony needs to hire Geohot, maybe to fix Mylo 2. by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At least for DVDs, there is no part of a disk that a burner can't write to. You just have to have a burner designed for authoring and somewhat more expensive authoring media that doesn't pre-burn the CSS area. When it comes to DVDs, they're about three or four grand apiece, last I checked, but they are readily available.

      Alternatively, I suspect you can find hacked firmware for DVD+R burners to do it since that part of the media is actually burnable on DVD+R. If it doesn't exist by now, I'd be surprised.

      And you can actually buy DVD-R media without the lead-in pre-burned, or at least somebody can. The DVD Forum approved that about four years ago for use in special kiosks that burn movies on demand. Again, you'd need custom firmware and the modified (non-pre-burned) DVD-R media, but if you're a company in China manufacturing fake DVDs, I doubt that you'd have hard time finding somebody to supply such things.

      This is, of course, assuming that you felt the need to use burners at all. In reality, you don't need to be able to burn a copy of the disc if you're doing mass piracy. All you need is a replication house that doesn't look too closely (for a fee). The stampers start with a bit-for-bit image of the data to be burned. AFAIK, in principle, there's no reason this couldn't come from a commercial DVD.

      For Blu-Ray discs, I have no idea. I haven't had any reason to author one yet.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    12. Re:Sony needs to hire Geohot, maybe to fix Mylo 2. by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Oh, they don't have to stop it forever. They just have to delay it long enough to fully recoup their R&D costs. After that, when somebody cracks their DRM, they'll just release the PS4, and then nobody will want the PS3, so nobody will want to develop software for it. Problem solved.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    13. Re:Sony needs to hire Geohot, maybe to fix Mylo 2. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dgatwood:

      Thanks for this. this nicely answered my question. it wasn't that i was interested obtaining one, but more interested in why i've never heard of this, or why it's not as common. it seemed that it could have underminded the current methods for copying things. i've always wondered why it was so hard to replicate a disk on a bit-for-bit, or sector-for-sector level, rather than breaking the encryption, and reburning it. what exactly is the 'css' area?

  6. I hope not by maroberts · · Score: 4, Informative

    Would he not just have deleted anything to do with Sony along time ago? Or better yet, worked from removable media.

    This is a civil case, however deleting evidence after being told to hand it over is a criminal offence

    --

    Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
    Karma: Chameleon

    1. Re:I hope not by Pi1grim · · Score: 1

      To prove that there was evidence deleted, you have to prove it existed in the first place.

    2. Re:I hope not by defaria · · Score: 1

      Of course you'd have to prove that he deleted it.

    3. Re:I hope not by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 2

      To prove that there was evidence deleted, you have to prove it existed in the first place.

      Absence of evidence can be evidence of absence in certain situations.

      To greatly simplify things: There is a room with a fire in the center and nothing else. A judge tells me not to burn any paper I may have in my pockets. I go into the room, and I come out and they search me and the room and find no paper. I say that I never had the paper.

      Then the present evidence of me putting paper into my pockets earlier, and evidence that the paper never left my pockets until I entered the room.

      No one is clever enough, especially with computers to hide all of their tracks, because they don't have all of the information, and if you weren't acting like the ultimate uber-black-hat at all points before you were even accused, there is probably some evidence.

      And certainly enough evidence to get the judge pissed off at you. And you DON'T want the judge pissed at you in a civil trial.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    4. Re:I hope not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There's also the issue of having to prove it was deleted *after* the order to hand it over was given.

    5. Re:I hope not by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hi MR AC! The problem is the MFT bites you in the ass every single time without fail. I have a friend that works in the state crime lab and it is ALWAYS the MFT that gets you. It is almost impossible to remove file traces from the MFT (I know of a few cleaners that will, but the vast majority won't touch it for fear of making the machine unbootable) and they can tell what you had on the drive simply by doing a search of the pointers in the MFT.

      Now since I doubt he is using an OS where it is trivial to clear files from the file system like FAT (they also have tools to hunt for files in EXT 2/3 and ReiserFS) and in all likelihood he is running XP or later, well then the odds he could pull off erasing the MFT without making it obvious the MFT was tampered with (remember willful destruction is a felony IIRC) are pretty much zip. It is always the MFT that gets them, especially since so few understand how the MFT works.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    6. Re:I hope not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is assuming that he didn't reformat his harddrive.

