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Drupal 8 Development Begins — 15 Bugs At a Time
darthcamaro writes "It took nearly 3 years for the open source Drupal 7 content management system to hit general availability. The plan for pushing out Drupal 8 is to be faster. How are they going to do that? '"At no point in time will there be more than 15 critical bugs," Dries Buytaert, founder of Drupal said. "I will not pull in a big change if we know there are known bugs. This gives us the ability to do timely releases because we know at most the release is only 15 critical bugs away from being ready."'"
Good luck getting it down to 15...
why don't microsoft decide that there are only 15 critical bugs left in windows 8 and release it next week?
Let there be no critical bugs. That was easy!
Two bad side effects may be:
- Less merging (which will slow progress)
- More critical bugs triaged as non-critical to avoid blocking releases.
I like the Chrome team's ideas to have multiple branches, only do merges in one direction (towards more stable branches), and making features easily removable so they can be nuked if they are not stable enough to make a release. I'm not sure of a clean way to do the easy code disabling with PHP.
http://goo.gl/G2uDn
In general, though, more merging is better than less merging. It will be interesting to see how this pans out for Drupal.
They're calling 7.1, 8.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Because I always know about all of my bugs and keep track of them while I'm programming. In fact I sometimes even plan them ahead of time.
If I didn't see another Drupal story for the rest of the year, that would make me very happy.
Don't worry. We will soon resume the normal Apple & Google schedule. Can't have enough of those though!
This was like when they said that once there were no more critical bugs 6 and then 7 would be released. Which is what happened. They moved the level down to major and voila! No more critical bugs.
Now, a few days after 7 was released, 7 criticals appeared. 2 were new. The others? Just old bugs that could be bumped up again.
No one needs more than 15 critical bugs.
rewriting history since 2109
This is the 5th drupal psuedo-story in the duration of a month ?
REALLY ?
And on EVERY ONE OF THEM, unity100 whines about it and slips in more links to his pet framework that nobody uses.
And this is the fifth time you whined about it.
Shaddup already and move on with your life.
I find that differentiation between 'bugs' and 'known bugs' scary (to say the least).
Does he mean that there will be no more than 15 critical bugs (whether known or unknown)? Or, does he mean that all bugs are always known (and that when the 15 errors mark is reached, one simply has to stop writing new code to keep on that mark -since undetected bugs don't exist-?)
In any case, it is very naïve. Naïve and frightening.
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This is why most software sucks. The new features are more important than bug free code. I'm not sure if this Drupal guy is joking or not but I now know to avoid it for my next project.
Oh, come on, guys, give them a break. I watched Dries' keynote address streamed online in which he made this declaration. The point is it's a standard, a declaration of intent. He essentially expressed regret at the unexpected quagmire of the 3-year dev cycle for v7 that was caused by accepting component builds with a sum total of hundreds of *known* bugs. So, now, the aspiration and protocol is to not accept new builds of core pieces if they can find more than 15 total bugs among them. How is that any different or worse than any other policy statement. They're not saying they will cure a different genetic disorder with each new build. And I guess the assumption can be that they are prioritizing the stability level of the status quo build over new bells, whistles, or expansion. I'm as frustrated as anyone about the many challenges a developer faces getting all the parts of a f*ing Drupal site to all work at once and reliably, but version 7 leaves a lot of the chaos behind it, and the 15-bug rule for version 8 is an applaudable new policy to continue in this more modern and stable direction.
This is just a tweak in Drupal's lifecycle model with the aim to be more agile. It means that new features will be available sooner for novice users. For Drupal pros there will be no change because they install their favorite collection of modules anyway.
On se Internetz nobody noes your German.
And yet your framework is still irrelevant.
Look at who started using Drupal in the last year or two: The Economist, The Grammys, Fast Company, The Examiner, House.gov (and all ~535 house websites) recently moved to Drupal, Energy.gov, WhiteHouse.gov, and here's a list of some 120 national governments using Drupal.
But hey, Drupal only has 2% market share of all sites on the web, is being adopted by government and corporate organizations at a maddening pace, and just had their first major release in 3 years. There's no reason why this Drupal shit should be discussed on Slashdot.
sysadmins and parents of newborns get the same amount of sleep.
How prevalent are Drupal, Joomla, etc. in web dev sector?
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
Open sauce, only 15 critical bugs!
And there are already fifteen being worked on, all that this means is that I need to wait until one of them is fixed to report it? (No, of course not, but seriously, the thing about many regressions is that they somehow fall outside the functionality covered by unit tests, and aren't noticed in patch review.)
Though I appreciate that the development process will involve closer attention to regressions and unit test failures known at the time of the commit.
Yeah why would they want to cover a framework that is widely used, insanely great and of interest to a lot of people?
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
I think that I'll stop there :/ But I believe that all these issues are symptomatic of an inefficiency and backslap-happy community complacency that has crept into Drupal thanks to its recent success. The people behind Drupal seem to be busy chasing the almighty dollar and losing sight of what made the project interesting in the first place.
Back when I was in university, I got in the habit of writing programs by building a framework, then adding only the code needed by a single block at a time, testing the block, debugging if required, then move on to the next block. I remember helping another student debug a cobol program. She had written the entire thing as more than 300 lines of code, and it didn't do what she wanted. By the time she called me over, I had handed my program in 3 days earlier, there was one day left till deadline, she was very upset and looked like she had been staring at the program for more than a few hours. I added a gob of breakpoints (print statements) to divide/conquer the thing and find where things were breaking. In about 10 minutes I had pulled out at least 6 bugs. Things started to work. About 10 minutes later, she was starting to get (incorrect) output. Another few minutes, she was pulling out her own bugs. I left her with semi-correct output (I wasn't about to debug the whole thing for her, I only wanted to get her on her way and get on my own way). You can build monolithic and then start the almighty job of fixing if you want, but its more fun to only have one thing to look at at a time. 15 bugs at any time sounds like a recipe for success.
If Dries were to promise that Drupal 8 will be faster and leaner than Drupal 6 and 7 then I'm sure a lot of people would pitch in to get it out the door earlier.
If there are 15 critical bugs already and somebody finds a new bug in the existing code what happens then? Do they stop accepting bug reports?
phpBB?
Wordpress?
Both widely used, and I'm sure you can find plenty of people (using google) who think that they're insanely great (and also believe that they're frameworks). /. doesn't cover them as often though.
For some reason,
actually, if you are treating the small codebase i wrote as a 'framework', it shows the degree of drupal foolery.
what i coded is just an easy codebase. some of you fools are the ones dubbing it 'framework'. but hey, thanks.
Read radical news here
The definition of framework has nothing to do with the size or difficulty of the codebase. From what I can tell from the project's website, it fits the definition.
Drupal, on the other hand, is a CMS which includes a framework (for the modules/plugins).
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I've used this and word press both suck.
That framework you're constantly advertising ... dear god, it's the most terrible abuse of singletons I've ever seen in my life. Please, for the love of all that is holy, learn design principles.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
>a legit way to do things like this
If you post your question(s) to Drupal.org forum, you'll get a good answer, usually very soon.
Good and pleasant community support is a hallmark of the Drupal community.