      I reformat my main linux drive every few months and reinstall to try out new configurations / distros / filesystems / etc.

      The master file table gets erased along with the rest of the system, and I can provide dozens of people who can show 5 years history for this habit of mine.

    7. Re:I hope not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the more reason to use heavy encryption. You know, like before you go around pissing people off.

      This is also why I use btrfs. Fsck that, bitches!

    8. Re:I hope not by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      This is assuming several things:

      First, that your'e running a filesystem they recognize at all. I'm sure they'd have had lots of fun with my Reiser4 FS when I was running that.

      Second, that you didn't nuke the entire partition. Delete the file, purge it, tar everything up that I care about and put it somewhere else, scrub the drive, reformat, untar.

      Third, that it was ever on that filesystem to begin with. Consider "rubberhose"-style encryption like Truecrypt.

      Personally, I wouldn't go this route at all, and I like the route he actually chose -- the trusted third party. This isn't a case where he's going to get away by nuking the files anyway, and he shouldn't have to.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    9. Re:I hope not by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Just use a flash drive and then a USB port wired with 48V instead of 5V to burn it out. Hand it over and they can't make it work all you can claim is that it's on the drive and if they can't make it work maybe they had an ESD accident.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    10. Re:I hope not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about just replacing the damm drive. Nothing says and nobody would know what drive you had in it at the time of the offense. If you installed Ubuntu 8.04 for instance which would be a little old and then set it up as read only there is clearly not going to be evidence of the offense. Now it would be very difficult if not impossible for someone to prove that the drive was replaced after the fact.

    11. Re:I hope not by hb79 · · Score: 0

      > The greatest trick the devil pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist -- Verbal Kint
      > Karma: Chameleon

      Great quote. Wrong attribution.

      http://google.com/search?q=Charles+Baudelaire+%22The+greatest+trick+the+devil+ever+pulled+was+convincing+the+world+he+didn't+exist.%22

      Bonus reference:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Usual_Suspects

      Meanwhile, Verbal walks away from the police station, dropping his feigned cerebral palsy. He gets into a waiting car driven by "Mr. Kobayashi", pulling away just as Kujan comes outside, searching in vain. The movie closes with Verbal reiterating his quote from Charles Baudelaire: "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."[2] This is followed by his earlier description of Keyser Söze: "And like that, he's gone."

  7. Just watch! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The third party will be a sub-division of Sony, so basically, the computers will end up in Sony's possession anyways.

    I told you so in 3... 2... 1...

    1. Re:Just watch! by King+InuYasha · · Score: 1

      The court wouldn't allow it. If the court has to, they will search for an independent third party that has absolutely nothing to do with the case if neither SCEA or Hotz can provide a sufficiently neutral third party to examine the systems.

    2. Re:Just watch! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have more faith in the justice system than I...

    3. Re:Just watch! by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      Judges don't like appeals overturning decisions. Allowing that would cause a solidly appealable decision that could vacate, maybe remand the case, on them. They're going to typically try their damnedest, if the defense counsel pitches a fit over a Sony division or affiliate, to make SURE that there's a truly neutral party in place for this.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  8. This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    http://www.bryceharperfacts.com

    bryceharperfacts.spreadshirt.com

  9. This is a disgrace of the justice. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I will not stand for more of this from the justice. I am going to pour petrol on my self and alight in protestation. I do not what a geoholt is but I stand for not this.

    By Bonney-
    Georgi A. Flamme.

  10. TrueCrypt is such a nice app by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ;-)

  11. God says... by Trivial+Solutions · · Score: -1

    God says...
    REMEDIES angered plentifully purchase swelling theatres
    disturbed injury judgeth favourites mutual went Could
    glories what withdrew crowned rest factito lashest loth
    thwart intimately powerful remaineth ibiblio Iowa blamed
    mindful deliberate unrulily delivered lick ensues diligence
    echoes transparent IMPLIED serving dispensest Light error
    wont lap watchings gnawed officer Justina bends showedst
    three busy deemed yet peril sublimity commiserate Fish
    tenderly hastened compare begged dotages rebellious apprehension
    teacheth distilled blessed teach breathed dared doer chastened
    pain estate fantastic if vanity marriageable heldest Augustine
    lines fitted certainty forethought these remainest member
    month caught wheat withered blessest always talented void
    augmenting imbue Exodus closing Teacher foamed roarest
    dates

    --
    When God goes to war, He drops big bangs.
  12. Very Nice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sony the company that robs it's customers by removing linux support and then sues them for trying to get it back.

    1. Re:Very Nice by Kenshin · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      If someone sells you something, and takes it back, that doesn't entitle you to break into their house *and* give a copy of the key to everyone on the street.

      Of course, he could have gotten away with breaking into their house if he'd just kept his mouth shut. Or gone anonymous. The problem is that he had to stand on his soapbox and declare to the world how cool he was that he'd broken in, and give them the tools to do so as well. He didn't do any damage himself, but he directly enabled tons of not-so-ethical hoodlums to go in and do plenty of damage.

      It doesn't matter what his motivation was. Basically, his ego fucked himself in this case.

       

      --

      Does it make you happy you're so strange?

    2. Re:Very Nice by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      it's more like making a screw driver to take the back off something you own, because Sony blew a fuse in your own kit and you need to change it to get it working properly again.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
  13. my dumb idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if you are getting into this kind of territory, how about you just post a message on your web page that states that between every 1 and 7 days you securely wipe/format your hard drive and then restore from a backup image. the only new content on the drive is small things like updated bookmark files. also state that you use fully encrypted partitions.

    explain that any hacking/homebrew stuff you may or may not have created is securely wiped from your drive upon successful compiling/uploading to the internet and that it only remains online now so you never keep local copies.

    now any time you are sued and asked to turn over your computer you have already established that the drive will have been wiped regardless of any lawsuit and that it is always encrypted.

    note: you don't actually have to wipe your drive every 1 to 7 days, but how would they prove otherwise once it was stated by you publicly before getting sued?

  14. What the hell is this? by corbettw · · Score: 0

    Thanks for summarizing what this case is, or at least linking to something that does. Not all of us pay rapt attention to every single lawsuit out there.

    --
    God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    1. Re:What the hell is this? by prichardson · · Score: 2

      Fortunately, someone compiled a list of relevant articles on the subject.

      http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sony+geohot+lawsuit

      --
      Help I'm a rock.
  15. truecrypt by megamike23 · · Score: 1

    he is a smart guy, I am sure anything important is truecrypted

    1. Re:truecrypt by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      he is a smart guy, I am sure anything important is truecrypted

      So what? A lot of smart guys (and gals) smoke, have risky sex, drive recklessly and perform a thousand other stupid activities because they're convinced that, whatever happens to other people who do such things, it won't happen to them.

      Most of us think we're untouchable. Until we get that lab result, hit that tree ... or receive that subpoena.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:truecrypt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what? A lot of smart guys (and gals) smoke, have risky sex ....

      Uhm, this is SLASHDOT we're talking about here, what's this SEX thing you're referring to?

  16. Sony Mylo 2 runs Linux, just you can't see it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You can see parts of the filesystem through the Netfront webbrowser on the Mylo 2 unit, yet it's just locked-down in such a way using User access restrictions that prevent you from migrating any kind of application onto the filesystem. Remember that there is no console to use it, yet it it is a Linux kernel just like the previous Sony Mylo 1 that came with Opera (embedded Linux version).

    Nobody tried at all to 'jailbreak' any of the Mylos because they were just expensive little dream computers that were twice as expensive and sandboxed as compared to a PSP or even a Zipit Z2. An awesome setup would be a Zipit Z2, because of it's USB host function allows USB Host capacity with any generic Linux distribution whereas it just blows everything else out of the water in terms of capacity to integrate more hardware on it's inexpensive 300MHz/32MBRAM/16MBFLASH($50) budget not including the MiniSD card you'ld build from.

    Feel sorry for someone that bought a Mylo 2 because it was a crippleware Nokia N*** without the cell network, but then with a Hughes system Satellite or a Siera Wireless Mobile Hotspot you can kiss the landlovers goodbye.

  17. I wish almost all cases were like this by davidwr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Personally, I wish all civil and almost all criminal cases operated on this principle.

    Any subpoenaed evidence or any evidence caught in a police raid that wasn't obviously relevant should be turned over to a neutral 3rd party for sifting, with only evidence relevant to the case turned over to the police or plaintiff.

    I would make two exceptions:
    1) Evidence of a future crime, but only for the purposes of stopping that crime. For prosecution purposes, the evidence would be treated as "tainted" and could not be used to prosecute unless it was admissible under some other rule like "inevitable discovery."
    2) Evidence of a past un-related crime or non-criminal civil offense where an identifiable victim needs victim-services or restitution, but with a similar stipulation as #1. The victim would be allowed to pursue civil actions and restraining orders using this evidence. One a lawsuit happens, a lot of information enters the public record and for particularly offensive acts, the information gets into newspapers. The criminal may be spared prison and an additional criminal record but he'll still have his reputation impacted.

    Yes, this will lead to injustices but my interpretation of "unreasonable search and seizure" means if the police think you are guilty of crime A, and but for the search related to crime A they would never have found out about crime B, then the criminal courts should be treated the same for crime B as if the search related to crime A never happened. BUT it's even more unjust to deny a victim the necessary services once you, the police or a neutral third party, know they are a victim.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:I wish almost all cases were like this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I agree that there should be some protection against cops using small crimes as excuses to search a person with the intent of looking for something unrelated I don't know if invalidating anything they stumble upon that isn't relevant to the case at hand is a good idea. Imagine this scenario:

      Person A invites Person B over to their house. A then stabs B to death on the couch. A the proceeds to call the police and anonymously report drug trafficking (Or some other wholly unrelated offence) at their house. The cops show up looking for evidence of trafficking (or whatever) and see the body with the bloody knife. Now the best evidence for that murder is invalidated. If you can't bring up the fact that the body and murder weapon were in Person A's house and that there was blood slattered everywhere and signs of a struggle and whatnot, what would you use as evidence?

  18. While we always thought lawyers were wordsmiths... by D4C5CE · · Score: 1
    ...some come up with sentences like this:

    He won't get that back until the end of the litigation, should he prevail, which this court at least currently thinks is less likely than that Sony will.

    Not all that is cumbersome qualifies as Legalese.

  19. Ouch, my brain! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...which this court at least currently thinks is less likely than that Sony will"

  20. Respect to hotz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope hotz uses an alias from now on. The trouble that he's in because he wanted his name nailed on history just isn't worth it. His hacks had legitimate uses ,but even the best defense team would still lose against Sony's. The corporation will undoubtedly win against the individual. Sony is sending it's sharks on anyone and everyone involved, till they are bankrupted and penetrated by a 20 foot pole.

    Respect to hotz, i wish him the best.

  21. Lots of companies to boycott then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    This is one battle in an Asian war on the USA's "exhaustion doctrine", which states that unless you lease product, you lose rights under trademark to the object once you have sold it. Asia courts (Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China) are largely granting big companies "EULA" type rights and exclusions on hardware, and the LG vs. Wistron, Fuji vs. Jazz, Dell vs. Tiger Direct cases - all killed in the USA courts - are succeeding outside of the USA. http://tinyurl.com/exhaustp

    "...trademark rights are exhausted when a trademarked product lawfully enters the market. The trademark holder then normally can no longer act against resale of the trademarked product." - Ius Mentis

  22. Yeah, right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Neutral, my a$$.

  23. What's the worst that can happen..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If hotz is found guilty in the civil suit, how much bread will he have to cough up ?

  24. So what's your favorite Tissue Paper? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For sneezes, for lavatory, for counters?

    Always blowing your load through the double layer, or are little speckles getting stuck in the wrinkles of your business end?

    `Don't worry, be happy'

  25. WTF? by russotto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Defendant Hotz is required to deliver his computers, hard drives, CD-roms, DVDs, USB sticks, and any other storage devices on which any Circumvention Devices are stored

    Wait a minute here... surely there's a question of whether or not there ARE any "Circumvention Devices", that being a term defined by 17 USC 1201. By requiring Hotz to turn over "Circumvention Devices" the judge is requiring him to either
    a) Concede the point here and now OR
    b) Risk contempt of court charges for not turning them over.

    IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the $10,000.00 posted by SCEA on January 27, 2011 as security for the Court's issuance of the Temporary Restraining Order shall suffice 3 for this Preliminary Injunction.

    I didn't realize purchasing a preliminary injunction was so cheap.

    I see the "Honorable" Susan Illston is still giving us a demonstration of what "due process" looks like nowadays; first issue a broad ex parte injunction, THEN hold a hearing, then ratify the original injunction with only minor changes, requiring the defendant to cede the case to comply. No opinion was published, so apparently we're not going to get to see her "reasoning" in this case.

    1. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Circumvention Devices aren't illegal. Following this order would not be the same as admitting guilt. These circumvention devices could prove his innocence, actually, by showing he was using them to simply re-enable lost functionality (i.e. OtherOS) and not to allow pirated games from being played.

  26. Analogy Doesn't Matter by Kenshin · · Score: 0

    The analogy doesn't matter. His motivation doesn't matter either. (I'm actually *for* hacking your own hardware.) The guy could have avoided all this trouble if he'd either kept it to himself or his close circle of friends, or went the anonymous route.

    Instead, he chose to show off and tell the whole world "LOOK WHAT I DID!"

    He knew exactly who he was messing with, but decided to go full retard anyway.

    --

    Does it make you happy you're so strange?

    1. Re:Analogy Doesn't Matter by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      I thought he just implemented a hack someone else had already come up with..

      I just worked out how to put a different engine in my car, better not post of the internet or GM may come after me.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
  27. truecrypt? by justforgetme · · Score: 1

    truecrypt?
    like in http://www.truecrypt.org/ ?

    in that case I'm not so sure about how smart he is...

    --
    -- no sig today
    1. Re:truecrypt? by justforgetme · · Score: 1

      ok, above post may be a bit rough... So I better clarify.

      truecrypt has some skeptics out there, see:

      http://superuser.com/questions/164162/is-truecrypt-truly-safe

      --
      -- no sig today
  28. Another Analogy by Kenshin · · Score: 1

    If a mother bear knocks over your garbage can, you don't go into the woods alone and steal its cub.

    --

    Does it make you happy you're so strange?

  29. Car Analogy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Judge: Mr. Hotz, is that true that you cracked the PS3 security scheme?
    Hotz: Yassuh!
    J: Why did you do that?
    H: I purchased a PS3 long time ago, happy with the fact that Sony made a gaming consolle which was able to run Linux. And I love to play with Linux and try some stuff I write myself. So, since the PS3 was so powerful and.. I could run Linux on it, I decided to buy it. Then something happened. Sony removed the feature with a firmware update. Yes, I had to accept the EULA, but without the firmware update I could not play games on-line anymore! And Sony told me that it was for "security purposes". Security purposes my ass, Honour. I'll make a car analogy here.. Let's say you buy a brand new Mercedes, a station wagon. Then you bring it to your mechanic, after a couple of years, for the routine check. And when you take your car back, it is not a station wagon anymore. You can only have one passenger other than yourself. And your mechanic tells you that it was for "your security". What would you say, then?
    J: Ahem... What about the Sony lawyers that were sitting there a couple of seconds ago?

    M

  30. Builds a pretty strong case... by AlienIntelligence · · Score: 1

    This builds a pretty strong case to have a EC2 account
    and just keep a "small" linux vm running. Have it cron'd
    to kill itself every 12-24 hrs. Kinda like, this tape will
    self-destruct.

    Then use that vm to access ur ENCRYPTED info on
    another cloud.

    Even if they did compel u to turn over the account, all
    they would have is a dead process. And even if that
    process was resurrected, it would just have net access.
    And only a sloppy idiot would leave a trace of ur cloud
    storage access.

    When they take ur boxen... nothing but Chrome installed
    on there. Chrome history... Amazon.

    -AI
    "Head is in the Cloud"

    --
    For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion
  31. Judicial abuse by cypherdtraitor · · Score: 2

    I would love to see him countersue for slander, and ask for all of sony's legal department computers so that he could search through their emails. When the judge says no, he'll have a great case for appeal.

    1. Re:Judicial abuse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Legal Department? Great case for appeal?

      He'll have a great case for his lawyer being incompetent, or him being insane enough to take your advice. Privilege is protected heavily, he'd have to have a smoking gun, finger prints AND a dead body before a judge would break it.

  32. How to avoid confiscation of your hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If he had worked only with, say, an external drive (to save his temporary work) and checked everything back into some free, online SVN (e.g. Google Code), could he have theoretically avoided having to give up all the hardware they are asking for? Are they simply asking for all hardware whatsoever? Or just the ones that contain the related files? If it's the latter, then all he would have to turn in is his external HDD, and attach a link to Google Code.